A question to any guys in OT...

Both sound horrible sorry for being cynical

i'd rather have a threesome

i am happy with my left hand

This. What each lacks is what I require from a woman in a relationship, so I choose neither. Sorry.

There's a saying, "Show me the most beautiful woman in the world and I'll show you a man that's tired of having sex with her."

Beauty is fleeting, so you have to have something to fill the time between.

I'm glad I didn't have to choose between a gorgeous girl and a sweetheart, but if I had to, **** looks. I would have no problem dating an "ugly girl" (although I'd think they're never ugly if you're in love) but I would have no use for a super gorgeous babe that I wouldn't be able to stand the second she opened her mouth.

Also, why is the question for guys only?

Because guys make up 99% of this board? :D

Did you just say it's ok to discriminate against minorities? Good luck, you'll need it =P

@korvus Because there aren't any girls on the internet

@deeliman: Are you trying to piss off my wife? XD

Of course. Don't you know how bigoted and discriminatory I can be when it comes to this forum?

@jasean79: Ha. If I were to remember all the nasty things I've read in these forums and who wrote them I don't think I'd have the courage to click on threads anymore =P

We talking about casual sex or long term relationship? Because that makes a big difference.

That's what keeps me coming back! :D

@jasean79: You're an ass =D

This question is unfair because you know that there are pretty women who throw themselves at certain guys all the time just because those guys are very good-looking and rich and famous.

Guys who are ugly like me other the hand have to settle just because we're not good-looking, rich and famous.

So this question is unfair for ugly guys who do not have the looks, wealth and fame that many celebrities and rich athletes have.

You are taking this hypothetical question way too literally.

Ugly according to whose standards? Yours? Dude, we are our own worst critics. Remember, people don't see you as YOU see you. As I told you before in another thread, it's confidence that wins people over, not looks. Looks may attract someone, sure, but if there is no "substance", they won't stick around long.

It's very very obvious that we're not talking about casual sex we're talking about here.

I agree, we need clarification. Obviously the "sweetheart" for a relationship and the supermodel for just sex. Although I believe that sex with someone you truly are in love with can be more pleasurable and special that a one night stand with a total babe. Of course I could be wrong as I've got no experience in the field. :P

The former of course without a shred of hesitation. I'm fairly good looking myself but I really wouldn't give that much attention to my partner's looks. Of course there will have to be a satisfactory degree of physical attraction, but beyond that looks as a criterion for a serious long-term relationship begin to diminish severely. I'm quite the sentimental guy so things like compatibility, intelligence, spirituality, virtue and the quality of philosophy rank at the top of my criteria. In fact, if a woman turned out to embody these qualities quite intensely, I don't think I'd be able to resist so consequently I'd be extremely lenient looks-wise.

If I was rich, I'd take the bitch.

Because if you weren't, the bitch would probably not take you? =p

Is there a middle ground? A nice girl who loves me a lot? Anway I'd go with the second one mostly cos I'd still have the images after we broke up.

define "have"

"average" around here means "fat". And a superficial "perfect 10" wouldn't stick with me anyway. So either way I lose.

I've had very little experience with girls but that little experience has convinced me that if a girl is a total sweetheart to you , then she's your perfect 10 Cleopatra.The reverse of the proposition may not be true.

I have experience with the loving sex with a long term partner. Never had the one night stand. Don't have much desire for one at this point.

i have always gone for smart girls.

why?

because at some point everyone gets old, fat and ugly but to be stuck forever with old, fat, ugly and stupid would really suck.

I'd prefer a naturally beautiful woman with some intelligence.

the perfect 10 bitch. i'd rent her out and make some easy money.

Note: Pathetic life story ahead. I just wanna get this off my chest. I need to be in bed now, but screw it. I'm writing this anyway. Sometimes when I'm posting in OT, I'll go into great detail about a topic, but it starts to look off-topic for the thread, so I usually end up backspacing most of it. This post will be an exception.

I would take the "average" girl, for sure. I wouldn't want to be with some high maintenance, overly materialistic chick no matter how hot she was. I wouldn't even be able to get such a girl if I wanted because I couldn't come close to affording her stupid "needs". Hell, at this moment, I couldn't even have a so-called average girl because I have a very, very part-time (more like practically no time) job, which is mostly to make payments to monthly car insurance, credit card payments, and current dental bills due by the end of September. I'm surprised I even still have the job considering all the payments I have to make, but I guess it does work out. "Why don't you get a job with more hours?" Because **** job interviews. I prefer to not be in constant fight-or-flight mode.

