FCC to propose reclassifying ISPs as a public utility

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chessmaster1989

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#1 chessmaster1989
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The Federal Communications Commission is about to fundamentally change the way it oversees high-speed Internet service, proposing to regulate it as a public utility.

Chairman Tom Wheeler is reaching for a significant expansion of the agency’s authority to regulate broadband providers, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

The move would fully embrace the principle known as net neutrality, and if enacted, would bring a new definition to the economics of the Internet industry: Rather than regulating broadband firms lightly, as has been its practice so far, the FCC would treat them like telecommunications companies and subject them to more intrusive regulation, especially in areas relating to how they manage traffic on their networks.

A central element would be a ban on broadband providers blocking, slowing down or speeding up specific websites in exchange for payment, these people say. Supporters of the FCC’s position say allowing some websites to pay for faster access to consumers would put startups and smaller companies at a disadvantage.

The proposal, expected to be unveiled by the FCC on Thursday, is a victory for a host of Silicon Valley firms and liberal activists who have championed it. Many of these companies lobbied the White House seeking such an outcome, and were rewarded in November when President Barack Obama announced his support for “the strongest possible” rules for net neutrality, the principle that all Internet traffic should be treated equally.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fcc-to-propose-strong-net-neutrality-rules-1422911055

Zero sympathy for the cable companies here

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HoolaHoopMan

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#2 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

I approve. Expect a huge fight on this.

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LostProphetFLCL

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#3 LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts

About damn time!

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Drunk_PI

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#4 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

Am I the only one here who's mixed on this issue?

On one hand, yes, net neutrality guarantees equal access but giving control to the US government? Sounds bad. Sounds really bad.

Everyone complains about corporations getting ultimate control but they're still suspect to regulations, competition, and US law. Can't say I'm in support of this but who knows, maybe it'll work out fine.

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chessmaster1989

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#5 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
@drunk_pi said:

Am I the only one here who's mixed on this issue?

On one hand, yes, net neutrality guarantees equal access but giving control to the US government? Sounds bad. Sounds really bad.

Everyone complains about corporations getting ultimate control but they're still suspect to regulations, competition, and US law. Can't say I'm in support of this but who knows, maybe it'll work out fine.

To be clear, it's not that the government is taking over the ISPs, it's just reclassifying them to allow for tighter regulation.

And really, one of the biggest problems with ISPs as is is it's a very uncompetitive market (I know where I live, Comcast is the only provider).

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XaosII

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#6  Edited By XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

@drunk_pi said:

On one hand, yes, net neutrality guarantees equal access but giving control to the US government? Sounds bad. Sounds really bad.

What, specifically, does this give the US government control over ISPs?

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mattbbpl

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#7 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23032 Posts

I would have preferred for this to not have been necessary, but it was looking more and more like it was necessary.

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Drunk_PI

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#8 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@chessmaster1989:

In that case, wouldn't tighter regulation continue to restrict competition thus leading to higher prices?

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MakeMeaSammitch

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#9 MakeMeaSammitch
Member since 2012 • 4889 Posts

Is this a good thing?

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mattbbpl

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#10 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23032 Posts

@drunk_pi said:

@chessmaster1989:

In that case, wouldn't tighter regulation continue to restrict competition thus leading to higher prices?

Tighter regulation doesn't necessarily restrict competition or lead to higher prices.

It does lead to higher costs which, in a competitive market, can lead to higher prices, but if the market is already uncompetitive than the point is moot - particularly if the regulation is designed to counteract monopolistic affects.

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#11 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

It's not a problem in Canada, but this is almost mandatory at this point in the US.

@MakeMeaSammitch said:

Is this a good thing?

It would prevent ISP's being able to throttle the service down to customers and slow traffic to websites who don't pay the "fee".

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PimpHand_Gamer

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#12 PimpHand_Gamer
Member since 2014 • 3048 Posts

Because only something good can happen out of this right? ...It only makes perfect sense and we are guaranteed a win. How natural for the media to spin only the most positive light on the subject since Obama gave them the wink and nod.

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#13  Edited By thehig1
Member since 2014 • 7537 Posts

When I read the title I Immediately got this song stuck in my head, skip to 1:24

Loading Video...

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Gaming-Planet

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#14 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts
Loading Video...

Not my vid but TOP KEK.

