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#1 Posted by dave123321 (34077 posts) -

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

#2 Posted by Master_Live (14668 posts) -

Son of bitches. Until you find the proper drugs all executions in the U.S. should be halted.

#3 Edited by SaintLeonidas (26281 posts) -

Arizona is worthless.

#4 Edited by BranKetra (48634 posts) -

I agree with this considering the stance of the Supreme Court:

Deborah Denno, professor of criminal law and criminal procedure at Fordham Law School, said it may be up to Legislatures or the public to bring any change.

"I think every time one of these botches happens, it leads to questioning the death penalty even more," she said. "It will reach a point where the public will question the value of these execution procedures generally, and perhaps the death penalty itself."

#5 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

Guillotine is the only answer

#6 Posted by Aljosa23 (24995 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Guillotine is the only answer

or a bullet to the head. Quicker and cheaper, too! If you're going to kill someone you might as well go all the way with it.

#7 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

Bullets have gotten too expensive in Obama's America

#8 Posted by foxhound_fox (88426 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Guillotine is the only answer

If they want to do it, this is really the only truly humane way to do it (I'm not sure why it ever went out of style, it was quick and very efficient). Severing the head at the neck is instantaneous and irreversible. The only problem is if they somehow miss the neck... but then it would still be death.

#9 Posted by BossPerson (9469 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Guillotine is the only answer

If they want to do it, this is really the only truly humane way to do it (I'm not sure why it ever went out of style, it was quick and very efficient). Severing the head at the neck is instantaneous and irreversible. The only problem is if they somehow miss the neck... but then it would still be death.

would suck if your somehow still alive for a couple seconds after.

#10 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@BossPerson said:

@foxhound_fox said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Guillotine is the only answer

If they want to do it, this is really the only truly humane way to do it (I'm not sure why it ever went out of style, it was quick and very efficient). Severing the head at the neck is instantaneous and irreversible. The only problem is if they somehow miss the neck... but then it would still be death.

would suck if your somehow still alive for a couple seconds after.

Better than still being alive for a couple of hours after, no?

#11 Posted by BossPerson (9469 posts) -

as if we're discussing he most humane way to kill people.

#12 Posted by Korvus (3853 posts) -
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Guillotine is the only answer

Seems fool-proof enough...no gasping for hours when your head is separated from your shoulders.

#13 Posted by BSC14 (3887 posts) -

You guys against the death penalty, what would you suggest doing with these people?

I'm just curious how you think these things should be handled? The death penalty is one of those things I struggle with. I don't like the idea of killing anyone but at the same time trying to rehabilitate most of these people into society also isn't realistic. Some of them are damn near animals until the day they die.

What's the answer here?

#14 Edited by Korvus (3853 posts) -

@BSC14: I wonder the same thing...I'm always undecided about death penalty. I keep hearing people talk about rehabilitation, but if someone decides to go out on a killing spree, why should we care about his right to live when he didn't? Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime?

#15 Posted by Serraph105 (28082 posts) -

@BSC14:

I agree with struggling to support the death penalty, it's even harder to do so knowing that getting to the death penalty is far more costly to the public than simply a life sentence.

#16 Posted by Korvus (3853 posts) -

@Serraph105: I'm assuming you're referring to trials and whatnot, right? Never looked into costs before...you're saying that all the expenses on someone on life sentence still wouldn't cover the extra trial expense for death penalty? That's interesting. On the bright side a dead person takes no space and no more lives.

#17 Posted by Aljosa23 (24995 posts) -

@korvus said:

@BSC14: I wonder the same thing...I'm always undecided about death penalty. I keep hearing people talk about rehabilitation, but if someone decides to go out on a killing spree, why should we care about his right to live when he didn't? Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime?

Some people are not able to be rehabilitated and housing someone for life is still cheaper than putting them up on death row and going through the necessary channels to have them executed. The dude in the OP was convicted in 1989, nearly 25 years ago and just now went up to be executed. That is a lot of wasted money spent in the courts that could have gone elsewhere. Now this isn't even mentioning the fact that some folks on death row are rehabilitated and by 25 years you're not even executing the same person that committed the crime. And of course all the innocent people there and conservative estimates place around 4% on death row are innocent.

