The Wii U is not underpowered (READ)

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#51 Posted by Shinobi120 (5570 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"] Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

mrbig1225

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

You are the exact definition of a sheep, how do you know that wii u can't compete with 6-7 year old hardware? Wait are you basing that on 1st gen titles and ports? Yes you are lol, its pretty clear and evident that you don't have a clue about how developers make software for platforms.

The wii u has already proven its next gen. Please visit this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMoZy6OMm0.

Based on your explanation the 360 isn't much of an upgrade over the original xbox. Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! that proves its next gen stop being a noob. Also your argument about the next gen is wrong.... we are at the point of diminishing returns don't get your hopes up.

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.

#52 Posted by Vickman178 (866 posts) -

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.

Shinobi120

Times have changed, it actually takes a quite a bit of money and resources to make games look better. Why do you think PC games don't look that much dramatically better then there console counterparts? Because it costs too much!

#53 Posted by Vickman178 (866 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"] Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

mrbig1225

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

You are the exact definition of a sheep, how do you know that wii u can't compete with 6-7 year old hardware? Wait are you basing that on 1st gen titles and ports? Yes you are lol, its pretty clear and evident that you don't have a clue about how developers make software for platforms. The wii u has already proven its next gen. Please visit this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMoZy6OMm0. Based on your explanation the 360 isn't much of an upgrade over the original xbox. Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! that proves its next gen stop being a noob. Also your argument about the next gen is wrong.... we are at the point of diminishing returns don't get your hopes up.

Somebody lock this its turning into freaking system wars.

#54 Posted by Shinobi120 (5570 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shinobi120"]

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.Vickman178

Times have changed, it actually takes a quite a bit of money and resources to make games look better. Why do you think PC games don't look that much dramatically better then there console counterparts? Because it costs too much!

I know, I was just trying to prove to him that there are launch ports that can show off better graphics on a brand new console than ports on last gen systems. The Wii U so far has failed to show us that.

#55 Posted by Vickman178 (866 posts) -

[QUOTE="Vickman178"]

[QUOTE="Shinobi120"]

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.Shinobi120

Times have changed, it actually takes a quite a bit of money and resources to make games look better. Why do you think PC games don't look that much dramatically better then there console counterparts? Because it costs too much!

I know, I was just trying to prove to him that there are launch ports that can show off better graphics on a brand new console than ports on last gen systems. The Wii U so far has failed to show us that.

Well there was those two tech demo's they showed last year. The Zelda and Japanese garden ones.

#56 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -
[QUOTE="Vickman178"]

[QUOTE="Shinobi120"]

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.

Times have changed, it actually takes a quite a bit of money and resources to make games look better. Why do you think PC games don't look that much dramatically better then there console counterparts? Because it costs too much!

From Dark Souls with resolution patch, PC version has renders the same art assets at higher quality i.e. higher AF, less texture blur, higher frame rates.
#57 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

That wall of text you pasted is nice and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that many developers are already having problems developing for the system because of the slow CPU.

And if the devs who make the most technically advanced games in the industry (i.e. GSC aka the Metro series devs) say that it's a "horrible, slow CPU", this does say something.

nameless12345

One problem, Metro 2033 runs OK with single core AMD K8 Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.0Ghz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AggnUy0iepA

AMD K8 Athlon 64 has 128bit FADD SSE1 with 64bit FMUL SSE1.

Wii U has 3 PowerPC G3 type CPUs with 64bit SIMD @ 1.25Ghz.

With the right GPU, Metro 2033 is known run OK on single core/dual thread Intel Atom N270 @1.6Ghz (FADD SSE SIMD are 128bit wide, while rest of SSE SIMD are 64bit wide).

#58 Posted by mrbig1225 (25 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

Shinobi120

You are the exact definition of a sheep, how do you know that wii u can't compete with 6-7 year old hardware? Wait are you basing that on 1st gen titles and ports? Yes you are lol, its pretty clear and evident that you don't have a clue about how developers make software for platforms.

The wii u has already proven its next gen. Please visit this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMoZy6OMm0.

Based on your explanation the 360 isn't much of an upgrade over the original xbox. Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! that proves its next gen stop being a noob. Also your argument about the next gen is wrong.... we are at the point of diminishing returns don't get your hopes up.

And yet, the launch games of the 360 had better graphics over the original Xbox, Gamecube, & PS2. It already showed us a huge jump from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox 1 era.

