6 year old tranny wins case against school. she now can use the ladies room

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#1 Posted by ionusX (25716 posts) -

a 6year old trans-gender has won a civil rights case against her elementary school. after her parents sought legal action against the school for forcing her to use the male washroom despite her wearing a dress and generally looking and acting like a girl.

130623-mathis-hmed-9p.photoblog600.jpg

 (for those who cant tell she is the one in the white and red)

the judge pointed out that the school serious misunderstood what a transgender is and the situation she is in. often referring to her as a male or even using quotation marks around "her" (just like that) throughout their legal paperwork.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/23/19105304-transgender-6-year-old-wins-civil-rights-case-to-use-girls-bathroom?lite

good on her

#2 Posted by indzman (18009 posts) -

real drama will arise when she turns 16 and up

#3 Posted by Jehuty08 (1951 posts) -

If she doenst have her male parts anymore, I dont see where the confusion was coming from.

just curious about the whole trans gendered at 6 part, when was the operation done, was it at or around birth, or later when the child was already somewhat self aware?

Edit: just read the article, it doesnt state whether the opperation took place or not, but it was the childs choice atleast.

good for her

#4 Posted by ionusX (25716 posts) -

If she doenst have her male parts anymore, I dont see where the confusion was coming from.

just curious about the whole trans gendered at 6 part, when was the operation done, was it at or around birth, or later when the child was already somewhat self aware?

Jehuty08

no physical changes but the writing is on the wall when she is told she cant act like a girl and wear dresses and identify as a female and starts having child depression esque symptoms. i actually had to ask my trans friend about this, you can be self aware really early in life.

#5 Posted by frannkzappa (3101 posts) -

not sure how i feel about this.

#6 Posted by Jehuty08 (1951 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jehuty08"]

If she doenst have her male parts anymore, I dont see where the confusion was coming from.

just curious about the whole trans gendered at 6 part, when was the operation done, was it at or around birth, or later when the child was already somewhat self aware?

ionusX

no physical changes but the writing is on the wall when she is told she cant act like a girl and wear dresses and identify as a female and starts having child depression esque symptoms. i actually had to ask my trans friend about this, you can be self aware really early in life.

I guess Im even more ignorant on the subject of the transgendered than I initially thought, I always thought that you have to have the surgury performed before you could be considered as such.

If she still has her male naughty bits, then I can see where the school is coming from on the bathroom part. As for the rest of it, I dont see why they couldnt refer to her as a girl.

#7 Posted by valium88 (4455 posts) -

Seriously? Let the child empty his/her bladder where suitable, which should be the of the child to decide, not the school administration. Let the childhood be as good as possible, and not add to the possible hardship to come.

#8 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

having seperate toilets for different sexes is pointless anyway.

I don't see why anyone would opoose a trans person using the toilet that matches the sex they feel associated with.

#9 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

If she still has her male naughty bits, then I can see where the school is coming from on the bathroom part.

Jehuty08

Why? How are a person's private parts at all relevant to where they go to the bathroom at? A toilet is a toilet.

#10 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -
I think the child is a bit too young.....
#11 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

I think the child is a bit too young.....LJS9502_basic
Why is it ok to teach a child the traditional idea of gender at any age, but alternative ones are out of the question?

#12 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think the child is a bit too young.....toast_burner

Why is it ok to teach a child the traditional idea of gender at any age, but alternative ones are out of the question?

Nice straw man.....
#13 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think the child is a bit too young.....LJS9502_basic

Why is it ok to teach a child the traditional idea of gender at any age, but alternative ones are out of the question?

Nice straw man.....

Not really. If you fail to elaborate your point than expect people to misinterpret it. 

#14 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Why is it ok to teach a child the traditional idea of gender at any age, but alternative ones are out of the question?

toast_burner

Nice straw man.....

Not really. If you fail to elaborate your point than expect people to misinterpret it. 

It shouldn't need elaborated.
#15 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Nice straw man.....LJS9502_basic

Not really. If you fail to elaborate your point than expect people to misinterpret it. 

It shouldn't need elaborated.

Of course it does. You said she's too young, but you didn't say why or even what for.

#16 Posted by MissLibrarian (9589 posts) -

I'd want to know more about it but reading that article I agree that I'm not sure how I feel about it and I think the child's a bit too young.

