Catholic Hospital: it was morally wrong to argue that fetuses aren't people

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

So a while ago there was a topic (actually two) on this forum about a Catholic hospital in Colorado whose lawyers argued in a malpractice case that fetuses are not people under Colorado's Wrongful Death Act.

Recently the Bishops of Colorado have contacted the administrators of the hospital (Catholic Health Initiatives) and have issued the following statement:

Statement addressing recent policies and practices of Catholic Health Initiatives

Each human life is a sacred gift, created as a unique and unrepeatable expression of Gods love. Life is given by God, and the right to life is a fundamental good, without which no other rights can be enjoyed. Because life is endowed with dignity from the moment of conception to the time of natural death, just societies should create laws that comprehensively protect it.

In 2006, Lori Stodghill, who was pregnant with twin sons, tragically died at St. Thomas More Hospital in Cañon City, Colorado after Lori suffered a pulmonary embolism. After their deaths, the Stodghill family took legal action against the doctors involved, and St. Thomas More, which is sponsored by Catholic Health Initiatives, an institution of the Catholic Church. The lawsuit alleged that the hospital failed to sufficiently try to save Ms. Stodghill and her children.

Attorneys for St. Thomas More argued that the hospital provided the best possible medical care to Lori Stodghill and her sons, and that there was no possibility of saving their lives. Two courts affirmed that argument.

Evidence indicates that St. Thomas More Hospital undertook all possible efforts to save Lori Stodghill. Medical experts testified to that effect. They also testified that the Stodghill children tragically died before medical care commenced, so an emergency C-section would not have saved them. We have every reason to believe that St. Thomas More Hospital provided excellent and conscientious medical care in this case.

Attorneys for St. Thomas More Hospital argued that because unborn children are not defined as persons under Colorados Wrongful Death Act, the law did not permit this lawsuit. We became aware of this tragic situation on Thursday, January 24, 2013. We at once contacted the leadership of CHI for clarification.

CHI was unaware that legal counsel for St. Thomas More had aligned itself with an argument based upon an unjust law. CHI officials have assured us that they believed it was morally wrong to make recourse to an unjust law. They have also assured us that they will no longer utilize this unjust law if the case is heard before additional courts.

CHI joins us in our commitment to work for comprehensive change in Colorados law, so that the unborn may enjoy the same legal protections as all other persons.

We commend CHI for its rapid acknowledgement of this situation and its commitment to rectifying any harm it may have caused. We join CHI in affirming the fundamental truth that human life, human dignity, and human rights begin at conception. No law can ever mitigate God-given human rights. All Catholic persons and institutions, indeed all men and women of good will, share the solemn responsibility to support efforts aimed at establishing legal protection for the unborn.

Finally, we join Catholic Health Initiatives in expressing solidarity for the Stodghill family. The loss they have experienced is unimaginable. They have offered to stand with the Stodghills, and to support them in their suffering. We commend that commitment, and offer our own prayers and support to the Stodghill family.

Catholic healthcare institutions are, and should, be held to the high standard of Jesus Christ himself, who is our divine and eternal healer. We pray that the good work of Catholic hospitals in America may continue to provide healing, support, and witness to the essential dignity of all human life.

Most Reverend Samuel J. Aquila
Archbishop of Denver

Most Reverend Michael Sheridan
Bishop of Colorado Springs

Most Reverend Fernando Isern
Bishop of Pueblo

#2 Posted by BossPerson (9445 posts) -

easy to say that now

#3 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -
When it comes down to money, no one gives two sh*ts.
#4 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

some people in this thread seem mad

#5 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

When it comes down to money, no one gives two sh*ts.DroidPhysX
you generalize. The hospital appears to have been unaware that the lawyer was using that argument as a defense.

#6 Posted by wis3boi (31118 posts) -

Stay classy Catholic church.

#7 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

some people in this thread seem mad

kingkong0124

Crazy or angry?

Plus it's not hard to figure out what you mean by "some people" given that there are only three people (myself included) other than you that have posted before you did in this thread.

#8 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -

some people in this thread seem mad

kingkong0124
you think the catholic church is commenting in this thread?
#9 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

#10 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

some people in this thread seem mad

DroidPhysX

you think the catholic church is commenting in this thread?

Nice 1

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

whipassmt

Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)
#11 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

I should point out that CHI has said it will no longer use the argument that fetuses aren't people and that the bishops indicate that the law should be changed so as to cover unborn persons.

#12 Posted by Serraph105 (27824 posts) -

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

whipassmt

my thought after reading this bit "Finally, we join Catholic Health Initiatives in expressing solidarity for the Stodghill family. The loss they have experienced is unimaginable. They have offered to stand with the Stodghills, and to support them in their suffering. We commend that commitment, and offer our own prayers and support to the Stodghill family."