And you can say the exact same for the wii u, did you not see the youtube video i linked? That game shows slight visual improvement over the original xbox... its proven that the wiiu has better graphics while it isnt the leap that you are expecting... my point as i stated earlier and as someone mentioned... we are at the point of dimishing returns... in order for you see the what you define as "next gen" graphics would cost a ton only for a slight visual improvement... if that wasnt the case then the pc versions of games would like 100x better than there console counterparts and thats simply not the case. Also as stated before developers have had 7 years to optimise there code over the 360 and ps3 life span... they have not had that with the wii u. People sometimes really need to know what they are asking for. Point 2 in the rare event that someone did make such a console it would cost 600-800.00 and the games would cost more than we have seen in any previous generation. Dude this isnt rocket science... stop being a fan boy and look at the facts.

#59 Posted by Jaysonguy (38210 posts) -

Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! mrbig1225

So the Wii U is able to make it's last gen ports looks good?

Also those ports are partially broken with frame rate issues, missing content, and graphical imperfections.

This is really the course you want to take your argument though? I sense a lot of sadness from your side if this goes on.

#60 Posted by Heirren (19665 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"]Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! Jaysonguy

So the Wii U is able to make it's last gen ports looks good?

Also those ports are partially broken with frame rate issues, missing content, and graphical imperfections.

This is really the course you want to take your argument though? I sense a lot of sadness from your side if this goes on.

The ports are rush jobs. Generally Nintendo only does all-new games for a new console. Allowing the ports was a sign of good faith to 3rd parties--essentially allowing them to make a quick buck.
#61 Posted by themagicbum9720 (6513 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

Vickman178

You are the exact definition of a sheep, how do you know that wii u can't compete with 6-7 year old hardware? Wait are you basing that on 1st gen titles and ports? Yes you are lol, its pretty clear and evident that you don't have a clue about how developers make software for platforms. The wii u has already proven its next gen. Please visit this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMoZy6OMm0. Based on your explanation the 360 isn't much of an upgrade over the original xbox. Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! that proves its next gen stop being a noob. Also your argument about the next gen is wrong.... we are at the point of diminishing returns don't get your hopes up.

Somebody lock this its turning into freaking system wars.

its just jaysonguy spewing bs.
#62 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

That wall of text you pasted is nice and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that many developers are already having problems developing for the system because of the slow CPU.

Vickman178

Who are these "many" developers you speak of?

The only developers that said the CPU was slow was the Metro dev and the Tekken dev. Other then that most developers have had nothing but positive things to say for the systems capabilities. Your only looking at two negatives against a lot more positive comments.

EDIT: Here's another positive quote for everybody from Michel Ancel.

"What surprises me with Wii U is that we dont have many technical problems. Its really running very well, in fact.Were not obliged to constantly optimize things. Even on the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions [of Origins], we had some fill-rate issues and things like that.So its partly us we improved the engine but I think the console is quite powerful. Surprisingly powerful. And there a lot of memory.You can really have huge textures, and its crazy because sometimes the graphic artist we built our textures in very high-dentition. They could be used in a movie.Then we compress them, but sometimes they forget to do the compression and it still works! [Laughs] So yeah, its quite powerful. Its hard sometimes when youre one of the first developers because its up to you to come up with solutions to certain problems. Butthe core elements of the console are surprisingly powerful." -Michel Ancel, Designer of Rayman Legends"


Michel Ancel Designer of Rayman Legends

Rayman Legends runs in native 1080p at 60fps by the way. Its not underpowered compared to PS360, sure it might not be as well off when the next Xbox and PS come out but its still a capable system that will be just fine. Nintendo said they would go after the hardcore by making a HD system and getting the games people want to play and thats exactly what they're doing.

Well Rayman Legends is a 2D game and those may be less CPU intensive.

But by the sound of it it seems the console is great for 2D games (which almost crys for a new hand-drawn Yoshi's Island...).

#63 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

That wall of text you pasted is nice and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that many developers are already having problems developing for the system because of the slow CPU.

And if the devs who make the most technically advanced games in the industry (i.e. GSC aka the Metro series devs) say that it's a "horrible, slow CPU", this does say something.

ronvalencia

One problem, Metro 2033 runs OK with single core AMD K8 Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.0Ghz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AggnUy0iepA

AMD K8 Athlon 64 has 128bit FADD SSE1 with 64bit FMUL SSE1.

