did obama screwed up by not picking hillary?

I like the Biden pick. Obama took the major complaints thrown at him by his critics (namely experience and foreign policy), and found a VP that's strong in those areas.Oleg_Huzwog

but the way it looks, this isnt about having the stronger policy. the way it looks is that its more of a popularity contest and if that so, hillary pick would have won this thing

but the way it looks, this isnt about having the stronger policy. the way it looks is that its more of a popularity contest and if that so, hillary pick would have won this thing

virtuas

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Among conservatives, there is no political family more despised than the Clintons. While Clinton may have swung some votes towards Obama, she'd also encourage a greater voter turnout among the Republican base. Voters who once were thinking about not voting due to disappointment of the moderate McCain clinching the nomination instead of a more conservative candidate like Huckabee, would be showing up at the polling booths for the simple reason of keeping another Clinton away from the White House.

well, reports says that mccain is leading obama by several point in the polls because of palin. so do you think obama messed up by not picking hillary? virtuas

all i've seen is statistical tie. as for not picking hillary. the polls of women i've seen have shown they aren't any better for mccain than they were before palin

well, reports says that mccain is leading obama by several point in the polls because of palin.virtuas

How do know its because of Palin?

Personally, I'm very happy with the Biden pick. I always enjoyed listening to him in the debates.

No, nothing polarizes the Democratic party and unites the Republicans behind McCain like a Clinton with at chance at the White House. Hell in my home state Republicans re-registered their party so that they could vote for Clinton in the primaries so that McCain would have a sure shot in the Nov. General Election.hokies1313

I considered doing that for Romney because I knew that the Baptists and Evangelicals would never elect a Mormon, but then I decided there was no chance of getting him through the primaries.

If Palin was a boost for McCain then Im worried about AmericaSaintLeonidas

It was the convention. I'm sure of it.

Please God be the convention.

If Palin was a boost for McCain then Im worried about AmericaSaintLeonidas

A young rising star within the party who energizes the party's base voters... sounds awfully familiar.

[QUOTE="hokies1313"]No, nothing polarizes the Democratic party and unites the Republicans behind McCain like a Clinton with at chance at the White House. Hell in my home state Republicans re-registered their party so that they could vote for Clinton in the primaries so that McCain would have a sure shot in the Nov. General Election.Sajo7

I considered doing that for Romney because I knew that the Baptists and Evangelicals would never elect a Mormon, but then I decided there was no chance of getting him through the primaries.

Well that is the thing. Where as Clinton had a chance at her party nomination, Romney never really had a shot at it, the Republican base is too against Mormonism. I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, just a fact.

no...the dems messed up by not choosing Hillary as their candidate...Omni-Slash

I tend to disagree. As someone pointed out earlier, there's no more polarizing name in the Democratic party than Clinton. Republicans would be out in droves to vote against her. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that several of the Republican strategists wanted Clinton to win the nomination, though that's hardly conclusive.

Biden is an okay pick, but there are a few problems.

1. He's not a very sexy pick. Obviously, this isn't a big deal for the informed voter, but it IS a big deal for the greater voting populace.
2. He's still seen as a pretty traditional New England Liberal. Not as much as a Kennedy would be, or as Kerry was portrayed, but the idea is still out there.
3. He really only comforts the party base. Most polls I've seen show him having very little effect on independent voters who are either registered or likely to vote.

On the other hand, he does directly combat the view that Obama's ticket doesn't have any leadership, so that does help. It's also entirely possible that he'll destroy Palin in the debates, much more likely than vice-a-versa, I'd say. But only time will tell.

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]If Palin was a boost for McCain then Im worried about AmericaOleg_Huzwog

A young rising star within the party who energizes the party's base voters... sounds awfully familiar.

Irony, FTW?

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]If Palin was a boost for McCain then Im worried about AmericaOleg_Huzwog

A young rising star within the party who energizes the party's base voters... sounds awfully familiar.

Lol. Still, days after the convention, Palin is getting hated on. Not surprising, seeing as all the negative comments are from the Democrats who are already staunchly PrObama. (Terrible Pun!)

The Republicans are pretty much solidly behind this pick. She has great support from the Republican base that John McCain didn't really have.

Well that is the thing. Where as Clinton had a chance at her party nomination, Romney never really had a shot at it, the Republican base is too against Mormonism. I'm not saying if that is right or wrong, just a fact.

hokies1313

Yeah there was no chance he was getting the VP. I was hoping McCain would've pick Lieberman, of course he is pro-choice. So I'm stuck with someone like Palin being so close to the presidency.

