Anti-gun policy hitting a new low?

You could, and I could bring a gun anyway and you could take it up with my department. Bad example.

So then wouldn't what the college is doing essentially be saying we kick you off campus if you carry around a gun? How is it different?

Yes they are. By telling someone they can't legally bring a concealed firearm they are most certainly limiting their right to bear arms.

@airshocker: Unless that college has metal detectors (not something specified in the article) one must pass through on a daily basis its not a rule they can actively enforce. You're a smart guy ignoring this logic out of convenience. You're also smart enough to know that the dude's bale price makes it highly unlikely he will make bail.

This is a 20 year old girl worried about nothing who would like to be a little bit special. My guess is she already signed a document saying that she would side by campus rules, and currently the campus officials have currently no logical reason to say she can carry a weapon.

Yes, you can do anything--I don't have a force field that blocks your from coming onto my property. But in that case you would be the person in the wrong. It's the same reason why businesses are allowed to ban guns on their premises

And of course I'm speaking of individual private citizens, not police officers carrying out their duties

It's my understating that the college has the law on their side on this

The right to bear arms is not unlimited

I want stun guns though

But that's not what they're doing. They're giving her no other recourse but to break their rules if she wants to protect herself.

@airshocker: that's the same thing but in different words

Bro, I've seen a $100k bail lowered to $1k before. I've seen bail completely thrown out. I have no faith in the bail system.

This is a 20 year old girl who is scared for her life for very good reason. You making it out to be like she has nothing to fear is completely wrong.

I don't want the law to be on the girls side despite my wanting the girl to be safe

Woman

That's my take

Guns, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems

I'd take greater issue in the fact that it's still legal for the stalker to buy a weapon, that the law around stalking is awful and a complete nightmare for the victims to ever get anything done, that the sentences are often well too light and that you can't trust the legal system not to release a dangerous individual. But of course none of that is going to be the main focus of the story.

@airshocker:

Dude you're wrong. None of your Constitutional Rights are absolute as they are always relative to other rights. You can't own a slave on your private property because the proposed slave's right to freedom trumps what rights you have to use either your real property (land) or your possessions, etc.

At the other end, private entities don't have to let visible minorities, women, or men, or gun totes, or people without shirts or shoes on their premises or into their clubs because their rights supercede yours. The reason their rights rule is because you do not have to be on their property; unless you are an agent of the State completing your normal duties, in which case you can shit all over their property because the State trumps private rights.

Look at it this way: you may have the right to bear arms on your property and (most) public property, but other people have the right to be free from your arms on their property.

Well that depends on the private entitiy

@airshocker: okay even if I am wrong about bail, what about all my other points? The dude is currently in jail, she has a way to check on this daily (I don't think she should have to do this but still), the fact that she can technically carry a concealed weapon if she has the sense to not tell people?

Also why are you so quick to defend her rights but not the campus's rights? Any way you look at this her life is not currently in danger. If the campus was to make an exception for possible future dangers why not just let any student carry a gun?

True enough, but I already tried to limit my post length

A gun on a college campus is a stupid idea. Period.

@SUD123456: agreed, kinda my house my rules argument.

The university is a private institution, so if they say she can't carry a fire arm on campus, well tough cookies, you can always change schools. She can still buy mace or carry a knife if she chooses, and the campus will have security which she can inform about her situation. Maybe my opinion is invalid because I'm Canadian (where seeing someone carry a gun anywhere in public, let alone a university campus, would blow my mind) but I don't really see how a gun is reasonable in this situation. Campus security is usually quite extensive and there a literally thousands of students around at all times. Leave the gunning down of criminals to the professionals, not scared 20 year old girls.

So a private institution does not have the right to eject someone from their property for violating their policies?

Big thumbs up from me for firearms as protection. In a society with 30+ minute police response times, we can't rely on them for being the only ones to protect others. And really, in a state where the police/government controls all the weapons is just asking to become a dictatorship.

And there is possible legislation going through in Canada soon to remove the whole "restricted" firearm* bullshit that has been plaguing legitimate gun owners for years.

I think gun laws are absolutely USELESS for keeping weapons out of criminals hands. Those that want to buy a gun will, no matter what, and those who can buy one legally for the purpose of committing a crime, will be able to get one without being detected by the testing process. In Canada, we have firearm training courses, and I think those should be available to anyone who wants to take it (but not mandatory).

--

*Note: A restricted firearm in Canada is defined as a gun with a barrel length shorter than 470mm (so anything that isn't a long gun) which includes any and all handguns. There is one step further (prohibited) which disallows anyone from owning them legally (when not grandfathered) and applies to a massive arbitrary list of weapons ranging from long guns to conceal carry pistols (i.e. the AR-15 is illegal, while the Tavor TAR-21 is not).