Wii U has 3 PowerPC G3 type CPUs with 64bit SIMD @ 1.25Ghz.

With the right GPU, Metro 2033 is known run OK on single core/dual thread Intel Atom N270 @1.6Ghz (FADD SSE SIMD are 128bit wide, while rest of SSE SIMD are 64bit wide).

So the problem could be the 64-bit SIMD like it was already implyed in that text blueydwlf pasted.

I got nothing against an efficient design but there would have to be significant improvements in the CPU architecture if they wanted it to be competitive to newer designs.

I think a quad core (1 core reseved for OS) Power7 chip would be excellent choice for Wii U.

While it would increase the heat and power draw, it would outperform the CPUs in PS3 and 360 by quite a big margin.

And combined with a slightly better graphics chip (6770M) and 2 gigs of fast GDDR5 RAM (512 megs reserved for OS) and a larger storage space (32 GB flash RAM for basic model, 120 GB HDD for premium model), it would be pretty impressive while not raising the costs dramatically (299$ for basic model and 399$ for premium with a game would be my choice).

Anyway, here's the supposed Wii U CPU (+ GPU):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_%28microprocessor%29

It's three chips on one substrate actually. (GPU + CPU + ARM co-processor)

#64 Posted by mrbig1225 (25 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"]Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! Jaysonguy

So the Wii U is able to make it's last gen ports looks good?

Also those ports are partially broken with frame rate issues, missing content, and graphical imperfections.

This is really the course you want to take your argument though? I sense a lot of sadness from your side if this goes on.

And somehow that is this the hardware that causes this? Don't hear frame rate issues in Zombie U or Rayman? Oh that's right its on ports..... Stop being a noob lol
#65 Posted by mrbig1225 (25 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"]Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! Jaysonguy

So the Wii U is able to make it's last gen ports looks good?

Also those ports are partially broken with frame rate issues, missing content, and graphical imperfections.

This is really the course you want to take your argument though? I sense a lot of sadness from your side if this goes on.

And what console is it that you have? Sadness... that's funny I love all systems that bring something to the table... buts I find it extremely funny some people expectations when it's a apparent they don't have a clue how tech works. This so called power race is a dead end race. The reason why I call some people sheep is because they are "herded" into thinking certain something's without even thinking the why behind it. The power race is dead... people have gotten used to each generation of graphics being ten fold better than the previous generation on day one.... those days are dead ladies and gents. Nintendo knows this and Sony almost paid the ultimate price trying to disprove it. Do you really believe in this type of global economy would anyone release a console more than 400.00? How much do you think the 360 and the ps3 truly cost sony and microsoft? Do you realize that big pretty High rez high texture games cost lots of money to create? Based on your assessment, Sony and microsoft can release a console that is uber powerful, cheap for the consumer and developers will spend millions to build games for it cause the games "look so awesome and its next gen".... Dont make me laugh. What developers look for is the happy medium, they can give a rats ass about the power of a system as long as it doesnt limit them creatively and has the potential to have lots of market share. Your argument is flawed
#66 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

So the problem could be the 64-bit SIMD like it was already implyed in that text blueydwlf pasted.

I got nothing against an efficient design but there would have to be significant improvements in the CPU architecture if they wanted it to be competitive to newer designs.

I think a quad core (1 core reseved for OS) Power7 chip would be excellent choice for Wii U.

While it would increase the heat and power draw, it would outperform the CPUs in PS3 and 360 by quite a big margin.

And combined with a slightly better graphics chip (6770M) and 2 gigs of fast GDDR5 RAM (512 megs reserved for OS) and a larger storage space (32 GB flash RAM for basic model, 120 GB HDD for premium model), it would be pretty impressive while not raising the costs dramatically (299$ for basic model and 399$ for premium with a game would be my choice).

Anyway, here's the supposed Wii U CPU (+ GPU):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_%28microprocessor%29

It's three chips on one substrate actually. (GPU + CPU + ARM co-processor)

nameless12345

Wii U has 3 PowerPC 750 type cores with 64bit SIMD (FMA) units vs single core AMD K8 Athlon 64 3000+ 2.0Ghz (128bit FADD SIMD, 64bit FMUL SIMD). Something strange with this scenario.

