Americans apparantly hate atheists

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#151 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@musicalmac said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@musicalmac said:

@MacaroniMoses said:

It's been my research into religions throughout history that has contributed to my being an atheist. There are things we as humans will probably never know and some of us find comfort in using god to explain what we don't know. Why are we here? God made us! What happens when we die? We go see god! Why does the universe exist? God made it! Who made god? Oh, he was always there...

If that was the conclusion of your research, I might declare it was shallow at best.

So basically, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you seem to be coming from the position that a person is always in error if their research into the bible persuaded them towards atheism.

I left the quote chain so that context could be fully understood.

We have another "Can you elaborate on that," vs a loaded question (though here in this instance it's more of a probing statement) on our hands here. The problem is you assume first and ask question later. You formulate an opinion based on shallow reasoning and then choose to perpetuate that opinion in the most personally harmful way possible. You are indeed the malicious liberal stereotype.

My comment is accurate and infers nothing about the "correct" conclusion. What it does do is call into question the simple-minded conclusion of a wholly unexplained "research" project, an answer too "easy" for such a complex issue. It also serves as a challenge to that individual to further explain him or herself so that we can all better understand his or her point of view. That's why my rhetoric isn't definitive in nature.

Which all could easily be accomplished by asking the simple question, "can you elaborate on that"? Instead you made baseless assumptions.

You're being profoundly dishonest to the point where it becomes impossible to engage you in rational discourse. You have no problem throwing out what you would describe as probing statements and loaded questions but the moment that someone addresses the actual implication of these statements you reply with a rather hilarious passive aggressive rant and cry plausible deniability.

Not a surprise really. Religion is a mega-belief, one ingrained into the believer's very personality. It's a belief made up of smaller pillars holding it all up. When one pillar is questioned, they are taken as near personal insults. None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion. Only when a sufficient number of these emotional pillars fall can actual logical reasoning enter the playground easier.

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#152 Edited by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@BSC14: Yeah it is... Because if you are truly acceptingm, then it shouldn't matter to you...

That's just not true.

If it's important to me that my family continues to follow Christ, that has nothing to do with you personally. It's more about my family keeping to our beliefs...not that they would not accept you as a person or that you would be considered less of a person of course.

So why would it be ok for me? For me it doesn't matter what my daughter/son would marry... As long as they are happy

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#153 Posted by Lach0121 (10516 posts) -

I was born, and raised in the US. Right in the middle of the "Bible belt" to be exact. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't have faith, as I don't think its all that good of a thing to "purposefully suspend critical thinking." However, I reserve a bank of reason. Basically if anyone happens to actually prove that God exists I will accept it, but so far that has yet to happen. I am no Dem though, and sure as hell no Rep. My significant other feels similar.

That being said I know the US hates Atheists. Especially the South!

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#154 Edited by musicalmac (24704 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Which all could easily be accomplished by asking the simple question, "can you elaborate on that"? Instead you made baseless assumptions.

You're being profoundly dishonest to the point where it becomes impossible to engage you in rational discourse. You have no problem throwing out what you would describe as probing statements and loaded questions but the moment that someone addresses the actual implication of these statements you reply with a rather hilarious passive aggressive rant and cry plausible deniability.

It's only profoundly dishonest if I don't own my actions, which I have no problem doing. You're right that the better question would have been, "Can you elaborate on that," and I should have said that instead of my toothy statement. In my defense, I didn't engineer a new conclusion as you did, but called into question the validity of the prior research. So the reality is that these two situations aren't quite as comparable as you would hope.

Your presumptions have failed you again. This pattern will continue.

Full disclosure -- My reply was born of my disrespect for seemingly apathetic conclusions. If I had a pet peeve, it would be apathetic analysis and stereotypical, presumptuous, malicious liberal rhetoric. It's very much a defensive, fixed mindset that stunts discourse more than it encourages it. It's very much the opposite of progressive. We're all in this together, but insecurity often creates divides.

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#155 Edited by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@BSC14 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@BSC14: Yeah it is... Because if you are truly acceptingm, then it shouldn't matter to you...

That's just not true.

If it's important to me that my family continues to follow Christ, that has nothing to do with you personally. It's more about my family keeping to our beliefs...not that they would not accept you as a person or that you would be considered less of a person of course.

So why would it be ok for me? For me it doesn't matter what my daughter/son would marry... As long as they are happy

A lot of it comes down to the belief itself. If I'm concerned for my child's afterlife as well as my future grandkids afterlife...well that's reason for it to matter.

