BREAKING NEWS: 275 U.S. Miltary Personnel Heading to Iraq

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Makhaidos

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#51 Makhaidos
Member since 2013 • 2162 Posts

Wow. Good thing it isn't like ten thousand troops or something. People would be pissed.

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branketra

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#53 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

Also was information about other possible U.S. intervention. President Obama also said that the U.S. is prepared to use "targeted" and "precise" military action in Iraq if necessary. I am sure many know what that could mean.

Doing so could result in being the reason why Iraq forces win. Ideally, they will solve their own issues with minimum casualties.

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: "President Obama emphasized that the U.S. is "not returning to combat.""

We'll see, but that's not really something that he can guarantee. ISIS has a say in that too. Though they're acting as advisers, I doubt that they'll just lay down and not fight if the right situation arises.

Even if those variables are in the equation, he can guarantee the intent which is likely why he did.

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branketra

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#55 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: "President Obama emphasized that the U.S. is "not returning to combat.""

We'll see, but that's not really something that he can guarantee. ISIS has a say in that too. Though they're acting as advisers, I doubt that they'll just lay down and not fight if the right situation arises.

Even if those variables are in the equation, he can guarantee the intent which is likely why he did.

I'm sure he can guarantee his intent, but that's hardly a guarantee of the reality of the situation.

This is not really the place to discuss that sort of thing if only because anyone could be reading it and the same can be said for his press conference.

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branketra

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#57 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: What does it matter if everyone is reading it?

Allow me to explain by telling you a story.

I remember during the first few years of the Iraq War last decade, a news reporter was in the Middle East with American forces. On television, he showed the world American plans for movement. He was soon taken out of that area because he was essentially giving enemy forces U.S. tactical information. Similarly, if the president or someone on the internet gave in-depth information about current plans for U.S. aid, I believe it would be counter-productive.

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branketra

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#60 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: What does it matter if everyone is reading it?

Allow me to explain by telling you a story.

I remember during the first few years of the Iraq War last decade, a news reporter was in the Middle East with American forces. On television, he showed the world American plans for movement. He was soon taken out of that area because he was essentially giving enemy forces U.S. tactical information. Similarly, if the president or someone on the internet gave in-depth information about current plans for U.S. aid, I believe it would be counter-productive.

That has nothing to do with us discussing the fact that the President can't guarantee that the soldiers he deploys to such an unstable area won't be in combat.

I would like to know how it does not.

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Kevlar101

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#62 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts

They are special forces. Not standard soldiers.

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branketra

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#63 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: What does it matter if everyone is reading it?

Allow me to explain by telling you a story.

I remember during the first few years of the Iraq War last decade, a news reporter was in the Middle East with American forces. On television, he showed the world American plans for movement. He was soon taken out of that area because he was essentially giving enemy forces U.S. tactical information. Similarly, if the president or someone on the internet gave in-depth information about current plans for U.S. aid, I believe it would be counter-productive.

That has nothing to do with us discussing the fact that the President can't guarantee that the soldiers he deploys to such an unstable area won't be in combat.

I would like to know how it does not.

One is a discussion of operationally sensitive information. The other is a discussion about the fact that enemy forces also have a say in whether or not combat takes place, and one Commander can't guarantee that his soldiers won't come into contact.

If you think that the fact that warfighters can be drawn into combat against their will is sensitive, you might have a pretty dramatic misunderstanding of reality.

You need not even consider such a thing of me. I am saying that they seem to both be the first one. If you cannot trust the president who talks with military leaders, that being the only thing which will be enough of a guarantee for you is apparent, though only to a certain degree because of this being a text conversation.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#65  Edited By THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25107 Posts

But seriously, I'm feeling burned out about this whole Iraq thing.

(well maybe I care a little about not caring, though)

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branketra

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#66  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: What does it matter if everyone is reading it?

Allow me to explain by telling you a story.

I remember during the first few years of the Iraq War last decade, a news reporter was in the Middle East with American forces. On television, he showed the world American plans for movement. He was soon taken out of that area because he was essentially giving enemy forces U.S. tactical information. Similarly, if the president or someone on the internet gave in-depth information about current plans for U.S. aid, I believe it would be counter-productive.

That has nothing to do with us discussing the fact that the President can't guarantee that the soldiers he deploys to such an unstable area won't be in combat.