There's really nothing no positive argument you can make for the death penalty anymore. It's a barbaric practise that only the most awful countries (and the US, for some reason) still have.

#18 Posted by Korvus (3853 posts) -

@Aljosa23: An argument would be "don't spend 25 years on a case" =P...I would rather get death penalty than life sentence, to be honest, but that's not here nor there for this argument...why do you think it's a barbaric pratise to get rid of someone who killed hundreds? (Hypothetical situation)

#19 Edited by Aljosa23 (24995 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: An argument would be "don't spend 25 years on a case" =P...I would rather get death penalty than life sentence, to be honest, but that's not here nor there for this argument...why do you think it's a barbaric pratise to get rid of someone who killed hundreds? (Hypothetical situation)

25 years is how long it takes to go through appeals and all the courts necessary. If they didn't have it set up that way even more innocent folks would get killed.

Killing is still killing no matter what scale it is. I'm not comfortable with my tax money going to fund state sanctioned murder. More productive to have them work tarring roads or digging in stone quarries.

#20 Posted by Korvus (3853 posts) -

@Aljosa23: Fair enough...I just don't understand the double standard (not referring to you). I lot of the people I know/have spoken to, say things like "If I found someone trying to rape my daughter he wouldn't even make it to court; I'd kill him" but then say "Death penalty is horrific...nobody has the right to condemn others to death...it would make us no better than them". So raping your daughter is a capital offense, but being a mass murderer is worthy of rehabilitation. What gives?

#21 Posted by Aljosa23 (24995 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: Fair enough...I just don't understand the double standard (not referring to you). I lot of the people I know/have spoken to, say things like "If I found someone trying to rape my daughter he wouldn't even make it to court; I'd kill him" but then say "Death penalty is horrific...nobody has the right to condemn others to death...it would make us no better than them". So raping your daughter is a capital offense, but being a mass murderer is worthy of rehabilitation. What gives?

I believe it's because someone sexually assaulting a close family member is more traumatic to you personally and produces a much larger emotional response. Hearing someone like the Norway shooter on the news, there's a much larger disconnect compared to something happening in your vicinity. But at the same time it's dumb to say stuff like that since no one knows how they would react in an extreme situation like walking in on a rapist/pedophile during the act. I won't blame someone who acts on impulse in that situation either, to be honest. The cold and calculated planning of capital punishment is disturbing especially when they try to make these bizarre drug cocktails to make it seem "humane".

#22 Edited by BSC14 (3887 posts) -

@Aljosa23:

I hate to say I agree with you in any way but I do.

Some do in fact go to prison and by the time they are executed they are very different people, the guy in the OP sounds like he fits that description pretty well.

Not sure what the answer is...

#23 Posted by deeliman (2432 posts) -

Killing is wrong, unless it's done by a big bureaucracy!

#24 Edited by thegerg (15271 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

You guys against the death penalty, what would you suggest doing with these people?

The same things we do with convicts that we don't execute.

#25 Posted by BSC14 (3887 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@BSC14 said:

You guys against the death penalty, what would you suggest doing with these people?

The same things we do with convicts that we don't execute.

Let'em out early because of overcrowding so that they can go back to a life of crime?

That's worked out so well...

#26 Posted by thegerg (15271 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

@thegerg said:

@BSC14 said:

You guys against the death penalty, what would you suggest doing with these people?

The same things we do with convicts that we don't execute.

Let'em out early because of overcrowding so that they can go back to a life of crime?

That's worked out so well...

Or don't do that, like we do with other convicts.

#27 Posted by Flubbbs (3099 posts) -

i dont see why they are calling it botched.. he died in the end... sounds like justice was served to me

#28 Edited by bforrester420 (1604 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Bullets have gotten too expensive in Obama's America

Good. Like Chris Rock said, gun violence in this country would virtually end if bullets cost $5,000.00 each.

#29 Posted by udUbdaWgz1 (631 posts) -

arizona: mexico, guns, mexicans, families, drugs, etc etc etc

lol, you know what ends a lot of the violence? me, shooting to kill, a wall, no policies, throw-back policies and you and your family gone.

lol, so tough.