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#156 Posted by musicalmac (24704 posts) -

@MacaroniMoses said:

@musicalmac:

I don't even get what you're trying to say. My looking into various religions which has lead me to my personal conclusions about religion are wrong? I'm glad you know me well enough to doubt the extent of my 30+ years of religious examination. My statements are about what I believe and why without writing an essay about it. On another note, If my daughter came home with a religious guy, I probably wouldn't care.

Are you a scholar of world religions?

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#157 Posted by musicalmac (24704 posts) -

@wis3boi said:

Not a surprise really. Religion is a mega-belief, one ingrained into the believer's very personality. It's a belief made up of smaller pillars holding it all up. When one pillar is questioned, they are taken as near personal insults. None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion. Only when a sufficient number of these emotional pillars fall can actual logical reasoning enter the playground easier.

Any individual in any religion that discourages questioning any of the pillars of that particular faith is destructive to his or her own cause. People should be encouraged to question everything about their beliefs or about things those around them believe.

There's something to be said for doing the work yourself.

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#158 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@BSC14: Jesus... Seriously? You're going to be that ignorant and bigoted? God forbid your child is gay...

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#159 Posted by playmynutz (7251 posts) -

I am declaring myself a gay atheist see how life turns out now

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#160 Edited by BSC14 (4187 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@BSC14: Jesus... Seriously? You're going to be that ignorant and bigoted? God forbid your child is gay...

You're saying being a Christian makes you a bigot. So yes in your eyes I am and I feel no shame for it.

It's not for me to say "if you don't follow Christ you're going to hell". Or that if you believe something other than the Bible you will go to hell...obviously it's not my place to make such statements. However, Christian families feel that it's the right way and want their families to continue what they think is the truth.

If you believe what's in the Bible you would prefer your family to follow it and not be influenced in another direction.

If my child were gay I would love him just the same.

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#161 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Which all could easily be accomplished by asking the simple question, "can you elaborate on that"? Instead you made baseless assumptions.

You're being profoundly dishonest to the point where it becomes impossible to engage you in rational discourse. You have no problem throwing out what you would describe as probing statements and loaded questions but the moment that someone addresses the actual implication of these statements you reply with a rather hilarious passive aggressive rant and cry plausible deniability.

It's only profoundly dishonest if I don't own my actions, which I have no problem doing. You're right that the better question would have been, "Can you elaborate on that," and I should have said that instead of my toothy statement. In my defense, I didn't engineer a new conclusion as you did, but called into question the validity of the prior research. So the reality is that these two situations aren't quite as comparable as you would hope.

Your presumptions have failed you again. This pattern will continue.

Full disclosure -- My reply was born of my disrespect for seemingly apathetic conclusions. If I had a pet peeve, it would be apathetic analysis and stereotypical, presumptuous, malicious liberal rhetoric. It's very much a defensive, fixed mindset that stunts discourse more than it encourages it. It's very much the opposite of progressive. We're all in this together, but insecurity often creates divides.

Sounds to me like you're projecting. Projection is indeed a common defense mechanism used to defend the ego from undesirable characteristics.

There is nothing "seemingly apathetic" about saying "I've done a lot of research into the bible and religion and that research has contributed to my atheism." It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made. It would've been much more productive if you had addressed the actual point of contention and explained why you disagreed with it instead of resorting to petty discrediting tactics.

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#162 Posted by musicalmac (24704 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Sounds to me like you're projecting. Projection is indeed a common defense mechanism used to defend the ego from undesirable characteristics.

There is nothing "seemingly apathetic" about saying "I've done a lot of research into the bible and religion and that research has contributed to my atheism." It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made. It would've been much more productive if you had addressed the actual point of contention and explained why you disagreed with it instead of resorting to petty discrediting tactics.

Heh, it's hard to peg me like this when I'm open and honest about my mistakes. Why don't you acknowledge that instead of trying to discredit me?

I didn't call into question his statement alone, I called into question his statement upon reading the conclusion. Context is so important, and it's easy to contort things when you remove it from the conversation. Very much so stereotypical, once again. I won't be so easily fooled by your pseudo-intellectualism, heh.

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#163 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Sounds to me like you're projecting. Projection is indeed a common defense mechanism used to defend the ego from undesirable characteristics.

There is nothing "seemingly apathetic" about saying "I've done a lot of research into the bible and religion and that research has contributed to my atheism." It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made. It would've been much more productive if you had addressed the actual point of contention and explained why you disagreed with it instead of resorting to petty discrediting tactics.

Heh, it's hard to peg me like this when I'm open and honest about my mistakes. Why don't you acknowledge that instead of trying to discredit me?

I didn't call into question his statement alone, I called into question his statement upon reading the conclusion. Context is so important, and it's easy to contort things when you remove it from the conversation. Very much so stereotypical, once again. I won't be so easily fooled by your pseudo-intellectualism, heh.