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XaosII

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#15 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

@drunk_pi said:

@chessmaster1989:

In that case, wouldn't tighter regulation continue to restrict competition thus leading to higher prices?

Quite the opposite. Title II also means that ISPs now have easier access to utility pole lines for power and communication. Its one of the main reasons why it difficult for a new ISP to start up because a bigger ISP can deny a smaller ISP usage of a utility pole for wiring and power. Its a lot cheaper to use existing poles than it is for them to dig.

Its one of the main reason that is slowing down Google's fiber rollout in different cities.

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comp_atkins

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#16 comp_atkins  Online
Member since 2005 • 38677 Posts

does it also cover wireless data? that will be criticially important going forward

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Toxic-Seahorse

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#17  Edited By Toxic-Seahorse
Member since 2012 • 5074 Posts

@drunk_pi said:

Am I the only one here who's mixed on this issue?

On one hand, yes, net neutrality guarantees equal access but giving control to the US government? Sounds bad. Sounds really bad.

Everyone complains about corporations getting ultimate control but they're still suspect to regulations, competition, and US law. Can't say I'm in support of this but who knows, maybe it'll work out fine.

I don't quite understand your point. Worst case scenario is if government oversight is lax and the ISP's do what they were going to do without the government oversight anyways. It's not like the government would be in control of the companies, they'll just make sure they don't screw people over too much (in theory). The market is already noncompetitive so this can only be a good thing.

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ferrari2001

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#18 ferrari2001
Member since 2008 • 17772 Posts

Good, ISP's don't own the internet like they believe they do. Everyone should have equal access to everything on the internet. Enough of this throttling crap.

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Serraph105

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#19 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

For those feeling sorry for ISP's keep in mind that it was Verizon who defeated Net Neutrality in it's current form in the first place.

And no the government will not "be in control of the internet." This will simply allow the government to keep ISPs from doing things like throttling Netflix.

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Serraph105

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#20  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

@pimphand_gamer said:

Because only something good can happen out of this right? ...It only makes perfect sense and we are guaranteed a win. How natural for the media to spin only the most positive light on the subject since Obama gave them the wink and nod.

Given that most media is now brought to people with some form of the internet they would be/should be for net neutrality so ISP's don't decide to intentionally hinder their access to the public.

I'm curious though what possible negative outcomes you see from this turn of events?

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GazaAli

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#21  Edited By GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

This sounds great. Frankly I'm surprised that it seems to be actually happening as I'd have expected ISPs to lobby (bribe) their way out of this. While the matter doesn't affect me directly as a non-American I suspect it will reflect on the internet at large seeing how a great bulk of the web contents originates from the U.S. What's more is that I wonder how this will affect piracy now.

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XaosII

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#22 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

@GazaAli said:

This sounds great. Frankly I'm surprised that it seems to be actually happening as I'd have expected ISPs to lobby (bribe) their way out of this. While the matter doesn't affect me directly as a non-American I suspect it will reflect on the internet at large seeing how a great bulk of the web contents originates from the U.S. What's more is that I wonder how this will affect piracy now.

Nope, its still the case. Once Google and lots of tech-startup investors got involved, they poured in a lot more money than the ISPs did into lobbying. Frankly, its still a case of legalized bribes.... They just happened to fit in line with the general population.

This should have almost zero effect on piracy since Net Neutrality is quite clear that its only meant to be indiscriminate towards *legally permitted* traffic. With or without Net neutrality, our ISPs can already throttle pirated data streams. With Net Neutrality, however, what they can't do is throttle *all* peer-to-peer traffic regardless of its legality, like some ISPs were doing.

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#23 GazaAli
Member since 2007 • 25216 Posts

@XaosII said:

@GazaAli said:

This sounds great. Frankly I'm surprised that it seems to be actually happening as I'd have expected ISPs to lobby (bribe) their way out of this. While the matter doesn't affect me directly as a non-American I suspect it will reflect on the internet at large seeing how a great bulk of the web contents originates from the U.S. What's more is that I wonder how this will affect piracy now.

Nope, its still the case. Once Google and lots of tech-startup investors got involved, they poured in a lot more money than the ISPs did into lobbying. Frankly, its still a case of legalized bribes.... They just happened to fit in line with the general population.

This should have almost zero effect on piracy since Net Neutrality is quite clear that its only meant to be indiscriminate towards *legally permitted* traffic. With or without Net neutrality, our ISPs can already throttle pirated data streams. With Net Neutrality, however, what they can't do is throttle *all* peer-to-peer traffic regardless of its legality, like some ISPs were doing.

