Do you agree that we need to love ourselves more?

The way I have come to see it that concept is untrue.

We each love and cherish ourselves a great deal. Someone who claims to hate himself (or herself) only hates that situation that himself is in and because he actually loves himself he only wants things to improve for himself. Like a wise man called Dave Hunt once said, if they really hated themselves they would rather persist in that state of unhappiness and not wish for better things. After all, if you really hated someone you would in your hatred only wish bad things for them.

Even a person who wants to kill themselves only does so because he is greatly disappointed in the bad state (whatever that maybe) of himself and wishes better for himself (or herself). He wishes to end the torment that is beloved self is in by killing himself thus ending the pain of himself.

What do you think?

first off, who is saying that we need to love ourselves more

have you taken a good look around as of late, it's not a lack of love for oneself i'm seeing, i dunno' about you guys

that put aside, you seem to present a fairly agreeable point

Here is a link from the Huffington Post

Here is from google.

You might not notice it unless you look for it but it is out there.

Edit: And I agree with you.

I don't think it's so much the need to love yourself more but I do think some people should be more accepting of themselves and their limitations. Personally I sometimes have this ridiculous self-imposed rule of no failures allowed, even though I would find it utterly moronic to apply that rule to anyone else but myself. Why do I feel that it's ok for other people to fall short and I don't think less of them for it but if it happens to me I can't be that benevolent?

Also, I think everybody needs to decide for themselves what they should and shouldn't do. This "we should" when pertaining to the sense of self is always off, no matter what.

@lumzi32: *reads content of links*

people man /smh

'I think everybody needs to decide for themselves what they should and shouldn't do. This "we should" when pertaining to the sense of self is always off, no matter what.'

^ qft

should I love myself,no!,should we love ourselves,still no mi caro, living condition matters,who had friends but doesn't love himself? that's where it is,I became infamous after what happened in the old school a few years back. I nearly kill someone with a very sharp metallic ruler,that's when I started to hate myself.

@korvus: I think it is because when we fail we recognize we are falling short of some standard. Of course, the problem is no matter how hard we try we are going to keep falling short and we can't help but keep beating up ourselves over it because there is a sense of hopelessness. We try hard to do the right thing but inevitably we fail. We know it is wrong but we feel inadequate, not up the challenge in many cases. We can't escape from doing the right thing but we can't measure up either. We are stuck.

Deciding what you personally should and shouldn't do is probably insufficient. There has to be an accepted general standard and in someway there already is in form of a conscience. We all know it is wrong to steal even though we suppress that knowledge and do it anyway. Same goes for lying, murdering etc. I believe that conscience is a reflection of a higher standard. The standard of our Creator.

I am honestly going through some things that make me feel like a poor ambassador of Christianity due to some things going in my life but I urge you to look through a Bible (recommend the King James Version) particularly the four Gospels and Epistles (letters) of the various Aposostles (Peter, John, James etc and Paul's various epistles to the various Churches (Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians etc).

I'd also strong recommend checking out sites like thebereancall.org if you have found some of the ideas I have expressed here interesting (Dave Hunt, the man I mention founded the ministry). Answersingenesis.org is great too though I am not quite as confident in them (haven't been following them as long and haven't been able to verify everything I have heard).

I would strong recommend you give the bible a good honest look. I neglected it at first but am now in a position where I am unable to read it very much at all.

I think you don't hate yourself but you hate what you did. You think why did I do that. You wish better for yourself. This is proof that you love yourself. It's something like that.

You still take care of yourself. Give yourself nice things. Eat nice food. Play nice games. Watch nice movies etc.