We have a dressing-up box in the library and the number of 4-6 year old boys who put on dresses and caper about is about the same as the number of girls who wear the cowboy hat or whatever, at that age everthing is about exploration and observation, but not so much about life-long convictions :\

I myself was a boy-ish child and prefered Teenage Muntant Ninja Turtles over dolls and things, but I am glad my parents didn't decide I wanted to be male because of it, I am very happy in my female form.

But like I say we don't know much, she may well feel it as a strong conviction, but in a way I can see why the school would want to show some caution or restraint. 

#17 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

I think the child is a bit too young.....LJS9502_basic

For what.

#18 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think the child is a bit too young.....Pffrbt

For what.

Using a toilet obviously

#19 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Not really. If you fail to elaborate your point than expect people to misinterpret it. 

toast_burner

It shouldn't need elaborated.

Of course it does. You said she's too young, but you didn't say why or even what for.

For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|
#20 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

I can see why the school would want to show some caution or restraint. MissLibrarian

Why? Something like this literally isn't a big deal unless they make it one. If a kid identifies as female and wants to use the girls' restroom then fine, who gives a shit? The only person harmed by any of this is the kid if they choose to make her feel ashamed as if something is wrong with her.

#21 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -
If the dude still has his parts he's male to me.. And as such he goes to the boys room. I'm not gonna call my friend the princess of all Nubians just because she identifies with that. And I don't think a kid can make up their minds about this at an age like that. Needs sex-change.
#22 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It shouldn't need elaborated. LJS9502_basic

Of course it does. You said she's too young, but you didn't say why or even what for.

For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|

If we were talking about getting surgery I'd agree. But this is simply about wearing dresses and prefering to be called she rather than he. 

#23 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Of course it does. You said she's too young, but you didn't say why or even what for.

toast_burner

For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|

If we were talking about getting surgery I'd agree. But this is simply about wearing dresses and prefering to be called she rather than he. 

Which is why 'she' goes to the boys' room.
#24 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|ShadowJax04

If we were talking about getting surgery I'd agree. But this is simply about wearing dresses and prefering to be called she rather than he. 

Which is why 'she' goes to the boys' room.

Why?

#25 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|LJS9502_basic

What momentous decision exactly? If she feels like she's a female then let her act and live like one. If she feels differently later on then no big deal. It's not like allowing her to use the restroom she feels appropriate is a life changing, permanent decision. It's not like they're chopping off her parts.

#26 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]For making such a momentous decision....kids do change drastically from what they are at 6.:|Pffrbt

What momentous decision exactly? If she feels like she's a female then let her act and live like one. If she feels differently later on then no big deal. It's not like allowing her to use the restroom she feels appropriate is a life changing, permanent decision. It's not like they're chopping off her parts.

lol...Look at you trying to be all PC.
#27 Posted by MissLibrarian (9589 posts) -

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"]I can see why the school would want to show some caution or restraint. Pffrbt

Why? Something like this literally isn't a big deal unless they make it one. If a kid identifies as female and wants to use the girls' restroom then fine, who gives a shit? The only person harmed by any of this is the kid if they choose to make her feel ashamed as if something is wrong with her.

WTF? A kid could decide she wants to change her name to Fifi McTrixiebelle or whatever, but unless her parents let her do that legally and bring the school the deed poll papers the school is under no obligation to do whatever a 6 year old wants.
#28 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

lol...Look at you trying to be all PC.LJS9502_basic

Look at you not actually responding to anything said.

#29 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]lol...Look at you trying to be all PC.Pffrbt

Look at you not actually responding to anything said.

What did you say exactly? That a small child knows what they want for the rest of their lives? Well that would be wrong so why should I bother answering that.
#30 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

WTF? A kid could decide she wants to change her name to Fifi McTrixiebelle or whatever
That's a different scenario and isn't relevant.
but unless her parents let her do that legally and bring the school the deed poll papers the school is under no obligation to do whatever a 6 year old wantsMissLibrarian

Evidently the judge disagrees with you. The school is obligated to let a child use the restroom they're most comfortable with. Especially when no one is harmed by them doing so.

#31 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"]WTF? A kid could decide she wants to change her name to Fifi McTrixiebelle or whatever
That's a different scenario and isn't relevant.
but unless her parents let her do that legally and bring the school the deed poll papers the school is under no obligation to do whatever a 6 year old wantsPffrbt

Evidently the judge disagrees with you. The school is obligated to let a child use the restroom they're most comfortable with. Especially when no one is harmed by them doing so.

