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#51 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

GazaAli

Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

If you really believe that U.S governments and its various institutions (CIA, State department, U.S Army, Consulates...etc) act with a poor understanding of the region then you are seriously deranged. You may not like their policies if you have the assumption that the average American citizen and they want the same thing which is largely incorrect.

The first thing that has to be explained to someone like you is that the US government is not the omniscent and omnipotent entity that you think it is. It is full of stupid people--just look at Congress. The second thing a conspiracy prone arab such as yourself should get over is the fact that 9/11 wasn't some false flag attack by the government to rally the population to war in the middle east.

The fact is that the US government is made up of regular people. And regular people don't know everything and they occasionaly do stupid things. If they didn't, then we still wouldn't be dicking around in that incurable sh!thole called afghanistan.

#52 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"But how they don't have control over it when they put them there?

The same reason voters aren't accountable for the crimes of such people.

#53 Posted by GazaAli (23286 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"] Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

If you really believe that U.S governments and its various institutions (CIA, State department, U.S Army, Consulates...etc) act with a poor understanding of the region then you are seriously deranged. You may not like their policies if you have the assumption that the average American citizen and they want the same thing which is largely incorrect.

The first thing that has to be explained to someone like you is that the US government is not the omniscent and omnipotent entity that you think it is. It is full of stupid people--just look at Congress. The second thing a conspiracy prone arab such as yourself should get over is the fact that 9/11 wasn't some false flag attack by the government to rally the population to war in the middle east.

The fact is that the US government is made up of regular people. And regular people don't know everything and they occasionaly do stupid things. If they didn't, then we still wouldn't be dicking around in that incurable sh!thole called afghanistan.

Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.
#54 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"But how they don't have control over it when they put them there?airshocker

The same reason voters aren't accountable for the crimes of such people.

the crime of politicians? Voters don't put people on office knowing they will commit crimes (some might, but thats another story). But voters can and do put people in office knowing what foreign policy they will undertake
#55 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"] Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

PWSteal_Ldpinch

If you really believe that U.S governments and its various institutions (CIA, State department, U.S Army, Consulates...etc) act with a poor understanding of the region then you are seriously deranged. You may not like their policies if you have the assumption that the average American citizen and they want the same thing which is largely incorrect.

The first thing that has to be explained to someone like you is that the US government is not the omniscent and omnipotent entity that you think it is. It is full of stupid people--just look at Congress. The second thing a conspiracy prone arab such as yourself should get over is the fact that 9/11 wasn't some false flag attack by the government to rally the population to war in the middle east.

The fact is that the US government is made up of regular people. And regular people don't know everything and they occasionaly do stupid things. If they didn't, then we still wouldn't be dicking around in that incurable sh!thole called afghanistan.

when did gaza say 9/11 was in inside job?

#56 Posted by DanteSuikoden (3418 posts) -

The same reason voters aren't accountable for the crimes of such people.

airshocker

Is a boss not responsible for a big mistake of an employee that they hired?:|

#57 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.GazaAli
You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

#58 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.PWSteal_Ldpinch

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

You cant seriously think CIA strategists are "regular people."
#59 Posted by GazaAli (23286 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.PWSteal_Ldpinch

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

Believe me you are no master race.
#60 Posted by GazaAli (23286 posts) -
[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.BossPerson

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

You cant seriously think CIA strategists are "regular people."

Better yet "stupid, regular people"
#61 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.BossPerson

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

You cant seriously think CIA strategists are "regular people."

I have a few questions for you. Who are these CIA strategists? Are they Jews by any chance? Did they decide to invade Iraq and Afghanistan or was that Bush? Was 9/11 part of their master plan?

#62 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

the crime of politicians? Voters don't put people on office knowing they will commit crimes (some might, but thats another story). But voters can and do put people in office knowing what foreign policy they will undertake BossPerson

As I told GazaAli, there's no grey area. It's one in the same. If voters can't be held accountable for the crimes of politicians, how can they be held accountable for their reproachable actions? I didn't vote for anybody to give weapons to Egypt. I doubt the majority of this country did the same.

#63 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.GazaAli

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

Believe me you are no master race.

Well we didn't become a superpower by accident :lol:

#64 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

Is a boss not responsible for a big mistake of an employee that they hired?:|

DanteSuikoden

It depends. Give me an instance.

#65 Posted by Aljosa23 (25513 posts) -

[QUOTE="DanteSuikoden"]

Is a boss not responsible for a big mistake of an employee that they hired?:|

airshocker

It depends. Give me an instance.

Hiring an illegal immigrant, perhaps?

#66 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

PWSteal_Ldpinch

You cant seriously think CIA strategists are "regular people."