Not that I am praising self-ism. I am just point out the fact that we all love ourselves already. At this point my understanding gets a little shakier but at the very least we should be less focused on loving ourselves (if we should even love our selves at all) and more interested in loving others. I know I personally probably don't do this even nearly enough but it is what I should do.

what I did is what's shaping me now,I once was a madman at school because of being a bully object.I swung a deadly weapon as a kid trying to kill that bully,then I realized that it should not happen that way,but it's too late,the damage's done,I can't go back, you see, if you hate yourself as a kid,you might or might not know who you are right now,if all of these didn't happen,then it's all love for me and you,growing up facing a challenge is a test of personal faith,I don't believe in myself as a kid,so I must have time to find a better way to enjoy life

Wanting to be different in certain aspects (physical, personality... whatever) doesn't mean I don't love myself. It's true some people should love themselves more, but to say we should all... It doesn't make any sense to begin with: the guy who treats cats cruelly sure should love cats more, but the lady on the fourth floor with 17 of 'em could use a little less love for cats... Not sure if the analogy makes sense.

@ianhh6: What you're trying to say is that people have weird relationships with their cats, right? (Just messing with you)

I didn't say we should love ourselves more. I said we all love ourselves already and that we don't need to love ourselves anymore than we do. I also said that we don't hate ourselves even when we hate what we are going through. My worry and sympathy for myself in that stress proves that I love myself. Not that I should love myself but that I do.

Yeah, I get your argument, and for the most part I agree (though I believe there can be people who genuinely hate themselves, be it for what they've done or what they're like). My issue is with the notion that "we all just need to love ourselves more", which is something I've seen around the internet recently. It's a stupid statement that doesn't take into account the various different types of people in the world and assumes we all have self-esteem issues, which is sorta offensive. A statement like this assumes way to much about people and is ultimately pointless.

So like you say, TC, I love myself plenty, and I'll decide how much to love myself. Anyone who tells me I should love myself more in an attempt to sound deep and feely can suck it.

y u do dis 2 mi

When it comes to loving/hating myself I'm quite the hypocrite.

Well, the Christian will say the problem is self.

If you will read nothing else I post I encourage you to read this newsletter at the Berean Call site. Below are the first four paragraphs (excluding the biblical quotes at the top of the actual linked newsletter).

Incredibly, the first sin of those whom God created took place in a perfectly holy environment: heaven. That would seem to be incomprehensible, given what Scripture tells us about heaven, the dwelling place of God. Just as astonishing, Adam and Eve, who were also in a perfect environment and had yet to know sin, were seduced by the same sin as Lucifer ("light bearer"), later called Satan ("adversary") and "that old serpent" (Revelation:12:9; 20:2).

Scripture doesn't tell us specifically what was in the hearts and minds of Lucifer and Adam that prompted them to sin; regarding Eve, however, we get a little more insight. She "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis:3:6). One thing, however, becomes obvious concerning all three of these created beings: they chose self over God. That is the bottom line of all sin.

Again, it all began in Heaven with Lucifer. His "I will's" are all about self--from self-improvement to self-esteem to self-exaltation to self-deification. That progression inevitably leads to two other selfisms: self-delusion and self-destruction. Satan, being completely self-deceived, and perhaps looking for more support to prove his "I will be like the most High" thesis, brought his lie to earth, where he seduced Eve with the offer that she also could be "as gods."

Godhood as a goal for humanity is the Adversary's religion, and it will culminate with a man who is possessed by Satan himself. As we see in2 Thessalonians:2:4, the Antichrist "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." This may be the only way the Devil can achieve his ultimate objective of having the whole world worship him. The very thought that he could entice the Lord, his Creator, to "fall down and worship" him (Matthew:4:9) demonstrates not only his egotistic ambition but also just how self-absorbed and self-deceived he is. This is a major trait of humanity as well.

@lumzi32: I don't much see the relevance of religion in this discussion.

In Denmark, we use to have this saying: "Du skal ikke tro at du er noget," which roughly translates into "don't think that you're special."

Obviously, it's a bad idea to raise your children without self-esteem, so we did our best to "combat" this "ancient" paradigm (derived from some old-ass book noone in their right mind would want to read) and having succeeded, what did we achieve?

