Do You Accept Jesus's Gift Of Salvation, Believing That He Died On The Cross And Rose Again For Your SIns?

Or anything that is termed a year newer than it's manufacture date. :P

He very well may have died for our sins, and I am willing to believe this. I am not willing to believe that the only way to "heaven" is through him, that is utter bullshit. We are ALL going to the same place when we die, regardless of our beliefs and/or actions. This i have faith in, the church and religion is what I have zero faith in.

Heaven is not a place, it's a state of being.

you see him rise everyday around 6 a.m..

you will see him "coming in the clouds" and he is the "light of the world".

jesus people, how many clues do you need?

Yes I do believe in God/Jesus, but for the purposes of this thread I'm going to post this.

Sorry TC, didn`t read any of that. I already got my dose of fantasy, thanks.

lol

Ummmm, do quotes now automatically cut out images? That sucks.

Any deity who would condemn me for failing to kiss his ass instead of commending me for a life well lived is not one I wish to follow.

jesus didnt die for our sins. what sense does it make that a man would die for the crimes committed by others.

anyways everyone goes to heaven no matter what kind of life they lived.

i will say this thought the energy that you put out is the same energy that you will receive so think about that the next time you decide to do anything.

yeaaaah...it totally doesnt works like that. If you're gonna hate on something, you should try to understand it first.

You'd be surprised at how many actually think and act upon that very idea.

Bunch of atheists in OT.

I know, it doesn't stops being stupid though.

@Riverwolf007: Ya most don't notice the similarities with literally 100's of religions that worshiped some form of the sun to their own religion. Christianity is just one of many that follows the same exact stories and parables as those before it just in a different language with different names and place.

@farrell2k: Ya ghosts are another one that I don't understand. Maybe it's because I've delved into the psychedelic world a bit so my perception of the way things are has changed considerably. And ghosts just don't make any damn sense. Ya we can tell the chemical composition of the surface of a planet light years away but we don't have the tech to find evidence of ghosts. People I feel just believe what they've grown up knowing. To most it doesn't even accrue to them to think it through rationally.

The idea is that Jesus died for the sins of everyone who was alive and who'd be alive, you included.

Jesus is not God, Jesus is the son of God. And that was just his incarnation, Jesus' soul never died.

Again, it was Jesus incarnation the one which was crucified.

Really I understand that Christianity might not be everybody's cup of tea, but people like you don't even remotely try to understand extremely basic principles before bashing it.

No, as I am an atheist

Jesus is both God and the son of God. This is exegetical fact in practically every denomination of Christianity. Particular groups have different ways of interpreting it.

True or not true: evangelical Christians believe that a monster, a murderer, an inmate on death row, if in his dying moments truly in his heart accepts Jesus and renounces sin, then that freak goes to heaven.

The concept of original sin simply states that because of Adam's transgression, humans are prone to sinning.

I don't know why you'd find "the sins of everyone who'd be alive" to be "absurd". It's simply an "Insurance", it's not guaranteed that you'll sin in X way. What I find absurd is that atheists somehow believe that God whispers directly to every Christian out there and so every single Christian knows God's will or even the way he operates. I don't know, I'm talking about what I believe. Since I believe God to be an all-knowing being then I believe that we have several paths to take, each with its set of consequences, and that's the concept of free will for me.

I have not ever, in my entire life heard any Christian claiming that Jesus was God incarnate. the term used is "The Son incarnate", which is different.

Dear Lord...you're like a walking cliche bag of militant atheism...

Jesus is The Son, member of the trinity, the trinity is God (and yes I'm aware of the origin of the concept of the Trinity) You can't say that Jesus is God because Jesus is not the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Yes, that is the concept of redemption. Nobody denied that. @ferrari2001 though said that one can just say "OK I believe in Jesus, it's now time to kill and do anything I want!" And that's obviously not how it works, if you say you accept Jesus then you should start behaving like Him, saying you love and accept Jesus as a way to cover your ass while you go on a killing spree is obviously not going to help you. Amazing how many atheists dont understand that basic concept.

My point being, in the hypothetical, that murderer now has not really started behaving like Jesus, gets the chair, and goes to heaven anyway. So belief is placed over action. Not in my book.

I know you are trying to say this right, but philosophically, Jesus is God. You even said it yourself.

Jesus = Son = Trinity = God

To an outsider looking in, the concept of the Trinity is entirely fucked up. Jesus is the Son of God, but he is also God due to being a member of the Trinity, which in turn differentiates them as separate beings despite being of the same source. To someone versed in any level of philosophical understanding, this makes no sense.

Lol, no. I'm actually a sane person.

