Can These Situations Be Classified as Rape in Your Opinion?

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#51 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6686 posts) -

@korvus: Seems like I need to start signing contracts every time I'm about to have sex.

And yes, you're reading far too much into that sentence. But please explain to me how the guy was supposed to know that she didn't want it? In her mind she might not have wanted it, but did she communicate to the guy what she was thinking? Is he supposed to read her mind? She said nothing, did nothing, she just laid there. In the guy's mind, everything is fair game because she didn't communicate otherwise.

However, if she showed even the tiniest bit of resistance and the guy continued, then it's rape. That's all I'm saying.

And fuck off with trying to insinuate that I'm a rapist. And to this, "Did the women who had an orgasm during a rape wanted it after all?" No you twat, she's being raped.

If you knew anything about social queues you'd know that sex is a largely nonverbal act and people don't just go around asking people if they can have sex with them. Communication is done mainly through body language, and if you don't communicate with someone that you don't want to have sex with them, then how the fuck are they supposed to know?

#52 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6686 posts) -

@Shottayouth13- said:

@Barbariser said:
@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

What kind of fucked up logic is that? This is one of the biggest problems with rape culture, we have assholes making all kinds of shitty justifications up even when they've been explicitly told it was non-consensual.

Define consent. Is it some written, formal agreement? It's quite impossible to have sex with a woman who doesn't want it unless she's forcibly raped. Lack of any form of resistance (verbal and nonverbal) gives a clear answer of consent.

The OP literally spells out that it was unwanted and that the man did not ask her first, and there's an implication that he thought she was sleeping. This is explicit non-consent, and there are many reasons why a rape victim would not attempt to resist a physically stronger person who just showed that he can't be bothered to ask before having sex with someone half his age, and who is also in a position of power over her (she's taking shelter in his house).

And no, there are tonnes of ways to rape someone without having to overcome "resistance": use drugs/alcohol to inebriate them, wait until the person is asleep/incapacitated, threat of force, .etc. Cut it out with the "assumed consent" crap, seriously, it's ridiculous that you're trying to spin it that way when the scenario explicitly tells you that no consent was given.

@SpartanMSU said:

@Barbariser: A lot of times when you have sex it isn't verbal as in, "Hey, would you like to participate in intercourse with me?" Not all girls are going to rip their clothes off and say stick it in me. Not saying what this guy did wasn't weird or wrong.

I don't know if it was rape in a legal sense though since I'm not familiar with the nuances of the law. It is however, insanely creepy and fvcked up, especially with a 17 year old.

Consent doesn't need to be verbal, but given that the girl was trying to sleep, the man was a stranger twice her age, and the OP explicitly told us that she didn't want it, there's no reason to think that she was giving him "non-verbal" consent.

Yes, the OP stated that she didn't want it,but how was the guy supposed to know that? She didn't communicate to him otherwise. And again, people don't go around and ask people (verbally) if it's cool to have sex with them. If you do it, that's fine, but most people don't.

Moreover, she was trying to sleep, but not fully asleep. I would be preaching a different tune if that wasn't the case.

#53 Posted by lostrib (31417 posts) -

1) would be yes

2) No

#54 Posted by XilePrincess (13094 posts) -

1) Yes, in no way is that okay. Even if she had been of age to consent wherever she was, the man who brought her into his home knew she was in a vulnerable position and preyed upon that. It's not "go until someone says stop" it's "don't until someone says go". He took advantage of her.

2) No. There is rape in the porn industry, for sure, and consent can be withdrawn at any time and that should be respected, but people aren't mind readers. Porn isn't about having a good time having sex, the actors are putting on a show and unless she says something (even along the lines of "ow, that hurts") he can't know that she wants him to stop and isn't just repositioning herself for the camera.


PS sorry your dad is a disgusting child-raping pig, OP.