#30 Posted by Treflis (11558 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

@thegerg said:

@BSC14 said:

You guys against the death penalty, what would you suggest doing with these people?

The same things we do with convicts that we don't execute.

Let'em out early because of overcrowding so that they can go back to a life of crime?

That's worked out so well...

There is a thing called life sentence.

#31 Posted by bforrester420 (1604 posts) -

@udubdawgz1 said:

arizona: mexico, guns, mexicans, families, drugs, etc etc etc

lol, you know what ends a lot of the violence? me, shooting to kill, a wall, no policies, throw-back policies and you and your family gone.

lol, so tough.

You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

#32 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@Flubbbs: "i dont see why they are calling it botched.. he died in the end... sounds like justice was served to me"

I don't know if that's justice, I mean do families of murder victims really feel any better when the murderer is executed? Maybe maybe not.

I don't know of a suitable punishment to make up for the pain and suffering caused by being murdered and the effects on a murder victims family.

#33 Posted by PannicAtack (21021 posts) -

'cause it's not murder if the gubmint says it isn't.

#34 Edited by PannicAtack (21021 posts) -

@xeno_ghost said:

@Flubbbs: "i dont see why they are calling it botched.. he died in the end... sounds like justice was served to me"

I don't know if that's justice, I mean do families of murder victims really feel any better when the murderer is executed? Maybe maybe not.

I don't know of a suitable punishment to make up for the pain and suffering caused by being murdered and the effects on a murder victims family.

Every time I hear the word "justice" in this context it just seems to mean "sadism."

#35 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29308 posts) -

Wish we'd go ahead and abolish the death penalty

#36 Edited by Serraph105 (28082 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Serraph105: I'm assuming you're referring to trials and whatnot, right? Never looked into costs before...you're saying that all the expenses on someone on life sentence still wouldn't cover the extra trial expense for death penalty? That's interesting. On the bright side a dead person takes no space and no more lives.

Indeed it is (third one down), now that might be a case of needing to reform how we hold trials, but as the article mentions several states have dropped the death penalty because they simply couldn't afford to have it anymore.

#37 Posted by Jacanuk (4574 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

Thats what happens when liberal minded americans and europeans puts pressure on the pharmaceutical industry because they do their business with Federal/State prisons.

So now you gotta ask those liberals, do you want this or do you want them to have a easy way out.

#38 Posted by dave123321 (34077 posts) -

Yeah the death penalty should go away

#39 Edited by BranKetra (48634 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

Thats what happens when liberal minded americans and europeans puts pressure on the pharmaceutical industry because they do their business with Federal/State prisons.

So now you gotta ask those liberals, do you want this or do you want them to have a easy way out.

What happens, exactly?

#40 Posted by Jacanuk (4574 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

Thats what happens when liberal minded americans and europeans puts pressure on the pharmaceutical industry because they do their business with Federal/State prisons.

So now you gotta ask those liberals, do you want this or do you want them to have a easy way out.

What happens, exactly?

You force the prisons to buy untested drugs that can cause something like that to happen.

Also its not the free market thats the problem, if people are upset with the DP they should go change the law in their state.

#41 Edited by BranKetra (48634 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

Thats what happens when liberal minded americans and europeans puts pressure on the pharmaceutical industry because they do their business with Federal/State prisons.

So now you gotta ask those liberals, do you want this or do you want them to have a easy way out.

What happens, exactly?

You force the prisons to buy untested drugs that can cause something like that to happen.

Also its not the free market thats the problem, if people are upset with the DP they should go change the law in their state.

Do you have a source to prove they are untested?

I would like to know.

#42 Edited by Riverwolf007 (23769 posts) -

out of all these "botched" executions there was not one case where if some guy had not horribly murdered a person he would have been in the position he was in.

to be brutally honest my position is the execution should take at least as long and be just as horrible as the crime itself.

one of these guys took hours to rape and kill a pregnant woman and another one shot then buried his victim alive.