But you're ignoring the fact that the trinity is one God, not 3 divided gods, so the son does not equals God. I understand that this concept is one heck of a spaghetti though.

My point being, in the hypothetical, that murderer now has not really started behaving like Jesus, gets the chair, and goes to heaven anyway. So belief is placed over action. Not in my book.

Not everyone's cup of tea.

Your conclusion is flawed. You say the Trinity is "one God, not 3 divided" but the "son does not equal God". Its a complete contradiction in terms. If the Trinity is "one God" then Jesus (the Son), God (the Father) and the Holy Spirit are all God. If Jesus is not God, then the Trinity is three separate beings, or "three divided".

It's a logic trap that I cannot for the life of me understand how people can reconcile.

OK, Mr Euphoria, that's good for me.

Dont know why you're bothered with it though.

The sum of 5, 4 and 1 equals 10. Yet you don't go around saying that 5 = 10 because a sum can give that result. Maybe it's my language barrier, but I just dont see where the contradiction is.

But you wouldn't say that the sum of 5, 4 and 1 is made up of only one number. They are three different numbers.

Since this thread is still active I'd like to politely ask Christians if they could explain the whole "Jesus died for my sins" thing...it's been forever since I've read the Bible and I wasn't exactly taking notes so I'm kind of fuzzy on the reasons. Jesus dying on the cross didn't stop people from sinning or being punished for those sins in the afterlife, so what did it accomplish?

You are trying so hard. I can see the gears turning in your head from here.

It's not a language barrier, it's a logic barrier. You've learned this "truth" that the Trinity is not three separate things, but God and Jesus are not the same (i.e. Jesus is not God in your words). To most Christians, they don't try to make this leap. They just accept that Jesus and God are the same thing (God) and the Trinity is not three separate beings, but one defined three different ways.

You are making an incorrect assertion that most Christians don't agree with. Jesus is both God and the Son of God. It's the power of faith that gives them the means to understand this logical conundrum. To someone outside of the belief system, looking in, it appears to be a complete mess of a conclusion. How could the Trinity be one being if it is defined in three separate ways?

As for your example, as as toast has already pointed out, 5, 4 and 1 are separate numbers that are defined all different ways. I really hope you didn't learn this explanation from your religious authority, because it only does bad things to your conclusion (that Jesus is not God).

I am an outsider looking in, and I've personally seen many Christians here say that Jesus is God and is the Son of God. It doesn't make sense but that's what they believe. At least their conclusion is sound in that they define the Trinity as one "thing" and that all aspects of it are the same thing in different forms. You stated that Jesus is not God but his Son. If that's not what you meant to say then it was an error and we will move on.

@lightleggy: I can't even conceive how you can convince yourself that such a being exists. If he's all-knowing, then why doesn't he just stop people from killing each other? Why didn't God stop the holocaust? I thought he was "all-good"? Christians believe that god is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful. Is that right? Because an all-powerful being is illogical and does not make any sense.

Under TC's theology it most certainly does work like that. In fact many evangelical Christians hold the illogical viewpoint that upon accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and being baptized you are saved and will go to heaven. If you happen to do despicable works after that moment it doesn't matter because you've been saved. At the time of professing faith you may genuinely change your life around and following in the footsteps of Christ. But what happens if a year down the road you begin to ignore his teachings and do whatever you want? You've been saved so those actions do not matter when it comes to your salvation. Human works in this particular theology play no role in salvation. If however those evil works do play a role, then you weren't really saved and the professing Christ as your Lord and savior actually played no role in your salvation. Remember there are 30,000 protestant denominations all with slightly different belief systems. Your particular theology may not be the same theology that TC professes, and it isn't the theology I believe. Living a good life is what is important, not necessarily what you profess.

So uhm you want to do the same thing those bible thumpers are doing (I'd just like to say that I believe in evolution, and the standard cosmological model or whatever its name is in english), taking away their rights to do anything simply because they believe in a deity?.

Not every Christian is the same, I don't go around shouting "gay man should hang they should not have rights!!!" (And I think its despicable that the same people who say stuff like that usually go around sinning in every chance they get, sometimes they even go as far as watching lesbian porn, so homosexuality is wrong unless you get a boner from it). I also think it's a huge problem when religious zealots get in political positions, but thats how the system works, sucks I know, but cant do anything about it because it would just lead to a different problem.

Yeah okay bud I'm not smart enough for you, please dont lose your time arguing with a silly guy like me.

Bro, i'm not JRR Tolkien explaining how middle earth works. I dont know why God rolls the way he rolls, I cant answer any of those questions, no idea why you think otherwise.