#55 Edited by Barbariser (6697 posts) -
@Shottayouth13- said:

@Barbariser said:
The OP literally spells out that it was unwanted and that the man did not ask her first, and there's an implication that he thought she was sleeping. This is explicit non-consent, and there are many reasons why a rape victim would not attempt to resist a physically stronger person who just showed that he can't be bothered to ask before having sex with someone half his age, and who is also in a position of power over her (she's taking shelter in his house).

And no, there are tonnes of ways to rape someone without having to overcome "resistance": use drugs/alcohol to inebriate them, wait until the person is asleep/incapacitated, threat of force, .etc. Cut it out with the "assumed consent" crap, seriously, it's ridiculous that you're trying to spin it that way when the scenario explicitly tells you that no consent was given.

@SpartanMSU said:

@Barbariser: A lot of times when you have sex it isn't verbal as in, "Hey, would you like to participate in intercourse with me?" Not all girls are going to rip their clothes off and say stick it in me. Not saying what this guy did wasn't weird or wrong.

I don't know if it was rape in a legal sense though since I'm not familiar with the nuances of the law. It is however, insanely creepy and fvcked up, especially with a 17 year old.

Consent doesn't need to be verbal, but given that the girl was trying to sleep, the man was a stranger twice her age, and the OP explicitly told us that she didn't want it, there's no reason to think that she was giving him "non-verbal" consent.

Yes, the OP stated that she didn't want it,but how was the guy supposed to know that? She didn't communicate to him otherwise. And again, people don't go around and ask people (verbally) if it's cool to have sex with them. If you do it, that's fine, but most people don't.

Moreover, she was trying to sleep, but not fully asleep. I would be preaching a different tune if that wasn't the case.

Why does it matter if he "knows" whether or not she wanted it? It's kind of his fucking responsibility to ensure that he has consent before he initiates sex with a physically weaker and dependent person who, from his perspective, might not even be awake. If you rape somebody else, you don't get to override them and say that it's not rape because you weren't aware of a lack of consent.

And there are only two cases where you have sex with people without verbal consent - when you have non-verbal consent, or when you don't have consent. And guess what, the latter is what happened here and we classify those cases as "rapes".

According to the OP, she's lying down and "trying to sleep", probably indicating closed eyes. Seeing as you're trying to look at this from the rapist's point of view, that's pretty damning evidence that he thought she was out and wouldn't be able to give him consent anyway.

#56 Posted by GazaAli (22491 posts) -

I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances of your conception BRHD. It should not matter though; I mean you're here aren't you?

#57 Edited by Korvus (2315 posts) -

@Shottayouth13- said:

@korvus: Seems like I need to start signing contracts every time I'm about to have sex.

And yes, you're reading far too much into that sentence. But please explain to me how the guy was supposed to know that she didn't want it? In her mind she might not have wanted it, but did she communicate to the guy what she was thinking? Is he supposed to read her mind? She said nothing, did nothing, she just laid there. In the guy's mind, everything is fair game because she didn't communicate otherwise.

However, if she showed even the tiniest bit of resistance and the guy continued, then it's rape. That's all I'm saying.

And fuck off with trying to insinuate that I'm a rapist. And to this, "Did the women who had an orgasm during a rape wanted it after all?" No you twat, she's being raped.

If you knew anything about social queues you'd know that sex is a largely nonverbal act and people don't just go around asking people if they can have sex with them. Communication is done mainly through body language, and if you don't communicate with someone that you don't want to have sex with them, then how the fuck are they supposed to know?

If you need to be explained how to figure out that she doesn't want it there's nothing I can do to help you. To me, no YES is a NO, to you no NO is a YES, there's the problem right there.

Sorry to say that if "She said nothing, did nothing, she just laid there" that's a pretty good indicator of "too scared to try and resist", in which case it IS rape.

I'm going to stop replying to you now because every time I read your replies I feel more and more sick to my stomach. Just to close, I wasn't trying to insinuate you intended to rape anyone, I was merely trying to ask you (for your own good) to have better reasons to have sex than "she didn't struggle"...

@GazaAli said:

I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances of your conception BRHD. It should not matter though; I mean you're here aren't you?

