Burning the American Flag

This sort of thing has been going on and off. There have been stories of protesters burning the flag, people getting arrested, counter-protests, people getting beaten up, and etc, etc.

Recently, an old guy beat up some hippie over the flag being burnt but the funniest stuff was the facebook comments with everyone acting like hardcore keyboard warriors. LINK for the lulz

That said, as much as a I deplore the act of flag burning, Texas v. Johnson determined that flag burning is protected under the first amendment, and while I disagree with the act itself, I wouldn't have it any other way, nor would I punch anyone over it (because, you know, assault charges). Our Constitution and rights are what define us and what we should really protect and defend in the 21st century. Also, people can skate around it (Burn a flag with 51 stars and it'll probably be legal). But what do you think OT?

Should flag burning be protected under the first amendment because you're a fucking liberal hippie and hate America? Or should flag burning be illegal because you like to shit on the Constitution and are an ig'nant hick?

bump for effect

I would prefer to allow people to have the right to do it for the simple reason that it would be a reminder to them that as bad as they think it is here, it could be worse. There are countries out there that consider insulting the head of state an act of treason but you can go on Google and see all kinds of pictures that insult Obama, or insulted Bush when he was president and it's protected speech. You can even buy American Flag toilet paper if you look hard enough.

Fact of the matter is they have the right to do it and I have the right to tell them how I feel because of what they did, as long as what I'm telling them doesn't go into the territory of communicating a threat.

It doesn't offend me when someone burns the flag but I don't see the point in empty acts of protest. By empty I mean if you do something like that in a country where it could land you in prison then it means something. In the west it's something people do to protest without having to take any real risk or stand.

Ditto to everything said. There are 1st world "free" countries that will go as far as to hold hate tribunals for opinions shared on the internet.

I don't like it happening but I respect peoples right to do it.. doesn't protect them from getting their ass kicked though.

@drunk_pi: Bumping a thread is considered disruptive posting and frowned upon here. Something to keep in mind. :)

Kind of a shitty thing to do, I don't respect people who do it.

But I'm glad the option exists. Banning it is a step towards becoming shit hole russia.

It's a piece of cloth.

I think it should be protected under the first amendment, I don't hate America, but let those that do, I have a neutral view of the U.S.(as of now), so yeah.

I guess burning the flag could be interpreted in many ways.

Why are people burning flags?

Who is burning flags?

I don't fathom why the constitution of a country would protect its citizens' rights to burn that country's flag. To me it sounds perverse. Even worse, I don't understand citizens saying other fellow citizens are entitled to burning their country's flag. What exactly are you all doing in that sham of a society, just dissolve it already and go your separate ways.

What does that even mean? Why would you respect people's right to do something you find reprehensible?

The average individual believes he likes and dislikes things based on their morality and utility. He believes what he likes is moral and advantageous and what he dislikes is immoral and disadvantageous. You stated that you don't like it, therefore, you believe it to be either immoral, harmful or both. Consequently, why would you respect their right to do it? It'd have been reasonable if you expressed how you accept it as a reality you can't change, but to respect it? This is ludicrous.

I wouldn't ever burn a Spanish flag. I believe freedom of speech should protect stuff like manifestations, marches, criticism, booing and the such, but burning a flag crosses the line between free speech and hate speech, which, despite being constitutional in the states (now I know heh), is something I don't agree with.

Then again it depends on the flag and what it represents... Burning the flag of a country just because it represents said country is something I find deplorable, but if someone were to burn a confederate flag understanding it as a symbol of racism, then whatever, light up.

I guess you have to believe in freedom of speech to get it.

Burning a flag is pretty gay.

Flag burning is recognized not only as an action, but as free speech. Thus it is protected under the first amendment of our constitution.

I have no respect for the people that do desecrate our flag. I think it's a deplorable act, but they have the right to do it.

Because you don't respect the right of people to have freedom of speech.

We're doing far more than your society is.

People should be allowed to burn flags, any flag. I myself wouldn't mind burning the flags of other countries.

The only caveat is, if a person is in the military or civil service, they better get discharged or resign first if they want to mess with the flag.