On top of having little money, I have little to no confidence and desire to go out to places and approach girls, or even go on a dating site. Society demands that only guys be confident, as well as have the means to afford girls' "needs" monetary wise. As for why my confidence and desires to find a girlfriend are low, I'll explain why I think that is. My childhood wasn't stellar, and I'd rather damn myself to hell than repeat high school. I only had a small circle of acquaintances in middle and high school. I sucked at sports my whole life due to shoddy motor skills and poor sportsmanship, so I didn't bother trying to get into anything in athletics, which already drastically lowered my chances of getting a girlfriend in high school.

I had behavioral problems my whole time in elementary and middle school (you know you're fucked up when the teachers put you in special ed as early as kindergarten or first grade; also I was in special ed all the way to high school graduation). Sixth grade was the worst. I got into trouble almost every day and I was grounded for a good length of the school year; my mom probably hated me for most of that year because of such behavioral problems. I was never popular or liked by people all throughout school (as in K-12) compared to many of the other students. I was envious of anyone good-looking or who got good grades. All of this plus speech difficulties (which still affect me today) and anxiety of being around people (especially in high school) contributed to the piss poor confidence I have now. I'm glad there was never a gun kept around my house, because there were times during high school to the first half of 2012 (for different reasons) where I would have loved to exit this planet. I'll explain the first half of 2012 in the next paragraph; It had a big impact on me. I'm sure my brain is repressing some memories from childhood and high school to stop me from going insane. Speaking of childhood memories, I remember a few daycare homes I went to and remembering being disliked by the caretakers and most other kids. Although that was honestly my fault since my behavioral problems weren't limited to school.

Note: Skip to "back on track" below if you don't want to read all this shit.

2012: I was in my first year at community college. All of my classes were online (first semester) because I didn't have a car yet. Online classes require lots of discipline, planning, and hard work. Knowing me, you can already guess this was gonna end in disaster. My first semester (fall of 2011) GPA was a "whopping" 1.8 if I remember correctly, and my second semester GPA was even "better", standing at a wonderful 1.6, I was really getting somewhere (not really). I got a car on my 19th birthday in 2011, but since all campus classes were full, I had to do a second semester of online classes for the spring of 2012. During that second semester, I was so stressed out from school that I wanted to drop out. I left a note for my mom and my stack of school books at the top of our stairs, and told her to meet me in a nearby bank parking lot. Why did I decide to do this? Because I was too cowardly to face her at home.

Time passed and I got sick of waiting for her to come. As I drove out of the parking lot, I saw her vehicle pulling in. She came out since she didn't see me obviously. As she drove closer to my position, I, for some stupid fucking reason, decided to awkwardly wave at her to get her attention. It got her attention, but she didn't react. We got home, and then she lectures me on how much she works and how I should be able to handle school and whatnot. She called me a loser and a deadbeat and demanded that I pack up my video games and throw them away. That would be the equivalent of getting my arms cut off (video games are one of the few things I have in this world to keep me happy; I've been gaming for over half my life and I'd sooner shoot myself in the head than trash my games. Pathetic? Yes. But it's the truth.) Of course, I wasn't letting that happen. I took my keys and attempted to leave, but since my car is in my mom's name, she could report it stolen if I took off. I was at the door and my mom was still threatening to call the cops, but I didn't give a shit. I closed the door and went to my car. As I walked towards my car, my mom actually followed me. I got in my car, but she was blocking me from closing the door trying to get the keys from me. She then grabs me and tells me that if I take off, she can report the car as stolen since it's in her name, and asked me in a strong voice, "Do you want to go to jail?" I proceeded to hand over the keys and start bawling my eyes out. She hugged me for at least a minute before I stopped. I asked her if everything could go back to normal, and she said yes.

She said that I needed to get a job. My uncle actually recommended me (soon to be an embarrassment for him) for a position at his firm. It was basically typing in names and numbers in a computer from a bunch of huge books for eight hours a day. I got the job, but it didn't last long. Big surprise there, huh? I wasn't working hard and fast, even compared to other new people. This was because I was tired as hell because I had to wake up at 8 AM and work till 4 PM, but I stayed up late playing video games all the time, resulting in extreme tiredness (herp derp). So I was called in to the office, and I was told that my production wasn't even close to other new people. The manager said I should take the summer off, but of course I told him I needed the job. I told him I'd take off the next week to get my sleep schedule back on track, and he even gave me a week's pay ($250). A week later, I get a call back, and apparently the supervisors agreed that I sucked ass and canned me. Of course, my mom knew video games were the culprit and grounded me. She gave me a time limit of two weeks to get a job or the video game were history. Luckily, I ended up getting a job at an Italian restaurant in July 2012 and have been there ever since.

Those memories are still recent and have had a huge negative impact on my self-image. Every time I think about it, I want the Earth to swallow me whole. I never thought I'd share it on a public forum, but here I am.

Back on track.....