----

6770M is only 6650M with 675-to-725MHz clockspeed with mandatory 128bit GDDR5 memory. 6770M was renamed to 7690M XT (e.g. HP Envy 15-3040nr laptop).

7690M XT has clockspeed of 725 MHz with 480 stream processors and 128bit GDDR5 900Mhz.

7570M has clockspeed of 450-to-650 MHz with 400 stream processors and 64bit DDR3 or 64bit GDDR5 option.

Nintendo selected 64bit VRAM to reduce PCB cost i.e. half the traces lines as 128bit version. Selecting 128bit VRAM would increase the cost of the PCB.

#67 Posted by King_Wii (176 posts) -

Sadly power be it strong or weak means nothing if your system dies after 10 hours of gameplay... look at what mine is doing, and I'm not the onlyone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaORUwCQr9w&feature=plcp

#68 Posted by SoAmazingBaby (2837 posts) -
Who cares. Gameplay ftw.
#69 Posted by Jaysonguy (38210 posts) -

Who cares. Gameplay ftw.SoAmazingBaby

So things like AI don't matter to you?

#70 Posted by FPS1337 (2517 posts) -

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

Jaysonguy

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

No not really. It explains why the difference isn't immediately noticeable, and how the architechture of the Wii-U is completely different from modern consoles, and how the low clock speed does not mean it is less powerful. He also explain how the Wii-U should be noticeably more powerful once developers make use of the new features. He does not say its on par with the Xbox 360 and PS3, he claims it should be far better, he also doesn't say anything about the Wii-U being outclassed when other consoles release, he just says who knows pretty much.
#71 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26274 posts) -

So the Wii U is able to make it's last gen ports looks good?

Also those ports are partially broken with frame rate issues, missing content, and graphical imperfections.

This is really the course you want to take your argument though? I sense a lot of sadness from your side if this goes on.

Jaysonguy

Yeah it's totally the fault of the Wii-U and not the developers for bad design decisions.

So things like AI don't matter to you?

Jaysonguy

Developers need to learn to code functional AI first. Having a top-end CPU doesn't automatically mean it'll fix bad design.

#72 Posted by mrbig1225 (25 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

FPS1337

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

No not really. It explains why the difference isn't immediately noticeable, and how the architechture of the Wii-U is completely different from modern consoles, and how the low clock speed does not mean it is less powerful. He also explain how the Wii-U should be noticeably more powerful once developers make use of the new features. He does not say its on par with the Xbox 360 and PS3, he claims it should be far better, he also doesn't say anything about the Wii-U being outclassed when other consoles release, he just says who knows pretty much.

You know what i find funny, fan boys they are so critical and quick to make judgment on items they don't have a clue about.... Just in if you haven't heard the next Xbox....aka Durango will be shipping with a 1.6Ghz processor.... looks like my points are pretty valid now. Mind you that amd will be supplying the gpu.... so it does appear that the wii u dont look so bad or underpowered does it.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/11148/article/xbox-720-processor-details-rumored-to-have-been-leaked/

#73 Posted by FPS1337 (2517 posts) -

[QUOTE="FPS1337"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

mrbig1225

No not really. It explains why the difference isn't immediately noticeable, and how the architechture of the Wii-U is completely different from modern consoles, and how the low clock speed does not mean it is less powerful. He also explain how the Wii-U should be noticeably more powerful once developers make use of the new features. He does not say its on par with the Xbox 360 and PS3, he claims it should be far better, he also doesn't say anything about the Wii-U being outclassed when other consoles release, he just says who knows pretty much.

You know what i find funny, fan boys they are so critical and quick to make judgment on items they don't have a clue about.... Just in if you haven't heard the next Xbox....aka Durango will be shipping with a 1.6Ghz processor.... looks like my points are pretty valid now. Mind you that amd will be supplying the gpu.... so it does appear that the wii u dont look so bad or underpowered does it.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/11148/article/xbox-720-processor-details-rumored-to-have-been-leaked/

Awesome find. Prooves clock speed means nothing. From my point of view, it looks like next gen system are going for more efficient designs rather then raw horsepower as its a cheaper, quieter and better performing. If this rumor is true it looks like the Wii-U will be very close to the Xbox 720 in terms of graphics, unless it has 8 or 16 cores or a GPU that just blows the Wii-U out of the water which I doubt since from what I've heard the Wii-U's GPGPU is a lot better current console GPU's, but from what I've heard the CPU is likely just gonna be 4 cores due to price. I think game companies have realized that you can't win by just having raw horsepowers, using cheaper more efficient designs will stop issues like the Xbox's red rings and noise complaints. Just wait til Retro releases their game, or when a Nintendo Zelda or Mario releases, it will look a lot lot better then any current gen games.
#74 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-trine-2-face-off

Trine 2 on Wii U is better than a couple of other 7th gen consoles.

