The Wii U is not underpowered (READ)

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#1 Posted by DaRockWilder (5451 posts) -

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

#2 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

I thought legacy programming skills are exactly what would benefit Wii U?

Because it's CPU is based on Wii's (thus GameCube's), the programmers that mastered the Wii and/or GameCube would excell on Wii U.

As for the underpowered statement - depends to what you compare it.

Compared to Wii, it's impressive.

Compared to other systems on the market today - not so much. (speaking purely about the specs and not taking into account any other features, that is)

#3 Posted by Bigboi500 (30426 posts) -

Anyone with half a brain knows the Wii U is going to put out some really amazing looking games down the road... And who gives a f*ck how it compares to this gen's other systems or the next?

#4 Posted by psymon100 (6138 posts) -

Wii U uses Green Hills MULTI Integrated Development Environment.

Very modern.

#5 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -
The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.
#6 Posted by zyphyr2k12 (272 posts) -

I don't think being underpowered really matters. It didn't stop the Wii. What matters is how well Nintendo markets/promotes the console and the games. Just look at the Vita (compared to the 3DS), it is very powerful, but it's more expensive and it has less games than the 3DS. So the 3DS is winning. The other guys can come out with crazy expensive and powerful machines and the Wii U will still beat them as long as it has games.

#7 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -

I don't think being underpowered really matters. It didn't stop the Wii. What matters is how well Nintendo markets/promotes the console and the games. Just look at the Vita (compared to the 3DS), it is very powerful, but it's more expensive and it has less games than the 3DS. So the 3DS is winning. The other guys can come out with crazy expensive and powerful machines and the Wii U will still beat them as long as it has games.

zyphyr2k12
The portable market is different though. Home consoles have almost always been about cutting edge entertainment in the eyes of consumer.
#8 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren

Ok then explain to me how they managed to get that Zelda & Japanese garden tech demo's they showed at E3 11 to look so frigging good. Because they definitely looked like an upgrade to me

#9 Posted by bulby_g (1264 posts) -

I'm pretty sure the Wii U will be underpowered compared to the PS4/720. I don't much care though as it should be capable of reasonable visuals and I know it will have some amazing must have games. If I want raw power I'll play on my PC anyway. :P

I'm looking forward to getting home tonight and setting up my Wii U that I've just collected!!

#10 Posted by Jaysonguy (37829 posts) -

The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

#11 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Vickman178

Ok then explain to me how they managed to get that Zelda & Japanese garden tech demo's they showed at E3 11 to look so frigging good. Because they definitely looked like an upgrade to me

They looked good to me as well, and I was curious as to why no launch games exhibited such traits. It's possible the hardware was revised after the 3ds struggled to sell at $250--a price point I always thought of being a means of increasing the perceived cost of a Nintendo product. If you recall, there were zero games for the GameCube that measured up to the first Zelda demo they showed.
#12 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

[QUOTE="Vickman178"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren

Ok then explain to me how they managed to get that Zelda & Japanese garden tech demo's they showed at E3 11 to look so frigging good. Because they definitely looked like an upgrade to me

They looked good to me as well, and I was curious as to why no launch games exhibited such traits. It's possible the hardware was revised after the 3ds struggled to sell at $250--a price point I always thought of being a means of increasing the perceived cost of a Nintendo product. If you recall, there were zero games for the GameCube that measured up to the first Zelda demo they showed.

I don't think they would downgrade the system, not while developers were probably already working on games for it during that time, that would probably have messed them up. Were just going to have to wait until we see a game thats been fully built from the ground for the system because all we got now is ports. Maybe Bayonetta 2 but that was supposedly in development for 360 & PS3 while it was cancelled so they may stlll be using 360 assets when they restart the project.

Or we wait for Retro or Nintendo to showcase more Zelda or Metroid which could showcase what the system can do.

In the end though it really doesn't matter all too much. Nintendo said they would go after the hardcore by offering HD and by making sure the system gets lots of games the hardcore would want to play and that pretty much what they are doing.They never said the console was going to be a powerhouse. All they said was it was going to be HD.

