First Gay NFL player drafted by the Rams

Hypothetical scenarios are rhetorical and yours in particular lacked any reasoning whatsoever. I didn't even read past the first few words when I got the gist of what you are saying, seriously you need to take a good look at yourself and realize you are way way off base and when you resort to hypotheticals you've lost your ability to reason. Giving people the how would you handle this situation as evidence of your argument is just not smart, think about it.

@robokill: it wasn't evidence of my argument either when did I say it was evidence of my argument? It was just a scenario I thought up based on the news clip, and I wanted to see how OT would handle it. Again your putting words in my mouth. So now I'm not aloud to talk in hypotheticals.

If we can agree on one thing one fact that kids copy what they see on the telly, that's fact, it's one of the reason why we have age restrictions on tv programmes, games, movies.

Now if we can agree on that then we can also agree that a young boy seeing that news clip, could potentially copy that behaviour, he could go to kindergarten the next day and chase boys around trying to hug and kiss them, the other boys may not appreciate that even though he might just be playing, they might not want to play like that and they might lash out at him and hurt him, which would not be very pleasant.

Now that is how the news clip might be a bad influence, if you still disagree with that then your just being argumentative.

Also you claim to know how being gay works, so how is it that someone becomes gay?

@robokill: Some adults pose a threat to children too, but we don't separate adults from children with regards to these things.

This thread is getting really confusing for me. We have people saying that we shouldn't allow people of the same gender to kiss on tv because kids will copy it (if that's a concern your child shouldn't watch any tv; there's a lot worse stuff being broadcast). Also, your kid will be hit by a girl just the same if he tries to forcibly kiss her, ending up in the same situation. Let's ban kissing on TV altogether =P

Then we have people saying we should divide bathrooms by sexual preference instead of gender, wth? Do you guys have any idea how many bathrooms a coffee store would need?

You don't learn to be gay. And if it does encourage children to explore their own sexuality, so what? that's a perfectly healthy thing to do.

@korvus: yeh there is a lot worse stuff being broadcast and children shouldn't be watching it which is why we have parental control and age restrictions, and I think two grown men kissing and cuddling would not fall into the category of being suitable for young children especially boys, plus it is not something you expect to see on the news. So in that sense I can see Wards point. It's true what you say about the same thing happening with boy trying to kiss a girl, but still it's some how different, a boy kissing a girl is normal, yeah I said it normal.

So you don't agree with the fact that kids do copy what they see?

@ariabed: I agree they have the tendency to, yes, but ultimately it's up to you to teach them your values instead of letting the TV do that. That being said, I never let any of my young nephews or nieces watch tv in my house and I don't plan on letting my young kids (if I have them) do either...well, I don't even own a tv anymore so that problem took care of itself =P

But even if you think that what they see on tv makes up to the majority of their actions you shouldn't be worried...there's a whole lot more of heterosexual kissing going on TV than otherwise. By your own definition, your kid should be heterosexual because tv said so.

And yes, children will have questions about homosexuality because they've seen 2 guys kissing, or 2 girls getting married...unless you keep your kid locked inside the house at all times he's going to be curious and he'll want an answer. It's up to you how you answer. I don't see any problem with that and I'll be proud of my kid for choosing his own sexual orientation without any sort of discrimination (at least from me and my wife), instead of telling him that "being a ****** is wrong" (not saying this is your view, it's an example) and then if he turns out to be gay he'll think he needs to hide it.

But that's me; you're free to teach your kid according to your own moral code, and I wouldn't be afraid of what he watches on tv undoing what you teach him; if you're a halfway decent parent your teachings will mean more to your kid than what random people on TV do.

Thats dangerous advice. Child abuse is illegal for a reason.

@toast_burner: It wasn't an advice. You go and try to prevent parents from teaching their kids whatever the hell they want. I think bad parenting is half the reason we live in an intolerant, selfish, and self-important world.

So you blame bad parenting for many of the worlds problems yet support bad parenting?

@toast_burner: "You're free to" doesn't mean "I encourage you to". I just can't do anything about it =P It would also be hypocritical of me to defend people's right to lead their lives as they see fit (in this case being gay and kiss in public) but then say that parents don't have the right to raise their children the way they think is correct.

