C++ Programming?

Hi guys. I recently had an urge to teach myself C++. I was wondering though, seeing as I love video games im thinking I might want to try and teacch myself videogame programming. Anyone out there have any knowledge of C++? Do you think it would be wise to jump straight into videogame programming or learn C++ first then work towards videogame programming?

I would recommend starting with Flash and ActionScript.

C++ can be daunting for most people, let alone game development, which tends to have a very different paradigm compared to traditional programming. Having said that, there are C++ game programming books/tutorials for complete beginners.

I would still start wth Flash.

Personally, I urge you to learn C, not C++.British_Azimio

For self learning? Well, hell, why not go for Assembly?

You must learn C++ and it's basics. Creating games is a more complicated process which requires experience and large quantum of knowledge of the language you decide to use. Start with the basics of C++ and learn to make small basic programs then go up in the ladder. Also expand knowledge of languages by learning some Java, BASIC, and Flash when you feel ready.

I think you should learn the programming basics first. Make sure you know about pointers, objects, data structures and all that good stuff. Doesnt really matter what language you use, the basics apply to every language. I wouldnt really suggest C++ as a beginner, Id do something really high level like java or low level like C first then go up or down the ladder of abstractions.

[QUOTE="British_Azimio"]Personally, I urge you to learn C, not C++.XaosII

For self learning? Well, hell, why not go for Assembly?

C++ is a big, complicated language - if it's your first, you'd be better off trying something like C or Python. Probably C since you'll then be better-placed to learn C++.

Everyone always says don't start with C++ but i did and was fine besides it is the industry standard when it comes to games so id def get started on it asap if that's your goal. That, java and C are probably the 3 most used coding languages and that have a ton of similarities between them so learn one of those and it usually isn't so hard to go and learn the rest. Also for now i would just focus on learning the language and doing simple stuff. Game programming is like a quantum leap and you will almost certainly not be ready for that for quite some time.

I don't know why poeple are suggesting C.

Look, programming at a grunt level, requires reading through about 4 books of a programming language, lots of websites and online tutorials, and lots, and lots of practice. You gotta program. A LOT to learn programming. That kind of dedication will net you enough skill to possibly pass a certificaiton test or two and maybe land a job as an entry level programmer.

If you want to do more than that, architect large programs, become an expert at some process/design level, do serious software engineering you'll need years of practicla experience in a challenging programming position and/or a 4 or 6 year degree in programming from a decent university.

There are many examples of indie devs at a self-taught level of programming making successful games though - it's just that that's probably not the type of programmer working on say the AI for the next Unreal Engine - atleast not without years of experience and hard work.

I'm not tryint to desuade you from persuing this. Not at all, just know that a proper educaiotn will take you farther, but a self-taught path is a viable, if longer road.

All that being said, I sould strongly suggest you start with C# for the following reasons:

1. It's a direclty marketable skill. .Net programmers are everywhere in the industry.

2. Microsoft supports a game programming API bult around .net and C# which can let you create windows (PC) and xbox games.

3. It's a fairly great languge to start with because it is accessible, it's got huge communities online with tons of tutorials and other online help, and yet it can be highly optimized.

From there is failrly easy to move on to C++.

I first started with C++ and it seemed easy but the concept of pointers through me off. I would first suggest you learn something like python or C# or java. But yeah just like everyone is saying game programming is not easy. Most games have 10+ programmers and the hard part is coordination between everyone.

start with something like java, python, etc to learn programming. C++ isn't taught to CS students until later years of their college life, I wouldn't suggest diving straight into a high level language

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

[QUOTE="British_Azimio"]Personally, I urge you to learn C, not C++.British_Azimio

For self learning? Well, hell, why not go for Assembly?

So C is easier to learn than C++? I want to get a good foothold on programming. Something thats easy to learn at your own pace. Reason I was thinking of C++ is that I hear it is so popular and most programs/games are coded with C++. Guess i'll go with C though and work my way up from there.

start with something like java, python, etc to learn programming. C++ isn't taught to CS students until later years of their college life, I wouldn't suggest diving straight into a high level language

wis3boi

I first started with C++ and it seemed easy but the concept of pointers through me off. I would first suggest you learn something like python or C# or java. But yeah just like everyone is saying game programming is not easy. Most games have 10+ programmers and the hard part is coordination between everyone.

geraldwillkill

Thanks for all the imput guys. All this talk really puts things into prospective. Guess I was was getting alittle carried away there with the videogame programming. Think I will start with C like some of the posts are suggesting. However some people mentioned Phthon. Is that a popular language or just easy to get into?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

start with something like java, python, etc to learn programming. C++ isn't taught to CS students until later years of their college life, I wouldn't suggest diving straight into a high level language

Nick3306

yup when i was a freshman and i took my first cs class we were using C++. I mean its really not as bad as people make it out to be the key is to start out very simple and make sure you you have a firm grip on the finer aspects of the language.