@airshocker: I think in Spain burning the flag is outright illegal to burn the national flag. Even if I don't agree with the act of burning the flag, I think I prefer the case of the USA where it's protected nonetheless by the constitution.

The only and only time anyone would need to burn our U.S Flag is if the flag on the polls [school polls for example] has been warned out for so long since flags do get ruin by rainstorms and as such, when a new flag get's replace, you do not just throw the flag in the dumpster, [it's totally disrespectful] you'll burn it and it never considers disrespectful. Back in my high school years, we were giving the honor to pull down the ruin flag and burn it with honor.

I agree. Burning a flag to dispose of it because it's damaged or worn from use really has never been an issue.

I understand why it's done in protest, though. It's a powerful statement. One that shouldn't be made lightly.

I think you should be allowed to (safely) burn anything you own that doesn't endanger others or damages their property...

EDIT: Looking at the link provided...so shameful...an idiot decides to blame the flag and a bigger idiot solves it with violence...and he punches him WITH THE FLAG...talk about disrespect and contradicting what he was supposedly standing for...solving things with violence, what a "MURICA!" statement right there...if I were an American I wouldn't be pissed at the guy burning a piece of cloth but at the guy who, once again, painted Americans as out-of-control, irrational animals...

But then, a lot of people are actually cheering for him, so I guess these idiots deserve each other...

It is a blessing to live in a country where you can burn the national symbol and not be afraid of punishment.

Its because freedom of speech protects speech you don't like. Civilized societies don't go around locking people up for insulting people/places/things. What use is it to lock up John Doe for burning a flag? You can never have a country or community that will agree on everything, meaning that dissenting opinions are a facet of society.

Its only perverse to the close minded and thin skinned.

I find the the idea of men wearing sandals in public morally depraved, yet I still respect their right to insult themselves by doing so.

@HoolaHoopMan: He's saying if that's the case (that someone would find burning the flag reprehensible but still respect their right to burn it), then consistency would lead one to think that the person doesn't truly find it morally repugnant.

While it's absurd to make burning a piece of fabric illegal or punishable in any way, I think it's incredibly deplorable to burn any national flag. Flags are national symbols and burning them is just incredibly immature and disrespectful of other people's national pride.

In my opinion, the only thing that is sacred in this world is the freedom of individuals to live and do as they please so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights or freedom of others. Let people burn flags if they want to. A flag is only fabric, and the symbolism of it an abstraction with subjective value.

The exact moment you protect it is the exact moment it is no longer a symbol worth burning.

That flag stands for everything that is supposed to make America good, it does not stand for the bad crap. When soldiers die for that flag, for our country, they are not dying because they believe in police brutality or racism, corporate greed, or whatever other negative thing you can come up with. They put the life on the line for the good that flag stands for. To burn the flag is to shit on that and their sacrifice in my opinion.

People who say burning the flag is patriotic have no fucking idea what true patriotism is. The people in videos I see burning our flag obviously hate this country, so **** them. My question is, why don't they just find one they like better and gtfo?

Burn whatever you want. I don't like people that do it, but it's a free country.

burning the nazi flag?

I can't say that I appreciate when people burn the flag (however I would likely be fairly neutral if it was say a flag of North Korea), but yeah putting people in jail or really any sort of punishment would be inappropriate. It pisses people off when people burn the American flag, but maybe we shouldn't feel so strongly about a piece of cloth with a specific print on it. Even if out flag is burned, there are still more flags, life in America goes on, and America continues to go on so who gives a **** about this one person and their hatred? I mean we probably do care, but we really shouldn't.

Flag burning doesn't bother me. If the message they're trying to send by burning a Union Jack is "**** Britain" then how is that any different to them just saying "**** Britain"?

There is no Nazi nation. No nationality to be proud of. The Nazi flag doesn't represent a nation in so much as it represents the slaughter of millions of Jews in concentration camps. It's very different then burning the French national flag or the American flag, both which represent a people and carry with them for many, a sense of national pride. All of which you are legally free to burn even if it's very disrespectful. Although it would lead me to question where the nazi flag came from and why one is burning it. Why not just simply throw it away?

@ferrari2001: it, for a time, represented the German people. Would burning a Nazi flag in the 30s be something you'd be against? How about burning a North Korean flag today?