[QUOTE="virtuas"]but the way it looks, this isnt about having the stronger policy. the way it looks is that its more of a popularity contest and if that so, hillary pick would have won this thing

Oleg_Huzwog

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Among conservatives, there is no political family more despised than the Clintons. While Clinton may have swung some votes towards Obama, she'd also encourage a greater voter turnout among the Republican base. Voters who once were thinking about not voting due to disappointment of the moderate McCain clinching the nomination instead of a more conservative candidate like Huckabee, would be showing up at the polling booths for the simple reason of keeping another Clinton away from the White House.

the clinton (bill) is one of the greatest president in recent history, i dont know where are the hate coming from. we had peace, economic growth, all the good american dream and yet they are still hated than bush. lol

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="virtuas"]but the way it looks, this isnt about having the stronger policy. the way it looks is that its more of a popularity contest and if that so, hillary pick would have won this thing

virtuas

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Among conservatives, there is no political family more despised than the Clintons. While Clinton may have swung some votes towards Obama, she'd also encourage a greater voter turnout among the Republican base. Voters who once were thinking about not voting due to disappointment of the moderate McCain clinching the nomination instead of a more conservative candidate like Huckabee, would be showing up at the polling booths for the simple reason of keeping another Clinton away from the White House.

the clinton (bill) is one of the greatest president in recent history, i dont know where are the hate coming from. we had peace, economic growth, all the good american dream and yet they are still hated than bush. lol

Nobody said that fervent hate was logical. Yeah the Clintons are about as centrist as it gets. I think that hit a bit close to home and upset a lot of Republicans more than someone on the other end of the political spectrum would.

I think Palin was a good pick. Solid Republican, works well in tandum with McCain.

That being said, I'd have to agree that Lieberman would have been an interesting pick to say the least. Definitely pros and cons for both. I would have liked to see Lieberman on the ticket, it would have been a real shake up in the politcal world. Palin really did help with the republican base, but I think that McCain having to "apease", if you will, the Republican base is a load of crap. All he really had to say was "Oh you don't like who I picked? Who are you going to vote for instead, Obama?"

That isn't to say Obama is a bad person or blah blah blah, but honestly, who were the "conservative base" going to vote for if not McCain? They have no outlet, McCain was stuck with them and they were stuck with McCain.

I think Palin was a good pick. Solid Republican, works well in tandum with McCain.

That being said, I'd have to agree that lieverman would have been an interesting pick to say the least. Definitely pros and cons for both. I would have liked to see Lieberman on the ticket, it would have been a real shake up in the politcal world. Palin really did help with the republican base, but I think that McCain having to "apease", if you will, the Republican base is a load of crap. All he really had to say was "Oh you don't like who I picked? Who are you going to vote for instead, Obama?"

That isn't to say Obama is a bad person or blah blah blah, but honestly, who were the "conservative base" going to vote for if not McCain? They have no outlet, McCain was stuck with them and they were stuck with McCain.

hokies1313

Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.

is anyone worried that a governor of 7,000 ppl will lead u.s.a.? virtuas

I think you forgot a couple of zeros.

Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
duxup

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

[QUOTE="duxup"]Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
hokies1313

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

I think McCain would have told the RNC party leadership who he was going to pick, and they would have told him that Lieberman would not get the votes needed to be nominated. Not wanting to go thru a big public nomination fight McCain would have then picked someone else, maybe angrily, impulsively, and some one other than suggestions made to him by the RNC...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened.

[QUOTE="hokies1313"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
duxup

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

I think McCain would have told the RNC party leadership who he was going to pick, and they would have told him that Lieberman would not get the votes needed to be nominated. Not wanting to go thru a big public nomination fight McCain would have then picked someone else, maybe angrily, impulsively, and some one other than suggestions made to him by the RNC...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened.

When you put it that way, it does sound quite possible. Hopefully one day we'll be able to make picks for VP across party lines. I think a McCain-Lieberman Ticket would have been nearly unstoppable.

When you put it that way, it does sound quite possible. Hopefully one day we'll be able to make picks for VP across party lines. I think a McCain-Lieberman Ticket would have been nearly unstoppable.

hokies1313

I think a pair of centrist candidates would have better luck. I'm not sure a ying yang candidates presents much other than a lot to dislike and like at the same time depending on where you stand. Someone standing in the middle would be less confusing than two on either end.

Other than liking each other and on McCain's bid for president Lieberman and McCain don't agree with each other THAT much, and I'm not sure Lieberman would last long following orders in the VP spot. He has shown he will do what he wants regardless of what his party says. That's part of the reason I don't think any party would pick him for such a post.

Hillary had 18 million votes in the primaries. Not picking her was a mistake. Obama was afraid that the Clintons would overshadow his message, but who cares? As long as you win the presidency, you can make the clintons do whatever you want, and Clinton would've helped him win the presidency.

Also, picking Biden directly contradicts Obama's message of "change." Biden has been a senator since Palin was nine. Barack has said we need to "change leadership in washington," and then picks a washington insider who is part of the senate (which has a lower approval rating than Bush).

Moreover, Biden will appeal to Obama supporters, but I don't see him dragging new people in to support Obama. He is male, and he's a talky liberal, just like Obama. Nothing new here.

I dislike Sarah Palin, but I don't think McCain could've made a better choice for himself. People have critized McCain for being old and out of touch, so he got someone who is young, female, and a hockey mom. Palin appeals to an entirely different demographic than stereotypical, old, conservative men.