#75 Posted by DaRockWilder (5451 posts) -

I can see going by people's replies that a lot didn't read the article I put on the first post and jumped right into attacking the console. This next gen won't be a huge jump like it was going to PS2 to PS3 or XBox to Xbox 360, I was just trying to educate some people that say it is underpowered or worse than current gen consoles. When in reality is it a lot better and you will see it in the future.

But I have a feeling not even the next Xbox or Playstation will be able to run any games in native 1080p, I think it will be native 720p. A lot of current 360 or PS3 games have trouble running at 720p let alone 1080p and they use lower native resolutions upscaled to 720p and 1080p.

Don't believe me? Read here and scroll down a bit to see the list http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

#76 Posted by mariokart64fan (19805 posts) -

I thought legacy programming skills are exactly what would benefit Wii U?

Because it's CPU is based on Wii's (thus GameCube's), the programmers that mastered the Wii and/or GameCube would excell on Wii U.

As for the underpowered statement - depends to what you compare it.

Compared to Wii, it's impressive.

Compared to other systems on the market today - not so much. (speaking purely about the specs and not taking into account any other features, that is)

nameless12345
wii u is capable of more then what you think
#77 Posted by squall_83 (494 posts) -

The main focus here is that CPU speed means nothing. It has been recently revealed that the Wii U's CPU is a multi-core Broadway chip. It's clocked somewhere around 1.something and people are freaking out because the last gen consoles have a higher clock rate. What you need to realize is that CPUs get faster and more efficient when they decrease in die size and power. This chip is probably just a hair slower than XBOX 360's CPU. I know... I said slower. Don't pay any attention to that. The real factor here is the GPU. It's based off modern technology. It has newer shaders and it's built for GPGPU. It WILL be able to achieve better graphics than the current gen can even dream of, eventually. Then next gen XBOX and PS... whatever they want to call it, will likely be a similar setup. Don't expect an enormous leap in their graphics. They will almost definitely be better than Wii U, but not by much. We are approaching a wall in fidelity. We just can't afford to put enough power into these systems without a HUGE overhead.

#78 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I thought legacy programming skills are exactly what would benefit Wii U?

Because it's CPU is based on Wii's (thus GameCube's), the programmers that mastered the Wii and/or GameCube would excell on Wii U.

As for the underpowered statement - depends to what you compare it.

Compared to Wii, it's impressive.

Compared to other systems on the market today - not so much. (speaking purely about the specs and not taking into account any other features, that is)

mariokart64fan

wii u is capable of more then what you think

It is?

It still runs Batman worse than a AMD A8 APU (99$) tho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz-m5pihZOE

#79 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

The main focus here is that CPU speed means nothing. It has been recently revealed that the Wii U's CPU is a multi-core Broadway chip. It's clocked somewhere around 1.something and people are freaking out because the last gen consoles have a higher clock rate. What you need to realize is that CPUs get faster and more efficient when they decrease in die size and power. This chip is probably just a hair slower than XBOX 360's CPU. I know... I said slower. Don't pay any attention to that. The real factor here is the GPU. It's based off modern technology. It has newer shaders and it's built for GPGPU. It WILL be able to achieve better graphics than the current gen can even dream of, eventually. Then next gen XBOX and PS... whatever they want to call it, will likely be a similar setup. Don't expect an enormous leap in their graphics. They will almost definitely be better than Wii U, but not by much. We are approaching a wall in fidelity. We just can't afford to put enough power into these systems without a HUGE overhead.

squall_83

Wii U uses the *same* CPU as Wii and GameCube did, it's just clocked a little higher and has three cores.

Three single-threaded 1.2 Ghz Wii CPU cores are not as good as three two-threaded 3.2 Ghz PPE cores with VMX support in Xbox 360 or a single 3.2 Ghz PPE core with seven SPEs that are usable for graphics in PS3.