I would like to know how it does not.

One is a discussion of operationally sensitive information. The other is a discussion about the fact that enemy forces also have a say in whether or not combat takes place, and one Commander can't guarantee that his soldiers won't come into contact.

If you think that the fact that warfighters can be drawn into combat against their will is sensitive, you might have a pretty dramatic misunderstanding of reality.

You need not even consider such a thing of me. I am saying that they seem to both be the first one. If you cannot trust the president who talks with military leaders, that being the only thing which will be enough of a guarantee for you is apparent, though only to a certain degree because of this being a text conversation.

That country is full of militants conducting combat operations. One can't guarantee that none of the 250 warfighters being deployed won't find himself involved in or the target of one of those operations. Recognizing that is not an OPSEC concern, nor is it a trust issue.

Here we go.

We already discussed that one can guarantee intent, but not always the outcome, so repeating what you and I have said should be unnecessary. Unless you have a source providing trustworthy data that there are going to be less troops sent, they are in total two hundred and seventy five in number. I could go into more detail, but you do not seem to be interested in talking about it since you are saying the same thing, but only with a little more your reasoning elaborated. If I am wrong, I would be happy to continue.

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branketra

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#68  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: You have yet to address your claims that recognizing that the president made claims he can't guarantee is somehow an OPSEC issue or has anything to do with trust.

As a matter of fact, I already did several posts ago in this conversation.

I will say it again one final time:

President Obama has told the world what the United States is going to do for Iraqi-American relations. Whether or not you trust his word or consider what he said to be sufficient is you prerogative. If you feel that my comparison to a past information leak was insufficient, I would like to know how it is not which to this point in time you been lacking an explanation of.

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jun_aka_pekto

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#70  Edited By jun_aka_pekto
Member since 2010 • 25255 Posts

I'm sure the US troops are there for evacuation purposes. Nothing new there.

But, I'm more interested in some things people seem to have glossed over such as CNN reporting ISIS captured an Iraqi chemical weapons complex (as stated on the ticker at the bottom of the TV screen). I thought all such facilities have been dismantled back in the 90's and now CNN is saying otherwise.

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branketra

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#71 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: You have yet to address your claims that recognizing that the president made claims he can't guarantee is somehow an OPSEC issue or has anything to do with trust.

As a matter of fact, I already did several posts ago in this conversation.

I will say it again one final time:

President Obama has told the world what the United States is going to do for Iraqi-American relations. Whether or not you trust his word or consider what he said to be sufficient is you prerogative. If you feel that my comparison to a past information leak was insufficient, I would like to know how it is not which to this point in time you been lacking an explanation of.

"As a matter of fact, I already did several posts ago in this conversation."

No you did not. You made the claim, but did not explain it in a logical manner.

"President Obama has told the world what the United States is going to do for Iraqi-American relations. Whether or not you trust his word or consider what he said to be sufficient is you prerogative."

I do trust that these warfighters are going to Iraq for Iraqi-American relations. That has nothing to do with the fact that the President doesn't have full control of, and can't guarantee that, they won't be involved in combat.

"If you feel that my comparison to a past information leak was insufficient, I would like to know how it is not which to this point in time you been lacking an explanation of."

Because recognizing that the enemy also plays a role in the conflict is not an "information leak." It's simply understanding reality.

In what way does the public knowledge that ISIS is capable of conducting combat operations that could possibly target or include US warfighters against their will violate OPSEC?

You seem to be making a point that is both obvious and unrelated to what I have been talking about. Also, you have asked a question of the same nature. Next, often times, you have claimed illogical things are being said by other users and I when in fact they are actually rational. At this point, I am considering this another conversation with thegerg.

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branketra

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#73 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: "You seem to be making a point that is both obvious and unrelated to what I have been talking about."

I'm talking about the thread topic, and how a commander can't guarantee that his warfighters won't be involved in combat in a situation like this. If you're talking about something else you are posting it in the wrong thread.

Again, in what way does the public knowledge that ISIS is capable of conducting combat operations that could possibly target or include US warfighters against their will violate OPSEC?

No one is arguing against that, yet you continue to repeat yourself for reasons I am unaware of.

I was not referring to ISIS' capability. My focus was on the U.S. troops and their strategy. You can understand that, right?

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branketra

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#75 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@Kevlar101 said:

They are special forces. Not standard soldiers.