Hillary had 18 million votes in the primaries. Not picking her was a mistake. Obama was afraid that the Clintons would overshadow his message, but who cares? As long as you win the presidency, you can make the clintons do whatever you want, and Clinton would've helped him win the presidency.

Also, picking Biden directly contradicts Obama's message of "change." Biden has been a senator since Palin was nine. Barack has said we need to "change leadership in washington," and then picks a washington insider who is part of the senate (which has a lower approval rating than Bush).

Etheral_Filcher

Bidan contradicts Obama's message of change? But Hillary wouldn't have?

[QUOTE="Etheral_Filcher"]

Hillary had 18 million votes in the primaries. Not picking her was a mistake. Obama was afraid that the Clintons would overshadow his message, but who cares? As long as you win the presidency, you can make the clintons do whatever you want, and Clinton would've helped him win the presidency.

Also, picking Biden directly contradicts Obama's message of "change." Biden has been a senator since Palin was nine. Barack has said we need to "change leadership in washington," and then picks a washington insider who is part of the senate (which has a lower approval rating than Bush).

duxup

Bidan contradicts Obama's message of change? But Hillary wouldn't have?

She would have too, but not as much as Biden. She is a woman, and there has never been a woman VP, so that is definetly "change." Also, the Clinton's would give Obama a ton of votes. More of Hillary's supporters, and a greater number of women would have voted for Obama if she was his VP pick.

What does Biden do? He appeals to Obama supporters, which doesn't matter because Obama supporters are already going to vote for Obama.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="hokies1313"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
hokies1313

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

I think McCain would have told the RNC party leadership who he was going to pick, and they would have told him that Lieberman would not get the votes needed to be nominated. Not wanting to go thru a big public nomination fight McCain would have then picked someone else, maybe angrily, impulsively, and some one other than suggestions made to him by the RNC...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened.

When you put it that way, it does sound quite possible. Hopefully one day we'll be able to make picks for VP across party lines. I think a McCain-Lieberman Ticket would have been nearly unstoppable.

I strongly disagree. A McCain-Lieberman ticket would actually make the Dems ticket nearly unstoppable. Why? Because Lieberman is pro-choice, anti-gun, and pro-gay marriage. No conservative would ever want to vote for a person who does not share their fundamental values.

I strongly disagree. A McCain-Lieberman ticket would actually make the Dems ticket nearly unstoppable. Why? Because Lieberman is pro-choice, anti-gun, and pro-gay marriage. No conservative would ever want to vote for a person who does not share their fundamental values.

MysticGenie

Conservatives or democrats. Can you imagine Obama picking someone who was pro-life, pro-gun, anti-gay marriage, and anti-stem cell research?

[QUOTE="hokies1313"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="hokies1313"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
MysticGenie

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

I think McCain would have told the RNC party leadership who he was going to pick, and they would have told him that Lieberman would not get the votes needed to be nominated. Not wanting to go thru a big public nomination fight McCain would have then picked someone else, maybe angrily, impulsively, and some one other than suggestions made to him by the RNC...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened.

When you put it that way, it does sound quite possible. Hopefully one day we'll be able to make picks for VP across party lines. I think a McCain-Lieberman Ticket would have been nearly unstoppable.

I strongly disagree. A McCain-Lieberman ticket would actually make the Dems ticket nearly unstoppable. Why? Because Lieberman is pro-choice, anti-gun, and pro-gay marriage. No conservative would ever want to vote for a person who does not share their fundamental values.

[QUOTE="hokies1313"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="hokies1313"]

[QUOTE="duxup"]Even if McCain picked Liberman, I don't believe the Republicans would have voted and allowed it.
MysticGenie

I think there would have been a fight, but in the end I think it would have been a good pick and that enough Republicans would have seen it as a good pick. But you could be correct, they might not have confirmed him as VP.

I think McCain would have told the RNC party leadership who he was going to pick, and they would have told him that Lieberman would not get the votes needed to be nominated. Not wanting to go thru a big public nomination fight McCain would have then picked someone else, maybe angrily, impulsively, and some one other than suggestions made to him by the RNC...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened.

When you put it that way, it does sound quite possible. Hopefully one day we'll be able to make picks for VP across party lines. I think a McCain-Lieberman Ticket would have been nearly unstoppable.

I strongly disagree. A McCain-Lieberman ticket would actually make the Dems ticket nearly unstoppable. Why? Because Lieberman is pro-choice, anti-gun, and pro-gay marriage. No conservative would ever want to vote for a person who does not share their fundamental values.

So would Republicans just not vote? Who else could they possibly vote for?

Obama? Don't make me laugh. Like I said earlier, McCain is stuck with the "conservative base" and they are stuck with him.

She probably would've helped seeing how people are shallow and the shock value of a woman seems to cause more attention then the fact Palin's been in charge of 7500 and now somehow will help lead a nation.GrandTheftHalo

Palin's constituency is approximately 700,000, not too far behind Biden's 850,000. Learning is fun!