The Wii U is better than the competing current-gen systems in some way (better GPU, more RAM) and worse in other (slower CPU, slower RAM, less HDD).

These are cold facts, not something I'd be making up.

#80 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -
[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I thought legacy programming skills are exactly what would benefit Wii U?

Because it's CPU is based on Wii's (thus GameCube's), the programmers that mastered the Wii and/or GameCube would excell on Wii U.

As for the underpowered statement - depends to what you compare it.

Compared to Wii, it's impressive.

Compared to other systems on the market today - not so much. (speaking purely about the specs and not taking into account any other features, that is)

wii u is capable of more then what you think

It is?

It still runs Batman worse than a AMD A8 APU (99$) tho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz-m5pihZOE

A8 APU is linked with 128bit memory enabled PCB and CPU core design better than PowerPC G3 type CPU core.
#81 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

[QUOTE="squall_83"]

The main focus here is that CPU speed means nothing. It has been recently revealed that the Wii U's CPU is a multi-core Broadway chip. It's clocked somewhere around 1.something and people are freaking out because the last gen consoles have a higher clock rate. What you need to realize is that CPUs get faster and more efficient when they decrease in die size and power. This chip is probably just a hair slower than XBOX 360's CPU. I know... I said slower. Don't pay any attention to that. The real factor here is the GPU. It's based off modern technology. It has newer shaders and it's built for GPGPU. It WILL be able to achieve better graphics than the current gen can even dream of, eventually. Then next gen XBOX and PS... whatever they want to call it, will likely be a similar setup. Don't expect an enormous leap in their graphics. They will almost definitely be better than Wii U, but not by much. We are approaching a wall in fidelity. We just can't afford to put enough power into these systems without a HUGE overhead.

nameless12345

Wii U uses the *same* CPU as Wii and GameCube did, it's just clocked a little higher and has three cores.

Three single-threaded 1.2 Ghz Wii CPU cores are not as good as three two-threaded 3.2 Ghz PPE cores with VMX support in Xbox 360 or a single 3.2 Ghz PPE core with seven SPEs that are usable for graphics in PS3.

The Wii U is better than the competing current-gen systems in some way (better GPU, more RAM) and worse in other (slower CPU, slower RAM, less HDD).

These are cold facts, not something I'd be making up.

Nameless, I agree that the CPU ain't the best.

I am no expert here, RonValencia should weigh in, check this out regarding the memory:

Xbox 360:

X360bandwidthdiagram.jpg

Xbox 360 has 22.4GB/s max transfer to the memory. Wii U has 4 512 meg modules, bandwidth each of 12.8GB/s, and another source states that the total bandwidth equals the number of modules multiplied by the module speed, if this is true it means Wii U's max transfer rate is 51.2GB/s.

I think it makes sense the 2012 Wii U would have better potential for maximum memory transfer than a 2005 console, even though Wii U is a value conscious offering. Memory was cheap in 2005 when the 360 released, it's even cheaper now.

Anyway Nameless for the time being this is just my conjecture, I've asked an expert for advice.

Sources:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/wii-u-memory-bandwidth-bogus-claims.452770220/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Technical_specifications

#82 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -
[QUOTE="psymon100"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="squall_83"]

The main focus here is that CPU speed means nothing. It has been recently revealed that the Wii U's CPU is a multi-core Broadway chip. It's clocked somewhere around 1.something and people are freaking out because the last gen consoles have a higher clock rate. What you need to realize is that CPUs get faster and more efficient when they decrease in die size and power. This chip is probably just a hair slower than XBOX 360's CPU. I know... I said slower. Don't pay any attention to that. The real factor here is the GPU. It's based off modern technology. It has newer shaders and it's built for GPGPU. It WILL be able to achieve better graphics than the current gen can even dream of, eventually. Then next gen XBOX and PS... whatever they want to call it, will likely be a similar setup. Don't expect an enormous leap in their graphics. They will almost definitely be better than Wii U, but not by much. We are approaching a wall in fidelity. We just can't afford to put enough power into these systems without a HUGE overhead.

Wii U uses the *same* CPU as Wii and GameCube did, it's just clocked a little higher and has three cores.

Three single-threaded 1.2 Ghz Wii CPU cores are not as good as three two-threaded 3.2 Ghz PPE cores with VMX support in Xbox 360 or a single 3.2 Ghz PPE core with seven SPEs that are usable for graphics in PS3.

