13 Dead and dozens injured in Barcelona van terror attack

A van plowed into pedestrians at a popular tourist area in the center of Barcelona, Spain, this morning, killing at least 13 people in what the police were calling a terrorist attack. At least 50 were wounded, Catalan officials said, and one man had been taken into custody.

The story is still developing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/europe/barcelona-catalunya-van.html

We need to stop "saving" the migrants from the Meditarranean.

What we need to stop doing is haphazardly marching into these middle eastern countries, destabilizing their governments and allowing radial factions to fill the void.

@bfa1509: Stop being willfully ignorant. The Paris and Night Club shootings were both done by radicalized Muslims who were born in their respective countries or from Iraq, not Syria. The terrorists are already here, punishing those escaping war zones because the West doesn't intend to **** off anytime soon really shows the decadence of the Christian capitalist culture.

A bit too late for that, and we're paying a hefty price. Hussein and Gaddafi, although evil themselves, were great terrorist killers.

The people floating around a few miles off the coast of Libya waiting to be transported to Italy by the UN and NGOs are definitely not Syrians (at least the vast majority aren't). You are right, the terrorists are already here, which is why we can't afford to take more in, let them isolate themselves into their own crooked societies, starting their families and leading to thousands if not millions more home-brewed followers of radical Islam (aka Islam).

The frequency of terrorist attacks will grow proportionally to the amount of migrants who come in. This is reason enough to stem the flow. It is highly unlikely that I will ever get caught up in a terrorist attack. But it is dead certain that I will be affected by the transport disruption, overbearing security and tensions that ripple from terrorist attacks. We should not be expected to surrender our quality of life for the sake of the religion of others.

@bfa1509:

None of what you just said justified your prior statement or is backed by facts.

From Immigration Policy Risk Analysis:

"Foreign-born terrorism on U.S. soil is a low-probability event that imposes high costs on its victims despite relatively small risks and low costs on Americans as a whole.68 From 1975 through 2015, the average chance of dying in an attack by a foreign-born terrorist on U.S. soil was 1 in 3,609,709 a year. For 30 of those 41 years, no Americans were killed on U.S. soil in terrorist attacks caused by foreigners or immigrants. Foreign-born terrorism is a hazard to American life, liberty, and private property, but it is manageable given the huge economic benefits of immigration and the small costs of terrorism. The United States government should continue to devote resources to screening immigrants and foreigners for terrorism or other threats, but large policy changes like an immigration or tourist moratorium would impose far greater costs than benefits.

You're just being paranoid. If you want to follow a "No Muslim, No Risk" dogmatic policy then get rid of your guns, Christians, etc. Hell anything that has a risk.

We should not be expected to surrender our quality of life for the sake of the religion of others."

Do you live in the U.S. by any chance?

I don't care for any religion. They are all primal backwards belief systems rooted in thanatophobia, authoritarianism, sexism, and tribalism. It's laughable that you somehow believe that Islam inherently grows terrorists and will mobilize refugees instead of assimilate. Like we don't have a recorded history of Western savages disrupting Muslim and Greco-Roman societies?

Summer of Radicalization. Whole world about to be destabilized.

@ferrari2001: I both agree with you and the person you quoted. We need to stop messing around in the Middle East AND we need to stop taking in immigrants without first making sure they are not radicals or some mentally unstable person.

@wizard: Has crime and terrorist attacks not gone up? Why do you insist in pretending it doesn't? Why do the German police need to be out in full force on New Years? Are the videos on youtube of little girls screaming as they are groped by immigrants faked?

It's sad that this story doesn't shock me.

It will continue until countries unite to finish off ISIS once and for all

@Jakejack: Statistics don't support your narrative. According to the associated press the incidents in Germany were committed by mostly North Africans and were not vetted refugees, actually illegal. According to DataGrave deaths from terror attacks peaked massively in 2015 and declined in 2016 and are lower even now in 2017. Yes, you could point out that 2015 is when the West started accepting migrants, but the 2015 data is massively inflated by attacks in non-western countries.The Paris attacks had the 10th most fatalities and the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks were from Iraq and France. Crime rates you say? According to the Swedish National Council of Crime prevention there wasn't any impact of refugees on crime rates. The 2015 rate was 11% lower than the prior year. In a blanket statistical statement, immigrants also commit less crime than the natives of the countries that they migrate too (Cato Institute).