Glad to see someone with a positive approach to this thread. I feel the same and I apologise to Blu for not communicating so before (got sidetracked); you are who you are regardless of the circumstances of your birth and I hope that this situation doesn't make you think any less of yourself. That situation does not define you or your mother. Also, you were quite brave to flat out admitting the situation, if nothing else it made me respect you a little more =)

#58 Posted by GamerForca (7070 posts) -

I'm fucking disturbed. Why the hell did I have to open this thread? Btw, yes and no.

#59 Posted by GazaAli (22491 posts) -

I'm fucking disturbed. Why the hell did I have to open this thread? Btw, yes and no.

I'm curious, what is it that made you this disturbed?

#60 Posted by Iszdope (9383 posts) -

Dead men don't rape.

#61 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8504 posts) -

1. Ofcourse thats Rape.

2. technically she would be resisting .

#62 Posted by GamerForca (7070 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

@GamerForca said:

I'm fucking disturbed. Why the hell did I have to open this thread? Btw, yes and no.

I'm curious, what is it that made you this disturbed?

Bluray's revelation of how he was conceived, especially when I read back on the first scenario and see how casually it is written. I mean, did his mom give him all these details of that night? About how afraid she was while that man was on top of her?

#63 Posted by mjorh (582 posts) -

1- Yes

2-NO

#64 Edited by GazaAli (22491 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

@GamerForca said:

I'm fucking disturbed. Why the hell did I have to open this thread? Btw, yes and no.

I'm curious, what is it that made you this disturbed?

Bluray's revelation of how he was conceived, especially when I read back on the first scenario and see how casually it is written. I mean, did his mom give him all these details of that night? About how afraid she was while that man was on top of her?

The manner in which someone talks about something personal is not always expressive of how he actually feels about it so it should not be taken as a decisive measure on the sentimental value or the resulted suffering of that thing. Its just that some people are not all that great at expressing their most intimate and profound feelings and experiences, specially the negative ones.

In any case, if he's actually casual about it then it should be perceived as a good thing because it suggests that he managed to triumph over a painful reality and reconcile with the injustice that was inflicted on his mother and him too. The same could be said about his mother since she managed to find the strength to tell her son about such a horrible experience. I personally hope that this is actually the case for evil and wickedness are inevitable in this life. People will always inflict pain and injustice on you and the best you can do about it is to never let them have the kind of power over you that would dictate your life and to try and protect yourself and your loved ones to the extent of your ability.

#65 Edited by LJS9502_basic (149437 posts) -

Yes, the OP stated that she didn't want it,but how was the guy supposed to know that? She didn't communicate to him otherwise. And again, people don't go around and ask people (verbally) if it's cool to have sex with them. If you do it, that's fine, but most people don't.

Moreover, she was trying to sleep, but not fully asleep. I would be preaching a different tune if that wasn't the case.

Uh.....you can't just assume someone wants sex without some form of communication. Period. You also can't take advantage of someone because they are "tryint" to sleep.

#66 Edited by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

@GamerForca said:

@GazaAli said:

@GamerForca said:

I'm fucking disturbed. Why the hell did I have to open this thread? Btw, yes and no.

I'm curious, what is it that made you this disturbed?

Bluray's revelation of how he was conceived, especially when I read back on the first scenario and see how casually it is written. I mean, did his mom give him all these details of that night? About how afraid she was while that man was on top of her?

The manner in which someone talks about something personal is not always expressive of how he actually feels about it so it should not be taken as a decisive measure on the sentimental value or the resulted suffering of that thing. Its just that some people are not all that great at expressing their most intimate and profound feelings and experiences, specially the negative ones.

In any case, if he's actually casual about it then it should be perceived as a good thing because it suggests that he managed to triumph over a painful reality and reconcile with the injustice that was inflicted on his mother and him too. The same could be said about his mother since she managed to find the strength to tell her son about such a horrible experience. I personally hope that this is actually the case for evil and wickedness are inevitable in this life. People will always inflict pain and injustice on you and the best you can do about it is to never let them have the kind of power over you that would dictate your life and to try and protect yourself and your loved ones to the extent of your ability.