The Wii U is better than the competing current-gen systems in some way (better GPU, more RAM) and worse in other (slower CPU, slower RAM, less HDD).

These are cold facts, not something I'd be making up.

Nameless, I agree that the CPU ain't the best.

I am no expert here, RonValencia should weigh in, check this out regarding the memory:

Xbox 360:

X360bandwidthdiagram.jpg

Xbox 360 has 22.4GB/s max transfer to the memory. Wii U has 4 512 meg modules, bandwidth each of 12.8GB/s, and another source states that the total bandwidth equals the number of modules multiplied by the module speed, if this is true it means Wii U's max transfer rate is 51.2GB/s.

I think it makes sense the 2012 Wii U would have better potential for maximum memory transfer than a 2005 console, even though Wii U is a value conscious offering. Memory was cheap in 2005 when the 360 released, it's even cheaper now.

Anyway Nameless for the time being this is just my conjecture, I've asked an expert for advice.

Sources:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/wii-u-memory-bandwidth-bogus-claims.452770220/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Technical_specifications

The four ram chips are 16bits wide, hence 64bit. Wii U's GPU also includes EDRAM memory. The goal is make the console cheap by reducing the trace lines on PCB
#83 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

The four ram chips are 16bits wide, hence 64bit. Wii U's GPU also includes EDRAM memory. The goal is make the console cheap by reducing the trace lines on PCBronvalencia

Yes 360 is on 128 bit wide bus yeah?

Do you have sufficient info to verify if the memory transfer values are correct? If the bits add together for total bandwidth of 64bit, then I suppose the memory transfer values do too?

Or, does the bus bit width have more importance than peak transfer?

Sorry for all the questions Ron, I suspect (and hope) you enjoy answering them.

#84 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]The four ram chips are 16bits wide, hence 64bit. Wii U's GPU also includes EDRAM memory. The goal is make the console cheap by reducing the trace lines on PCBpsymon100

Yes 360 is on 128 bit wide bus yeah?

Do you have sufficient info to verify if the memory transfer values are correct? If the bits add together for total bandwidth of 64bit, then I suppose the memory transfer values do too?

Or, does the bus bit width have more importance than peak transfer?

Sorry for all the questions Ron, I suspect (and hope) you enjoy answering them.

Part number on the memory chips. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

hynix.jpg

If Wii U is using AMD Redwood (Radeon HD 5650) or similar type GPU, then it would some new Level 11.0 hardware texture compression support.

#85 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

Wii U ispart number MT41K256M16HA-125

xbox 360 isK4J52324QC-BC14

I dug a bit, and found someone used this maths for Wii U:

"800Mhz * 4 modules * 16-bits each module * 2 double data rate = 102500 Mb/s or 12800 MB/s"

For 360: plagiarising his method.

700MHz x 4 modules x 32 bits x 2 double data rate = 179200 Mb/s or 22400MB/s

Boom there it is I guess. Wii U has 57% of the memory bandwidth.

#86 Posted by WreckEm711 (6922 posts) -

Wtf language are y'all speaking :( CAN IT DO TEH FOLIAGE OR NOT??

#87 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

Wtf language are y'all speaking :( CAN IT DO TEH FOLIAGE OR NOT??

WreckEm711

Search in youtube for Radeon HD 7550M/7570M. Radeon HD 7550M/7570M has 64bit VRAM with Radeon E6760/Radeon HD 6650M type GPU.

#88 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -
[QUOTE="psymon100"]

Wii U ispart number MT41K256M16HA-125

xbox 360 isK4J52324QC-BC14

I dug a bit, and found someone used this maths for Wii U:

"800Mhz * 4 modules * 16-bits each module * 2 double data rate = 102500 Mb/s or 12800 MB/s"

For 360: plagiarising his method.

700MHz x 4 modules x 32 bits x 2 double data rate = 179200 Mb/s or 22400MB/s

Boom there it is I guess. Wii U has 57% of the memory bandwidth.

Wii U must use it's GPU features and can't rely on brute force performance.
#89 Posted by osirisx3 (2040 posts) -
It is not a power house but i don't think its weaker then 360 like many are saying.
#90 Posted by AznbkdX (3664 posts) -

Wtf language are y'all speaking :( CAN IT DO TEH FOLIAGE OR NOT??

WreckEm711

For the most part it can basing off the info these two fine gents showed us.