"I called into question his statement upon reading the conclusion."

I agree, which is why I said "It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made." This is also why I made my initial comment, the same comment that triggered your passive aggressive rant, about you seemingly coming from the position that a person is in error a priori if their research into the bible/religion has contributed to their atheism.

Again, it'd be much more constructive if you explained why you disagreed rather than reflexively responding with accusations of being "lazy", "shallow" and "apathetic"

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#164 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@BSC14 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@BSC14: Jesus... Seriously? You're going to be that ignorant and bigoted? God forbid your child is gay...

You're saying being a Christian makes you a bigot. So yes in your eyes I am and I feel no shame for it.

It's not for me to say "if you don't follow Christ you're going to hell". Or that if you believe something other than the Bible you will go to hell...obviously it's not my place to make such statements. However, Christian families feel that it's the right way and want their families to continue what they think is the truth.

If you believe what's in the Bible you would prefer your family to follow it and not be influenced in another direction.

If my child were gay I would love him just the same.

Even if things that are written in the bible are refuted by science?

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#165 Posted by Master_Live (18476 posts) -

Why can't we stop the fighting OT?

Loading Video...

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#166 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

Why can't we stop the fighting OT?

Loading Video...

"And no religion too"

I'm trying John, I'm trying.

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#167 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@Master_Live: Because some people are ignorant and arrogant aswell. Why do you think people kill each other over imiginary people they worship? Most of the wars are based on religion and money

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#168 Posted by jasean79 (2593 posts) -

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

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#169 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

Faith is not fact nor is it science. It has done nothing but held us back

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#170 Edited by jasean79 (2593 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

Faith is not fact nor is it science. It has done nothing but held us back

"us"? Speak for yourself, buddy.

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#171 Posted by thehig1 (5504 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

whats the difference between emotion assumption assertion and Faith ?

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#172 Posted by Makhaidos (2162 posts) -

I for one eagerly look forward to the day we can clone homosexual babies just so we can abort them and experiment with their stem cells to make better drugs and condoms.

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#173 Edited by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

@playmynutz said:

Athiest seem to be on par with homosexuals.

The real losers in America are the druggies

YEAH hey wait what'd you just say to me?

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#174 Posted by IMAHAPYHIPPO (3001 posts) -

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

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#175 Posted by jasean79 (2593 posts) -

@thehig1 said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

whats the difference between emotion assumption assertion and Faith ?

Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us.

An assumption is a guess.

Emotion is an affective state of consciousness.

Assertion is a positive statement, often without support or reason.

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#176 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

So...gonna flesh that out with a specific example?

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#177 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

Faith is not fact nor is it science. It has done nothing but held us back

"us"? Speak for yourself, buddy.

So the church hasn't killed non-believers for centuries? Christians have not tried holding technology back? Sure mate... Whatever helps you sleep :)

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#178 Posted by IMAHAPYHIPPO (3001 posts) -
@THE_DRUGGIE said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

So...gonna flesh that out with a specific example?

Nah. Because it's not relevant. And mostly because -- like I stated in all caps -- I can't be ignorant enough to believe that every atheist is a shithead. I'm sure many of them are quite lovely people. That said, I'm sure I've met atheists and not realized it. It seems the ones who speak the loudest about the fact that they're atheist are the biggest cocktards.

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#179 Posted by thehig1 (5504 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@thehig1 said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

whats the difference between emotion assumption assertion and Faith ?

Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us.

An assumption is a guess.

Emotion is an affective state of consciousness.

Assertion is a positive statement, often without support or reason.

Assumption

Emotion

Assertion

Faith

For a better definition of Faith "Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof:

I don't see a big difference

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#180 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:
@THE_DRUGGIE said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

So...gonna flesh that out with a specific example?

Nah. Because it's not relevant. And mostly because -- like I stated in all caps -- I can't be ignorant enough to believe that every atheist is a shithead. I'm sure many of them are quite lovely people. That said, I'm sure I've met atheists and not realized it. It seems the ones who speak the loudest about the fact that they're atheist are the biggest cocktards.

I dunno, seems pretty relevant since there might've been something else causing them to be a jerk.

Also, I see people say what you said and they all clam up when I ask for a specific example; it's kinda weird. So just for the sake of knowing what a jerk atheist would be like, a specific example would be coolio.

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#181 Edited by jasean79 (2593 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

Faith is not fact nor is it science. It has done nothing but held us back

"us"? Speak for yourself, buddy.