#13 Posted by campzor (34932 posts) -
when there is a game on the wii u which looks like it cant be done on the hd twins...then ill believe you
#14 Posted by blueydwlf (385 posts) -

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

"Okay, let me expand on what Mr. Martin is saying,defining all the terms you might not know.

The cores on the Wii U are much more powerful than it may appear. It's an out-of-order design - meaning the processor can rearrange the order it runs things in order to get much better performance, as long as it still gets the same results. Every PC CPU since the Pentium Pro and the K5 have done this, except the ultra-weak Atoms. The Xenon in the 360 and the Cell in the PS3 are also in-order designs, so the cores spend a lot of time idling because they can't shuffle instructions around so they can utilize their processing elements effectively.

The Xenon/Cell (they're actually a very closely related design - the Xenon is a triple-core variant the main CPU of the Cell) try to compensate for it by using SMT, or Simultaneous Multithreading. Essentially, while a single program thread cannot take advantage of lulls in activity for one processing element of the core, another thread can. Intel chips call this "Hyperthreading". You rarely get twice the actual performance of a non-SMT core - you usually only get a 20%-40% improvement or so, unless you're a very odd design like the recent UltraSPARCs.

The clock speed on the Wii U is 1.24GHz. That's rather slow, relatively speaking, but you can't directly compare clock speed unless it's between two processors of the same architecture. So you can say a 4.0GHz Core 2 Quad is twice as fast as a 2.0GHz Core 2 Quad, but you can't say a 4.0GHz Fusion is twice as fast as a 2.0GHz K10. That's because, as Mr. Martin says, there's a lot that can affect IPC (Instructions Per Clock - depending on dozens of other factors, your processor may be able to run multiple instructions on each clock cycle, and may be forced to spend many cycles idling, doing nothing). And that's assuming the instructions are equal - some processor architectures like to make instructions that do a whole lot at once (for example, x86), while others like to keep them small and simple, hopefully allowing it to run them faster (ARM, for instance).

The comparison he makes is P4 versus Core. The Pentium 4 was a mixed bag - it had very high clocks, but several architectural decisions made to reach those clocks caused it to be very inefficient. It was joked, at the time, that the Pentium 4 was the fastest CPU for programs that fit entirely in cache, because every time the CPU had to go out to system memory to grab some data, the processor basically froze. And branch misprediction caused terrible stalls. To make things worse, heat and power consumption scale quadratically with clock speed - roughly speaking, if you double the clock speed, you *quadruple* the heat and power draw, not double it. It gets so bad you really can't get a processor too far beyond 4GHz without heat issues.

Intel knew this, sort of. They had kept the earlier Pentium III design around in the Pentium M, using it mainly in laptops. But eventually they figured out that it's better to make an efficient processor, rather than an inefficient one that you can throw more power at. The Core, Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 chips are all derived from the Pentium M. They took an efficient design, and brought it fully up to modern standards. And they have kept improving it - the cores on a Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge processor are *extremely* powerful and extremely efficient. You can't find better cores in an x86 chip - the only ones that can beat it are in massive server-only chips like the POWER or SPARC64.

The analogy he's making is comparing the Xenon and Cell to the Pentium 4, and the Wii U processor to the first-gen Core. It makes sense - Microsoft/Sony made many compromises in the design to get impressive statistics, like high clock speed or core count. Like, for instance, making them strictly in-order processors. If Nintendo went with a more efficient design, I would be surprised if they *couldn't* outperform the competition clock-for-clock. Keeping the clock speed low was just a way to keep the small form factor and the low noise/low power design.

There is, however, another thing that makes it a "weaker" processor: the relatively weak SIMD units (Single Instruction Multiple Data). It's pretty much on par with the Wii in this. The Xenon/Cell, however, have massive SIMD capabilities. Particularly the Cell - I often call it "one core with eight SIMD units attached to it", to describe how it really isn't an 8-core design. But even the Xenon has some extremely powerful SIMD abilities. The PC also uses various SIMD elements. It started with MMX, then 3DNow!, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4a, AVX, AVX2, and so on.