Is that perhaps they should offer the monetary compensation (or at least some of it) to show that they are truly apologetic for their lawyer for using this particular legal argument that they claim they so strongly disagree with. This would be far more useful than prayers which are quite intangible, and ultimately not useful when it comes to dealing with this new lack of their mother's income.

What say you to that whip?

#13 Posted by whipassmt (13996 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] you think the catholic church is commenting in this thread?kingkong0124

Nice 1

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

whipassmt


Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)

Umm. I see. They like to jump to conclusions. At least nocoolnamejim did seem to be somewhat interested in an actual discussion on the thread he made about the topic. The others seem to be interested in making snide little petty comments.

#14 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24964 posts) -

Holy poop nuggets, a Catholic hospital against abortion?

#15 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3794 posts) -

Matybe we'll just lock Galileo away for life since the church lives in the 1600s now.

#16 Posted by GreekGameManiac (6439 posts) -

Yeah,it's just horrible.

The thing is,though...

Ppl die everyday on this cursed planet.

#17 Posted by Chutebox (36670 posts) -

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

whipassmt
You expected more from this place? Really? Glad they caught and fixed this as much as they could. A fetus is a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.
#18 Posted by LordQuorthon (5287 posts) -


Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)kingkong0124

Are they supposed to cheer for him or something?

Dammit, Kingkong, I never thought I'd say this to anyone because the bar is set really, really low, but you are far too dumb for the Internet. Call your ISP and tell them you want to cancel your DSL/Cable/Whatever. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#19 Posted by GreySeal9 (24114 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

Chutebox

You expected more from this place? Really? Glad they caught and fixed this as much as they could. A fetus is a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.

No matter how convinced you are of this, it really is only your opinion.

#20 Posted by wis3boi (31118 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]


Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)LordQuorthon

Are they supposed to cheer for him or something?

Dammit, Kingkong, I never thought I'd say this to anyone because the bar is set really, really low, but you are far too dumb for the Internet. Call your ISP and tell them you want to cancel your DSL/Cable/Whatever. 

 

 

28-the-laker-brothers-best-sports-gifs-o

#21 Posted by TehFuneral (8036 posts) -

A baby heart beats at week 4 from conception.

Long before it goes through the fetal stage and considered a fetus.

#22 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -

A baby heart beats at week 4 from conception.

Long before it goes through the fetal stage and considered a fetus.

TehFuneral
heart beat isn't an indication of anything relevant brohammed
#23 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24964 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]


Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)LordQuorthon

Are they supposed to cheer for him or something?

Dammit, Kingkong, I never thought I'd say this to anyone because the bar is set really, really low, but you are far too dumb for the Internet. Call your ISP and tell them you want to cancel your DSL/Cable/Whatever. 

0b464c89_tumblr_lvo2835_OOi1qe3p9bo1_500.

#24 Posted by TehFuneral (8036 posts) -

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

A baby heart beats at week 4 from conception.

Long before it goes through the fetal stage and considered a fetus.

DroidPhysX

heart beat isn't an indication of anything relevant brohammed

Really?

Heart beat is used as a sign of embryonic life in the medical field and the absence of it indicates a stillbirth, and is also a regular part of every antenatal visit as any abnormality may indicate a congenital anomaly.

#25 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]When it comes down to money, no one gives two sh*ts.whipassmt

you generalize. The hospital appears to have been unaware that the lawyer was using that argument as a defense.

Yeah, I'm calling bullsh*ts on that one.

#26 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

A baby heart beats at week 4 from conception.

Long before it goes through the fetal stage and considered a fetus.

TehFuneral

heart beat isn't an indication of anything relevant brohammed

Really?

Heart beat is used as a sign of embryonic life in the medical field and the absence of it indicates a stillbirth, and is also a regular part of every antenatal visit as any abnormality may indicate a congenital anomaly.

And?

#27 Posted by jimkabrhel (15417 posts) -

Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)

kingkong0124

Trying being part of an extended family of Catholics, and see how much they agree with the current positions of the Church. Not all of them just blind follow. 

When you look at the Church critically, they are just another large organization with it's own rules, and they make mistakes, often bigs ones, and are often hypocritical. 

If the Catholic Church had sterling reputation up until this point, this article would have been on the back page somewhere, but decades and centuries of being behind the times have given them a bad reputations.

I know many wonderful Catholics, and I find them some of the most open-minded Christians in comparison to Protestants and Evangelicals, but the Church hierarchy leaves a lot to be desired.

