Confederate flag on South Carolina capitol

lmao! I never knew they sold it.

Hey, y'know what would be funny? If people took some cheesy old flag that meant nothing more to the vast majority than orange cars jumping barns, lynard skynard album covers and cheap wall treatments for mobile homes and overnight turned it into a symbol as powerful as a swastika.

Honestly who gives a **** about this flag? It's a fucking flag get over it.

As I already said in the other thread, I don't care about the confederate flag. I also don't care for this knee-jerk reaction we always see over these kinds of incidents.

Seems like we could find better things to focus on to fix, like poverty, infrastructure, health care etc.

no! this is of critical importance.

america has decided that romanticizing slave owners is immoral and it will no longer be a part of it and so we are going to get rid of this.

wait... not that one... this one.

shit... my bad that's just a slave rapist. hold up.

maybe this one.

oops. sorry that's the native american genocide guy.

hold up i will find the right one eventually.

As someone who lives in neighboring North Carolina I can basically tell you I've never had a positive interaction with a person who flies, wears or otherwise displays a confederate flag. Some of course pass it off as a symbol of 'southern heritage' but I don't buy it for a minute, and will say that vast majority of level-headed people can embrace their Southern roots in a variety of ways that don't involve displaying imagery that by its own creation is inherently linked to slavery and treasonous behavior.

Meh I never gave a damn about the Confederate Flag in all my life despite I'm black. Ether way, not my problem and the only Flag I care about in my life is the United States Flag.

Me neither. I think people who buy that excuse are naive or have an agenda.

@Riverwolf007: True, there will never be a symbol or state seal, flag, icon or banner that doesn't offend somebody somewhere, and I'm not sure censoring the latest offense of the day is gonna fix our problems overnight.

Having said that we probably should remove the confederate flag from state associations so we can work on real issues... but that wont happen because then we'll still be butting heads over gay marriage, the evils of marijuana and other important issues like building bridges to nowhere.

Agreed, the flag needs to be pulled down and put in a museum where it belongs.

and now of course this nothing issue gets in the way.

everyone gets to pat themselves on the back for their progressive stance while having a wallet full of slaveowners and aunt jemima pancakes and uncle ben rice in their cupboards.

the hypocrisy is just mind blowing.

hey ot enjoy your breakfast. yum yum delicious irony.

I don't think it's unreasonable to remove the CSA flag from the capitol grounds, especially after a white man worshiped it and killed nine black people. What is unreasonable is accusing everyone that flies the flag to be a prejudiced individual.

l also don't think it's unreasonable after 9/11 profiling certain people of certain religious affiliations from more invasive searches at airport screenings. I don't think it's unreasonable to stop and frisk young minority men in rough neighborhoods in NYC for illegal weapons and drugs, I don't think it's unreasonable to not have health insurance, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask someone for identification in order for someone to vote.

The nation has abandoned reason and logic for ideology and passion, thus I don't care whether the flag comes down or not because if every policy is going to be based on feelings, then just as fleeting as feelings are, so too will be the resolve of the nation.

so ot, something has been bothering me and i knew you would want to help.

see, there is this huge monument to evil in my country and nobody sees any problem with it.

it represents some of the worst people that ever lived. horrible people that owned other people, people that had non consensual sex with powerless people. people that suspended parts of the constitution when the constitution got in the way of what they wanted. people who did things like overthrowing the Panamanian government so an infrastructure project could be completed. an infrastructure project that killed thousands of native workers.

how do we get this horrible monument to hate out of our federal park?

Two questions: First, does winning or losing a war determine whether one is a hero or traitor? Secondly, you must also feel the forefathers of the United States are a prime definition of the word traitor, yes?

This issue seems to show me a major problem here in the states and that is how a small minority of people tend to decide what is acceptable and not. Of course there is bad associated with this particular flag and believe it or not, good as well. Quite honestly, if this flag drops, why not Old Glory? Our government has perpetrated some terrible events in our history under this flag. In that case though, people would use the good to outweigh the bad.

Lincoln really wasn't intent on abolishing slavery. Yes....slavery was an issue of the Civil War but it was also only one of the reasons. State's right was a big issue back in the day. Tariffs hurt the south while it helped the north. As for the flag itself...I've always thought it was ridiculous to fly it.....the US flag should be flown on government buildings. While I don't like the flag.....I also don't want to restrict private individuals from flying the flag....free speech and all. But southern governments should NEVER fly it.

All true, really, however you could make the argument that free speech doesn't protect hate speech, so depending on how the use of the flag is interpreted, it could be considered hate against black people, no?

Those who use the flag say it's for regional pride. I'm not comfortable with allowing assumptions as rule. And hate speech isn't against the law. Inciting violence is....but not hate speech no matter how abominable we think it is.

@LJS9502_basic: Well in law the definition of hate speech is any gesture, speech, or display which incites violence or "prejudicial action". Given the recent events, violence certainly is somewhere in the equation, though of course I wouldn't claim the flag is the reason for it; that would be silly. Still, I think the argument could be made that the flag could be censored without it being unconstitutional.

No, that's what's referred to as "fighting words" which isn't protected. Hate speech is still protected, and people are still free to be stormfronters, new black panthers, etc and spout all the hate speech they want.

Huh, that does seem to be the case.

What country do you live in? In the US hate speech is protected under the Constitution as free speech is valued.

Inciting violence is not protected because it causes an action.

Spain, but I was actually talking about the american constitution, my knowledge of the matter is just limited :P I was under the impression most or all forms of hate speech weren't protected by the first amendment.