SIMD is good for doing the same thing to a lot of data. Most graphics cards use some sort of SIMD or MIMD (Multiple Instruction Multiple Data). There's a lot of use for it in some games - it's good for big open-world stuff, processing for dozens or hundreds of NPCs. It's great for big, showy physics, particularly simple particle effects with huge numbers of particles. It's good for procedurally generating textures.

But when you think of Nintendo games, you don't really think of anything like that. The only one of their games that would really benefit from SIMD would be Pikmin, and even then, not so much. So that may be why Nintendo didn't put powerful SIMD capabilities on the Wii U - they didn't need it themselves. But there's perhaps another reason.

As I mentioned earlier, most graphics processors are made of hundreds or even thousands of SIMD cores. And with GPGPU software, you can run any code you want on the graphic cores, not just shaders or other graphics-only stuff. On the PC, Nvidia uses it to run PhysX, and it's also the power behind most modern supercomputers. It could very well be that Nintendo expects most developers to put the load that would have been on the SIMD units on the GPU instead, as they have a much, much more powerful GPU than the PS3 or 360 (go look at a die photo of the Wii U processor - the graphics section looks to be about four times the size of the CPU section, which makes it roughly four times as powerful if it's on the same process node).

I suspect that's part of the reason why the ports from other consoles seem bad, but the native games like Zombi U seem much better. GPGPU was in its infancy when the last console generation launched, so you can't really do it on the 360 or PS3. Since these are very early, probably very rushed ports, they didn't go and translate much of the SIMD code into GPGPU code.

One last thing he mentions is an ARM "secure processor". On the Wii, there's an additional, ARM-based processor core (like the one probably in your phone), not on the CPU, but on the motherboard chipset. It was used mainly for downloading data and synchronizing stuff while the system was nominally "off". It's actually a rather clever idea, so I'm not surprised Nintendo did it again. One report I saw claims the ARM core is used to run the entire OS and system software, leaving the CPU just for the game to use, but that doesn't seem too likely in my opinion, especially since certain other claims in the article have been completely debunked.

So that's essentially what Mr. Martin has said, with a bit of my own commentary and analysis. If you'll permit me a bit more, I'll describe the possible long-term effects.

If all this information is true, the Wii U will be better suited than the PS3/360 to do certain types of games. This sort of processor would be much better at "intelligent" AI - more strategic, more thoughtful, less zombie-like. It would be worse-suited to things that involve massive numbers of simple enemies, and it would be worse-suited for destructible environments.

It's likely that we will see the quality of ports improve, particularly if engines get ported to it better (IIRC, Epic has not itself ported UnrealEngine to the Wii U - any UE3 games on the Wii U were ports by the game developer, which is a frightening prospect).

Given the GPU on it, we're also likely to see better-looking games on the Wii U than on the 360/PS3. At least in terms of more polygons, higher texture resolution, more particles, and so on. It depends on the developer as to whether they make it actually look *good*.

Games that absolutely depend on heavy CPU power might go unported. But once the new Microsoft/Sony consoles hit, all bets are off."

Thanks tomakerofthegameson Kotaku.

A mouthful I know lol but informative.

#15 Posted by ronvalencia (15272 posts) -

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

DaRockWilder

The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren

For 35 watt GPU that uses Radeon HD 5650M level GPU, it's on par with 2011 mobile PC GPUs. The main concern would be 64bit wide VRAM and the CPU.