Reality TV ;)

Stay humble folks. Don't hate yourselves, but don't become attention whores either.

My whole concept that we already love ourselves innately, came from that site. From that specific author (Dave Hunt). When you mentioned self esteem I thought it was intensely relevant since he also has something to say on that as well and anything I say would be a poor copy of what he has originally said.

I dont think its about loving oneself but understanding oneself.

People go through life largely unaware of the millions of different directions their life could take, they tend to take the advice of friends, relatives, trends in society etc at a young age and to an extent follow that advice. Then they get older become more self aware and if they are lucky, they are educated and motivated enough that they can change paths and do something they desire with their lives. The other people dont, they get stuck in the monotonous grind. This could be regarding partners, work, living arrangements, anything. We learn to listen to the advice of others long before we develop the confidence to do what we desire. Long before we fully understand what we desire.

Its not about loving or hating yourself or anyone else for that matter. Its about establishing what makes you happy in life and insuring that happiness is as frequent and fulfilling as possible, or else your just wasting your fucking time watching the clock wind down.

Telling someone to love themselves is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. What you need to do is ask them what makes them happy and why they have not done anything about it yet. Thats why I have immense compassion for those who hate their situation and are trying to improve it and absolutely zero for people who bitch and moan about not meeting women despite the fact they have not spoken to one for several years.

Ah. I see what you mean, though to believe having a decent self-esteem is the first step towards delusion and destruction is kinda far fetched. You don't need self-deification to believe you're worth something.

Maybe I didn't understand that extract though, could be.

That's why I recommend reading the newsletter if you have the time. In fact there are many great things to read there if you are interested at all.

Here is another excerpt.

Self rules in the heart of every person, even at times among new creatures in Christ. Satan has not missed any opportunity to entice the world into seeking his delusionary prize of godhood. The idea that man could become a god, or part of God, or that he is a god but doesn't yet realize his divinity, may seem farfetched to some people, but that's because they are simply unaware of how prevalent this belief is. Furthermore, from a biblical perspective, the criterion for being a god is rather simple. Everyone who has not submitted to Jesus Christ and has not been reconciled to God through faith in Christ's finished sacrifice as payment for his sins qualifies as a god--that is, an autonomous, or self-governing, being who has elevated self over his Creator . As Dave Hunt has noted, "The basic cause of the many problems in the world today is not that man fails to recognize his godhood but rather that there are about seven billion gods on this planet, each one doing his or her own thing."

Here is yet another.

Fulfilled biblical prophecy is irrefutable proof that God's Word is exactly that, and we can easily recognize what He said would come to pass when it does. The Lord will have raptured us out of this world before the Antichrist declares himself to be God, so we won't be around for that event. However, there is a verse related to self-deification that has so much evidence, no reasonable person can deny its present-day fulfillment. In 2 Timothy:3:1-2 the Apostle Paul writes, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves...." Although humans have been enamored with themselves since the Garden of Eden, there is no generation in history that has been so preoccupied with self, even to the point of making self the key to solving all of mankind's problems. Here is a litany of popular selfist concepts and activities: self-esteem, self-image, self-confidence, self-acceptance, self-forgiveness, self-assertion, self-improvement, positive self-regard, positive self-talk, positive affirmation, positive mental attitude, positive thinking, possibility thinking, human potential, etc., etc. The prerequisite for all of these is self-love , the cornerstone of humanistic psychology and, consequently, because of the overwhelming influence of so-called Christian psychology, a false but popular doctrine among evangelicals.

@lumzi32: I like these excerpts, according to this guy I'm a God :D

But for real I think the discussion of self-esteem and its importance is pretty irrelevant to any discussion relating to the Bible or religious institutions.

I think you're suffering from depression. Gotta admit, you impressed me right there. I always thought I hated myself, but what you (or that Dave dude of yours) said is the elegant truth.