Ah well all speech is protected unless as I said it's an incitement to violence. To truly have free speech you have to allow for all opinions....even those we find deplorable. So private property will still be able to fly the flag of the losers in the war if they wish. But as I said....state governments should NOT be flying.

Touche

at least if the flag is removed we'll never have crazy people shoot up places in the name of racial hatred again right?

right?

has anyone actually argued that removing the flag will fix racism

I have always wondered why it was still raised in the southern states since the civil war ended a long time ago and it's more suited as a museum piece.

@Aljosa23: So is this thread about the flag debate per se (i.e. whether or not SC or other states should fly the Confederate Battle Flag on their state buildings) or about the Republican presidential contenders - and for that matter why not include the Democrat ones as well - and their stances on this issue?

As a resident of Connecticut, I don't really care if SC flies that flag or not. It's not my state, I don't get a vote in the matter.

this sure is a huge issue from a bunch of people that think nothing of how horrible the slave rapist memorial (on federal grounds no less) is... wait.. i mean the jefferson rapetunda.

lulz. whatta a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

but hey, like a great man once said.

"I consider a woman who brings a child every two years as more profitable than the best man of the farm," -T.J.

Interesting in how the trampling/burning of the American flag is "free speech" yet the mere sight of the Confederate Flag causes the liberal community to decry hate speech/evil symbolism/etc. Even though ironically, more atrocities have occurred under the American flag (including slavery), but a las, that's neither here nor there.

Burning the flag IS protected as free speech. As is flying the Confederate Flag. As is criticizing those who fly the Confederate Flag as venerating a group of traitorous racists.

Though many atrocities have been committed under the American flag, the ideals that the country was founded on are fine. Those atrocities ran counter to those ideals and thus were a failing of the people, not the principle. The Confederacy was founded solely and explicitly to preserve the institution of slavery, and it is the core principles that are rotten. That's the difference.

Nobody is saying that private citizens can't fly either flag, but rather we have a problem with certain government institutions flying it. Your straw-man is falling pretty flat on its ass.

So apparently Apple removed every app from the app store that in someway features the confederate flag, including games about the civil war. Now it's getting a little out of hand. What else are you suppose to represent confederate forces during the civil war with if not the Confederate battle flag?

@ferrari2001: Heard about that, what's next historical documentaries, TV shows or even historical sites.

Pretty dumb. Imagine Wolfenstein with out the Swastika imagery present.

I agree with removing it from federal and state property (aside from confederate war memorials). However, the rest of the crap is an overreaction. I hate the confederate flag. I do believe that it represents the old southern heritage, which was a heritage of slavery among other things. See the problem with these pro-confederate flag people is that they can't seem to understand the the flag doesn't just represent what you want it to. It represents the entire heritage, the good AND the bad. Just like the stars and striped represents the good and the bad of the United States. The confederate flag does indeed stand for slavery and racism, there's no doubt about it.

However, I believe in the first amendment and I believe in people's rights to fly the flag if they want. I believe it's stupid, but its their choice. Private citizens should have the right to own and fly the flag, but it doesn't belong on federal or state property that represents everyone in the U.S. Everyone is overreacting now, banning the sale of the flag and even Apple banning games that use it (even a Civil War game, which is ridiculous.) let the people buy the flag if they want, it just makes it easier for the rest of us to see what kind of people they really are.

The flag they want taken down was never accepted as an official flag of the confederacy. It was a battle flag and just become a symbol for southern pride, remembrance of those that died, and unfortunately tied into racism/the klan. I think people should be able to own one and put it on the personal property as it's their right. I do not think it should be on any federal building as it incites too much hate and brings up a troubled past. I still think it's funny people think this is the actual confederate flag though.

Sure they are.

It's all relative.

It's just a damn flag. A piece of fabric that won't mean anything when we're all dead.

it's obviously wrong to display a flag under which horrible atrocities have occurred so after some intensive research and number crunching i found the current flag under which the fewest atrocities have been committed.

i ordered it and will proudly hoist it over my home as an inarguable symbol of progress, peace and harmony.

Who then?

Take down the flag but leave the memorials (with some exceptions such as the Forrest monument) and graves. There's a lot of talk of taking down all the memorials and even getting rid of the graves. Seriously, that's going too far.

It's no longer an official flag so it should come down for that reason alone.

Not really, no. This is a cheap handwave.

.. It should be obvious why they shouldn't be flown on federal or state grounds.. It is a flag of sedition and treason.. Feel free to fly it on your private property or wear it, but don't be shocked if people think poorly of you.. Honestly I really don't care but what annoys me to no end is the fact of revisionist history going on.. This bullshit about being for "state's rights" is absolute crap.. The southern slave holding states were in complete favor of enforcing the fugitive slave laws which would force northern free states to uphold it.. So this pretty much throws any kind of defense of state's rights out the window when the slave states were in complete support of trying to use the federal government to enforce laws in free northern states for their benefit.

Something else for the SJWs to latch on to. Removing the flag will fix nothing and in fact may actually make things worse.

@Riverwolf007 said:

so ot, something has been bothering me and i knew you would want to help.

see, there is this huge monument to evil in my country and nobody sees any problem with it.

it represents some of the worst people that ever lived. horrible people that owned other people, people that had non consensual sex with powerless people. people that suspended parts of the constitution when the constitution got in the way of what they wanted. people who did things like overthrowing the Panamanian government so an infrastructure project could be completed. an infrastructure project that killed thousands of native workers.

how do we get this horrible monument to hate out of our federal park?

Is that sarcasm? Because im sure after the confederate flag the faces on the bills and the monument will be next.

At least we won't have to see the national symbol of sore-losers as often.

@-God-: You will probably see it more actually. It just makes some people angry so those who didn't really care will start to care.