Dude pulls into wrong driveway by mistake, home owner shoots and kills him

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#151 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"]Mmmm, seems like there's more to the story. Shot in the head? How is that possible unless the old guy got lucky. Why would the teens stay in the driveway for so long and especially when someone came out of the house the driveway belongs to, with a gun. The story the victim's friends came up with doesn't really add up either. Their GPS wasn't giving them the right address?

"How is that possible unless the old guy got lucky." Because the weapon was aimed at is head.

But the kid was in his vehicle was he not? I don't think he would be stupid enough to stay outside after figuring out he's in the wrong neighborhood.

"But the kid was in his vehicle was he not?" Yes. And?
#152 Posted by guynamedbilly (12952 posts) -
Well, all I've got is that I live in the south and no one seems paranoid at all. Seems equally valid.jim_shorts
Flip a coin then? I'll let you flip. I call heads.
#153 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"] "So give several examples of humans acting without any emotion at all if you'd like to claim that." I dropped my keys earlier and picked them up. Emotion had nothing to do with that. I picked up coffee for coworkers this morning because I was going anyway and it was no extra effort, emotion had nothing to do with that. I ate lunch because I was hungry and had an instinctual drive to eat, emotion had nothing to do with that. Now, support your point that humans don't react without emotion. " Preparation is about taking steps to increase your odds of survival." Again, not always. Last night I put my wallet, keys, and access badge in my boots in order to prepare for the morning to save a few minutes, not in order to survive. You have a very bad habit of generalizing. "You buy a gun for home defense because you fear for your life" No, I don't. Stop making such silly accusations. "If you didn't fear you wouldn't do it." History says otherwise.

"No, not always" is not an argument.

Desire Caring and interest in those individuals Hunger is an emotion Emotions are what causes humans to react. You prepared to save time when time is important. You fear being late.
#154 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -
[QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"]Mmmm, seems like there's more to the story. Shot in the head? How is that possible unless the old guy got lucky. Why would the teens stay in the driveway for so long and especially when someone came out of the house the driveway belongs to, with a gun. The story the victim's friends came up with doesn't really add up either. Their GPS wasn't giving them the right address?

"How is that possible unless the old guy got lucky." Because the weapon was aimed at is head.

Wind shields ain't bullet proof. But the kid was in his vehicle was he not? I don't think he would be stupid enough to stay outside after figuring out he's in the wrong neighborhood.

#155 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="thegerg"] "So give several examples of humans acting without any emotion at all if you'd like to claim that." I dropped my keys earlier and picked them up. Emotion had nothing to do with that. I picked up coffee for coworkers this morning because I was going anyway and it was no extra effort, emotion had nothing to do with that. I ate lunch because I was hungry and had an instinctual drive to eat, emotion had nothing to do with that. Now, support your point that humans don't react without emotion. " Preparation is about taking steps to increase your odds of survival." Again, not always. Last night I put my wallet, keys, and access badge in my boots in order to prepare for the morning to save a few minutes, not in order to survive. You have a very bad habit of generalizing. "You buy a gun for home defense because you fear for your life" No, I don't. Stop making such silly accusations. "If you didn't fear you wouldn't do it." History says otherwise.

"No, not always" is not an argument.

Desire Caring and interest in those individuals Hunger is an emotion Emotions are what causes humans to react. You prepared to save time when time is important. You fear being late.

"No, not always" is not an argument. " Making baseless and unsupported claims in order to attempt your point is not an argument. "Desire" Uh, what about it? "Caring and interest in those individuals" WTF are you on about? "Hunger is an emotion" I'm not sure what this random statement is in reference to, but you're wrong. It's a physical sensation. "Emotions are what causes humans to react." No, not always. There are things like instinct, for example. Do a little research, kiddo. "You prepared to save time when time is important. You fear being late." No, I do not. You seem to be very confused. Anyway, your claim was that people prepare in order to survive, not to avoid fear. Make up your mind.
#156 Posted by rastotm (1370 posts) -

Going back to get a gun in order to kill the people on your property seems a odd response to fear.