Everyone always tells nervous guys to "build" their confidence when it comes to wooing girls. What the actual **** does that mean? And they say it as if it were easy. Contrary to popular belief, I can't magically pull confidence out of my ass. I don't even know where to start "building" confidence, and honestly, I don't care that much about it. I read that only 2 or 3% of men in the US between 25 and 40-something were virgins. If I end up in that minority, then so be it. I have no desire to get married and have kids either. Statistics say half of US marriages end in divorce, and if there are kids involved, the woman gets them 90% of the time. Kids in public tend to annoy the piss out of me, which deters my desire to have them. Plus, you're saving boat loads of money by not adding another human to the seven billion plus population. And, as a single guy, you only have to pay for one meal. If I'm destined to be single for life, then that's that. Maybe I'll have just barely enough confidence when I'm 40 to land myself a one night stand or something. Who knows. But honestly, no girl is missing out on not having me as a boyfriend, because I don't got shit to offer at this point in life. Right now, my schooling is really all that matters as far as getting anywhere in life. Getting laid isn't necessary for a human's survival (thank God for that shit).

As of now, I'm happy as long as I have a lock on my door (you can probably guess why) and a functioning PlayStation 3 and games I love like CoD: World at War, Skyrim, and Far Cry 3.

If you actually read this, then I thank you in advance. It's nice to be able to take time and talk about troubles. Writing is a much better method than speaking to talk about stuff like this for me because I have time to think about what I want to communicate without being embarrassed about trying to find the right word to use for an eternity and/or stumbling over words or spouting gibberish.

Again, if you actually read my embarrassing life story, thank you.

ha ha I see what u did thar.

@gamerguru100: I actually read all of that. It's odd, because that is (more or less) how I see my life playing out, almost exactly (I am 15 btw). I have been homeschooled since 5th grade.

I don't really see myself amounting up to anything. I know that my current relationship is not going to work much longer at all because A) Apparently all teenage relationships are destined to fail anyway just because, so I might as well not even try anyway, and B) There is no way in hell that I will be able to offer anything of substance in the near and far future anyway so what's the point? I just don't see the point to anything really. Life seems miserable and hopeless. To me, it seems lonely and heartless. If everything that I have heard from countless people is true, nobody gives a shit about anybody in life. Honestly, I often feel like I would much rather rot in a coffin than put up with the future that I fear so much. I haven't even experienced adult life yet and i'm already sick of the idea of it. I have zero motivation to do anything because all I have heard about life are stories of misery. And considering that I have little to no actual skills, that makes me even more screwed.

All I really have to lean on are my video games. They are my lifeline. They comfort me. The way I see it is that a video game related career is my only chance. I have no other skills. I do aim to be a journalist (gaming journalist) and to move to San Francisco (I currently live in Tennessee), but once again, that fear of life just scares me off.

Sorry if I kind of made that about myself just then. I just wanted to relate because I saw similarities, ya know.

@gamerguru100: What a revelatory and open post. Good read.

A few questions: Why did you not work as hard/fast as the others at your uncle's firm? Do you generally have poor work ethic or were you finding it actually difficult to do any better? If it is poor work ethic, what is the root cause?

Also, many of my early life experiences echo yours, aside from that by the time I was out of middle school, the constant bullying and ostracization had developed a sort of emotional hardness within me. Additionally, I was able to pull myself out of the pit and develop a confidence in who I was, partially because of the fact that I had learned assertiveness as a tool to combat the aforementioned bullying.

What factors do you think contributed to the differences in the way your experiences molded you? Do you ever analyze what brought you to where you are and try to fix the issues? It has often been hammered into me that one of the primary differences between successful people and unsuccessful people is that those who are successful rarely wallow in self pity, but instead learn from and analyze failures and difficulties and actively seek out or create solutions. I know it's much easier said than done (as most things that are worth doing happen to be), but I've found it true.

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To the original question, I'd rather have neither.

I wasn't working fast because I was tired as hell from staying up late like an idiot. I also think I wasn't mature enough for a job that's having you work eight hours a day for five days a week. The only prior work experience I had before my uncle's firm was a summer job landscaping for two or three days a week for eight hours per day, and that was back in freaking 2008. I did have pretty piss poor work ethic at the landscaping job (didn't get a raise like most others did) because it was hard labor in hot summer heat, so I often bitched a lot. However, I think sleep deprivation was the main reason for my termination from my uncle's firm.

As for analyzing to how I got to where I am, yeah, I sometimes think about it. I'd like to blame bad luck, but that's obviously a load of crap. I think my brain chemistry played a big role in behavioral problems in elementary and most of middle school. In high school, I'm sure I wasn't popular since I didn't participate in any sports or after school activities, thus I felt like virtually no one gave a crap about me because I was essentially a nobody. Plus, I think I just gave off vibes that I was socially awkward and anxious, making me an easy target.