It's not really hypocritical as they are two different subjects. Having the right to some things doesn't mean you should have the right to everything. It's not hypocritical to say you should have freedom of speech but not the freedom to start bar fights.

@toast_burner: You've got a point, but how do you propose to regulate what a parent can and can't say to their child? How would you enforce it and maybe more importantly who should decide what is or isn't allowed to be taught?

You can't outside of extreme cases e.g. locking you're child in the basement and teaching him that he lives on the moon and everyone on the outside world are evil moon mutants.

@toast_burner: Hence my "you're free to...". With it I meant that everyone has a sense of "right and wrong" (even though it's not the same for everyone) and any good parent tries to pass that along to their children (because in their mind, every loving parent thinks they're right and helping their children with the morality they're trying to pass on). I didn't mean "you're free to lock your child in the basement and have sex with him". Maybe I should have been more clearer =)

well good for him.

also, drafted by the rams.

lulz.

But the person locking up their child may be doing it because they think it's what's for the best for the child.

Homophobic parents are a worrying thing. Usually if a person has parents like that they wait until they are free from their parents until they come out. But if the parents do find out while the child lives with them, it puts the child in a dangerous situation. Problem is that their is no way to know if a parent will abuse they're child until they do making it very hard to prevent.

@toast_burner: Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding if you're agreeing with me, disagreeing, not getting my point...

I'm saying people do what they think it's best, I'm not saying that they do the right thing OR encouraging them to do things I consider wrong.

My parents were racists and homophobes...I grew up thinking all black people were thieves and rapists and that gay people were diseased and I should stay away from them "just in case". Obviously eventually I had contact (and befriended) both black people and gay people and I kept my wallet, didn't get raped and didn't "catch gay" so I came to my own conclusions.

Now, were my parents right with the "values" they imparted? Absolutely not. Will I teach my kids what my parents taught me? Hell no. Did they think they were giving me valuable advice? Probably. Was there any way anyone short of social services (and they probably should have stepped in at a point) that could have prevented me from growing up racist and homophobe until I realized I was wrong? I think not.

@thegerg: @korvus: fair enough I get what your saying, thanks for not getting shitty with me and discussing this like an adult.

My view is if the subject ever came up I would teach my boy that boys kiss girls boys shouldn't kiss boys, but I would also teach him not to disrespect other people for their way of life, as long as they're not hurting anyone let them live their lives without ridicule.

If my boy turned out gay I would still love him, I might not be happy about it but I would still love him all the same.

@thegerg; your ignorant, you say a male kissing a male is normal, if it was normal then the media people on twitter etc wouldn't have a bad thing to say about it, if being gay was normal then this whole "first gay player in NFL" story wouldn't have made the news at all because there would already be a bunch of gay players in the NFL, normal things don't get noticed.

@ariabed: There's no reason to be shitty with you. You're merely preventing your point of view and I'm presenting mine. If for some reason I felt that I couldn't resist but to insult you I would merely step away from the conversation before that happened since it would not be a conversation worth having anymore =)

You're confusing normal with common.

@toast_burner: normal and common aren't they basically the same thing? I mean the word common features in the definition of normal. Not being funny

I disagree with this statement. You can accept something without promoting it. I don't promote that lifestyle for reasons of my own, however, I can accept the fact that they're gay and choose how they live their own life.

If homosexuality isn't a choice, then a boy seeing two boys kissing shouldn't have anything to do with what ariabed is saying. When I see two dudes making out it's gross to me. Had I seen that as a kid, it still would've been gross. I think it's ridiculous to assume that kids are just copycats and mimic everything they see on TV. Attraction to gender is something I believe you're born with.

@jasean79: Not trying to open another can of worms here but why (if you can put it into words) is it gross to see 2 men kiss? I mean, I wouldn't want to do it but to me it looks just as natural/uninteresting as seeing a guy and a girl kiss.

I guess it depends partly on your upbringing and the time period in which you grew up. I was raised Catholic and while I'm not exactly a devout Christian these days, I think some moral teachings stayed with me through the years. Now, I'm not bible-thumping saying homosexuality is against the Bible, blah, blah...don't get my message wrong. I think those people are a little extreme with their beliefs.