#43 Edited by fueled-system (6292 posts) -

He killed his girlfriend and his girlfriend's father she begged for her life sorry I have zero sympathy

#44 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58109 posts) -

He who passes the sentence should swing the sword. You heard me, Judge Judy.

#45 Posted by Jacanuk (4574 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk said:

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/first-amendment-fight-wont-stop-arizona-execution

What are your guys thoughts on this?

Difficult stuff

Thats what happens when liberal minded americans and europeans puts pressure on the pharmaceutical industry because they do their business with Federal/State prisons.

So now you gotta ask those liberals, do you want this or do you want them to have a easy way out.

What happens, exactly?

You force the prisons to buy untested drugs that can cause something like that to happen.

Also its not the free market thats the problem, if people are upset with the DP they should go change the law in their state.

Do you have a source to prove they are untested?

I would like to know.

Arizona’s botched execution is likely to revive the US’s long-running debate over the death penalty and the use of lethal injection drugs.

The drugs have become harder for states to secure as drugmakers opposed to capital punishment – especially in Europe – refuse to supply them under pressure from human rights campaigners.

The execution of Wood began at 1.52pm in a state prison complex and the inmate was pronounced dead just shy of two hours later at 3.49pm, the Arizona attorney-general’s office said.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/247a8adc-12e8-11e4-a6d4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38QNV9Qv0

There you go

#46 Posted by airshocker (29697 posts) -

Bring back firing squads. Shit, we have automated gattling turrets that can shoot groups the size of my fist. No reason we can't use those to put a 7.62 through the heart of somebody on death row.

#47 Posted by BranKetra (48634 posts) -

@Jacanuk: I am not signing up for that email newsletter, so I will not be reading that. What you quoted is not proof the drugs used for the death penalty are untested.

#48 Posted by Jacanuk (4574 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk: I am not signing up for that email newsletter, so I will not be reading that. What you quoted is not proof the drugs used for the death penalty are untested.

Hmm, strange when i first read it nothing came up but here you go

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/us/arizona-takes-nearly-2-hours-to-execute-inmate.html?_r=0

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/arizona-killer-still-alive-an-hour-after-execution-begins

n his dissenting opinion to the stay of execution issued by the appeals court this week, Kozinski argued that the use in executions of drugs designed to help sick people was an “enterprise doomed to failure”. On Wednesday, he told the Guardian that he had thought about the problems with lethal injections for a long time, and that though his criticisms were not geared specifically to the Wood case in particular, he had decided it was time to speak out.

The use of such drugs was, he said, “a complicated process that is not designed for executions. I had no idea how this would go down in the Wood case, but it's obvious that this is the kind of process where there tends to be these kinds of problems.”

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which has been campaigning against death penalty secrecy in several states, said that Arizona had violated the first amendment, the eighth amendment and the bounds of basic decency.

#49 Posted by BranKetra (48634 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@BranKetra said:

@Jacanuk: I am not signing up for that email newsletter, so I will not be reading that. What you quoted is not proof the drugs used for the death penalty are untested.

Hmm, strange when i first read it nothing came up but here you go

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/us/arizona-takes-nearly-2-hours-to-execute-inmate.html?_r=0

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/arizona-killer-still-alive-an-hour-after-execution-begins

n his dissenting opinion to the stay of execution issued by the appeals court this week, Kozinski argued that the use in executions of drugs designed to help sick people was an “enterprise doomed to failure”. On Wednesday, he told the Guardian that he had thought about the problems with lethal injections for a long time, and that though his criticisms were not geared specifically to the Wood case in particular, he had decided it was time to speak out.

The use of such drugs was, he said, “a complicated process that is not designed for executions. I had no idea how this would go down in the Wood case, but it's obvious that this is the kind of process where there tends to be these kinds of problems.”

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which has been campaigning against death penalty secrecy in several states, said that Arizona had violated the first amendment, the eighth amendment and the bounds of basic decency.

My interpretation of Kozinski's assertions is that he considers the current method of using medicine which he says is usually meant for curing individuals is inappropriately utilized as a form of captial punishment, but not that it is untested.

#50 Posted by ferrari2001 (16934 posts) -

There is no reason the death penalty should be legal anywhere in the United States. Time to catch up with the times and get rid of it.