#16 Posted by Jaysonguy (37829 posts) -

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

blueydwlf

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

#17 Posted by blueydwlf (385 posts) -

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

Jaysonguy

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

#18 Posted by Sepewrath (28770 posts) -
The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren
A typical generational leap? The Wii U compared to its last gen is a massive leap, well beyond the scope of usual generational leap. What MS and Sony did with the PS3 and 360 is far from typical. When it comes to the system being underpowered, compared to what? What the 360 and PS3 do is more than enough for gaming currently. We don't know if MS and Sony will try another huge jump, because if they do and the systems cost $700, it will go the way of the Jaguar and Neo Geo where all that power will go to waste.
#19 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Sepewrath
A typical generational leap? The Wii U compared to its last gen is a massive leap, well beyond the scope of usual generational leap. What MS and Sony did with the PS3 and 360 is far from typical. When it comes to the system being underpowered, compared to what? What the 360 and PS3 do is more than enough for gaming currently. We don't know if MS and Sony will try another huge jump, because if they do and the systems cost $700, it will go the way of the Jaguar and Neo Geo where all that power will go to waste.

The 360 and ps3 is not more than enough--neither even display proper hd resolutions most of the time. The industry is huge, and people are willing to throw money into it, as evident by how popular dlc and limited editions have become. Sony and Microsoft will both offer a huge visual jump. It is the only route they can go. Current consoles are perfectly capable of supplying all the outside gaming media functions. The key selling point will be visuals, next gen. One could say that they might copy Nintendo, and they may in some form, but copying Nintendo would ultimately limit the consoles power because of tablet cost--and this would in turn make Nintendos massive head start all the more beneficial as the visual discrepancies would not be as big. A key factor here that rarely gets mentioned here is dlc. Ms and Sony fully endorse this. This is something that I could see 3rd parties abandoning the wiiu for.
#20 Posted by AznbkdX (3274 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

blueydwlf

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

It doesn't take rocket science or a long ass post to see that the WiiU is able to provide more capability then current gen consoles.

#21 Posted by bonesawisready5 (4714 posts) -
The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Heirren
Underpowered compared to what? PCs? Sure Next-gen consoles that haven't been revealed and just might be marginally more powerful or heck, even on par with the Wii U but the entire gaming community assumes they'll be beasts? No. I bet if the PS4 had 2GB RAM with 1GB for the OS, a Quad-Core CPU around 1.5Ghz and a better, newer 600Mhz GPU people wouldn't even complain about it. That wouldn't be bad at all, but I'm just saying.
#22 Posted by suade907 (360 posts) -

I would argue that the Wii U playing Black ops on 2 screens for 2 players is pretty impressive. But I notice a major framerate drop on my tv when I do. If I had to guess the wii U is on par and then some vs. xbox and ps3. But we'll probably not see any games surpassing the graphics of the ps3 or xbox due to the fact that most devs will make games tailored for the gamepad and a screen that small makes most games look incredible.

After using the Wii U now I would have to think with the cost of next gen systems development rising so much the Wii U may end up being a very attractive development alternative if they can sell enough.

#23 Posted by AznbkdX (3274 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Sepewrath
A typical generational leap? The Wii U compared to its last gen is a massive leap, well beyond the scope of usual generational leap. What MS and Sony did with the PS3 and 360 is far from typical. When it comes to the system being underpowered, compared to what? What the 360 and PS3 do is more than enough for gaming currently. We don't know if MS and Sony will try another huge jump, because if they do and the systems cost $700, it will go the way of the Jaguar and Neo Geo where all that power will go to waste.

I can agree but at the same time disagree.

The other companies can get products sold at a loss with quite a bit better specs being around 400-500 bucks easy considering the bulk discounts and dealings with AMD and Nvidia, and the fact that they don't need much to surpass the WiiU (the money went into to the gamepad after all).

Even if there may be wasted power (for PCs it is on the CPU end for sure imo, too much emphasis on the GPU), thats just the way it has been in the 21st century. Xbox and PS3 threw the gauntlet down for consoles, and thats the way it is. Outside of the gaming market, everyone else followed suit as well such as the new iPad and smartphones. You have to keep up with the times to stay relevant, and having a huge leap over Wii just isn't enough. At least thats how it is for more savvy gamers, the rest of the known world still likes fun more than tech. Still fun and better tech likes to comingle at times.