So the church hasn't killed non-believers for centuries? Christians have not tried holding technology back? Sure mate... Whatever helps you sleep :)

Oh, so that's your approach now? Going back quite a few centuries are we?

While you're on the subject of kilings, let's not forget Muslims. They're responsible for more deaths to non-believers of Islam (Christians, particularly and even to this day Christians are persecuted because of their belief). But, I get it...Christians are the bad guys. Right.

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#182 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@wis3boi: None of the pillars are based on reason and logic, they are based on emotion and assumption and assertion...

No, it's based on faith, something which you know nothing about, apparently.

Faith is not fact nor is it science. It has done nothing but held us back

"us"? Speak for yourself, buddy.

So the church hasn't killed non-believers for centuries? Christians have not tried holding technology back? Sure mate... Whatever helps you sleep :)

Oh, so that's your approach now? Going back quite a few centuries are we?

While you're on the subject of kilings, let's not forget Muslims. They're responsible for more deaths to non-believers of Islam (Christians, particularly and even to this day Christians are persecuted because of their belief). But, I get it...Christians are the bad guys. Right.

Sure, Islam have killed people aswell, but Christians have never been the good guy's through history

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#183 Posted by BranKetra (51726 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

Unless each and every person you have met has informed you of their beliefs, you must mean the ones who actually did.

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#184 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

At the same time, I think atheists -- at least the ones I've come across -- give themselves a bad rap because they live like there's no consequences for any of their actions, justifying any of their wrongdoings by turning it into a religious debate everytime you tell them they're doing something wrong, when really it's just being demanded upon them that they behave like decent human beings.

**I DO NOT BELIEVE ALL ATHEISTS ARE LIKE THIS, JUST THE ONES I'VE ENCOUNTERED.**

So basicly you're telling them they're sinning and they get angry? I would too...

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#185 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (8810 posts) -

Well this is a lovely thread. I guess critical thinking and doubting questionable traditional practices and beliefs is a negative for most people.

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#186 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan: Well it's been that way for quite a while

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#187 Posted by musicalmac (24704 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

"I called into question his statement upon reading the conclusion."

I agree, which is why I said "It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made." This is also why I made my initial comment, the same comment that triggered your passive aggressive rant, about you seemingly coming from the position that a person is in error a priori if their research into the bible/religion has contributed to their atheism.

Again, it'd be much more constructive if you explained why you disagreed rather than reflexively responding with accusations of being "lazy", "shallow" and "apathetic"

I did explain it, I cited that it seemed too simple an answer for such a complex issue. He then cited his 30+ years of research experience, but gave us nothing other than the passing of time. I'm not going to engineer an answer from his replies if these are the only pieces of information I have.

I would be curious to know why anyone who studies the Bible finds it more affirming of their atheist outlook. Are these individuals applying human definitions regarding how to interpret the passages in the book? Are they consciously attempting to remove predispositions from their mind before studying? How literally are you reading the stories in the book? How about other religious texts? His conclusions aren't those of what you'd expect from someone with 30+ scholarly years of religious research. They're very much simple, face-value conclusions. There's no meat on the bones of those conclusions. Unless I'm a fool and he has surpassed my own research and experience in ways I cannot understand.

If you're discouraging people from asking "Why," when presented with an opinion, you're as bad as the religious extremists who discourage their peers from asking why. This is especially dangerous when you're doing it passively when your surroundings match your own beliefs. Try to be a little more counter culture.

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#188 Posted by tocool340 (20916 posts) -

I certainly don't care if they hate me as long as they aren't forming angry mobs and thinking of lynching. Most people don't even know I'm Atheist as I keep to myself when it comes to religious discussion (unless people really push the issue, trying to justify their prejudice and hatred through their religious text. Then I might just involve myself in those discussions)....

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#189 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (985 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us.

lol nice little dressing you put on there.

There is no virtue involved in simply believing in authority, and god hasn't said or revealed anything. If he did, it wouldn't be called 'faith' since we would have evidence to go on.

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#190 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

@vl4d_l3nin said:

@jasean79 said:

Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us.

lol nice little dressing you put on there.

There is no virtue involved in simply believing in authority, and god hasn't said or revealed anything. If he did, it wouldn't be called 'faith' since we would have evidence to go on.

Faith: "The excuse people give for when they have no good reason"

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#191 Edited by iwilson1296 (2251 posts) -

Foreigners (OT) really have a huge fetish for americans, damn

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#192 Posted by MacaroniMoses (678 posts) -

@musicalmac: By all means, tell me the valid reason one would come to accept athesim? I really have no need to justify why I came to my beliefs to you, my opinions are my own, you have your own. I assure you, I'm far from simple minded. It's kind of weird my lack of religion offends you. Apparently America does hate atheists.