Source?

@thegerg said:

"My focus was on the U.S. troops and their strategy. You can understand that, right?"

Then why did you make your initial post on the matter in response to a post that has nothing to do with the U.S. troops and their strategy?

You are telling me that the following comment is unrelated to this thread:

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: "President Obama emphasized that the U.S. is "not returning to combat.""

We'll see, but that's not really something that he can guarantee. ISIS has a say in that too. Though they're acting as advisers, I doubt that they'll just lay down and not fight if the right situation arises.

Hmm.

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branketra

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#77 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg: In that case, I do not know what you are talking about therefore I am unable to give an answer. If you could be more specific, I should be able to.

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branketra

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#79 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg: I remain confused about what you are referring to. At no point did I respond to a post in this thread knowing it was unrelated to the U.S. troops and their strategy. If you could quote when I did that, your questioning would be understood.

---

UPDATE: First U.S. advisers to be deployed are highly trained senior special ops soldiers with experience in Iraq.

Source: Former Major General Spider Marks on CNN live television

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branketra

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#81  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra said:

@thegerg: I remain confused about what you are referring to. At no point did I respond to a post in this thread knowing it was unrelated to the U.S. troops and their strategy. If you could quote when I did that, your questioning would be understood.

I did quote it. Again, you posted "This is not really the place to discuss that sort of thing" (which you later clarified as an OPSEC concern) as a response to "I'm sure he can guarantee his intent, but that's hardly a guarantee of the reality of the situation."

It's from post #55 in this very thread.

For the third time, why did you make your initial post on the matter in response to a post that has nothing to do with the U.S. troops and their strategy?

I find what you are saying to be confusing. That was not my initial post on the matter. My initial post was the opening post of this thread.

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branketra

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#83 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

It was your initial post on the matter of discussing the President's claims and intent as an OPSEC concern. Again, just try to answer the question. How is discussing the President's public claims similar to the leak of sensitive information?

Finally. A question that is actually about something we have been talking about has been asked. I did not say discussing the president's public claims were similar to the leak of sensitive information. Actually, I was implying that if anyone had in-depth details about the U.S.' plans then talking about them here would be counter-productive the efforts of America which is why I intended to change the course of the conversation. I wonder why you have not realized that.

Key word: in-depth

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branketra

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#85  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: You responded to a post that had nothing to do with "in-depth details about the U.S.' plans" by posting "[t]his is not really the place to discuss that sort of thing." You really need to do a better job of making your points clear and responding to the points and questions of others with responses that relate to what that person said.

I have said it numerous times. What I said is related. Have a nice day.

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branketra

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#87 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: Yes you have said it a number of times. However, what you said has nothing to do with the comment to which you were responding.

Stop trolling me.

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branketra

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#89  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: Haha. I'm not trolling you. Please just try to keep up.

I am just focused on the matter at hand with questions that could have been asked in such a way as to keep close to that rather than being the one who is asking why giving too much information about special operation is not good for security--Whether that information be given on the internet by the users in this thread (I doubt anyone here has that), the president himself, or anyone else. Instead of asking something like that, you did that very thing which led to you asking me the right thing the wrong way. If you need me to articulate my comments more, I would be more than happy to, but when saying that I should "keep up," remember you were the one who asked me and still do have not acknowledged this basic piece of information.

What does it matter if everyone is reading it?

At this point, it really feels like you are attempting to troll me or simply do not understand my reasoning at which is okay. The latter of which is okay. No harm done.

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branketra

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#91 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: No one has asked why "giving too much information about special operation is not good for security."

What I asked you is why you think "[t]his is not really the place to discuss" the fact that the President can not guarantee that US warfighters will not be drawn into combat.

That is the same question asked differently. If I am wrong, I welcome the constructive criticism that comes with being so.

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branketra

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#93 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@thegerg said:

@BranKetra: No. One is a question about operations. The other is a question about the President making a statement that he can't guarantee. They are different.

You are arguing semantics. Will you not be satisfied until I describe every step which results in them being related to one another?

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ReadingRainbow4

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#95 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

Iraq's military police force is a fucking mess, rabid drug use and sex among soldiers while guarding posts. There's zero discipline.

I doubt it'll change anytime soon, they have a long way to go unfortunately for us before they can be called autonomous.

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branketra

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#96  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts