Crimea has Voted! Over 80% of Crimea came to vote!

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#1 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

And 93% of Crimea, wants to secede from the Ukraine.

Do you think the EU and the West will respect their democratic vote? or invade them on false pretenses?

#2 Edited by Ring_of_fire (15645 posts) -

Haven't the EU and the US said they won't recognize the vote?

#3 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

Haven't the EU and the US said they won't recognize the vote?

They have, despite the high voter turnout, and such large support for secession.Seems the EU and USA want to be more than the world police.

#4 Edited by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

Its not like they can invade or anything.

I hope the voting process was adequately transparent and maintained integrity. In any case the region has a majority of ethnic Russians so such a high approval rate should not be surprising, even if it was inflated to a certain degree.

Now the EU has to deal with Ukraine...

#5 Posted by thebest31406 (3308 posts) -

Wow. I didn't think the support for annexation would be so high.

As far as a West invasion, my gut tells me it won't happen. Resources are kinda thin. I see them sponsoring coups instead.

#6 Edited by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

Wow. I didn't think the support for annexation would be so high.

As far as a West invasion, my gut tells me it won't happen. Resources are kinda thin. I see them sponsoring coups instead.

Or you know, spreading teh democracy.

#7 Posted by Masculus (2822 posts) -

I'm surprised it wasn't something like 146%. But really, the "West" would only recognize the result if the people had voted no. It won't help to cool the conflict for now.

#8 Posted by one_plum (6328 posts) -

I don't know how big of a role Russia played to affect the outcome. Otherwise, I'd say Crimea has a right for self-determination.

#9 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -
@one_plum said:

I don't know how big of a role Russia played to affect the outcome. Otherwise, I'd say Crimea has a right for self-determination.

Given that the Ukrainian Government was openly gunning down civilians who didn't support them, just a few weeks ago.

It's safe to say, that if Russia played any role, it was protecting Crimea's citizens.

#10 Posted by Chaos_HL21 (5287 posts) -

Did the vote really matter? Russia already controlled the area and there were calls of boycotts by the pro-Ukrainian sides.

#11 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

Ukraine isn't going to let the region join the Russian Federation.

#12 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

@Chaos_HL21: Russia wasn't in control of Crimea or the ukraine, they had soldiers on the border of Crimea and ukraine to prevent any hostility.

Russia is doing no more than what America did for Afghanistan. The difference is Crimea was once a part of Russia, and as we can see, the majority of Crimea supports Russia's actions

#13 Edited by lamprey263 (22666 posts) -

I think people are going to call bullshit on that vote, for starters recent polls conducted show that a majority of Crimean citizens opposed to the idea of joining Russia or separating from Ukraine, so a claim of a 93% support of joining Russia sounds fixed. Secondly, the Prime Minister of Crimea was appointed when Russian military held up Parliament at gunpoint, they appointed the leader of the Russian Unity Party, who only held 3% of Parliament prior to the invasion, to lead the Crimean Parliament; also, he has a violent past with his involvement in organized crime. This sounds totally fixed, this whole situation sounds fixed.

Then again, maybe we missed the issue of the ballot being fixed itself, two options lead to Russian control...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/crimea-vote-join-russia-ballot-no-option_n_4947557.html

#14 Edited by quakeknight1991 (1129 posts) -

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

Dont get me wrong, I support a referendum, but not like this. Withdraw the russian soldiers from Crimea and have OSCE observers make sure the referendum isnt rigged. If the referendum had been done this way the west would actually take it more seriously.

#15 Posted by lamprey263 (22666 posts) -

@one_plum said:

I don't know how big of a role Russia played to affect the outcome. Otherwise, I'd say Crimea has a right for self-determination.

Given that the Ukrainian Government was openly gunning down civilians who didn't support them, just a few weeks ago.

It's safe to say, that if Russia played any role, it was protecting Crimea's citizens.

The ousted pro-Russian Ukraine Prime Minster was responsible for security forces firing on demonstrators, which lead to him fleeing to Russia. Russia is not there to protect its citizens, that's a ruse to send the military in to gain control of the country. They're making a farce out of this whole affair with creating a fake representative government, using Russian military to hold up the Crimean Parliament at gunpoint to appoint its own puppet leader from an unpopular party (LINK), having this fixed vote referendum on Crimean independence or joining Russia when polls show a strong majority support no change and remaining a part of Ukraine.