I'm actually conflicted about the issue, because I didn't learn about it until I was eighteen, after my father died at the age of sixty six. You see, when I was about four years old, my father gained full custody of me by telling the courts that my mother went back to Jamaica (she was born there) permanently, which was a lie. As a result, between the ages of four and eighteen, I saw my mother only a handful of times and never knew the truth. I grew up with my father and he loved me very much, so I saw him as a good father and still do. However, now I see him as a good man who had a serious demon in his closet; perhaps I'm biased because he's my father and was good to me.

Anyhow, the situation strained the relationship I was trying to build with my mother after getting into contact with her. She didn't feel comfortable around me because of my disagreements with her regarding religion and her forcing my half brother and half sister to follow her beliefs (e.g. go to Church and read the Bible all day on Saturday), which they obviously didn't like. She also didn't feel comfortable around me because I look just like my father, the man whom she hated. Whenever I'd go over to her house, she'd talk to me very briefly, leave me with my half brother and half sister, and retreat into her bedroom. The last time I saw her was five years ago.

#67 Posted by Iszdope (9383 posts) -

Yikes.

#68 Posted by chaoscougar1 (36697 posts) -

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

Your head mate
God damn
Odd duck

#69 Edited by SpartanMSU (3428 posts) -

@Barbariser: I don't really know that "trying to sleep" is a valid argument. My girlfriend has came onto me while I was trying to sleep and vice versa. Actually sleeping is a different story.

Non-verbal communication is how most consensual sex starts I'd say. Unless you're in a relationship. If you're making out with a girl in a bed and you slide your hand down her pants after awhile and she either says "no", yanks your hand out, etc, then you stop. Vice versa for the girl. If you say "hey, wanna have sex?" that's generally going to ruin the mood. Generally the girl is expecting the guy to make the first move.

In the first story I'm leaning towards rape but not sure due to legal reasons. I find it hard to believe she was just laying there when he just flopped on her and started having sex. There must have been sometime when the girl indicated in the slightest way that she didn't want it. Like I said though, it's extremely creepy and disgusting.

#70 Edited by Flubbbs (2786 posts) -

another BluRayHiDef gem

#71 Posted by Master_Live (13591 posts) -

@Iszdope said:

Dead men don't rape.

Sure, but you can rape dead men.

#72 Edited by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

#74 Posted by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@evildead6789 said:

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

Why did you have to use a "massive black man" as an example? Are you trying to say that Black men are repulsive?

Do I really have to explain it? No I won't, this has nothing to do with racism

#75 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

Why did you use a "massive black man" as an example? Are you implying that Black men are repulsive? Also, where are you from?

#76 Edited by toast_burner (21121 posts) -

@evildead6789 said:

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

Why did you use a "massive black man" as an example? Are you implying that Black men are repulsive? Also, where are you from?

I think he was referring to the stereotype of black people having big penises. Obviously a larger penis would be more painful and therefore more unpleasant.

#77 Posted by Sword-Demon (6869 posts) -

Both No.

The first one may be statutory rape, depending on the area, but if she simply let him do what he wanted without any sort of resistance, then it isn't rape, regardless of whether she wanted it or not.

As for the second one, she consented to having sex and never asked him to stop. The resistance seems to be more about slowing him down.

#78 Posted by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

@evildead6789 said:

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

Why did you use a "massive black man" as an example? Are you implying that Black men are repulsive? Also, where are you from?

I think he was referring to the stereotype of black people having big penises. Obviously a larger penis would be more painful and therefore more unpleasant.

Thanks for stating the obvious and I don't mean this in a bad way. Sometimes, as a european, I forget how sensitive the word black can be amongst americans.

#79 Posted by bobaban (10513 posts) -

No and No. Both times bitches deserved what they got

#80 Posted by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Shottayouth13- said:

@korvus said:

@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

That's a really shitty thing to say, man...So the "However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen" is negligible? Being afraid for your life is fair game because you didn't explicitly say no?