I have a few questions for you. Who are these CIA strategists? Are they Jews by any chance? Did they decide to invade Iraq and Afghanistan or was that Bush? Was 9/11 part of their master plan?

lol, you automatically think Im racist because Im arab, thats racist. Who are these cia strategists? people educated in international relations, foreign affairs, military strategy, etc Are they Jews? Do I give even half a sh*t if they are? Who decided to invade Iraq? Idk, but what what is obvious is that it was discussed quite a bit my many people. It couldnt have been one group or one person.
#67 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

Hiring an illegal immigrant, perhaps?

Aljosa23

That's a crime, so yes the employer is at fault.

But only if he knowingly hired an illegal immigrant. If he made every reasonable attempt to discern the persons legality and was deceived, he can't be held responsible.

#68 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]the crime of politicians? Voters don't put people on office knowing they will commit crimes (some might, but thats another story). But voters can and do put people in office knowing what foreign policy they will undertake airshocker

As I told GazaAli, there's no grey area. It's one in the same. If voters can't be held accountable for the crimes of politicians, how can they be held accountable for their reproachable actions? I didn't vote for anybody to give weapons to Egypt. I doubt the majority of this country did the same.

What if a politicians foreign polocy is made front and center in a campaign, and his policies of cuddling with Saudi Arabia are made known the the public, and they still vote for him. Are they not responsible for his actions? Not in the slightest? I think the misunderstanding is that you view these actions as crimes or akin to crimes. Whether or not they are such is irrelevant. They are calculated actions that have been thought out.
#69 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

I lied pswdlidich (or w/e the fvck). Those people in government are all illuminati/reptilian/rothschild mossad agents.

#70 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

What if a politicians foreign polocy is made front and center in a campaign, and his policies of cuddling with Saudi Arabia are made known the the public, and they still vote for him. Are they not responsible for his actions? Not in the slightest? I think the misunderstanding is that you view these actions as crimes or akin to crimes. Whether or not they are such is irrelevant. They are calculated actions that have been thought out. BossPerson

The only way we'd truly be held responsible if it was a direct democracy and we voted to give weapons to Egypt. That isn't the case.

#71 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]What if a politicians foreign polocy is made front and center in a campaign, and his policies of cuddling with Saudi Arabia are made known the the public, and they still vote for him. Are they not responsible for his actions? Not in the slightest? I think the misunderstanding is that you view these actions as crimes or akin to crimes. Whether or not they are such is irrelevant. They are calculated actions that have been thought out. airshocker

The only way we'd truly be held responsible if it was a direct democracy and we voted to give weapons to Egypt. That isn't the case.

the truth is your right to an extent. but I disagree when you say theres no grey area, i think there is. In a democracy, people are more accountable for the actions of their leaders than in a dictatorship

#72 Posted by pie-junior (2866 posts) -
[QUOTE="PWSteal_Ldpinch"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Hold your horses lol The U.S is a superpower whether you say so or not. I'm sure it didn't get there by accident. That what differentiate 1st world countries and third world ones generally speaking. And do not put words into my mouth.BossPerson

You're right, silly me. I forgot we Americans are all super genius master race. If we're going to argue on these premises then I should just win the debate now :D

You cant seriously think CIA strategists are "regular people."

they are.
#74 Posted by airshocker (30387 posts) -

the truth is your right to an extent. but I disagree when you say theres no grey area, i think there is. In a democracy, people are more accountable for the actions of their leaders than in a dictatorship

BossPerson

I agree with that, but I simply don't agree that people vote politicians into office so that they can act in a reproachable fashion. Our congress has rules governing how they are supposed to act, after all.

If those politicians act a certain way, we are not responsible. We vote them in expecting them to follow the rules of Congress and the law.

#75 Posted by thebest31406 (3477 posts) -

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

Airshocker doesn't seem to know what a representaitve democracy entails.

When a country has been doing the same thing for decades, at least to a certain extent, the voters who put them in office and didn;t make it an issue are responsible (to some extent).

airshocker

I seem to know much more than any of you. I'm not trying to hold voters accountable for things they have no control over.

Accountability and responsibility are not one in the same.
#76 Posted by Aljosa23 (25513 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]What if a politicians foreign polocy is made front and center in a campaign, and his policies of cuddling with Saudi Arabia are made known the the public, and they still vote for him. Are they not responsible for his actions? Not in the slightest? I think the misunderstanding is that you view these actions as crimes or akin to crimes. Whether or not they are such is irrelevant. They are calculated actions that have been thought out. BossPerson

The only way we'd truly be held responsible if it was a direct democracy and we voted to give weapons to Egypt. That isn't the case.

the truth is your right to an extent. but I disagree when you say theres no grey area, i think there is. In a democracy, people are more accountable for the actions of their leaders than in a dictatorship

America isn't a true democracy, it's a constitutional republic.