#157 Posted by whiskeystrike (12068 posts) -

Since I don't want to make a new thread for this question but why do gun owners defend their property if it actually was a home invasion? By property I mean stuff like TV, video game systems, jewelery, etc. Stuff that you (should) have insurance on and are easily replaced. Is it worth risking you and your loved one's lives in danger?

Aljosa23
Maybe some pride? It's certainly irrational either way.
#158 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"] "No, not always" is not an argument. " Making baseless and unsupported claims in order to attempt your point is not an argument. "Desire" Uh, what about it? "Caring and interest in those individuals" WTF are you on about? "Hunger is an emotion" I'm not sure what this random statement is in reference to, but you're wrong. It's a physical sensation. "Emotions are what causes humans to react." No, not always. There are things like instinct, for example. Do a little research, kiddo. "You prepared to save time when time is important. You fear being late." No, I do not. You seem to be very confused. Anyway, your claim was that people prepare in order to survive, not to avoid fear. Make up your mind.

Desire you have an object you need to proceed through your day to day routine, access your home and car. Desire to have a need fulfilled. That's an emotion. Caring for others is an emotion. Hunger is the desire to have a need met. Desire is an emotion. Instincts and emotions are not opposed to each other and you can be acting under what you would say is instinct while feeling emotion. Your survival depends on making money. Being late is counter to that. Hence you fear being late. Look at you expressing your anger though. You don't even post here without emotions.
#159 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

Going back to get a gun in order to kill the people on your property seems a odd response to fear.

rastotm
Implying emotions always lead people to rational actions.
#160 Posted by sSubZerOo (43064 posts) -

Why does this always happen with old people in the south? Are they that parinoid?

Wasdie

I blame the media.. We have these ignorant people watching all these terrible stories, because violence sells, making them believe that this sh!t happens every where constantly..

#161 Posted by sSubZerOo (43064 posts) -

[QUOTE="Moriarity_"]I can understand the warning shot but if the guy was backing out of the driveway why shoot again?whipassmt

Maybe he didn't notice the guy was leaving, or maybe his finger slipped and he fired by accident?

... You can't even justify a warning shot, how the fvck are we suppose to trust this guy with some one knocking on his door? Or a few people selling a product or other such thing?.. You can't.. This guy should never have had a weapon to begin with if this is his very FIRST response with a car pulling into the drive way.

#162 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="Moriarity_"]I can understand the warning shot but if the guy was backing out of the driveway why shoot again?sSubZerOo

Maybe he didn't notice the guy was leaving, or maybe his finger slipped and he fired by accident?

... You can't even justify a warning shot, how the fvck are we suppose to trust this guy with some one knocking on his door? Or a few people selling a product or other such thing?.. You can't.. This guy should never have had a weapon to begin with if this is his very FIRST response with a car pulling into the drive way.

First response of people leaving his drive way according to the story. Also he claims that they tried to run him down which is why he shot. The police say the scene does not point to that being possible.
#163 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="thegerg"] "No, not always" is not an argument. " Making baseless and unsupported claims in order to attempt your point is not an argument. "Desire" Uh, what about it? "Caring and interest in those individuals" WTF are you on about? "Hunger is an emotion" I'm not sure what this random statement is in reference to, but you're wrong. It's a physical sensation. "Emotions are what causes humans to react." No, not always. There are things like instinct, for example. Do a little research, kiddo. "You prepared to save time when time is important. You fear being late." No, I do not. You seem to be very confused. Anyway, your claim was that people prepare in order to survive, not to avoid fear. Make up your mind.

Desire you have an object you need to proceed through your day to day routine, access your home and car. Desire to have a need fulfilled. That's an emotion. Caring for others is an emotion. Hunger is the desire to have a need met. Desire is an emotion. Instincts and emotions are not opposed to each other and you can be acting under what you would say is instinct while feeling emotion. Your survival depends on making money. Being late is counter to that. Hence you fear being late. Look at you expressing your anger though. You don't even post here without emotions.

I didn't desire my keys, I already have them. Ok, but I didn't get coffee out of care. Hunger is a physical sensation. I would get paid regardless of if I was late, it was not about earning money for survival. It was not about fear, stop making such accusations. I'm not expressing anger, you seem to be very confused.
#164 Posted by rastotm (1370 posts) -

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

Going back to get a gun in order to kill the people on your property seems a odd response to fear.