#16 Posted by deeliman (2344 posts) -

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

Dont get me wrong, I support a referendum, but not like this. Withdraw the russian soldiers from Crimea and have OSCE observers make sure the referendum isnt rigged. If the referendum had been done this way the west would actually take it more seriously.

Basically this.

#17 Posted by uninspiredcup (7557 posts) -

It's bullshit regardless of the count.

#18 Edited by Newhopes (4468 posts) -

Record number of people turned out to vote, and I knew the vote would go this way Crimea is basically Russian so is much of the eastern provinces, but the US and the west won't accept it because ot doesn't suit their needs.

I'll bet money some of the eastern provinces will demand succession now especially after the trouble the western neo-nazis where causing over the last few weeks.

#19 Posted by deeliman (2344 posts) -

@Newhopes said:

Record number of people turned out to vote, and I knew the vote would go this way Crimea is basically Russian so is much of the eastern provinces, but the US and the west won't accept it because ot doesn't suit their needs.

I'll bet money some of the eastern provinces will demand succession now especially after the trouble the western neo-nazis where causing over the last few weeks.

So it doesn't sound fishy to you that even though only 60% of the Crimean population is Russian, 93% voted to join Russia?

#20 Edited by sogni_belli (950 posts) -

The Tartars - the original inhabits of the region before Stalin brutally displaced them and transplanted ethnic Russians there - want nothing to do with the Russian Federation. They boycotted the referendum; however, as they are now only a small minority in their own homeland, their actions are only symbolic.

Although the Crimea is important to the Russians for the naval ports, Russia's big picture goal is eastern Ukraine for its industrial and manufacturing capacity. Expect to see "self-defense" forces popping up in eastern Ukraine shortly.

The West won't respond to the referendum with military force. It will be all-out economic warfare. And, in response, Russia will probably shut of the flow of oil and gas to Europe. It should be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out in the next year.

#21 Posted by Newhopes (4468 posts) -
@deeliman said:

@Newhopes said:

Record number of people turned out to vote, and I knew the vote would go this way Crimea is basically Russian so is much of the eastern provinces, but the US and the west won't accept it because ot doesn't suit their needs.

I'll bet money some of the eastern provinces will demand succession now especially after the trouble the western neo-nazis where causing over the last few weeks.

So it doesn't sound fishy to you that even though only 60% of the Crimean population is Russian, 93% voted to join Russia?

Just think of it this way in the Crimea region less than 10% of the people can even speak the Ukrainian language.

The Tartars are difficult, they where originally from the Crimean Khanate who run extensive slave raids into Russia as Russia gained power they crushed them and their Ottoman masters to stop the raids, and then Stalin did what Stalin did best.

To be honest I don't think the west who have mishandled this massively will or can do anything more than blow hot air.

#22 Posted by themajormayor (25670 posts) -

And 93% of Crimea, wants to secede from the Ukraine.

Do you think the EU and the West will respect their democratic vote? or invade them on false pretenses?

There are no false pretences.

#23 Posted by Newhopes (4468 posts) -

To me this all smells of a set up to put a western style/friendly govenment into power in the Ukraine.

#24 Posted by Jebus213 (8716 posts) -

Ukraine isn't going to let the region join the Russian Federation

This^

#25 Posted by themajormayor (25670 posts) -

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

The fact that the options were:

Choice 1: Join Russia

Choice 2: Join Russia

#26 Posted by Newhopes (4468 posts) -

@quakeknight1991 said:

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

The fact that the options were:

Choice 1: Join Russia

Choice 2: Join Russia

Thats one thing I do agree on they should have been a status quo option., but choice 2 was the option to stay in the Ukraine.

1. Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?

2. Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?

Orignally the Crimea was semi autonomous region inside the Ukraine with it's own constitution and parliament, but Crimea started moves to rejoin Russia but Ukraine didn't like that so dissolved it.

Another funny thing the current Ukraine government who are unelected voted to dissolve the crimea regional assembly who are elected but nobody kicks up a fuss about that.