As for fixing the issues, I never really tried to actively fix them because I felt so hopeless and vulnerable. I have gotten better over time. I think it's because I matured, albeit slowly. By late middle school, my behavior problems were nothing like they were in elementary school and early middle school. The social anxiety I had in high school more or less diminished when I started taking classes on a college campus and from having my job; I think this is because most people are more mature in college and bullying isn't as common in colleges and workplaces as it is in middle and high school (at least I'd hope so).

I've had a job at the Italian restaurant since July 2012 (almost two years now), and I was only at my uncle's workplace for a month and a half before getting canned, so I'm obviously doing better employment wise. I also just finished my first semester at university, and I got an A- for a final grade in both classes I took. Definitely a better start than my first year at community college by a mile.

I hear you, buddy. Even though I think my future looks good at the moment, I still fear it a bit. I'll most likely be living on my own five years from now, and it's exciting but scary at the same time. But right now in the present, like you, I feel like I have little to no skills in anything. I was never good at sports. My grades throughout most of school (both K-12 and most of college) have been mediocre to put it lightly. Hell, the only things I'm good at right now are holding in my poop and staying up late. And like I've said, I'm severely lacking in the confidence department, which makes getting a girlfriend next to impossible because Western culture demands that only men show confidence, and that if you lack it, you're doomed to virginity. I've read a study saying that there are 1.1 million men in the US between 25-40-something (can't remember the exact age, too lazy to check) that are virgins, which means only 2 to 3% of men in that age bracket are virgins. To make it look even "better", the US has nearly 320 million people, which means this lonely group of men do not even represent one percent of the entire population, and I'll join this minority of men in less than four years (I'm 21 and a half) if I don't get some action. UGH. There's a stigma for men who are virgins and then there is a stigma for women who have had lots of sex partners. Make up your fucking mind, society.

While it does depress me to think about this, I try not to care. Although envy is still there, and it's a shitty feeling to have. I always die a little inside when I'm in public and see couples holding hands or kissing, knowing that unless I magically become motherfucking confident (not gonna happen), I'm not gonna have any human contact. I actually despise the words "confident" and "confidence" because when I see or hear them, you know what I'm thinking about. I especially hate when people tell me to be confident or build confidence when giving advice on getting a girlfriend. Gee, if I could strap on my confident helmet and hop in the confident jet and fly to fucking Confidence Land to get a girlfriend, I would, but I can't. It's not something you can just pull out of your ass. People who tend to give this advice have had good results from said advice, but that doesn't work for everyone. Even my mom has told me that women think confidence in men is sexy. Gee, I never knew that! "Building" confidence is easier said than done, especially if you've had social anxiety or a not so good childhood.

Oh, and don't worry about your post being self-centered. We're ranting, so of course our posts are gonna focus on ourselves, nothing wrong with that. If it helps you for me to say this, just remember that you're still very young. Nothing is set in stone for you right now. As you get older and mature, you may start feeling better about yourself and your future. While I'm not gonna tell you what you should do with your life, it might be a good idea to go to trade school or college and major in something specific that is useful to society, such as anything in business, law, or the medical field. You may or may not find literature interesting, but it's not something you should blow thousands of dollars on for a college degree that won't land you a career. Society isn't in need of literature experts; it needs doctors, lawyers, construction workers, and other careers crucial for the survival of civilization. If becoming a journalist in San Francisco is what you want to do, then by all means go for it. I don't know how much a gaming journalist makes, and I'm sure San Fran is an expensive place to live in, so just bear in mind you might need to work another job if your income from gaming journalism isn't enough to support you. Homelessness is one of the last things I'd wish on my worst enemy (if I had a worst enemy, that is); personally, I'd prefer death over a long period of homelessness.

Again, I'm just giving some friendly advice; I'm not demanding you go to college or anything. A decision like that is up to you and your parents.

Good luck and stay strong! :)

I honestly and truly believe anyone who takes a bitch over a sweetheart is truly an idiot.

This reminds me of my male co-workers. They're always moaning about girls not being 'hot', they won't settle for anyone less than perfect looking. Then I need to remind them that they themselves are fat and ugly, so they have no reason for being picky about outer appearance.

The fun thing is that when we're going out, girls tend to flock to me instead of them... and I'm gay lol. It's not that I'm a super model or something, but I'm better looking than them because I take care of myself. And I don't just stand in a corner gazing at girls like they do. These guys (like many of them) seem to be completely clueless.

You do not have to settle, you can get a hot girl who loves you no matter what. But on topic if I was dating serious, the loving average chick

Question.... are they technically still breathing?

If I was walking somewhere and all of a sudden I'd see you in the middle of a group of chicks who were looking at me like they were wondering how better to slice me up and eat me, I'd probably flock to you as well =P