Ace6301

Implying emotions always lead people to rational actions.

He claimed to feel fear because he assumed a conflict. The normal response to fear tends to be flee whenever it's possible, if not then fight. In the discussed situation, the man went back to his home, by which he avoided the conflict. After which he picked his gun and engaged the people in the car. This re-engaging is not a rational response to fear, it is a act of aggression in order to protect his valueables.

#165 Posted by SirWander (5176 posts) -

"the 69-year-old Vietnam vet"

this doesn't surprise me at all.

"the police report indicates that the vehicle was leaving Sailors property when Diaz was shot. Lilburn police said they found his red Mitsubishi at the end of the driveway."

A warning shot should of been enough, why did he keep shooting after the car was leaving?

#166 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="rastotm"]

Going back to get a gun in order to kill the people on your property seems a odd response to fear.

rastotm

Implying emotions always lead people to rational actions.

He claimed to feel fear because he assumed a conflict. The normal response to fear tends to be flee whenever it's possible, if not then fight. In the discussed situation, the man went back to his home, by which he avoided the conflict. After which he picked his gun and engaged the people in the car. This re-engaging is not a rational response to fear, it is a act of aggression in order to protect his valueables.

If he assumed a conflict was imminent then arming himself would be rational. You have a greater chance with a weapon than without one obviously. However his motive for shooting them as they were leaving is suspect. It could have been he really did (incorrectly) feel his life was in danger. He could be senile. He could be an extreme racist and saw the color of the persons skin. We don't know. Shooting someone while they attempt to leave you alone is irrational though (unless you can be sure they're going to be back to try and harm you), regardless of motive
#167 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -

"the 69-year-old Vietnam vet"

this doesn't surprise me at all.

"the police report indicates that the vehicle was leaving Sailors property when Diaz was shot. Lilburn police said they found his red Mitsubishi at the end of the driveway."

A warning shot should of been enough, why did he keep shooting after the car was leaving?

SirWander

A warning shot is way too much not "enough" when you shoot into the air the bullet does not just disappear. Thinking that shooting wildly into the air because there is a car stopped in your driveway is insane.

#168 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="SirWander"]

"the 69-year-old Vietnam vet"

this doesn't surprise me at all.

"the police report indicates that the vehicle was leaving Sailors property when Diaz was shot. Lilburn police said they found his red Mitsubishi at the end of the driveway."

A warning shot should of been enough, why did he keep shooting after the car was leaving?

Person0

A warning shot is way too much not "enough" when you shoot into the air the bullet does not just disappear. Thinking that shooting wildly into the air because there is a car stopped in your driveway is insane.

Killing a 22 year old as he tries to leave after you've fired a warning shot is also insane. He's consistent at least.
#169 Posted by SirWander (5176 posts) -

A warning shot is way too much not "enough" when you shoot into the air the bullet does not just disappear. Thinking that shooting wildly into the air because there is a car stopped in your driveway is insane.

Person0

Yeah, no sh!t Sherlock; but why does that make him (Sailors) think that seeing a car parked in his driveway was cause enough for him to shoot in the air? But it's relative, he could have not shot the driver, and shooting in the air could still be construed as a ludicrous act. But shooting directly at a car that is leaving when a warning shot should of sufficed, I don't understand how he thought that was a good idea (IE stand up as a justifiable excuse in the court of law).

#170 Posted by TheTolemac (82 posts) -
Alright guys how long until this is used in a gun-ban example on the news?
#171 Posted by rastotm (1370 posts) -

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Implying emotions always lead people to rational actions.Ace6301

He claimed to feel fear because he assumed a conflict. The normal response to fear tends to be flee whenever it's possible, if not then fight. In the discussed situation, the man went back to his home, by which he avoided the conflict. After which he picked his gun and engaged the people in the car. This re-engaging is not a rational response to fear, it is a act of aggression in order to protect his valueables.