You're all faggots that are going to hell

I've already accepted this and my life is like 100x better

Before the crucifixion of Christ, a person had to make a holocaust to be forgiven. Jesus washed aways the sins of mankind (but that wouldnt stop it from getting dirty again of course, it's a person choice to sin again or not)

After Jesus died and resurrected, He left the gifts of the Holy Spirit (and His presence included), so we could all be saved by grace and faith, rather than having to present a holocaust (Since Jesus is often called "The lamb", its meant to be an analogy with how a lamb would be sacrificed at the holocaust.

I'm sorry but you got it completely wrong, please state which Christian denomination thinks that after being baptized, a person is allowed to do absolutely anything and have no consequence and still be granted passage to heaven? None, maybe an obscure sect says that, but no major denomination does. Baptizing cleanses your spirit, you're supposed to be "born again", all your PAST sins are forgiven, but it's not a permanent "get to heaven!" card. If what you say was true, then you'd NEVER see any Christian church saying anything like "Dont sin guys, dont have sex before marriage, dont be in homosexual relationships, dont cheat on your partner". It would just be something along the lines of "So guys, you want to remain abstitent till marriage...OR WOULD YOU JUST LIKE TO BE BAPTIZED AND ATTEND A 30 PEOPLE ORGY AFTERWARDS???!!! BECAUSE AFTER BEING BAPTIZED YOU ARE 100% GUARANTEED TO GET TO HEAVEN".

I'm not sure if this is in the bible or not, but this was explained to me in this simple way: The act of baptism writes your name down in the book of life, but it is not permanent ink, it can be errased if you just throw away everything and decide to return to your old ways.

If you're being serious about thinking thats how it works, I feel really bad for you, thats being wrong on a completely different level.

@lightleggy Let me ask you this.. Can an Atheist go to heaven without ever having professed Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior? Can a Muslim? A Jew? A Buddhist?

Thats Georges Lemaitre, a man who "believed in magic" (he was a priest in fact). And also the man who first came up with the big bang theory, you know, the entire foundation of the cosmological model?.

And this is Gregor Mendel, AKA father of genetics.Also a frair.

So these 2 men, who "believed in magic", are also responsible for 2 of the most complicated scientific fields out there.

Are you saying that their words are not to be trusted because of their beliefs? Since you just said that a person who believes in magic should not be trusted to take any rational decision. And both genetics and astronomy seem pretty rational to me.

I've read the bible btw, though I agree many have not.

For the last time: I am not God, I do not know how God thinks, I dont know why every atheist has the idea that every Christian knows absolutely everything about how God thinks and acts. As if they were just asking questions about the star trek universe to the guy who created star trek.

If you ask ME for my personal opinion: I'd say that I believe God would make a judgement based on their lifedeeds. But that is MY OPINION, not anything factual. Jesus did said that He was the only way to reach heaven though.

btw I'm not an atheist, just playing devils advocate. And I absolutely agree with you. It's not your profession in Jesus Christ that matters but how you act and what you do.

As for my other post, I'm just projecting the normal American Christian attitude towards religion. Most of them want a religion in which they can be "saved" but at the same time live their lives how they see fit. Hardcore Baptists and Pentecostals in particular live by the saved by faith alone mentality, which removes works totally from the picture. The Topic Creator in particular gave the impression that works were meaningless and that was who I was responding to.

@lightleggy: So you don't understand why God does what he does. You just assume he's the one doing it and you assume he's all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing. That doesn't seem like a very good reason to believe something exists.

So you firmly believe in a god, you believe he's the one behind everything, you don't know why he does what he does, you don't understand him, and you can't prove that he exists.

Yes it's a shame to see how many people simply try to twist it to their favor, it also allows them to live by some sickly double standard.

It's good enough for me. I cant prove God's existance to you. I dont understand Him but I still choose to follow Him (even though I do fail a lot at it). I've had plenty of personal experiences which made me pretty confident about His existance. I completely understand why you would choose not to believe, and like I said, I cant prove anything to you.

@lightleggy: Would it be too much of a stretch for me to ask for examples of such personal experiences? I'd understand if you didn't want to, I'm just curious.

Not sure I agree with your logic as this is what we do in chemistry.

Aspirin is C9H8O4. 3 elements the same in the sense of being elements, but each different in their own way, and when combined in a certain way = aspirin.

C,H, and O are each a part of aspirin, but each is not aspirin separately, nor is each the exact same as the other, and yet when combined in a specific way they are aspirin.

It's worth nothing that when combined in a different way, C2H4O2, they are also vinegar.

Also, God is an invention.