We will see in the coming years. I'm still going to buy it regardless, and I hope I can put my foot in my mouth but there is a great chance it can't keep up without serious optimization.

#24 Posted by bonesawisready5 (4714 posts) -

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

Jaysonguy

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

You're sound delusional if you think you've got hard specs on un-revealed next-gen consoles. Like I've said many times before, other next-gen consoles could be just as powerful as Wii U or marginally better. No one knows yet. It may be a likely scenario but it isn't set in stone. Personally I'd hope all other next-gen consoles launch for $299 too.
#25 Posted by blueydwlf (385 posts) -

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

AznbkdX

The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

It doesn't take rocket science or a long ass post to see that the WiiU is able to provide more capability then current gen consoles.

I'm aware of that. Sadly a lot of people still believe somehow that the WiiU is only on par with or even slightly weaker than the HD twins. I also said I knew the post was long, but I thought there were some here who might have found it as interesting a read as I did. Thought that was the purpose of these forums?
#26 Posted by AznbkdX (3274 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.bonesawisready5
Underpowered compared to what? PCs? Sure Next-gen consoles that haven't been revealed and just might be marginally more powerful or heck, even on par with the Wii U but the entire gaming community assumes they'll be beasts? No. I bet if the PS4 had 2GB RAM with 1GB for the OS, a Quad-Core CPU around 1.5Ghz and a better, newer 600Mhz GPU people wouldn't even complain about it. That wouldn't be bad at all, but I'm just saying.

Xbox has been doing it every gen, making a beast console for its time. They have the money to do it as well this gen, but I can agree they will be more lax considering that less enthusiastic gamers don't need large amounts of power and they might have learned a thing or two from the Wii.

Still, the issue is that the WiiU is largely underdeveloped. Will be lots of fun for sure, but unequivocally underdeveloped compared to what will come. Thats just the way its been going. Tech has been getting better, and even if it hasn't been used to its fullest on games, it will certainly beat out the WiiU.

#27 Posted by AznbkdX (3274 posts) -

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"] The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

blueydwlf

It doesn't take rocket science or a long ass post to see that the WiiU is able to provide more capability then current gen consoles.

I'm aware of that. Sadly a lot of people still believe somehow that the WiiU is only on par with or even slightly weaker than the HD twins. I also said I knew the post was long, but I thought there were some here who might have found it as interesting a read as I did. Thought that was the purpose of these forums?

Oh I don't mind your quote at all. Its good to have more info on the subject at hand. Just saying its been fairly well known so there doesn't need to be much else in explanations.

#28 Posted by Bigboi500 (30426 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Jaysonguy

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

#29 Posted by ronvalencia (15272 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.bonesawisready5
Underpowered compared to what? PCs? Sure Next-gen consoles that haven't been revealed and just might be marginally more powerful or heck, even on par with the Wii U but the entire gaming community assumes they'll be beasts? No. I bet if the PS4 had 2GB RAM with 1GB for the OS, a Quad-Core CPU around 1.5Ghz and a better, newer 600Mhz GPU people wouldn't even complain about it. That wouldn't be bad at all, but I'm just saying.

AMD A10-5700 has 3.4GHz with 4.0Ghz Turbo(1) clock speeds. The entire APU has 64 watts TDP i.e. already lower than 1st gen IBM CELL.

Sony's X86 shift is the same reason why Apple shifted towards X86 and dumped PowerPC.

PowerPC ISA doesn't have advantage of 3 operands FMA over the X86 i.e. AMD supports four operands FMA. By the time PS4 is released, AMD Piledriver would have replaced by AMD Steamroller i.e. PileDriver CPU IP would cheaper by then. 1. http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/a-series/Pages/a-series-model-number-comparison.aspx

AMD Radeon HD 7970M's 100 watts already matched first gen NVIDIA RSX's TDP.

HD 7970M/7850's die size already smaller than 1st gen NVIDIA RSX.