When you put it this way it makes sense yes. I originally assumed that ISPs are affluent enough to succeed in their lobbying but if they were against the likes of Google then yes I can see them being defeated in such a battle. I guess this is one of those few cases where the interests of the public and those of the corporate world, or a segment of it at least, coincide. As for piracy, while what you're saying is entirely sensible I still think it may affect those "pseudo-illegal" data streams which are contents that aren't by definition necessarily illegal but ISPs just throttle their data streams because someone leverages them to do so for God knows why which kind of agrees with what you said already about P2P traffic. My guess is that enforcing Net Neutrality and the consequent stricter regulations and more openness might result in more transparency in what constitutes illegal in the first place.

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JimB

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#24 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

Anytime the government gets involved in anything it turns to crap. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#25  Edited By deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

@drunk_pi said:

In that case, wouldn't tighter regulation continue to restrict competition thus leading to higher prices?

What sort of competition do you think there is in the broadband market? Everything is controlled by TWC, Verizon, Comcast, and a few other large ISPs.

If the FCC was allowed to regulate the market that would open up competition from other smaller ISPs that are much faster.

For instance, the FCC is also ruling on this.

One uniform regulation on this is MUCH better for Americans than each state fucking around with it.

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horgen

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#26  Edited By horgen
Member since 2006 • 127503 Posts

Given the attacks and changes/removing of net neutrality I think this is a good thing.

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Serraph105

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#27  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

@JimB: Again I ask what sort of negative impact do you think that this will have?

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comp_atkins

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#28 comp_atkins  Online
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@JimB said:

Anytime the government gets involved in anything it turns to crap. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

the road to hell is always paved with one thing

money

in this case broadband providers seeking more revenue via pay for quality schemes for data on their networks. don't want to pay ( or do not have the means ) ? **** you then, your traffic goes on the shit path while your competitors' gets priority.

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#29 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts
@drunk_pi said:

@chessmaster1989:

In that case, wouldn't tighter regulation continue to restrict competition thus leading to higher prices?

Not necessarily. Look up anti-trust laws.

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#30 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

@comp_atkins: All I am saying when the government gets involved it turns to crap. If you can't afford something that is your problem. Up until four years ago I used a 56.6 K modem.

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Serraph105

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#31 Serraph105
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@JimB said:

@comp_atkins: All I am saying when the government gets involved it turns to crap. If you can't afford something that is your problem. Up until four years ago I used a 56.6 K modem.

I asked for specifics on how this might turn bad, but you just keep saying it will be bad because government is bad. That's not a real argument, just a mantra with nothing to back it up.

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XaosII

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#32 XaosII
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@JimB said:

@comp_atkins: All I am saying when the government gets involved it turns to crap. If you can't afford something that is your problem. Up until four years ago I used a 56.6 K modem.

So when the government gets involved in health inspections for restaurants, then restaurants turn to crap? When the FDA regulates food and drugs, they turn to crap and our food and drugs get much worse? When the SEC regulates financial markets to prevent things like Ponzi schemes, the financial markets turn to crap?

Do you have some kind of argument beyond "Gub'ment bad! Bad gub'ment!"?

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Shadow4020

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#33 Shadow4020
Member since 2007 • 2097 Posts

A statement from Wheeler himself

"...I am proposing that the FCC use its Title II authority to implement and enforce open internet protections."

"Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, when they want, and the rights of innovators to introduce new products without asking anyone’s permission."

I really hope this passes.

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#34 CrimsonBrute  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 25603 Posts

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#35 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

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GamingTitan

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#36 GamingTitan
Member since 2004 • 657 Posts

Good. This needs to happen~

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Serraph105

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#37 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Agreed, but then isn't the FCC sort of always in a state of being sued?

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#38 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Agreed, but then isn't the FCC sort of always in a state of being sued?

This is going to be so different. I bet you that the major ISPs will band together and hire the best legal defense team money can buy.

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chessmaster1989

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#39  Edited By chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Agreed, but then isn't the FCC sort of always in a state of being sued?

This is going to be so different. I bet you that the major ISPs will band together and hire the best legal defense team money can buy.

Yeah it will be interesting. As I recall the judge that originally struck down the net neutrality rules basically said it would have been ok if they had been classified as Title II. Hopefully that's how it goes this time.