Just to be clear (though it seems unnecessary) it doesn't mean you become an actual god (even within the scripture) it means you have elevated yourself as supreme in your heart usurping the rightful place of your creator. You become prideful in essence. Puffed up. Which is the real problem of self. No, we don't need more self esteem as we probably have an abundance. We don't need more pride. What we need more of is humility (not that I have achieved the mark by any means but it is what we, I need, nonetheless).

It impressed me the first time I heard it too. thebereancall.org if you are interested.

@lumzi32: Please calm down with mentioning the same website repeatedly. Mention it once in context and it's no problem, start mentioning a website every other post and I'll have to consider it advertisement. You already posted it in this thread, you already posted it in another thread, I get you are trying to spread information that is important to you, but advertisement is against these forums' rules.

I apologize. I won't mention it again.

@lumzi32: It's no problem, it's just that you're not a regular poster here and if you overdo it with the links people will just start dismissing you as an advertiser and I'm sure you don't want that.

I realize that. I over did it and got carried away. I got afraid that he might somehow miss the link. This won't become a an occurrence. I'll keep it in check.

Yes, because...

You will die someday

Hurt people hurt people.

I think some people could love themselves more. As they say, you've got to love yourself before you can love others.

Actually, many people DO take comfort in misery and gravitate away from situations that bring them pleasure. When something good happens to them, they feel guiltty about not deserving it instead of simply being happy about it. There actually is (for many people) a happiness that is dferived from being unhappy. I'm not saying that applies to all or even most people, but a lot of people really DO hate themselves and go out of their way to make themselves suffer. Self-loathing really is a thing. It might be stupid or irrational or whatever, but I don't think anything good comes from pretending that it doesn't exist.

Only if the self is worth loving otherwise no not really. If anything, we need more people hating themselves considering the disproportionate preponderance of wretched and abominable souls out there who are either too obstinate, too coward or simply too debauched to face the reality of their state of ruin and descent. Maybe such hatred would compel them to embark on a journey of self betterment and eventually redeem them.

I am not talking pleasure. I doubt I am even talking about happiness.

Take a person who cuts themselves. In a quick search on google I found this... poem, I guess.

This is poem of someone who cuts themselves not because they hate themselves but because they love themselves and wish better for themselves. The person wishes he/she was not unloved, not alone, not 'stupid,' not fat, not brokenhearted etc. Even when she/he says things like "for being alive" it seems clear he/she wishes things were better. If they really hate themselves they would be happy that they were not dead and that they continued to stay alive and endure their miserable condition. She/he would be happy she was fat, stupid and generally suffering. From what I understand people cut themselves to dull the emotional pain through physical pain. They are trying alleviate a greater internal pain by focus on preferable, in their eyes, physical pain. Also, you can be unhappy about what you have done to yourself, yes. But that only proves you love yourself because you are expressing concern for yourself.

I have gone through phases where I 'hate' myself (though my situation maybe fairly unique) but I doubt I have ever not loved myself. Heck, I am sure some people enjoy pain in some strange way. I think that people have different things they enjoy, however strange those things maybe.

I could hate my nose, eyes and face. I could hate my personality and unmasculine nature. However, these don't prove I hate myself. If I hated myself I wouldn't be unhappy that I looked ugly. I would be glad.

Admittedly, this part of being glad causes me a bit of confusion but I believe the general idea is still correct.

You talk about people finding happiness in unhappiness. If they hated themselves they would deny themselves even that pleasure.

Your guilt point stumped for a while but here is what I concluded (not a perfect answer but..). Feeling bad when something good happens to you doesn't mean you hate yourself. In fact when people feel guilty they probably wish they didn't feel so. They'd do anything to make the feeling go away. They might feel they deserve the guilt but they would wish they didn't. No one actively pursues the feeling of guilt. So feeling guilty when something good happens to you, while unpleasant is not really self loathing or at least not hating yourself.