How's the guy supposed to know that she's afraid? Did she make that clear, make any fuss, resist even a bit? According to the scenario, no she didn't. The guy's working off the information he's given.

@toast_burner said:
@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

That's like saying not tackling a bank robber means you wanted to be robbed so he didn't actually do anything wrong. There are people who would kill you if you try to resist them. Some times the safest option is to let them do what they want and hope it ends quickly.

Except that stealing is always wrong and illegal, while there is nothing wrong with sex it and of itself.

@Barbariser said:
@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

What kind of fucked up logic is that? This is one of the biggest problems with rape culture, we have assholes making all kinds of shitty justifications up even when they've been explicitly told it was non-consensual.

Define consent. Is it some written, formal agreement? It's quite impossible to have sex with a woman who doesn't want it unless she's forcibly raped. Lack of any form of resistance (verbal and nonverbal) gives a clear answer of consent.

So you invite someone over because she has no place to stay, you jump on top of her halfway through the night without even having any sort of talk about what you're going to do, without her telling you she wants you or otherwise indicate that (going by the information we've got, as you said) and then check if she struggles/screams/panics; if not and she just lays there, limp as a dead fish she definitely wants you; I mean, we all know that "submissive trembling bitches want it bad", right? (This is sarcasm, by the way). You do know that your mind and body can lock up out of sheer panic, right? Just because you can do something to a woman, doesn't mean she wants it, and it definitely doesn't mean you should. The sentence "It's quite impossible to have sex with a woman who doesn't want it" is also disturbing, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. Did the women who had an orgasm during a rape wanted it after all?

You really need to pick up on some social queues man; are you sure every girl you've been with wanted it? After what I read from you tonight, I'm not sure and I really hope if I ever have a daughter she doesn't go anywhere near guys who think like you...Don't get me wrong, I don't know you and I don't know your life, but to me anything other than a straight up "yes" or any sign of desire towards the act BEFORE I do anything is a resounding NO in my book, and the fact that it's not for you is a bit scary, to be honest.

@thegerg said:

Dude, dial back the creepiness.

Holy f'in shit...I agree with a thegerg post. I'm getting drunk tonight!

You're a guy that makes me think of the league of morons.

You see rapist and pedophiles everywhere .Just like you saw an angry black man everywhere in the past. Media has fucked you up so much and you don't even realize it.

I suppose you think a 10 year old that lifts up a girls skirt has to be condenmed for life too lol. Having said that , necrophelia isn't wrong at all, they don't know it anyway, (sarcasm)

Anyway the league of morons

#81 Posted by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@evildead6789 said:

@BluRayHiDef said:

Disclaimer: Rape is a very touchy subject, so I'd like to make it clear that this thread's purpose is to discuss the matter seriously.

__________________

Do you consider the following situations to be rape?

1. A seventeen year old girl runs away from home and while walking down the street, a man in his forties approaches her and asks her why she's outside alone late at night. She tells him that she's run away from home, so he offers her the opportunity to stay in a spare bedroom at his home. She accepts and while she's lying down in the spare bedroom trying to fall asleep, the man enters and proceeds to have sex with her. She never resists, neither physically nor verbally, and allows him to have his way. However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen. Is this rape, in your opinion?

2. A nineteen year old woman signs up for a pornographic video shoot. During the shoot, she experiences pain and places her hands on the man's pelvis to minimize his thrusts and moves around a lot to distract herself from the pain. However, she never tells the male actor to stop. Is this rape, in your opinion?

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

2. Nineteen year old females are not women, they're girls. Where I live pornography is forbidden below 21 (but drinking age is 16, take that american morons) . But it isn't rape, she can say that the actor has to stop.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

Why did you use a "massive black man" as an example? Are you implying that Black men are repulsive? Also, where are you from?

I m from belgium

#82 Posted by Korvus (2315 posts) -

@evildead6789: What the hell? I didn't even mention any black men, angry or otherwise...