---

1st gen NVIDIA RSX = 258 mm^2

1st gen IBM CELL = 230 mm^2

Total die size: 488 mm^2

---

Option 1

AMD Radeon HD 7850 (16 CU GpGPU) = 212 mm^2

AMD Trinity (6 CU IGP) = 246 mm^2

Total die size: 458 mm^2. It's already smaller than 1st gen PS3.

---

Option 2

Semi-custom AMD Trinity (quad core PileDriver) with Radeon HD 7850 = ~335 mm^2. It's already smaller than 1st gen PS3.

Quad core PileDriver = ~50 watts (with 4th core for yield issues).

Radeon HD 7850 = 130 watts (16 CUs operational, with 4 CUs disabled for yeild issues).

Total: 180 watts.

---

Based on 1st gen PS3, power consumption can be around 209 watts (e.g. FF13) i.e. PS3 used 380 watt power supply. Option 2 is possible for PS4.

For 1:1 part replacement, Sony can build a powerful PS4 console.

By the time of 2014, AMD PileDriver (CPU) and 1st gen AMD GCN (GPU) would be replaced by newer AMD Steamroller (CPU) and 2nd generation AMD GCN (GPU) and 2012 AMD IP would be cheaper.

Wii U targets a different TDP hence the current selection. Unlike X86 world, IBM didn't automatically add 128bit VMX as standard. With AMD, you get AMD's FMA4/SSE128/AVX256 SIMDs regardless of the SKU.

AMD doesn't play with different ISAs with different price points game. With AMD64/X86-64 ISA, SSE1/SSE2 SIMD instruction set is a mandatory feature.

#30 Posted by Jaysonguy (37829 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.Bigboi500

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

#31 Posted by Bigboi500 (30426 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

Jaysonguy

It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

At this point we don't know if it will like Xbox and Gamecube>PS2, or PS3 and 360>Wii. We'll know for sure once the other systems come out, but even if it's the latter I'd rather have the Wii U that will have Nintendo franchises and scaled down multiplats vs superior multiplats with no Nintendo franchises.

#32 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

Jaysonguy

It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

Ya but this time around the system is HD, so the games will still look a lot better even if it does end up being outperformed from the competitions machines.

Also I would just like to share this comment with everybody here...So on the Sega forums theres a guy from SUMO the development team that made Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed and he's currently taking questions from fans about the game but somebody also asked him what he thought about the Wii U and he responded. This is actually from TODAY so its not outdated or anything.

"I'm quite excited by it! The GamePad opens new doors for new experiences and since we know every Wii U owner will have one, it means it will likely see support for many cool new game features. Spec wise it's got plenty of power - easily as quick as any of the other consoles out there - plus with more memory available that can be used in many ways. Bigger levels, more animation, nicer textures and more."


Again this comment came in today, take from it what you will but it sounds pretty positive to me. If you want to see it for yourself here's a link

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?409253-Semi-official-fire-questions-at-SUMO-and-get-vague-responses-thread/page366

scroll down near the bottom his username is SOL.



#33 Posted by Jaysonguy (37829 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

Vickman178

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

Ya but this time around the system is HD, so the games will still look a lot better even if it does end up being outperformed from the competitions machines.

Also I would just like to share this comment with everybody here...So on the Sega forums theres a guy from SUMO the development team that made Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed and he's currently taking questions from fans about the game but somebody also asked him what he thought about the Wii U and he responded. This is actually from TODAY so its not outdated or anything.

"I'm quite excited by it! The GamePad opens new doors for new experiences and since we know every Wii U owner will have one, it means it will likely see support for many cool new game features. Spec wise it's got plenty of power - easily as quick as any of the other consoles out there - plus with more memory available that can be used in many ways. Bigger levels, more animation, nicer textures and more."


Again this comment came in today, take from it what you will but it sounds pretty positive to me. If you want to see it for yourself here's a link

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?409253-Semi-official-fire-questions-at-SUMO-and-get-vague-responses-thread/page366

scroll down near the bottom his username is SOL.