#27 Edited by GamerForca (7073 posts) -
#28 Posted by Master_Live (13953 posts) -

I welcome my Crimean comrades.

#29 Posted by lostrib (33041 posts) -

I really wouldn't trust the vote either way, but I doubt Ukraine is just going to let a part of the country join Russia

#30 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

@quakeknight1991 said:

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

The fact that the options were:

Choice 1: Join Russia

Choice 2: Join Russia

This is simply not true.

I understand Western and Eu Media is spinning it that way, but that doesn't make it the case.
America and the EU is worried that Russia is growing, and they're making allies. Before Ukraine filled with riots, Russia had offered to help them in their crisis, followed by the EU (after the USA badgered them to do it).
They will do anything to limit Russia's power, because there's still discrimination and intolerance from the cold war.

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

Dont get me wrong, I support a referendum, but not like this. Withdraw the russian soldiers from Crimea and have OSCE observers make sure the referendum isnt rigged. If the referendum had been done this way the west would actually take it more seriously.

Russian soldiers are in Crimea; because the Ukrainian government was ordering sniper teams to execute their own citizens, simply for protesting the government.
Can you imagine what sort of genocide would occur if they had voted to join Russia? Crimea needed, and requested Russia's assistance in protecting the citizens of Crimea, they needed a defense against the Ukrainian regime.

#31 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1234 posts) -

So everyone was making Russia out to be the bad guy, when it turns out Crimea wanted to be part of Russia all along. Propoganda is dangerous because you all fell for it.

#32 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

So everyone was making Russia out to be the bad guy, when it turns out Crimea wanted to be part of Russia all along. Propoganda is dangerous because you all fell for it.

Careful, they're now saying that Russia had a gun to people's heads while they voted.
These bigots will spin anything.

Cold war ended over 60 years ago people. It's time to drop the anti-Russia discrimination.

#33 Edited by quakeknight1991 (1129 posts) -

@Newhopes said:
@deeliman said:

@Newhopes said:

Record number of people turned out to vote, and I knew the vote would go this way Crimea is basically Russian so is much of the eastern provinces, but the US and the west won't accept it because ot doesn't suit their needs.

I'll bet money some of the eastern provinces will demand succession now especially after the trouble the western neo-nazis where causing over the last few weeks.

So it doesn't sound fishy to you that even though only 60% of the Crimean population is Russian, 93% voted to join Russia?

Just think of it this way in the Crimea region less than 10% of the people can even speak the Ukrainian language.

The Tartars are difficult, they where originally from the Crimean Khanate who run extensive slave raids into Russia as Russia gained power they crushed them and their Ottoman masters to stop the raids, and then Stalin did what Stalin did best.

To be honest I don't think the west who have mishandled this massively will or can do anything more than blow hot air.

It doesnt change the fact that only 60% of the population would avtually vote for joining Russia

@Nibroc420 said:

@themajormayor said:

@quakeknight1991 said:

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

The fact that the options were:

Choice 1: Join Russia

Choice 2: Join Russia

This is simply not true.

I understand Western and Eu Media is spinning it that way, but that doesn't make it the case.

America and the EU is worried that Russia is growing, and they're making allies. Before Ukraine filled with riots, Russia had offered to help them in their crisis, followed by the EU (after the USA badgered them to do it).

They will do anything to limit Russia's power, because there's still discrimination and intolerance from the cold war.

@quakeknight1991 said:

This referendum is a joke. Its so bad it reminds me to the recent elections in North Korea where Kim Jong Un got 100% of the votes. Do most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia? Yes. But this result is so inflated its completly obvious its rigged. 40% of the people in Crimea are not Russian and wouldnt support being annexed by Russia, therefore its fairly obvious that if the referendum was actually legit the results wouldnt have turned out like this. This stinks of fraud so much its laughable.

Dont get me wrong, I support a referendum, but not like this. Withdraw the russian soldiers from Crimea and have OSCE observers make sure the referendum isnt rigged. If the referendum had been done this way the west would actually take it more seriously.

Russian soldiers are in Crimea; because the Ukrainian government was ordering sniper teams to execute their own citizens, simply for protesting the government.