But yeah it'll be nasty.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#40  Edited By deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Agreed, but then isn't the FCC sort of always in a state of being sued?

This is going to be so different. I bet you that the major ISPs will band together and hire the best legal defense team money can buy.

They can try. The pro-net neutrality lobby consists of Google and Facebook. gg wp telecoms

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Serraph105

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#41  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

@Aljosa23 said:

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Agreed, but then isn't the FCC sort of always in a state of being sued?

This is going to be so different. I bet you that the major ISPs will band together and hire the best legal defense team money can buy.

They can try. The pro-net neutrality lobby consists of Google and Facebook. gg wp telecoms

Just going to point out that this didn't work when the court ruled the original version of net neutrality as unlawful.

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#42 mattbbpl
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@airshocker said:

The FCC better bring in the big guns when every ISP known to man sues them.

Verizon and ATT already started playing the victim today. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your perspective) the FCC can clearly point to multiple instances in which these schmucks either blocked or throttled their competitors.

The telecom industry in this country is shady as ****.

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#43  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

@XaosII: Who controls the FDA not he government. It is the local government that does health inspections. You folks will all get what you want and the government gets control. It is like a frog put into a pot of water and the heat is turned up until it is boiling by then it is too late for the frog. The only thing that the government is good at is the military. Everything else they got involved in they made worse, education, housing, healthcare, and it goes on and on.

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#44 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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@JimB said:

@XaosII: Who controls the FDA not he government. It is the local government that does health inspections. You folks will all get what you want and the government gets control. It is like a frog put into a pot of water and the heat is turned up until it is boiling by then it is too late for the frog. The only thing that the government is good at is the military. Everything else they got involved in they made worse, education, housing, healthcare, and it goes on and on.

You do realize that the FDA does much more than health inspections, correct?

This isn't the government getting involved with anything. It's them forcing standards on an industry that doesn't care about consumers and doesn't realize that their actions will have a negative affect on the internet.

I'm as anti-government as they come, but the ISPs are truly scum bags. I would much rather the government get the authority to regulate broadband.

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#45  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

@airshocker: Yes, I know the FDA does a lot more. Also ISP are scum bags. I also remember when there was one major communication company AT&T. A company that was enacted by congress to make sure communications would be reliable during a national emergency. Phone bills for the consumer were inexpensive, business picked up most of the tab. A monopoly law suit was filed which took ten years to settle and the outcome was AT&T had to break up and every one entered the communication business. Look at your phone bill now instead of one page it is multiply pages and it is full of taxes and fees. This is where it internet is headed and with the Government getting involved they will control who get to use it. Just my thoughts. I don't like the government getting involved in anything when they say they are helping me. I truly hope I am wrong.

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horgen

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#46 horgen
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@JimB said:

@airshocker: Yes, I know the FDA does a lot more. Also ISP are scum bags. I also remember when there was one major communication company AT&T. A company that was enacted by congress to make sure communications would be reliable during a national emergency. Phone bills for the consumer were inexpensive, business picked up most of the tab. A monopoly law suit was filed which took ten years to settle and the outcome was AT&T had to break up and every one entered the communication business. Look at your phone bill now instead of one page it is multiply pages and it is full of taxes and fees. This is where it internet is headed and with the Government getting involved they will control who get to use it. Just my thoughts. I don't like the government getting involved in anything when they say they are helping me. I truly hope I am wrong.

That phone bill would have exploded anyway.

The government won't control who get to use the internet. However it will stop this throttling of sites for the simple reason that they do not pay the ISP money.

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#47 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

@JimB said:

@airshocker: Yes, I know the FDA does a lot more. Also ISP are scum bags. I also remember when there was one major communication company AT&T. A company that was enacted by congress to make sure communications would be reliable during a national emergency. Phone bills for the consumer were inexpensive, business picked up most of the tab. A monopoly law suit was filed which took ten years to settle and the outcome was AT&T had to break up and every one entered the communication business. Look at your phone bill now instead of one page it is multiply pages and it is full of taxes and fees. This is where it internet is headed and with the Government getting involved they will control who get to use it. Just my thoughts. I don't like the government getting involved in anything when they say they are helping me. I truly hope I am wrong.

I don't know what bill you're looking at, but I already pay taxes and fees. The enacting of net neutrality isn't going to change that. What it is going to do is ensure that we have an open and free internet that isn't determined by the whims of an ISP. It doesn't matter if you don't like the government. They're the only ones who can ensure this kind of fair treatment for all across that medium.