If he assumed a conflict was imminent then arming himself would be rational. You have a greater chance with a weapon than without one obviously. However his motive for shooting them as they were leaving is suspect. It could have been he really did (incorrectly) feel his life was in danger. He could be senile. He could be an extreme racist and saw the color of the persons skin. We don't know. Shooting someone while they attempt to leave you alone is irrational though (unless you can be sure they're going to be back to try and harm you), regardless of motive

He had a far greater chance by fleeing or locking himself up in the house. The fact of the matter remains that he disengaged and engaged again. This is a unlikely response to fear. It is however possible that he went back with the, reasonably acceptable, intent to scare the people away from his property. This escalated in a situation where he felt the need to shoot in order to protect his life. Which leads my to my main point, this isn't a simple case of self defense because he returned in order chase the people away which can be deemed as a irresponsible act. That being said, it seems we largely agree. I simply replied because emotions and related behaviour are interesting subjects.

#172 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="rastotm"] He claimed to feel fear because he assumed a conflict. The normal response to fear tends to be flee whenever it's possible, if not then fight. In the discussed situation, the man went back to his home, by which he avoided the conflict. After which he picked his gun and engaged the people in the car. This re-engaging is not a rational response to fear, it is a act of aggression in order to protect his valueables.

rastotm

If he assumed a conflict was imminent then arming himself would be rational. You have a greater chance with a weapon than without one obviously. However his motive for shooting them as they were leaving is suspect. It could have been he really did (incorrectly) feel his life was in danger. He could be senile. He could be an extreme racist and saw the color of the persons skin. We don't know. Shooting someone while they attempt to leave you alone is irrational though (unless you can be sure they're going to be back to try and harm you), regardless of motive

He had a far greater chance by fleeing or locking himself up in the house. The fact of the matter remains that he disengaged and engaged again. This is a unlikely response to fear. It is however possible that he went back with the, reasonably acceptable, intent to scare the people away from his property. This escalated in a situation where he felt the need to shoot in order to protect his life. Which leads my to my main point, this isn't a simple case of self defense because he returned in order chase the people away which can be deemed as a irresponsible act. That being said, it seems we largely agree. I simply replied because emotions and related behaviour are interesting subjects.

He probably would have. Not everyone reacts the same to emotions though. Some people are afraid of buildings they believe are haunted and make a sport out of spending a night there because fear can be exciting. Some people will initially run away and then change their mind and come back and try to kill someone. What starts as one emotion may lead to another as one gains the upperhand. Excitement over fear and anger over fear respectively. Just because it's not the driving emotion at the time per se doesn't mean that it wasn't there to set off the chain of events. I somewhat doubt in this situation that he did the shooting out of fear for his life seeing as how it appears he's lying about the events now. Assuming they were indeed fleeing it's extremely clear cut murder.
#173 Posted by Nayef_shroof (709 posts) -
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]

Well, if people in the states are that ardent about keeping their guns, I would suggest that politicians enforce policies that would make it much more difficult to obtain a gun license. It's just ludicrous how many incidents like this occur.

Person0
You don't need a gun license to own a gun.

To own one legally I mean.
#174 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"]

Well, if people in the states are that ardent about keeping their guns, I would suggest that politicians enforce policies that would make it much more difficult to obtain a gun license. It's just ludicrous how many incidents like this occur.

Nayef_shroof
You don't need a gun license to own a gun.

To own one legally I mean.

So does he.
#175 Posted by Nayef_shroof (709 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="Person0"] You don't need a gun license to own a gun.

To own one legally I mean.

So does he.

? How does it work in the United States then?
#176 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] To own one legally I mean.

So does he.

? How does it work in the United States then?

It varies by state.
#177 Posted by Nayef_shroof (709 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="thegerg"] So does he.

? How does it work in the United States then?

It varies by state.

But generally you need a gun license to own a gun, right?
#178 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -
[QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] ? How does it work in the United States then?

It varies by state.

But generally you need a gun license to own a gun, right?

No.
#179 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

Jesus... I better think twice before I use someone else's driveway to turn on a street.

#180 Posted by thegerg (14828 posts) -

Jesus... I better think twice before I use someone else's driveway to turn on a street.

Vari3ty
You're far more likely to die driving on the street.
#181 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

I can understand the warning shot but if the guy was backing out of the driveway why shoot again?Moriarity_

That warning shot was incredibly reckless as well. Shots fired into the air come back down and they can hit innocent people. The man really had no business owning a gun.