Wonder how the judge would rule if presented with a lawsuit from parents of girls.....
#32 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]If we were talking about getting surgery I'd agree. But this is simply about wearing dresses and prefering to be called she rather than he. 

toast_burner

Which is why 'she' goes to the boys' room.

Why?

We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old. I imagine that's bad for business. Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today. Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.  Boys go one place, girls go another. Then in a few years they can sneak into each others bathrooms all they want. I imagine the school would upset people if they threw bathroom order out the window. I'm not afraid of change. Not that I would care seeing as my kids don't go to elementary but it's not time for a change. She can feel she's a girl but if she doesn't get a sex change, which is ludicrous anyways at that age, she stays in the boys room.

#33 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -
[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"]WTF? A kid could decide she wants to change her name to Fifi McTrixiebelle or whatever
That's a different scenario and isn't relevant.
but unless her parents let her do that legally and bring the school the deed poll papers the school is under no obligation to do whatever a 6 year old wantsLJS9502_basic

Evidently the judge disagrees with you. The school is obligated to let a child use the restroom they're most comfortable with. Especially when no one is harmed by them doing so.

Wonder how the judge would rule if presented with a lawsuit from parents of girls.....

Ya, bingo.
#34 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

What did you say exactly?
"What momentous decision exactly? If she feels like she's a female then let her act and live like one. If she feels differently later on then no big deal. It's not like allowing her to use the restroom she feels appropriate is a life changing, permanent decision. It's not like they're chopping off her parts."

That a small child knows what they want for the rest of their lives?
No.

Well that would be wrong so why should I bother answering that.LJS9502_basic

You know that isn't what I said. The only reason you're refusing to respond is because you know you're wrong.

#35 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

Wonder how the judge would rule if presented with a lawsuit from parents of girls.....LJS9502_basic

They don't have a case.

#36 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"] Which is why 'she' goes to the boys' room.ShadowJax04

Why?

We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old. I imagine that's bad for business. Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today. Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.  Boys go one place, girls go another. Then in a few years they can sneak into each others bathrooms all they want. I imagine the school would upset people if they threw bathroom order out the window. I'm not afraid of change. Not that I would care seeing as my kids don't go to elementary but it's not time for a change. She can feel she's a girl but if she doesn't get a sex change, which is ludicrous anyways at that age, she stays in the boys room.

You are aware toilets have stalls? I've been to unisex bathrooms a few times and I never saw anyones vagina's when in there. 

And even if someone does get a peak, so what?

#37 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]lol...Look at you trying to be all PC.LJS9502_basic

Look at you not actually responding to anything said.

What did you say exactly? That a small child knows what they want for the rest of their lives? Well that would be wrong so why should I bother answering that.

It's as much as a decicion for the rest as their life as if they would spend those early years acting as a boy. 

#38 Posted by dramaybaz (6020 posts) -
DAT JB poster.
#39 Posted by Pffrbt (6564 posts) -

We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old.
We're not (not that there's much point in having them seperate to begin with). A person's private parts are no one else's business so it isn't relevant to whether she should be allowed to use the girls' restroom.
I imagine that's bad for business.
What business?
Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today.
What the f*ck are you even talking about?
Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.ShadowJax04

Pretty sure kids seeing anyone's private parts at school wouldn't sit well with parents regardless the sex they belonged to.

#40 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old.
We're not (not that there's much point in having them seperate to begin with). A person's private parts are no one else's business so it isn't relevant to whether she should be allowed to use the girls' restroom.
I imagine that's bad for business.
What business?
Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today.
What the f*ck are you even talking about?
Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.Pffrbt

Pretty sure kids seeing anyone's private parts at school wouldn't sit well with parents regardless the sex they belonged to.

Imagine what would happen if a kid becomes aware of vagina's, it would be tragic for both himself and his family. 

"Hey mum! Guess what!"

"What?"

"VAGINA!"

Tragic, just tragic

#41 Posted by foxhound_fox (88660 posts) -
It's things like this that will slowly educate the public on these issues.
#42 Posted by ad1x2 (5664 posts) -
I read the story yesterday but didn't think it was worth posting. All I can say is while I don't believe in discrimination, I have to question how someone that young can say they are a girl when they haven't even hit puberty yet. What is going to happen if five to ten years from now that child realizes they like girls and want to be a boy again? I can see the bullying already.