If it were 1930's yes I would be against burning the national flag of Germany which so happens to be the Nazi flag (it did not yet have the meaning it has today). I hate North Korea but burning their flag is still disrespectful of their people and culture. The leader is a dick that is terrible for their country but most people in North Korea are good people who want nothing more than to live their lives. What could burning their flag possibly accomplish? People hate Americans because we are always disrespecting other cultures and people. Can't we just stop disrespecting one another and actually try and live peacefully?

What if a person burns the flag, not out of protest, but rather in celebration of the very freedoms that we celebrate today? You see, patriotism comes in all shapes and sizes, and criticizing your country and your president is one of them even if it's logical or illogical.

I honestly don't think you know what true patriotism is and if you're going to continue using the line, "Soldiers died for that flag!" my response is that our soldiers died for the very freedoms and liberties we enjoy and even take for granted.

I can't ever recall a time when someone burned a flag out of "celebration" and not protest. Anytime a flag is burned it's done so with negative connotations.

While troops do maintain their First Amendment rights (with tactical exceptions, such as trying to give their commander a piece of their mind in the middle of a battle), they can still face punishment under Article 92 of the UCMJ for desecrating a flag since flag desecration would be violating regulations related to proper flag etiquette members of the military are required to follow.

It may be looked at as a loophole by some on the outside, but it has been challenged before and the courts went in favor of the military prosecutors. The easy way to avoid that if one doesn't want to lose their right to desecrate a flag is to not enlist or accept a commission. If they're already in then yes, they would need to get discharged first.

@GazaAli: The biggest thing that you need to take out of why we are allowed to desecrate the US flag is that we value Freedom of Speech here. There is a very thin list of forms of speech we ban and there is a reason for that. For example, we don't consider child porn as a form of free speech because in order to create it you have to break the law, to possibly include rape of a minor. We don't consider inciting a riot free speech either because of the damage it can cause; looking at the damage the riots we had in Ferguson should show that.

While we will protect your right to say it, we will not protect you from the verbal backlash you will receive for saying it. Donald Trump spoke his mind about what he thinks of illegal immigrants in America and while he had the right to say it, he is feeling the backlash from people and organizations that support illegal immigrants to include NBC dropping his programming. The Westboro Baptist Church loves to bash homosexuals and the military. They have the right to do it but they are shunned as a result by most people here.

That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. The freedoms and liberties we enjoy (which you pointed out) are what the flag stands for. Your name fits, you were obviously drunk when you thought this made sense.

And don't tell me I don't know what patriotism is, I have devoted my entire adult life to serving this country.

In theory, the constitution is founded on individual rights and freedoms. One of those, is freedom of expression. There are people who consider the US government's policies to be unjust or unfair. Some go as far as to express their distaste by burning the flag. I don't agree with them, but they have a right to express their opinion and views, just like I have a right to express my own. I think that speaks of a good society as opposed to a poor one. I'd rather live in a society that allows people to express their opinions, rather than a totalatarian society that allows only one viewpoint.

my country is far stronger than some silly piece of fabric being burnt.

doesn't bother me in the slightest

Resorting to ad hominem attacks is really piss-poor reflection on one's self. As symbolic the flag is, banning the desecration of the flag is an insult to the Constitution, namely the first amendment. Again, I disagree with the act, and while some have committed the act for unpatriotic reasons, others have done it for, in their view, patriotic reasons. The flag is a piece of cloth that will still be around, recreated in one form and other, but the Constitution is what we really stand for and what represents us as a country.

Also enforcing such a law is impractical. Should burning a flag with 51 stars be illegal? Should burning a flag with corporate symbols instead of stars be illegal? What if the 13 stripes were reversed? Also, why is it okay to have the flag in advertisements, clothing, swimwear, towels, toilet paper (it's real, google it), and on guns (your profile pic)? Isn't that defaming and diminishing the value of the flag that represents the entirety of the United States?

I still don't think you know what patriotism is but hey thanks for your service pal.

Where did I state it should be against the law? Funny you prop up this freedom of speech and you shit on mine all in the same message. They have freedom to burn the flag, I have freedom to call them idiot pieces of shit for it.