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#193 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

You know what, I got a priest buddy and we almost never talk about religion stuff. We do like to talk about Deadpool and how to harmonize our singing by using 500 Miles by The Proclaimers.

The answer to harmony between atheists and priests lies in Deadpool and/or The Proclaimers.

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#194 Posted by byof_america (1782 posts) -
@iwilson1296 said:

Foreigners (OT) really have a huge fetish for americans, damn

Probably cause we're awesome and they want to bring are awesome levels down a peg.

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#195 Edited by verbtex (8920 posts) -

Hmm. Interesting. It seems to be the opposite where I am from. "What, you're marrying a religious ______?" was the response my cousin got from almost all of her coworkers and family.

Edit: removed religion to avoid controversy.

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#196 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (18733 posts) -

Whenever someone tells me they're atheist, I really think nothing of it. I look at people as people, that includes the good and the bad, your religious outlook unless it revolves around sacrificing babies won't deter me from befriending you.

The ones that are annoying to no end however are those that wear it as a badge of honor, take pride in it. You believe in nothing, good for you.

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#197 Posted by verbtex (8920 posts) -

@vfibsux: Both have their fair share of less than tolerable people.

I think you may see people who are arguing for your religion as more of "outspoken heros" than "dicks" from the opposing side. Just like the saying goes, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

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#198 Edited by br0kenrabbit (14591 posts) -

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

Whenever someone tells me they're atheist, I really think nothing of it. The ones that are annoying to no end however are those that wear it as a badge of honor, take pride in it. You believe in nothing, good for you.

The religious seem pretty damn proud of their chosen beliefs. Proud enough even to keep knocking on my door uninvited.

But see the thing is, just like in these threads, I know more about their religion than 99% of them. I've even had people cry (no joke) and tell me to stop because I'm 'messing up their beliefs', when they're the ones who came to my damn door.

If they don't have the motivation to dig deep into their religion to truly understand it (and no, the translated versions of the Bible just aren't going to cut it) then I really have no respect for them. They're proselytizing out of pride and a misinformed sense of moral superiority, not because they 'care'. They're not spreading salvation, they're recruiting.

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#199 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -
@musicalmac said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

"I called into question his statement upon reading the conclusion."

I agree, which is why I said "It's really quite obvious that the problem you have with that statement is that you disagree with the conclusion that was made." This is also why I made my initial comment, the same comment that triggered your passive aggressive rant, about you seemingly coming from the position that a person is in error a priori if their research into the bible/religion has contributed to their atheism.

Again, it'd be much more constructive if you explained why you disagreed rather than reflexively responding with accusations of being "lazy", "shallow" and "apathetic"

I did explain it, I cited that it seemed too simple an answer for such a complex issue. He then cited his 30+ years of research experience, but gave us nothing other than the passing of time. I'm not going to engineer an answer from his replies if these are the only pieces of information I have.

I would be curious to know why anyone who studies the Bible finds it more affirming of their atheist outlook. Are these individuals applying human definitions regarding how to interpret the passages in the book? Are they consciously attempting to remove predispositions from their mind before studying? How literally are you reading the stories in the book? How about other religious texts? His conclusions aren't those of what you'd expect from someone with 30+ scholarly years of religious research. They're very much simple, face-value conclusions. There's no meat on the bones of those conclusions. Unless I'm a fool and he has surpassed my own research and experience in ways I cannot understand.

If you're discouraging people from asking "Why," when presented with an opinion, you're as bad as the religious extremists who discourage their peers from asking why. This is especially dangerous when you're doing it passively when your surroundings match your own beliefs. Try to be a little more counter culture.

This is precisely what I am not doing. I don't need to be lectured in the importance of asking "why", and I wish more people would do so in every aspect of their life. As for my surroundings matching my beliefs, I'm contrarian by nature. I get really uncomfortable when I find myself in situations where my surroundings match my beliefs. Contrast makes the world beautiful, even when I'm in conversation with someone and we agree 99% somehow, someway I'll make sure we're exclusively talking about that 1% that we don't agree on. Hell even when I'm in virtual 100% agreement with someone I'll still criticize what they're saying, and it doesn't really matter what we're talking about either. I do it almost subconsciously. It probably has something to do with my Jewish upbringing - as the saying goes, for every two Jews there are three opinions.

And I can't help but laugh at your suggestion that I should try to be a little more counter culture. I'd love to be able to elaborate but this site prohibits the discussion of illegal activities.

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#200 Edited by PopeAnonymousXV (168 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@foxhound_fox said:

Of course they do, because (apparently) America was founded on "Christian values".

In God we Trust.

E pluribus unum.