Can you imagine what sort of genocide would occur if they had voted to join Russia? Crimea needed, and requested Russia's assistance in protecting the citizens of Crimea, they needed a defense against the Ukrainian regime.

And it was reported that the sniper attacks were a false flag event set up by Russia to create chaos. That much is known. Its pretty obvious why the Russian soldiers were there and it was to make sure this referendum would be fraudulent.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/everyone-agrees-ukraine-sniper-attacks-false-flag-argue-culprit.html

So for the love of god stop exaggerating

Also there is no anti-Russia discrimination, most pro-western people dont hate Russians but Putin, a guy who according to internation observers won the last elections in Russia by fraud.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/world/europe/observers-detail-flaws-in-russian-election.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

#34 Edited by GamerForca (7073 posts) -

@ps4hasnogames said:

So everyone was making Russia out to be the bad guy, when it turns out Crimea wanted to be part of Russia all along. Propoganda is dangerous because you all fell for it.

Cold war ended over 60 years ago people.

lol, you're an idiot.

#35 Posted by deeliman (2344 posts) -

Guys, if we could jist all stop feeding nibroc, that'd be great.

#36 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

@deeliman said:

Guys, if we could jist all stop feeding nibroc, that'd be great.

QFT

#37 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1234 posts) -

@ps4hasnogames said:

So everyone was making Russia out to be the bad guy, when it turns out Crimea wanted to be part of Russia all along. Propoganda is dangerous because you all fell for it.

Careful, they're now saying that Russia had a gun to people's heads while they voted.

These bigots will spin anything.

Cold war ended over 60 years ago people. It's time to drop the anti-Russia discrimination.

just to correct you, it ended in like 1991, but some say it never really ended.... whatever. Its just that crimea wants to be either independent or part of russia.

#38 Posted by Stesilaus (3285 posts) -

Crimea's rightful status as a Russian state has been restored. Let's hope that Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Odessa and the capitals of the remaining Russian-majority states will soon follow the example of Simferopol.

#39 Posted by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

The way I see it is that the west can discredit and disparage Russia all it wants. Personally I believe its mostly propaganda and/or hypocrisy. Nevertheless, Russia probably rigged or inflated the results of the referendum which I think is pretty stupid given how they would have either way gotten the needed approval rate for their actions of annexing the peninsula.

The truth of the matter is, Russia did Crimeans a solid. In the next few years, the Ukraine will continue to collapse and become a failed state as internal conflicts will rip the country apart. It will be so bad that Ukrainians will reminisce about the days of Yanukovych. Security, economic conditions and social strife will make the terrible age of the dictator looks like the golden age of the country. The identity of the Ukrainian society and state will be lost beyond recognition. Meanwhile business will continue as usual in Crimea. Russia is not going to make a Norway out of Crimea, granted, but it will at least make sure it won't become Somalia.

What is the basis of all of this you might ask. Well, what has been happening in recent years in countries where uprising has been "bestowed" on them gives us the quite conspicuous and empirical picture of what things come to eventually. Look at Egypt and Tunisia for example. Egypt was on the verge of collapse hadn't the Egyptian army had the balls and the know-how to save the state and give the finger to the west. Nevertheless, Egypt is fighting a vicious and brutal battle against terrorism, the real variety of terrorism, while the white house is still pondering whether to call it a coup or not. The Egyptian economy is suffering badly and the Egyptian society that has always paraded its unprecedented level of cohesion and harmony has never been so polarized and antagonistic towards its own classes and social groups. In Tunisia, a once proud country that always boasted about its impressive social liberties, the state has been living the same thing. The country has been the battleground for suppression of liberties, assassinations, a war of attrition against the Tunisian society and acute economic failure.

If you have been keeping up with what has been happening in those two countries, you're more than welcome to comment and to try and persuade me to think differently. The resemblance between these two countries and the Ukraine of today is uncanny whether you look at it from pre existing conditions' point of view or from the perspective of post-uprising status quo, not to mention the role Western powers played or abstained from playing in the whole thing. For example the white house maintained a rather strange radio silence during the entire year of the reign of Mursi the fuck in Egypt, even though his regime committed atrocious acts of suppression, torture, assassinations, unconstitutional executive orders, abuse of power and the list goes on and on. The abolition of both the Ukrainian state and society has already commenced. Now you have pro-Russians, pro-west and neo-Nazis wanting to purge the country from one another. Some will use excessive violence, others will use passive aggressiveness and abstention from public life, holding part of the population as ideological and national hostages and others will choose to ally west and east. The outcome will still be the same, the collapse of the Ukraine. Meanwhile Crimeans will be living the good life in comparison to that FUBAR situation.

#40 Posted by quakeknight1991 (1129 posts) -

Or it could reform itself into a modern democratic state and join the EU in the future like other ex-soviet states did, an example being Poland. So yeah go ahead and ask people from Poland whether they prefer being part of Russia or the EU, I think we both know almost everyone there (if not everyone) will choose the EU over Russia without a second thought.

#41 Edited by not_wanted (1977 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

The way I see it is that the west can discredit and disparage Russia all it wants. Personally I believe its mostly propaganda and/or hypocrisy. Nevertheless, Russia probably rigged or inflated the results of the referendum which I think is pretty stupid given how they would have either way gotten the needed approval rate for their actions of annexing the peninsula.

The truth of the matter is, Russia did Crimeans a solid. In the next few years, the Ukraine will continue to collapse and become a failed state as internal conflicts will rip the country apart. It will be so bad that Ukrainians will reminisce about the days of Yanukovych. Security, economic conditions and social strife will make the terrible age of the dictator looks like the golden age of the country. The identity of the Ukrainian society and state will be lost beyond recognition. Meanwhile business will continue as usual in Crimea. Russia is not going to make a Norway out of Crimea, granted, but it will at least make sure it won't become Somalia.

What is the basis of all of this you might ask. Well, what has been happening in recent years in countries where uprising has been "bestowed" on them gives us the quite conspicuous and empirical picture of what things come to eventually. Look at Egypt and Tunisia for example. Egypt was on the verge of collapse hadn't the Egyptian army had the balls and the know-how to save the state and give the finger to the west. Nevertheless, Egypt is fighting a vicious and brutal battle against terrorism, the real variety of terrorism, while the white house is still pondering whether to call it a coup or not. The Egyptian economy is suffering badly and the Egyptian society that has always paraded its unprecedented level of cohesion and harmony has never been so polarized and antagonistic towards its own classes and social groups. In Tunisia, a once proud country that always boasted about its impressive social liberties, the state has been living the same thing. The country has been the battleground for suppression of liberties, assassinations, a war of attrition against the Tunisian society and acute economic failure.

If you have been keeping up with what has been happening in those two countries, you're more than welcome to comment and to try and persuade me to think differently. The resemblance between these two countries and the Ukraine of today is uncanny whether you look at it from pre existing conditions' point of view or from the perspective of post-uprising status quo, not to mention the role Western powers played or abstained from playing in the whole thing. For example the white house maintained a rather strange radio silence during the entire year of the reign of Mursi the fuck in Egypt, even though his regime committed atrocious acts of suppression, torture, assassinations, unconstitutional executive orders, abuse of power and the list goes on and on. The abolition of both the Ukrainian state and society has already commenced. Now you have pro-Russians, pro-west and neo-Nazis wanting to purge the country from one another. Some will use excessive violence, others will use passive aggressiveness and abstention from public life, holding part of the population as ideological and national hostages and others will choose to ally west and east. The outcome will still be the same, the collapse of the Ukraine. Meanwhile Crimeans will be living the good life in comparison to that FUBAR situation.

lol So they should just not only give up on Crimea but bring back Yanukovych and join Russia? In fact why won't all the former USSR countries join back with Russia?

But hey, it's good that at least the E.U. and the U.S. cares about the territorial integrity of a European country. Too bad they didn't care about Serbia when it lost Kosovo.

#42 Edited by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

Or it could reform itself into a modern democratic state and join the EU in the future like other ex-soviet states did, an example being Poland. So yeah go ahead and ask people from Poland whether they prefer being part of Russia or the EU, I think we both know almost everyone there (if not everyone) will choose the EU over Russia without a second thought.

This could definitely happen yes, even though it doesn't look like that it would be happening any time in the near future. We'll just have to wait and see, although I don't think you're making the right comparison here. Meaning, you're not taking into account the disparities between the two states, not that I myself am an expert in this.

#43 Edited by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

The way I see it is that the west can discredit and disparage Russia all it wants. Personally I believe its mostly propaganda and/or hypocrisy. Nevertheless, Russia probably rigged or inflated the results of the referendum which I think is pretty stupid given how they would have either way gotten the needed approval rate for their actions of annexing the peninsula.

The truth of the matter is, Russia did Crimeans a solid. In the next few years, the Ukraine will continue to collapse and become a failed state as internal conflicts will rip the country apart. It will be so bad that Ukrainians will reminisce about the days of Yanukovych. Security, economic conditions and social strife will make the terrible age of the dictator looks like the golden age of the country. The identity of the Ukrainian society and state will be lost beyond recognition. Meanwhile business will continue as usual in Crimea. Russia is not going to make a Norway out of Crimea, granted, but it will at least make sure it won't become Somalia.

What is the basis of all of this you might ask. Well, what has been happening in recent years in countries where uprising has been "bestowed" on them gives us the quite conspicuous and empirical picture of what things come to eventually. Look at Egypt and Tunisia for example. Egypt was on the verge of collapse hadn't the Egyptian army had the balls and the know-how to save the state and give the finger to the west. Nevertheless, Egypt is fighting a vicious and brutal battle against terrorism, the real variety of terrorism, while the white house is still pondering whether to call it a coup or not. The Egyptian economy is suffering badly and the Egyptian society that has always paraded its unprecedented level of cohesion and harmony has never been so polarized and antagonistic towards its own classes and social groups. In Tunisia, a once proud country that always boasted about its impressive social liberties, the state has been living the same thing. The country has been the battleground for suppression of liberties, assassinations, a war of attrition against the Tunisian society and acute economic failure.

If you have been keeping up with what has been happening in those two countries, you're more than welcome to comment and to try and persuade me to think differently. The resemblance between these two countries and the Ukraine of today is uncanny whether you look at it from pre existing conditions' point of view or from the perspective of post-uprising status quo, not to mention the role Western powers played or abstained from playing in the whole thing. For example the white house maintained a rather strange radio silence during the entire year of the reign of Mursi the fuck in Egypt, even though his regime committed atrocious acts of suppression, torture, assassinations, unconstitutional executive orders, abuse of power and the list goes on and on. The abolition of both the Ukrainian state and society has already commenced. Now you have pro-Russians, pro-west and neo-Nazis wanting to purge the country from one another. Some will use excessive violence, others will use passive aggressiveness and abstention from public life, holding part of the population as ideological and national hostages and others will choose to ally west and east. The outcome will still be the same, the collapse of the Ukraine. Meanwhile Crimeans will be living the good life in comparison to that FUBAR situation.

lol So they should just not only give up on Crimea but bring back Yanukovych and join Russia? In fact why won't all the former USSR countries join back with Russia?

But hey, it's good that at least the E.U. and the U.S. cares about the territorial integrity of a European country. Too bad they didn't care about Serbia when it lost Kosovo.

I'm not sure the Ukraine has much of a say in this. Its too busy anyway dealing with domestic shit right now.

Territorial integrity? Please.

#44 Posted by Master_Live (13953 posts) -

I swear, some people don't understand the concept of strategic interest.

#45 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -

no one other than russia is going to invade

#46 Posted by Jebus213 (8716 posts) -

Ukraine isn't going to let the region join the Russian Federation.

You fucking lied.

#47 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7720 posts) -

lol 93% voted yes. These are the type of numbers you used to see with elections held for defacto dictators. Are people really naive to believe the referendum was passes legitimately?

Kim Jong Un just had a near unanimous vote in his election too. Its the will of the people!

#48 Posted by LJS9502_basic (149986 posts) -

Since I wasn't born yesterday....I don't believe the "vote" was realistic.

#49 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17379 posts) -

Historically an overwhelming majority of referendums of this nature have ended with lopsided results. There probably was some fraud as well but the results really aren't that surprising in context.