#77 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

The only way we'd truly be held responsible if it was a direct democracy and we voted to give weapons to Egypt. That isn't the case.

Aljosa23

the truth is your right to an extent. but I disagree when you say theres no grey area, i think there is. In a democracy, people are more accountable for the actions of their leaders than in a dictatorship

America isn't a true democracy, it's a constitutional republic.

its not a direct democracy, but its a representative one.
#78 Posted by mingmao3046 (2495 posts) -
we really need to stop all foreign aid
#79 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151708 posts) -
I wish we'd stop all foreign aid. Period.
#80 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

I wish we'd stop all foreign aid. Period.LJS9502_basic
That sounds nice on the surface, but take Pakistan for example, we fund aid to them because the government is very unstable and would more then likely collapse without our support. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and they WILL fall into the wrong hands if the government were to fail. India is right next to Pakistan and don't think for a second that some crazy fundamentist would hesitate to try something there causing all out nuclear war.

#81 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] :lol: you elect them after all.sSubZerOo

So just because we elect them we are responsible for them? What happened to people being responsible for their own actions? We don't prosecute the voters when one of their representatives are indicted for a crime. How is this any different?

The difference is this.. This wasn't some random crime, this was typical US policy that really hasn't changed for 40 years.. Hell yes you can blame the voter for this because this has been going on for so long.. This isn't just some random event that took every one by surprise, this is long standing policy..

In those past forty years, all Americans, irrespective of party affiliation or voting tendencies, are perfectly attuned to the decision-making process in smoke-filled rooms behind closed doors pertaining to areas of the world which they will never see even once in their lives. Those plebeian bastards!

#82 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151708 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I wish we'd stop all foreign aid. Period.Yusuke420

That sounds nice on the surface, but take Pakistan for example, we fund aid to them because the government is very unstable and would more then likely collapse without our support. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and they WILL fall into the wrong hands if the government were to fail. India is right next to Pakistan and don't think for a second that some crazy fundamentist would hesitate to try something there causing all out nuclear war.

Who cares. That would be the problem of Pakistan. We shouldn't pay tax dollars to make life happy for other countries.
#83 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]the truth is your right to an extent. but I disagree when you say theres no grey area, i think there is. In a democracy, people are more accountable for the actions of their leaders than in a dictatorship

BossPerson

America isn't a true democracy, it's a constitutional republic.

its not a direct democracy, but its a representative one.

Even then, not perfectly. See: electoral college, congressional gerrymandering, and the senate by its very nature.

#84 Posted by Storm_Marine (11563 posts) -

Because they pay for them?

Wasdie

They "pay" for them with the 1.3 billion dollars you give them every year.

#85 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4728 posts) -

Don't ask me, I'm not involved in the government.

I move corn and hay for a living.

#86 Posted by Temesra (135 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

PWSteal_Ldpinch

Well in a representative democracy we are at least a little bit accountable for our government's actions. Anyway to answer TC it's because America's foreign policy in the middle east has always been built on a fundamental lack of understanding of the region. Among which is the misunderstanding that any of these countries will exist stably in the long run. What happened in Egypt is the same as what happened in Iran. Just two years before the Iranian Revolution president Carter gave material support to the Shah thinking that Iran was "an island of stability" in the middle east. Repeatedly, American foreign policy has failed to account for the extreme contempt of the US in the Middle East, and American leaders would not be arming these people if these sentiments had been known to them.

Many of the countries in the middle east have their own major problems for some reason and from what I understand the anti-US and anti- west is because of problems in their country. Both Turkey and Egypt where pro US and pro west to the Muslim brotherhood took hold that does NOT care about pace and trade but supporting Nationalism .
#87 Posted by thebest31406 (3477 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I wish we'd stop all foreign aid. Period.Yusuke420

That sounds nice on the surface, but take Pakistan for example, we fund aid to them because the government is very unstable and would more then likely collapse without our support. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and they WILL fall into the wrong hands if the government were to fail. India is right next to Pakistan and don't think for a second that some crazy fundamentist would hesitate to try something there causing all out nuclear war.

That's not why the US funds Pakistan but whatever.
#88 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I didn't know we as a country are held accountable for our government's actions.

Why don't you write a letter to congress and ask them yourself?

GazaAli

:lol: you elect them after all.

well 21% or 65 million people elected our current war puppet, though the 19% that voted mitt were just as dumb as the aforementioned party.

anyway gaza you should love this, the Egyptian people have not changed, they will attack Israel again some day, and with equal arms it wont be a repeat of the 7 days war.