That's from the team that still hasn't updated the game so parts of it are still broken.

Not exactly a glowing recommendation

#34 Posted by ronvalencia (15272 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Exactly, the Wii U will be a weak machine once the other consoles are out, it wont be able to run the newest engines and wont have the AI and visuals compared to it's competition.

The Wii U has already been taken apart and all of it's specs are known, it's not great anywhere in the power department even today, and that's fine.

The Wii U will be a first party machine and special third party games that are designed for the Wii U console. Anyone who went into this thinking differently was mistaken.

Jaysonguy

It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

It's not like Radeon 7500 (e.g. Wii) vs Radeon X1950 (e.g. Xbox 360) scenario i.e. it's more like Radeon HD 7970M/78x0 to Radeon HD 7550M.
#35 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

[QUOTE="Vickman178"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

Jaysonguy

Ya but this time around the system is HD, so the games will still look a lot better even if it does end up being outperformed from the competitions machines.

Also I would just like to share this comment with everybody here...So on the Sega forums theres a guy from SUMO the development team that made Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed and he's currently taking questions from fans about the game but somebody also asked him what he thought about the Wii U and he responded. This is actually from TODAY so its not outdated or anything.

"I'm quite excited by it! The GamePad opens new doors for new experiences and since we know every Wii U owner will have one, it means it will likely see support for many cool new game features. Spec wise it's got plenty of power - easily as quick as any of the other consoles out there - plus with more memory available that can be used in many ways. Bigger levels, more animation, nicer textures and more."


Again this comment came in today, take from it what you will but it sounds pretty positive to me. If you want to see it for yourself here's a link

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?409253-Semi-official-fire-questions-at-SUMO-and-get-vague-responses-thread/page366

scroll down near the bottom his username is SOL.



That's from the team that still hasn't updated the game so parts of it are still broken.

Not exactly a glowing recommendation

The patch has already been sent to Nintendo they just haven't put it up yet :\

Europe got the patch but we didn't. Lazy a** Nintendo of America.

#36 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"]The wiiu is underpowered. People just need to accept this. I do think the games will look far better than anything were seeing now, but in comparison to what a typical generational leap is--one that ms/Sony will offer--the wiiu is indeed underpowered.bonesawisready5
Underpowered compared to what? PCs? Sure Next-gen consoles that haven't been revealed and just might be marginally more powerful or heck, even on par with the Wii U but the entire gaming community assumes they'll be beasts? No. I bet if the PS4 had 2GB RAM with 1GB for the OS, a Quad-Core CPU around 1.5Ghz and a better, newer 600Mhz GPU people wouldn't even complain about it. That wouldn't be bad at all, but I'm just saying.

Microsoft and Sony do not have Nintendos first party. They rely heavily on 3rd party support. What 3rd parties need is what these companies go after.
#37 Posted by mrbig1225 (16 posts) -

Great point... this is what people donot realize.

#38 Posted by mrbig1225 (16 posts) -

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

DaRockWilder

Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

#39 Posted by Jaysonguy (37829 posts) -

[QUOTE="DaRockWilder"]

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

mrbig1225

Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

#40 Posted by zyphyr2k12 (272 posts) -
[QUOTE="zyphyr2k12"]

I don't think being underpowered really matters. It didn't stop the Wii. What matters is how well Nintendo markets/promotes the console and the games. Just look at the Vita (compared to the 3DS), it is very powerful, but it's more expensive and it has less games than the 3DS. So the 3DS is winning. The other guys can come out with crazy expensive and powerful machines and the Wii U will still beat them as long as it has games.

Heirren
The portable market is different though. Home consoles have almost always been about cutting edge entertainment in the eyes of consumer.

The Wii outsold the competition because of its concept. The PS2 outsold the Xbox because of its games. The Wii U has a unique concept and if it can get the games to go with it will have a good chance to do the same.
#41 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

Gonna share a post I read in the comments from another site that I found interesting.

blueydwlf

Seriously stop, you're sounding delusional

Do you even *($#*($#@ understand what you're copy and pasting?