#83 Posted by SluttyTeerex (10 posts) -

1. yes. but that's so dumb of the girl to say yes to staying at his house, didn't her parents teach her anything?

2. no, she signed up for sex, but if she would've told the guy to stop and if he still continued, then yes that would've been rape.

#84 Edited by GreySeal9 (23921 posts) -

@bobaban said:

No and No. Both times bitches deserved what they got

Was wondering when some callous dumbass would chime in with something like this.

#85 Edited by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@bobaban said:

No and No. Both times bitches deserved what they got

You're a good fella'. Don't be a wise guy.

#86 Posted by toast_burner (21121 posts) -

didn't her parents teach her anything?

Considering she ran away from home. Probably not.

#87 Posted by LittleMac19 (1638 posts) -

1. Yes.

2. No.

#88 Posted by Meinhard1 (6740 posts) -

1. This definitely grey area. The fact that he is older, and that he his allowing her to stay in his home puts the young woman in an uncomfortable situation. (Particularly one who just ran away and may be emotionally uncertain / unstable). She could have been afraid, or unsure. It's unfair to her that while the man's actions were clearly premeditated, she had to make a snap decision on how to respond to this unusual circumstance.

And again, shes very young and had just ran away from home. A dumb thing to do, but she may not yet be emotionally mature. Normally someone in this situation will walk around outside, maybe spend the night at a friends, work things out, and movie on.

Now, the fact is that she didn't resist, at all. But from what I brought up above, it *seems* like she was taken advantage of, at least.

2. This female of chose to do porn. It's unfortunate she had this negative experience but if she didn't actually try to end the shoot / vocalize displeasure then you can't call it rape.

#89 Edited by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@korvus said:

@evildead6789: What the hell? I didn't even mention any black men, angry or otherwise...

Yes but you see rapists in people that aren't any. It's the sickness of society today. The sickness of the past (and it's partially still here) was the angry black man, media made it this way to stigmatize black people as criminals.

If the girl doesn't say no, she doesn't say no. I understand someone can be paralyzed with fear, but that's plain obvious. It's the same as not having sex with someone that's unconscious. There's also something like courting or hunting or whatever you want to call it. Girls want to be fucked, and boys want to fuck, it's just nature.

Some like it different than others, courting culture is something that you can discuss about for ages and ages. Some are idiots , some are masters at it. Some are so good at courting, that the girl afterwards regrets their decision but that also works the other way around. Someone that's a master at courting won't ask, it doesn't work that way. A lot of girls are not impressed with guys that ask... It kinda ruins the moment.

For the ones that can't read between the lines or can't read the non verbal signs then the girl has to say no if she doesn't want it, she can also push him away and walk away. Imagine someone wants to have sex with you and you don't want it, like in a homosexual way. I'm sure you will make him understand you don't want it, even if you're scared.

If the girl or the boy has an anxiety disorder or any other disorder that keeps them from saying no, well than it can be very difficult for the other person. If you kiss someone and they kiss you back, well you can say whatever you want then but that's not rape, if certain age requirements are met anyway..

It's different when somebody skips the kiss off course , or the touching but even then it's not like this is written down or anything that this can't happen. The girl can say it's sexuall assault of course, but a master at courting will always follow the order of things. It's not because someone is an idiot at courting you have to condemn them a rapist. If the girl doesn't want it but something keeps her from saying no and the other person doesn't know abouti it, well then that's is just sad. Sad for both parties, because as painfull it is to be raped, it's painfull to be called a rapist when you aren't one as well.

Rape only happens when there's no consent, if the other person has reason to believe it's consentual then he can't be called a rapist, when he is sane of course. Then it's just the girl that is insane. You can't just have sex with somebody and say afterwards you did it out of fear, if there was no reason to have any fear. The 17 year old girl is of course debatable but this all depends in what culture you live in. That doesn't mean i approve of it course, but I'm not an idiot at courting and i'm not that desperate as wel (but pretty desperate though lol)

You could say he took advantage of her, but you could also say he wanted to comfort her. If a girl is a certain age and she doesn't say no (or gives any signs whatsoever that the other person can understand) when someone wants to make out with her , then it's not right to call that person a rapist.

#90 Posted by Barbariser (6697 posts) -

@Barbariser: I don't really know that "trying to sleep" is a valid argument. My girlfriend has came onto me while I was trying to sleep and vice versa. Actually sleeping is a different story.

Non-verbal communication is how most consensual sex starts I'd say. Unless you're in a relationship. If you're making out with a girl in a bed and you slide your hand down her pants after awhile and she either says "no", yanks your hand out, etc, then you stop. Vice versa for the girl. If you say "hey, wanna have sex?" that's generally going to ruin the mood. Generally the girl is expecting the guy to make the first move.

In the first story I'm leaning towards rape but not sure due to legal reasons. I find it hard to believe she was just laying there when he just flopped on her and started having sex. There must have been sometime when the girl indicated in the slightest way that she didn't want it. Like I said though, it's extremely creepy and disgusting.

My point was that the girl was definitely not going to be giving "nonverbal" consent like you describe (after all, when you are trying to sleep, are you in any way signalling your girlfriend for sex?), and that it was possible from the rapist's perspective that she was already asleep. And in your circumstance, you are in a relationship, so you have a history of intimacy, your girlfriend's probably not stronger than you physically, you're comfortable enough with each other to refuse without fearing retaliation, .etc.

If you didn't want sex at a specific time, you wouldn't have any reason not to refuse your partner (same for your girlfriend), whereas the TC's mom was in a radically different situation. Legally, judges and juries have very different attitudes towards rape, so they may or may not have convicted him. Lack of refusal doesn't necessarily mean that consent was given, whereas lack of consent definitely means that consent wasn't given.

No rape

1. If the girl is seventeen she's old enough to say no, girls won't have sex if they don't want to. It's not that the man threatened her or anything. However if the man knew she would do it because she's affraid then it's rape, but no one can really know that, people are not mindreaders. In some countries it's illegal though at that age difference but not where I live. Having said that, the man is kinda of a douche bag, but he's not a rapist.

A lot of 17 year old girls want to get laid , don't forget that. Some even want 40 year old dicks. I don't really approve of it though, I'm 36 and I wouldn't go near a 17 year old, not if it's for sex anyway but you have to realize how serious of a crime rape is and this isn't it.

Stupid questions, If a girl doesn't want it , it's always pretty obvious. Even when they say no, and then yes, yes yes then it's not really a no is it.

Imagine if someone tries to have sex with you when you don't want it (think massive black man), I'm sure you will make it clear that you don't want it lol

*massive pile of bullshit snipped out*

Are you fucking retarded? You literally just claimed that it's "obvious" when a girl doesn't want to have sex or when she's afraid. Guess what, the scenario explicitly tells us that the girl definitely didn't want it and that she was scared. By your own logic, these things would have been obvious to the man, ergo he knew he didn't have consent and that means that he was intentionally committing a rape.

#92 Edited by Korvus (2315 posts) -

@evildead6789: See? When you bother to explain your arguments I don't mind debating with you, and it's obvious that even though our views are not completely different in this subject, we disagree in the details. It's just when you resort to mocking and insulting and going as far as creating a thread to call me a moron that I question whether it's worth it replying to you at all.

If you disagree with me, you're more than welcome to do so, but in order for us to have a civilised discussion I'd much rather an answer like the last one you gave me than the previous one =) Thank you for at least being respectful in your follow up.

#93 Edited by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@korvus said:

@evildead6789: See? When you bother to explain your arguments I don't mind debating with you, and it's obvious that even though our views are not completely different in this subject, we disagree in the details. It's just when you resort to mocking and insulting and going as far as creating a thread to call me a moron that I question whether it's worth it replying to you at all.

If you disagree with me, you're more than welcome to do so, but in order for us to have a civilised discussion I'd much rather an answer like the last one you gave me than the previous one =) Thank you for at least being respectful in your follow up.

I think it's highly immoral to start calling other people rapist out of nowhere, or give some some inclanation towards that anyway when it clearly isn't true.

You said 'You really need to pick up on some social queues man; are you sure every girl you've been with wanted it? After what I read from you tonight, I'm not sure and I really hope if I ever have a daughter she doesn't go anywhere near guys who think like you...'

You replied this on a part that you put in bold in another guy's post She said nothing, did nothing, she just laid there. In the guy's mind, everything is fair game because she didn't communicate otherwise.

Sorry, but if you're implying that he's a rapist, then you're either stupid or highly immoral. I hope my post made you bit smarter and I only bothered with these arguments because your kind is a threat to human civilization. I know you probably expected courtesy but maybe you should think twice before implying someone is a rapist and think about the consequences this can have.

Some women that want it lay there like a deat cat too, I'm sure a lot of men that read this will understand what I'm trying to say. Some women just don't get turned on, or some enjoy it in silence and rest or do this as a favor for there husbands. Thank goodness I've never met none of this women but I have a friend who had a girlfriend like that, and he had sex with her more than once, and she was coming over to him.

Maybe you can talk about rape if someone actually get charged, and even then if he's not found guilty you should shut up. Our society isn't perfect, but this will change in the future, calling someone a rapist while he isn't, is just plain criminal.

And I'm not talking about women in question here, you're just another guy.

#94 Posted by evildead6789 (6817 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

That's a really shitty thing to say, man...So the "However, she's afraid and doesn't want what's happening to her to happen" is negligible? Being afraid for your life is fair game because you didn't explicitly say no?

How's the guy supposed to know that she's afraid? Did she make that clear, make any fuss, resist even a bit? According to the scenario, no she didn't. The guy's working off the information he's given.

@toast_burner said:
@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

That's like saying not tackling a bank robber means you wanted to be robbed so he didn't actually do anything wrong. There are people who would kill you if you try to resist them. Some times the safest option is to let them do what they want and hope it ends quickly.

Except that stealing is always wrong and illegal, while there is nothing wrong with sex it and of itself. Amazing how stupid some people actually are, i have to read through like a dozen posts before I find someone in here with a brain.

@Barbariser said:
@Shottayouth13- said:

@toast_burner: Well, not resisting is a pretty good sign that they want it.

Being underage is the only way I can classify the first instance as rape.

What kind of fucked up logic is that? This is one of the biggest problems with rape culture, we have assholes making all kinds of shitty justifications up even when they've been explicitly told it was non-consensual.

Define consent. Is it some written, formal agreement? It's quite impossible to have sex with a woman who doesn't want it unless she's forcibly raped. Lack of any form of resistance (verbal and nonverbal) gives a clear answer of consent.

#95 Edited by Korvus (2315 posts) -
#96 Edited by elkoldo (879 posts) -

I might be late, as the thread seems to have diverged from its path , nevertheless :

1.yes

2.......n......o(wish I could say yes, but she had agreed to this shit)

As for the second case, I gotta say there's no such thing as a 19 yro woman.A 19 yro gal, is a gal, no matter what.Also I hope both stories are fictional, miles away from reality.

#97 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@elkoldo said:

I might be late, as the thread seems to have diverged from its path , nevertheless :

1.yes

2.......n......o(wish I could say yes, but she had agreed to this shit)

As for the second case, I gotta say there's no such thing as a 19 yro woman.A 19 yro gal, is a gal, no matter what.Also I hope both stories are fictional, miles away from reality.

They are both true. In regard to the second one, the two male actors involved ejaculated on the side of the girl's face, which she clearly didn't like. They embarrassed her.

#98 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -
#99 Posted by elkoldo (879 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef: I can't still say she's quite innocent, I mean when she agreed to this mess, she should've figured a lot of unpleasantness would one way or another come out.As a naive 19 yro child I'd say it's 40 percent her fault,60 percent the pornography staff's, including the director and the two jerk-offs.

These stories are just perfect examples of what mankind is truly capable of.