The thing is it can't do straight up great performance though. It will have to use everything it has to make for some great stuff. This isn't that bad but as I said before it will need optimization for the most part for many things that will come out later on.

#91 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

Wtf language are y'all speaking :( CAN IT DO TEH FOLIAGE OR NOT??

AznbkdX

For the most part it can basing off the info these two fine gents showed us.

The thing is it can't do straight up great performance though. It will have to use everything it has to make for some great stuff. This isn't that bad but as I said before it will need optimization for the most part for many things that will come out later on.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

Wii U has superior performance per watt characteristics.

#92 Posted by Jaysonguy (38210 posts) -

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

Wtf language are y'all speaking :( CAN IT DO TEH FOLIAGE OR NOT??

ronvalencia

For the most part it can basing off the info these two fine gents showed us.

The thing is it can't do straight up great performance though. It will have to use everything it has to make for some great stuff. This isn't that bad but as I said before it will need optimization for the most part for many things that will come out later on.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

Wii U has superior performance per watt characteristics.

Which means nothing at all

Except for people who care about recycling and saving trees

In other words, no one of importance

#93 Posted by guitarist4292 (503 posts) -

Here's a crazy idea... no one knows exactly what Wii U games will eventually look like, or how drastic the generation jump to the next MS/Sony machines will be... so instead of arguing about pointless things, let's just wait and see and in the meantime enjoy playing video games. You know, have fun with them? Remember when we used to do that with video games?

#94 Posted by Jaysonguy (38210 posts) -

Here's a crazy idea... no one knows exactly what Wii U games will eventually look like, or how drastic the generation jump to the next MS/Sony machines will be... so instead of arguing about pointless things, let's just wait and see and in the meantime enjoy playing video games. You know, have fun with them? Remember when we used to do that with video games?

guitarist4292

To only focus on that instead of the entire scope of the industry is asking people to stick their heads in the sand and ignore most of what gaming has to offer.

No thank you

#95 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

For the most part it can basing off the info these two fine gents showed us.

The thing is it can't do straight up great performance though. It will have to use everything it has to make for some great stuff. This isn't that bad but as I said before it will need optimization for the most part for many things that will come out later on.

Jaysonguy

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

Wii U has superior performance per watt characteristics.

Which means nothing at all

Except for people who care about recycling and saving trees

In other words, no one of importance

With build-in display and low TDP, Wii U has almost crossed over the entry level gaming laptop PC segment.

In terms of unit sales, laptop PCs exceeds desktop PCs. The key attribute for laptop PC's overtaking the desktop PCs are mostly due to mobility/portability characteristics.

When playing games, most gaming laptop PCs runs with wall power.

#96 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

Yeah that's right.

Ron, have you seen how people have been using Wii U in the manner you describe?

play-your-wii-u-anywhere-even-on-a-train

#97 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

^ too bad the screen is not HD, meaning it cannot rightfully replace a TV screen...

#98 Posted by psymon100 (6835 posts) -

That's OK. It's not supposed to replace the TV, but supplement it. If the TV is in use or something, the GamePad screen is an improvement compared to every console before Wii U.

#99 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

Yeah that's right.

Ron, have you seen how people have been using Wii U in the manner you describe?

play-your-wii-u-anywhere-even-on-a-train

psymon100

As with laptops, it's an option. Most laptops includes external display connections.

From http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/40389/so-how-portable-is-the-wii-u-lets-ask-this-guy-who-took-it-onto-a-bullet-train

Rocket News 24 packed up a Wii U and took it onto a bullet train. Many Japanese high-speed rail cars have power outlets for laptops and other personal devices. So what happens if you plug a Wii U into those outlets?

It works absolutely flawlessly. They simply unfolded the small tray much like those you find on the back of airline seats, propped the Wii U up in its stand, plugged it in, and fired it up.

Due to the Wii U's small size, approximate six inches tall and ten inches long, there was even room for food:

wii-shinkanen-title.jpg

So, the moral of the story is, anywhere there's an outlet, there's a way to play the Wii U.

Nintendo could have designed a smaller Wii U with laptop blu-ray drives. Like to see an ultra slim Wii U.

#100 Posted by ronvalencia (15782 posts) -

^ too bad the screen is not HD, meaning it cannot rightfully replace a TV screen...

nameless12345

Do you prefer a higher priced console?