The Brussels attackers in 2016 were also North African.

According to The Atantic. "Between 1975 and 2015, the “annual chance of being murdered by somebody other than a foreign-born terrorist was 252.9 times greater than the chance of dying in a terrorist attack committed by a foreign-born terrorist,” according to Nowrasteh."

That includes 911.

From what think tanks present, refugees present less of a threat to the countries that they immigrate to than natives, both Muslim and non-Muslim. If you want to argue the cost of humanitarian aid, fine. But claiming they are dangerous is pretty ignorant considering even in the attacks most were illegal, native, or non-refugee.

Really the Alt-Righters on the internet are really just paranoid and project their fears of cultural Marxism as accusations of savagery and violence. It's classic tribalism and is a sign of rational ability.

@wizard: Although I appreciate your well-thought-out response, I sort of feel like you are splitting hairs so you can state "facts do not support your narrative."

You keep excluding "non legal immigrants" from your citations, as well as North African refugees.

- Are illegal immigrants not immigrants?

- Are immigrants from North Africa not immigrants?

Seems sort of lame to redefine what an immigrant is so your "facts" can support "your narrative."

p.s. I never had a problem with legal immigration, ironically enough.

The human race... wow. We can achieve so much when we put our minds to it. On the other hand...

@Jakejack: My original OP was in response to a vague "Mediterranean" reference to the drowned refugees. I assumed he meant by "saving" those who proceeded through the legal system.

We need to stop "saving" the migrants from the Meditarranean.

I will clarify: I am only statistically defending refugees from the Middle East who have been legally vetted and accounted for. As far as I know this is to whom my data defends. Illegal immigrants by definition have committed a crime and so by nature it is assumed they are excluded. This isn't "redefining" anything it's defining.

You are right, the terrorists are already here, which is why we can't afford to take more in, let them isolate themselves into their own crooked societies, starting their families and leading to thousands if not millions more home-brewed followers of radical Islam (aka Islam).

The African differential was to address two things: One, many of the African immigrants in Germany on New Years were not legal (If I didn't state that than I apologize). Two, if African immigrants are committing terror at higher rates than those from the middle east, it is a significant distinction that Islam isn't the root of the problem, especially concerning that the religiosity of Muslim Africans is mixed. This of course is in addition to your completely incorrect assessment that immigrants were raising crime rates.

To be clear the main point or "narrative" is this: Legal refugees pose less of a threat to Western citizens then the citizens themselves, so their is no logic concerning generalized crime or terrorism to ban them. If you have no problem with this, then fine. It wasn't for you.

They stopped a second attack, had explosive belts. They went to magical cloud god, or whatever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40971004

Finland just got culturally enriched.

:( This just sad & fucked up...

thanks goodness for that.

let's be honest here, the terrorist are always from another origin, children or grandchildren of immigrants, which in a lot a cases weren't legal in the first place either but because they had kids and they went to school, they worked and contributed to society, or any other reason they got papers anyway.

Still that doesn't mean immigration is the problem, like I said, in some cases these are grandchildren of immigrants coming here in last century. I'm not saying they're should be be any laws around immigration but that's a whole other discussion.

The problem lays within the regulation of the internet. When 9/11 happened, the terrorist were trained in special kamps, now they don't need that anymore, they have the internet. One of the terrorist was a 17 year old kid, I can't believe he just came up with this plan with his high school friends, and it's already known there is much more to this terrorist attack than just the four or five terrorist.

@bfa1509: The migrants said they where going to do this when they where all poring in but did the government listen. Yes I think they did and want this to happen. Only thing I can think off. When it was happening last year I was watching one live and this migrant went up to camera and did the peace sign then the thumbs down sign.

I think it's a bit insensitive to call this a terror attack. It was a cultural expression.

Glad to see that terrorists have succeeded in what they are doing, turning people against each other. I'm curious how the people here would be reacting if the 'radical Islam' or ISIS were actually a Christian/atheist group.

@nygamespotter:

You totally busted us dude. Whites are racist. Normally they enjoy being slaughtered, but only by other whites. It's super racist to complain about muslims terrorizing people when all those racists actually enjoy being murdered by whites!

@Jakejack: Jesus Christ your comprehension, or lack thereof. No wonder these discussions go nowhere.