For me, it's just natural to see a man and woman together. I don't get that same feeling when seeing two gays together, no matter how much exposure I have to it. And again, maybe it's because of my Christian upbringing. But it just doesn't feel natural to me.

And as far as the act of seeing 2 guys kissing, it's kind of like seeing someone eat casu marzu. I'm sure it's tasty to those that can appreciate it, but the thought of eating that just grosses me out. This was a more humorous approach to the topic - but a pretty good example of how it makes me feel :D

@thegerg: "If homosexuality isn't a choice, then a boy seeing two boys kissing shouldn't have anything to do with what ariabed is saying."

How so?

Meaning - if your a boy born with the "gene" that you're going to be attracted to a woman, then seeing 2 guys kiss on TV at a young age is not going to make that boy say, "Hey that looks neat, I wanna try that". I don't think people are bi-curious automatically because they were witness to something on television. That's ridiculous. Almost ridiculous as the argument that kids will mimic in real life everything that they do in video games.

@jasean79: Like I said a few posts above I was raised in a racist and homophobe environment (in a Catholic family as well, but hadn't mentioned that) and I was born in '85 (not trying to make a point, just giving you info).

I get what you're saying about it being normal to see a man and a woman together, me being a married guy who loves his wife. But the feeling I get when I see someone kiss is not due to their gender, but due to their love, and I know homosexual people are capable of loving in the same measure as hetero couples, so both cases give me a "Aw, isn't love great?" feeling.

Hmmm, gay kissing and maggot cheese being compared...that's a first =P But I believe you still haven't fully answered my question. I understand that your religion and upbringing say that "the normal way" is a man and a woman, but why does two men or two women gross you out? There's a lot of stuff that I don't agree with but that don't cause a "physical" reaction in me, I just disagree with it and feel nothing. Why do you think the aversion is so strong for you?

Also, thank you for answering my question =)

@korvus:

I don't know why the feeling of seeing it has a strong reaction in me. It just grosses me out. Maybe I'm not the norm here, but it's always been that way. I feel like we're in a society now that we're "forced" to feel a certain way when exposed to these things, otherwise we're labeled as homophobic. I don't have a phobia in respect to their life choices, why would I? I just prefer not to be around it. I believe that's just as much my right as it is theirs to do what they want in their personal lives.

This coming from the person that's not even sure that people are born with what gender they're attracted to.

@jasean79: That's fine, I wasn't trying to speak out against you =) I was merely curious on why someone felt something I didn't quite understand. You are of course free of feeling the way you do.

Thank you for the clarification.

@thegerg:

So based on your logic, people develop attraction for same sex thru what - exposure to it early in life, as on TV? In person?

I'm having a hard time understanding your take on this.

@jasean79: @thegerg: I will continue with you as you are being civilised. I'm not saying kids are copy cats but they can be easily influenced by what they see, which I will say a again is why we have age restrictions on tv programmes games and films,I don't know why you guys find this so hard to understand, your just going against me for the sake of argument, if a young kid watches a violent show he MAY go off and try recreate what he has seen on the show that's why violent shows are not for young children, it's not rocket science. Young children often learn by things they see aswell as what they're taught, and like someone else said kids aren't born with sexuality I guess sexuality is something they learn or it comes naturally, Now I don't know what makes someone gay, does anyone actually know?

To answer your question thegerg natural is male and female coming together forming a relationship and procreating sn't that the natural way of all life.

So much ignorance so little time.

@toast_burner: why you saying I'm ignorant you point out what I've siad that is so wrong and blind to the truth.

The thing about homosexuality being unnatural is an incredibly old outdated belief. We're in the 21st century now. nobody should be saying silly things like that.

@thegerg: well you said we should be promoting homosexuality as much as heterosexuality I don't agree with that. It's like that song "I kissed a girl" Katy Perry, a terrible song I wouldn't want my Young impressionable daughter listening to that, You may think I'm being stupid but I'm just trying to protect the kiddies that's all, and not put controversial ideas and influences in their lives b4 they even understand what life's about.

IMO being gay is an anomaly.

@toast_burner: I only mean that two men cannot naturally have children or two women.

For some reason two men kissing just looks wrong even most women think that. Two women kissing doesn't look so bad though,