There is a reason we don't let people make most major life-altering decisions until they are adults and it has little to do with discrimination. Also, I doubt the parents of the female students want to explain to their daughters why their classmate has a penis there is no 100% guarantee they will never see it while in the bathroom.
#43 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

I read the story yesterday but didn't think it was worth posting. All I can say is while I don't believe in discrimination, I have to question how someone that young can say they are a girl when they haven't even hit puberty yet. What is going to happen if five to ten years from now that child realizes they like girls and want to be a boy again? I can see the bullying already.

 

There is a reason we don't let people make most major life-altering decisions until they are adults and it has little to do with discrimination. Also, I doubt the parents of the female students want to explain to their daughters why their classmate has a penis there is no 100% guarantee they will never see it while in the bathroom.ad1x2

If the concern is about bullying then it is entirely to do with discrimination. 

 

While this picture is about gays, it still works with your second paragrph

gNgnB.jpg

#45 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -
I read the story yesterday but didn't think it was worth posting. All I can say is while I don't believe in discrimination, I have to question how someone that young can say they are a girl when they haven't even hit puberty yet. What is going to happen if five to ten years from now that child realizes they like girls and want to be a boy again? I can see the bullying already.

There is a reason we don't let people make most major life-altering decisions until they are adults and it has little to do with discrimination. Also, I doubt the parents of the female students want to explain to their daughters why their classmate has a penis there is no 100% guarantee they will never see it while in the bathroom.ad1x2
Well said. This man gets it.
#48 Posted by ShadowJax04 (3345 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old.
We're not (not that there's much point in having them seperate to begin with). A person's private parts are no one else's business so it isn't relevant to whether she should be allowed to use the girls' restroom.
I imagine that's bad for business.
What business?
Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today.
What the f*ck are you even talking about?
Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.Pffrbt

Pretty sure kids seeing anyone's private parts at school wouldn't sit well with parents regardless the sex they belonged to.

What business? You think schools are run on cakes? Less angry parents = more cake. Not the time to change toilet rules. You have a penis you go the boys room.

#49 Posted by toast_burner (21734 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]We don't need to mingle boys and girls bathrooms on the whim of one six year old.
We're not (not that there's much point in having them seperate to begin with). A person's private parts are no one else's business so it isn't relevant to whether she should be allowed to use the girls' restroom.
I imagine that's bad for business.
What business?
Kids going home to their parents telling them they actually saw a vagina today.
What the f*ck are you even talking about?
Wouldn't sit good with the parents, I dont think.ShadowJax04

Pretty sure kids seeing anyone's private parts at school wouldn't sit well with parents regardless the sex they belonged to.

What business? You think schools are run on cakes? Less angry parents = more cake. Not the time to change toilet rules. You have a penis you go the boys room.

If lot's of kids parents were racist would you support a schools decision to force black kids to wear make up so they look white?

#50 Posted by ad1x2 (5664 posts) -

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]I read the story yesterday but didn't think it was worth posting. All I can say is while I don't believe in discrimination, I have to question how someone that young can say they are a girl when they haven't even hit puberty yet. What is going to happen if five to ten years from now that child realizes they like girls and want to be a boy again? I can see the bullying already.

 

There is a reason we don't let people make most major life-altering decisions until they are adults and it has little to do with discrimination. Also, I doubt the parents of the female students want to explain to their daughters why their classmate has a penis there is no 100% guarantee they will never see it while in the bathroom.toast_burner

If the concern is about bullying then it is entirely to do with discrimination. 

 

While this picture is about gays, it still works with your second paragrph

gNgnB.jpg

I don't care if two men or two women want to get married. They are adults and that is a personal decision between two consenting people of legal age. This is more based on letting a six-year old tell you that they are a girl when they are still a boy and they don't even fully understand the world yet. You can call bullying wrong but we all know children will do what they can get away with and don't have the same empathy for their peers most sane adults will have. If this person decides in a few years they want to be a boy again, or his voice changes and he can't make himself sound feminine enough then his peers will have a field day with him over this. There are a lot of things I wanted to do while a child that my parents said no to and looking back I'm glad somebody older than me stopped me.