#182 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Nayef_shroof"] ? How does it work in the United States then?Nayef_shroof
It varies by state.

But generally you need a gun license to own a gun, right?

In many states its go to store, pass instant background check and walk out with gun or wait like a week or 2 and go back for gun. At guns shows it pass background check, walk out with gun.

#183 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3776 posts) -

[QUOTE="double_decker"][QUOTE="Crazyguy105"]

Another life needlessly lost.

Why are trigger happy people allowed to use weapons again?

wis3boi

Because if not they'd just find other ways to kill, people have been doing that since the beginning of time.

I highly doubt a man pulling into the wrong driveway would have died if this idiot didnt have a gun on him. What would he do, throw a knife through the windshield?

this.

The argument against guns is getting stronger and stronger...

#184 Posted by Big_Pecks (5242 posts) -

What a completely rational decision!

#185 Posted by DaJuicyMan (3444 posts) -

RIP Rodrigo. But still, moar gunz.

#186 Posted by one_plum (6343 posts) -

Is the background check easier to pass than a grade 1 math quiz?

#187 Posted by hiphops_savior (7856 posts) -
Strong suspicion that the shooter might have undiagnosed dementia.
#188 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -

Is the background check easier to pass than a grade 1 math quiz?

one_plum
Well the one form you have to fill out the answer is no for every question so probably. The background check just checks for convictions afaik
#189 Posted by sonicare (53448 posts) -

[QUOTE="Moriarity_"]I can understand the warning shot but if the guy was backing out of the driveway why shoot again?worlock77

That warning shot was incredibly reckless as well. Shots fired into the air come back down and they can hit innocent people. The man really had no business owning a gun.

Pretty much. He should go to jail for manslaughter at least. He had no reason to shoot that person. It was not - in the least bit - self defense.
#190 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

Really don't understand why he shot this guy. If events were as reported here, he should be charged with murder. You have to at least wait until someone stops, gets out of their car, and in some way threatens you with a weapon or tries to break in. Shooting the guy as he drove away? Boy.. he really showed him.

#191 Posted by airshocker (28993 posts) -

Good on the police. Castle law shouldn't be abused and they did right, so it seems, by charging this man.

#192 Posted by The_Gaming_Baby (6335 posts) -

Damn, itchy triger finger much. People really should be trained how to use a gun before being allowed to purchase one

#193 Posted by tenaka2 (17019 posts) -

Another gun death that could have been so easily avoided if both parties had more guns :(

#194 Posted by toast_burner (21426 posts) -

American gun culture is messed up. It gives stupid people the idea that you need guns to defend yourself, which in turn creates the idea that you're constantly in danger and the only way to fight that danger is with a gun.

#195 Posted by MirkoS77 (7137 posts) -
Seems to me some people just are looking for any reason to kill someone else and then claim legal grounds for doing so. Same as people who enlist simply to be able to kill others without fear of retribution. The guy's probably just looking to be able to put that arsenal to use.
#196 Posted by Lonelynight (30039 posts) -
all people over the age of 60 should hand in their guns to the government. It's not like they will be any help if the government starts oppressing the people.
#197 Posted by lamprey263 (23096 posts) -

Damn, itchy triger finger much. People really should be trained how to use a gun before being allowed to purchase one

The_Gaming_Baby
he was ex-military, so I don't imagine that was the issue
#198 Posted by Matthew-first (3007 posts) -

Uh-Merry-Khan's

#199 Posted by o0squishy0o (2754 posts) -

The most striking thing from this piece is that of the initial reaction. Unless you are in an incredibly rough and dangerous area, there would be no though of "quick I need to get a weapon and threaten the people outside". Madness, and again, another life lost by the use of a weapon that is meant to be used as "protection".

God bless the United States and all those clever people in it.

#200 Posted by tenaka2 (17019 posts) -

[QUOTE="The_Gaming_Baby"]

Damn, itchy triger finger much. People really should be trained how to use a gun before being allowed to purchase one

lamprey263

he was ex-military, so I don't imagine that was the issue

the military teach people how to kill, it could have assisted.