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#48  Edited By deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Net neutrality is here, my brothers! (And sisters)

Wired op-ed

"After more than a decade of debate and a record-setting proceeding that attracted nearly 4 million public comments, the time to settle the Net Neutrality question has arrived. This week, I will circulate to the members of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) proposed new rules to preserve the internet as an open platform for innovation and free expression. This proposal is rooted in long-standing regulatory principles, marketplace experience, and public input received over the last several months.

Broadband network operators have an understandable motivation to manage their network to maximize their business interests. But their actions may not always be optimal for network users. The Congress gave the FCC broad authority to update its rules to reflect changes in technology and marketplace behavior in a way that protects consumers. Over the years, the Commission has used this authority to the public’s great benefit.

The internet wouldn’t have emerged as it did, for instance, if the FCC hadn’t mandated open access for network equipment in the late 1960s. Before then, AT&T prohibited anyone from attaching non-AT&T equipment to the network. The modems that enabled the internet were usable only because the FCC required the network to be open.

Companies such as AOL were able to grow in the early days of home computing because these modems gave them access to the open telephone network.

I personally learned the importance of open networks the hard way. In the mid-1980s I was president of a startup, NABU: The Home Computer Network. My company was using new technology to deliver high-speed data to home computers over cable television lines. Across town Steve Case was starting what became AOL. NABU was delivering service at the then-blazing speed of 1.5 megabits per second—hundreds of times faster than Case’s company. “We used to worry about you a lot,” Case told me years later.

But NABU went broke while AOL became very successful. Why that is highlights the fundamental problem with allowing networks to act as gatekeepers.

While delivering better service, NABU had to depend on cable television operators granting access to their systems. Steve Case was not only a brilliant entrepreneur, but he also had access to an unlimited number of customers nationwide who only had to attach a modem to their phone line to receive his service. The phone network was open whereas the cable networks were closed. End of story.

The phone network’s openness did not happen by accident, but by FCC rule. How we precisely deliver that kind of openness for America’s broadband networks has been the subject of a debate over the last several months.

Originally, I believed that the FCC could assure internet openness through a determination of “commercial reasonableness” under Section 706 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. While a recent court decision seemed to draw a roadmap for using this approach, I became concerned that this relatively new concept might, down the road, be interpreted to mean what is reasonable for commercial interests, not consumers.

That is why I am proposing that the FCC use its Title II authority to implement and enforce open internet protections.

Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, when they want, and the rights of innovators to introduce new products without asking anyone’s permission.

All of this can be accomplished while encouraging investment in broadband networks. To preserve incentives for broadband operators to invest in their networks, my proposal will modernize Title II, tailoring it for the 21st century, in order to provide returns necessary to construct competitive networks. For example, there will be no rate regulation, no tariffs, no last-mile unbundling. Over the last 21 years, the wireless industry has invested almost $300 billion under similar rules, proving that modernized Title II regulation can encourage investment and competition.

Congress wisely gave the FCC the power to update its rules to keep pace with innovation. Under that authority my proposal includes a general conduct rule that can be used to stop new and novel threats to the internet. This means the action we take will be strong enough and flexible enough not only to deal with the realities of today, but also to establish ground rules for the as yet unimagined.

The internet must be fast, fair and open. That is the message I’ve heard from consumers and innovators across this nation. That is the principle that has enabled the internet to become an unprecedented platform for innovation and human expression. And that is the lesson I learned heading a tech startup at the dawn of the internet age. The proposal I present to the commission will ensure the internet remains open, now and in the future, for all Americans."

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#49 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

Lets hope they are adopted.

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#50 The-Apostle
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts

Since I was ignored on another site...

@Shadow4020 said:

A statement from Wheeler himself

"...I am proposing that the FCC use its Title II authority to implement and enforce open internet protections."

"Using this authority, I am submitting to my colleagues the strongest open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright-line rules will ban paid prioritization, and the blocking and throttling of lawful content and services. I propose to fully apply—for the first time ever—those bright-line rules to mobile broadband. My proposal assures the rights of internet users to go where they want, when they want, and the rights of innovators to introduce new products without asking anyone’s permission."

I really hope this passes.

Does this mean the end of limited data plans? Can we go back to unlimited data? :D