I ask how far favor for someone in a situation such as that woman is in would go. To extrapolate, a mentally ill individual could also be stalked just as she is, but I doubt there would be much support for a person like that to be allowed a firearm for defensive purposes.

Where in the constitution is breaking and entering covered? No where did I say that someone shouldn't be removed from anyone's property for committing a crime. Merely that you would have no cause to remove me from your property if I was armed and the state/county allowed me to be.

What about when he gets out of jail? What if he gets out early for some reason? No, she can't legally carry a concealed weapon on campus. Where are you getting that from?

Why not let any student carry a gun? Legal gun owners aren't the problem in this country. Criminals are. As the study in that Fox News article has pointed out, there haven't been any issues on the campuses of nine states that allowed students with the proper permits to carry concealed.

You beat me to it airshocker. What thegerg surprisingly doesn't realize is that he would be removed from your property because of the crime of B&E. For a guy who is so particular and pedantic about other people's obvious details in their writing, he just made an shockingly egregious error.

You severely overestimate the quality of average people. There are so many things that can happen that would preclude anybody coming to help this girl. The fact of the matter is that if you rely on anybody else except yourself for your own safety, you will eventually come into a situation where you WISH you were allowed to carry something that would end hostility almost instantly.

I am a professional and I tell everyone I meet that they need to have a plan to protect themselves at ALL times.

Where did I say I could own a slave on my private property? In fact, I stated that you can't.

Are we talking about as a private citizen? Because yes he would have cause, it's his property. He can have you removed.

Things get a bit odd around businesses open to the public, but the law seems to be that even they can ban guns on their property

With the school shootings that made the news such as VT and Sandy Hook I can see where the school is coming from. If I was her I would consider just moving off campus and leaving the pistol in her car while in class. I don't know if her school makes it mandatory to stay in the dorms but even if they do I don't see why they won't give her an exception to policy since it is probably less of a hassle for the college than allowing her to have her gun.

This isn't the first time I've heard about a college going nuts on safety rules. I remember reading on a forum about a guy who was in either the National Guard or reserves that was told by his college he can't keep his military gear in his dorm room because they considered it dangerous. I think the main issue they had was with the knife he kept on his vest but it was kind of overkill if he was telling the truth.

most schools wouldn't let her park on campus with a gun in the car

The owners of the school are not limiting her right to carry a gun, they're kicking her off campus because of it. That's the difference.

she should get pepper spray... no need to involve guns or make exceptions to rules that are in place to protect everyone else.

what happened to good ol pepper sprays which western womens used on creeps ? LOL

The guy who was stalking her is going to prison for four years, so it's not like she has a current and extenuating circumstances that should call for it.

He could be released early. It's not unheard of.

No guns on college could end up with a shooting spree becoming easier. It's the same reason Guns are banned on military bases.

Not true.

You can't get a stun gun so you get a firearm? Seems legit...Sometimes I really cannot comprehend your laws...Also, mace spray going bad quickly...buy a new one regularly...expiration dates are not an excuse to having a bloody gun!

Sometimes I can't either. Mace can go bad without you realizing it. I'm sorry I'm not for half-measures at protecting ones self. If someone means me or someone else harm I'm going to use the surest method to end that threat. I would never support anything that prevented someone from defending themselves.

@airshocker: Here we just let the police take care of things...I'm sorry you guys don't feel safe enough to allow for the same (not being sarcastic either...)

It's not about not feeling safe. I feel pretty safe where I live. It's about not trusting others to protect the things I care about unless they have a vested interest. There's a reason I would trust my Mom & Dad to take care of my family over somebody who isn't family. Now while a cop that knows me might drive just a little bit faster, a bit more recklessly, if they knew me or my family were in trouble(like I would do for them and theirs) why would a cop who doesn't know me from Adam do that? They wouldn't.

I say this all of the time, Police can't be EVERYWHERE at once. If you aren't willing to do things to protect yourself and those you love...well I sincerely hope nothing bad ever happens to you or them.

@airshocker: I think those feelings are quite sad...I never once felt the need to act against anyone on my own...I've had stalkers, my wife still has them every now and then...yes, it's stressful and sometimes they were quite deranged but we never felt we needed to defend ourselves, that's what the police is for...and true enough, they've always solved it without us getting involved. And even if, for some reason, I felt the need to defend myself I would never (and I don't know anyone who would either) get a gun...there's plenty of ways to defend yourself without one (and since it's highly unlikely that the person we need to defend ourselves here has anything bigger than a pocket knife, there's no need for a gun.

@korvus: What do you mean by act against anyone on your own? I'm sorry you're so trusting of other people, but I'm not. I have no sympathy for people who would commit crimes against another person. There are other ways but I'm not going to take that chance. I have too much to live for to roll the dice like that. The safest way is to kill someone where they stand if they mean you or another harm.