I don't know why poeple are suggesting C.

Look, programming at a grunt level, requires reading through about 4 books of a programming language, lots of websites and online tutorials, and lots, and lots of practice. You gotta program. A LOT to learn programming. That kind of dedication will net you enough skill to possibly pass a certificaiton test or two and maybe land a job as an entry level programmer.

If you want to do more than that, architect large programs, become an expert at some process/design level, do serious software engineering you'll need years of practicla experience in a challenging programming position and/or a 4 or 6 year degree in programming from a decent university.

There are many examples of indie devs at a self-taught level of programming making successful games though - it's just that that's probably not the type of programmer working on say the AI for the next Unreal Engine - atleast not without years of experience and hard work.

I'm not tryint to desuade you from persuing this. Not at all, just know that a proper educaiotn will take you farther, but a self-taught path is a viable, if longer road.

All that being said, I sould strongly suggest you start with C# for the following reasons:

1. It's a direclty marketable skill. .Net programmers are everywhere in the industry.

2. Microsoft supports a game programming API bult around .net and C# which can let you create windows (PC) and xbox games.

3. It's a fairly great languge to start with because it is accessible, it's got huge communities online with tons of tutorials and other online help, and yet it can be highly optimized.

From there is failrly easy to move on to C++.

Kinthalis

Pretty much this.

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

I don't know why poeple are suggesting C.

Look, programming at a grunt level, requires reading through about 4 books of a programming language, lots of websites and online tutorials, and lots, and lots of practice. You gotta program. A LOT to learn programming. That kind of dedication will net you enough skill to possibly pass a certificaiton test or two and maybe land a job as an entry level programmer.

If you want to do more than that, architect large programs, become an expert at some process/design level, do serious software engineering you'll need years of practicla experience in a challenging programming position and/or a 4 or 6 year degree in programming from a decent university.

There are many examples of indie devs at a self-taught level of programming making successful games though - it's just that that's probably not the type of programmer working on say the AI for the next Unreal Engine - atleast not without years of experience and hard work.

I'm not tryint to desuade you from persuing this. Not at all, just know that a proper educaiotn will take you farther, but a self-taught path is a viable, if longer road.

All that being said, I sould strongly suggest you start with C# for the following reasons:

1. It's a direclty marketable skill. .Net programmers are everywhere in the industry.

2. Microsoft supports a game programming API bult around .net and C# which can let you create windows (PC) and xbox games.

3. It's a fairly great languge to start with because it is accessible, it's got huge communities online with tons of tutorials and other online help, and yet it can be highly optimized.

From there is failrly easy to move on to C++.

MlauTheDaft

Pretty much this.

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

You'll need to first know C++ and other programming languages before making a video game :PNiKva

It's hard enough trying to program simple C++ stuff that runs in a Windows Command Prompt.:lol:

Programming is one of my weak points though.

Edit:

Oh. Good luck. May you be much better at programming than I am.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

I don't know why poeple are suggesting C.

Look, programming at a grunt level, requires reading through about 4 books of a programming language, lots of websites and online tutorials, and lots, and lots of practice. You gotta program. A LOT to learn programming. That kind of dedication will net you enough skill to possibly pass a certificaiton test or two and maybe land a job as an entry level programmer.

If you want to do more than that, architect large programs, become an expert at some process/design level, do serious software engineering you'll need years of practicla experience in a challenging programming position and/or a 4 or 6 year degree in programming from a decent university.

There are many examples of indie devs at a self-taught level of programming making successful games though - it's just that that's probably not the type of programmer working on say the AI for the next Unreal Engine - atleast not without years of experience and hard work.

I'm not tryint to desuade you from persuing this. Not at all, just know that a proper educaiotn will take you farther, but a self-taught path is a viable, if longer road.

All that being said, I sould strongly suggest you start with C# for the following reasons:

1. It's a direclty marketable skill. .Net programmers are everywhere in the industry.

2. Microsoft supports a game programming API bult around .net and C# which can let you create windows (PC) and xbox games.

3. It's a fairly great languge to start with because it is accessible, it's got huge communities online with tons of tutorials and other online help, and yet it can be highly optimized.

From there is failrly easy to move on to C++.

way2funny

Pretty much this.

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

Indeed, which is why C# is a good place to start.

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

Pretty much this.

MlauTheDaft

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

Indeed, which is why C# is a good place to start.

Yeah, either start high, or low, but definately not in the middle.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

way2funny

Indeed, which is why C# is a good place to start.

Yeah, either start high, or low, but definately not in the middle.

What is C#? I assume its not C? Sorry for being noobish

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

Indeed, which is why C# is a good place to start.

octobermagic

Yeah, either start high, or low, but definately not in the middle.

What is C#? I assume its not C? Sorry for being noobish

C# is like java. Its microsoft's version of a java-like high level language where you dont have to really worry about memory management.

[QUOTE="octobermagic"]

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

Yeah, either start high, or low, but definately not in the middle.

way2funny

What is C#? I assume its not C? Sorry for being noobish

C# is like java. Its microsoft's version of a java-like high level language where you dont have to really worry about memory management.

Not .net right?

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="octobermagic"]

What is C#? I assume its not C? Sorry for being noobish

octobermagic

C# is like java. Its microsoft's version of a java-like high level language where you dont have to really worry about memory management.

Not .net right?

It's .NET and probably the easiest way to get into (C) programming.

start with something like java, python, etc to learn programming. C++ isn't taught to CS students until later years of their college life, I wouldn't suggest diving straight into a high level language

wis3boi

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="octobermagic"]

What is C#? I assume its not C? Sorry for being noobish

octobermagic

C# is like java. Its microsoft's version of a java-like high level language where you dont have to really worry about memory management.

Not .net right?

it is .net

[QUOTE="octobermagic"]

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

C# is like java. Its microsoft's version of a java-like high level language where you dont have to really worry about memory management.

way2funny

Not .net right?

it is .net

Hmmm....and thats considered a beginner language? If so that sounds great.

Anyways TC, I'd recommend you get a book. I found online tutorials crappy compared to a real textbook.

this is the book I used.

Also i dont think anybody mentioned it yet but if you intend to be a video game programmer then another very important aspect you need to build up is your math skills. Video game programming has a ton of it for pretty much everything really. I mean calculus, trig, algebra, linear algebra, geometry and physics its all in there especially if you intend to do 3d games but its even present in 2D games. So if you're math skills aren't up to that lvl then you may want to invest some time into that as well.

All object oriented programming languages have the same principles though the syntax is different.

I recommend starting with a low level scripting language like Lua to learn the basic principles first:

Declaring a Variable
Outputing text
Running a Loop
Running a Switch statement
Creating a method

Then you can then transfer those same concepts into C++

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="octobermagic"]

Not .net right?

octobermagic

it is .net

Hmmm....and thats considered a beginner language? If so that sounds great.

Its not considered beginner, but its a good place to start. Like ive been saying you either want to start at a high level language like c# or java, or low level like C. All programming basics youll learn are the same throughout all languages, so it wont be a waste of time no matter which one you learn

C++ is the first language I learned. It was pretty difficult but bearable. I'd recommend it.

I didn't like programming at first
then i was like
oh wait nm, this is nice

C++ is fine to start with, I started with java.

Java hides a lot of things like pointers, C++ doesn't.

Also have to deal with .h files, etc.

I recommend netbeans for all your programming with cygwin. It's nice to have an IDE.

Or you can just be hardcore and just program in vi, vim, or emacs... or nano if you are crazy

oh and going in with the mentality that you are going to make a game is a bad idea

I actually just recommend just using Linux. It will get you into the programmer mentality much quicker.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

[QUOTE="Kinthalis"]

I don't know why poeple are suggesting C.

Look, programming at a grunt level, requires reading through about 4 books of a programming language, lots of websites and online tutorials, and lots, and lots of practice. You gotta program. A LOT to learn programming. That kind of dedication will net you enough skill to possibly pass a certificaiton test or two and maybe land a job as an entry level programmer.

If you want to do more than that, architect large programs, become an expert at some process/design level, do serious software engineering you'll need years of practicla experience in a challenging programming position and/or a 4 or 6 year degree in programming from a decent university.

There are many examples of indie devs at a self-taught level of programming making successful games though - it's just that that's probably not the type of programmer working on say the AI for the next Unreal Engine - atleast not without years of experience and hard work.

I'm not tryint to desuade you from persuing this. Not at all, just know that a proper educaiotn will take you farther, but a self-taught path is a viable, if longer road.

All that being said, I sould strongly suggest you start with C# for the following reasons:

1. It's a direclty marketable skill. .Net programmers are everywhere in the industry.

2. Microsoft supports a game programming API bult around .net and C# which can let you create windows (PC) and xbox games.

3. It's a fairly great languge to start with because it is accessible, it's got huge communities online with tons of tutorials and other online help, and yet it can be highly optimized.

From there is failrly easy to move on to C++.

way2funny

Pretty much this.

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

Pretty much this.

jeremiah06

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

Did you guys go through both memory management and object oriented programming in depth?

imo its easier for me atleast to seperate memory management, and object oriented programming, then bring them together in c++. Our school did java, c++ then c, but I didnt really get memory management and pointers until our class in C.

Meh... I blew through c++ my freshman year easily... The only thing I ever got less than A+ grades on were recursion... Recursive functions are a major mind-fukk...jeremiah06

Recursion is too important not to master it.

As to the question, I really wish I could answer this concretely. My experience in this was a bit too early in life, and probably a bit too random, to know how someone these days would go about learning the complexity of modern computer programming. I went from Logo to BASIC to Fortran to x86 Assembly to Pascal to C to C++ to Java to C# and now recently Objective C, in the space of about 30 years. The concepts I've learned have been so gradual throughout most of my life that it's hard for me to know how modern students starting out in software development and engineering progress. They have to learn these things at a much faster pace than I had to do, compressed into a much smaller period of time.

However, I do spend a lot of time with other developers as their tech lead or architect, depending on the product line. And I can say that I've seen some trends among developers who start off with a very high level language like Java or C# and then have real issues going to languages that put such a resource burden on the developer, are not object oriented, or require code to diverge to accomodate differences between platforms (both C and C++ fit that bill). Recently a few devs whose experience was in C# and Java had to take an SDK that was written by me in Java and C# and write a functionally equivalent SDK in both C++ and C, to accomodate products that execute in Apache server and within other native programs, and they went way over their estimates because they struggled to deal with translating and dealing with those three aspects that OO VM languages obfuscate. At some point I stepped and gave them some help and pointers to get past some of this (like using so-called "Object-C" patterns to help translate the object oriented code into C), but even then I found them struggling with basic memory management. It took several months to clean up all of the issues related to that, which they didn't really handle properly from the beginning. Even when we cleaned up those issues, I found that much of the code was written for only one or two platforms, not the eight that we actually supported.

So I guess if I were to suggest something, I'd suggest learning to deal with things like that up front. Learning a langauge like C first, then C++, and then Java, would be a path I'd pick rather than going in the reverse.

Granted, I have no evidence that this would help you in your case. It's just how I did it over a much longer period of time, and I never really struggled with the new concepts as they were sort of gradually built upon each other. It's a bit like learning math -- you don't start out learning Calculus, you rather build up to that, and if you can do it over a long period of time (and practice all of the new concepts by putting them to use in your own programs), you can master all of these things and not find yourself struggling with languages that don't do everything for you.

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]

Pretty much this.

jeremiah06

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

i found them simple. I mean in the end you are just having a function call itself over and over. I guess the thinking behind it can get tricky but then i just think of as traveling up and down a pyramid.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="way2funny"]

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

Gen007

i found them simple. I mean in the end you are just having a function call itself over and over. I guess the thinking behind it can get tricky but then i just think of as traveling up and down a pyramid.

I went from Logo to BASIC to Fortran to x86 Assembly to Pascal to C to C++ to Java to C# and now recently Objective C, in the space of about 30 years.

m0zart

I followed almost exactly the same path, with the exception of the first and last items. (MonoTouch/MonoDevelop has so far allowed me to dabble in iOS development without having to learn Objective C.)

And it's precisely because I followed a similar path that I can readily appreciate your anecdote concerning the value of starting with C/C++ before proceeding to C#, ECMAScript-based languages, etc.

And for the TC: If it's specifically game programming that interests you, then learning the language is really at most half of the job ...

You'll also have to become familiar with an API (application programming interface) that's suitable for game-programming: something like Direct3D or OpenGL. For 3D game-programming, a basic knowledge of matrix math will also be useful, or perhaps even essential. Existing game engines can hide or abstract the APIs and the math to some extent, but it's always a good idea to know what's going on "under the hood".

Don't be discouraged, though: Learning the language and the technology is all part of the fun of becoming a developer!

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="way2funny"]

The reason c++ is hard is because it brings in both pointers (lower level programming) and objects (higher level programming). All the basics are the basics no matter what language you use, but pointers andobjects are the two big ones that differentiate everything. Thats why its best to either start off high (c# / java) because it abstracts pointers where you dont have to worry about memory management, or c, where it doesnt have object oriented features but has all the memory management. c++ has both, which is why if your a beginner you may be overwhelmed with both.

way2funny

i found them simple. I mean in the end you are just having a function call itself over and over. I guess the thinking behind it can get tricky but then i just think of as traveling up and down a pyramid.