If you want to post positive articles about the Church, so be it, but this is the internet, where people only want to see negativity and be critical.

#28 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -
lol pro-lifers
#29 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7745 posts) -
[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

Chutebox
You expected more from this place? Really? Glad they caught and fixed this as much as they could. A fetus is a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.

Except a basic understanding of Biology.
#30 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -
A fetus is not a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.Chutebox
Fixed that for you.
#31 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7745 posts) -

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

whipassmt
Wait for JoeRatz to post. I'm sure he'll provide something.
#32 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6537 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="whipassmt"]

So I see, this is gonna just be a pointless thread with people making pointless posts just like the original thread on this issue. I was hoping for something a bit more substantive.

GreySeal9

You expected more from this place? Really? Glad they caught and fixed this as much as they could. A fetus is a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.

No matter how convinced you are of this, it really is only your opinion.

How is that subjective?
#33 Posted by Chutebox (36670 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]A fetus is not a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.ghoklebutter
Fixed that for you.

Good examples of the denial and sad train of thought plaguing us today.

#34 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]A fetus is not a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.Chutebox

Fixed that for you.

Good examples of the denial and sad train of thought plaguing us today.

I could say the same about you. Fetuses aren't sentient human beings. They're clumps of cells. You might as well say that a zygote is a human be- oh, wait.
#35 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7745 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]A fetus is not a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.Chutebox

Fixed that for you.

Good examples of the denial and sad train of thought plaguing us today.

Hello Pot, meet Kettle. lol at conservatives, all suffering from trisomy 21.
#36 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]


Protip: never post things about Catholicism on OT unless it's negative (many people here will start drooling like rabid dogs when they see a Catholic priest molesting a child, for example)LordQuorthon

Are they supposed to cheer for him or something?

Dammit, Kingkong, I never thought I'd say this to anyone because the bar is set really, really low, but you are far too dumb for the Internet. Call your ISP and tell them you want to cancel your DSL/Cable/Whatever. 

 

I never said that they are supposed to cheer for child molestors...in fact my post is saying the exact opposite :| sorry you couldn't understand it and instead decided to make a fool of yourself.

Instead of being sad about these attacks and condemning them like a normal person would, many OTers "drool" at the opportunity of spreading their sh*t around, making fun of/trolling Catholics to get their laughs, etc.

wis3boi

Sucking up will get you nowhere in life

#37 Posted by TehFuneral (8036 posts) -

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] heart beat isn't an indication of anything relevant brohammed worlock77

Really?

Heart beat is used as a sign of embryonic life in the medical field and the absence of it indicates a stillbirth, and is also a regular part of every antenatal visit as any abnormality may indicate a congenital anomaly.

And?

And what?

#38 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -
worlock77
Do you have any information supporting your guess?...
#39 Posted by LordQuorthon (5287 posts) -

I never said that they are supposed to cheer for child molestors...in fact my post is saying the exact opposite :| sorry you couldn't understand it and instead decided to make a fool of yourself.

Instead of being sad about these attacks and condemning them like a normal person would, many OTers "drool" at the opportunity of spreading their sh*t around, making fun of/trolling Catholics to get their laughs, etc.

kingkong0124

Stop replying. Cancel your Internet. For everybody's sake, yours in particular. You really are way too stupid to talk in public. 

 

 

 

#40 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

LordQuorthon

Ok, looks like you did indeed make a fool of yourself. Bow down to the king, bi***

#41 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

also - read my signature. let's hope this time you will be able to comprehend basic English

#42 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]kingkong0124
Do you have any information supporting your guess?...

What? If you want me address something specific then quoting something specific would help. Blank quotes are not helpful.

#43 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -
kks style of blank quoting can get annoying
#44 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -
kks style of blank quoting can get annoyingDroidPhysX
#45 Posted by wis3boi (31118 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]kks style of blank quoting can get annoyingRich3232

#46 Posted by jimkabrhel (15417 posts) -

also - read my signature. let's hope this time you will be able to comprehend basic English

kingkong0124

I read your sig and I can comprehend it. 

It reads: "I'm an a**."

#47 Posted by GreySeal9 (24114 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"] You expected more from this place? Really? Glad they caught and fixed this as much as they could. A fetus is a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.Capitan_Kid

No matter how convinced you are of this, it really is only your opinion.

How is that subjective?

Because "personhood" is established by law.

It is a fact that the fetus constitutes a human life. It is not a fact that the fetus constitutes a person.

#48 Posted by GreySeal9 (24114 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]A fetus is not a person and all the denial in the world can't change that.Chutebox

Fixed that for you.

Good examples of the denial and sad train of thought plaguing us today.

One cannot be in denial of something that is merely your opinion.