He says that the Wii U can be on par or better with hardware six *($#*(#@$ years old.

He says that once the new consoles from it's competitors are out "all bets are off"

The Wii U does not have the power to compete with the other systems once they're released.

All that news is fine, no one should go into their Wii U purchase thinking that it will give the best experience with multiplats. It's going to be a first party system with special third party games here and there that's it.

It's ok

The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

That wall of text you pasted is nice and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that many developers are already having problems developing for the system because of the slow CPU.

And if the devs who make the most technically advanced games in the industry (i.e. GSC aka the Metro series devs) say that it's a "horrible, slow CPU", this does say something.

But of course, I'm not saying it won't be possible to squeeze impressive things out of the machine.

For example a next-gen Rogue Squadron game would look glorious on the Wii U.

The next Mario, Zelda, Metroid and F-Zero (here's hope they'll make it) would also look fantastic, given Nintendo's expertize with Wii/GC hardware and a big graphical boost Wii U provides compared to Wii.

But we're not talking exclusives that make optimal use of the hardware here.

We're talking multiplats and the 3rd parties likely won't be willing to bother much with the system if they won't have a big audience for their games on it.

It's the duty of the console makers to make their consoles easy to develop for and capable, if they want the 3rd party support.

Else, they can just say "buy our system for our exclusives only!".

And I think that's not the motto with the Wii U...

#42 Posted by Bigboi500 (30426 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]It will be able to run next gen console multiplats due to the Unreal 4 engine being very adaptable, but they will be scaled down a bit.

ronvalencia

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

It's not like Radeon 7500 (e.g. Wii) vs Radeon X1950 (e.g. Xbox 360) scenario i.e. it's more like Radeon HD 7970M/78x0 to Radeon HD 7550M.

So what does that mean in laymans terms in regards to system graphical differences?

#43 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

Bigboi500

It's not like Radeon 7500 (e.g. Wii) vs Radeon X1950 (e.g. Xbox 360) scenario i.e. it's more like Radeon HD 7970M/78x0 to Radeon HD 7550M.

So what does that mean in laymans terms in regards to system graphical differences?

It means that UE4 would run on Wii U but wouldn't look terribly impressive...

#44 Posted by ronvalencia (15272 posts) -

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Scaled down just like the Wii versions of multiplats were scaled down.

That is not a good thing.

Bigboi500

It's not like Radeon 7500 (e.g. Wii) vs Radeon X1950 (e.g. Xbox 360) scenario i.e. it's more like Radeon HD 7970M/78x0 to Radeon HD 7550M.

So what does that mean in laymans terms in regards to system graphical differences?

Run the same 3D engine with less details. Similar case why Apple iPad 2 can run UE3 with it's Directx9c feature level GPU while the Wii misses out.

Wii U's case vs next gen PS4/Xbox 720 would be similar to my laptop PC's vs desktop PC's situation. I can run all DX11 games on my laptop with less details.

#45 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

[QUOTE="blueydwlf"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"] The post was more to demonstrate to the lower clock speed = weaker CPU Nintendoomed crowd, that they don't understand the modern architecture of the WiiU. Despite what anyone says the system is more powerful than PS360. Fact! Nowhere in my post did I mention that the System would out perform Sony's or MS' next offerings, nor did the individual whose post I shared.

nameless12345

That wall of text you pasted is nice and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that many developers are already having problems developing for the system because of the slow CPU.

Who are these "many" developers you speak of?

The only developers that said the CPU was slow was the Metro dev and the Tekken dev. Other then that most developers have had nothing but positive things to say for the systems capabilities. Your only looking at two negatives against a lot more positive comments.

EDIT: Here's another positive quote for everybody from Michel Ancel.

"What surprises me with Wii U is that we dont have many technical problems. Its really running very well, in fact.Were not obliged to constantly optimize things. Even on the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions [of Origins], we had some fill-rate issues and things like that.So its partly us we improved the engine but I think the console is quite powerful. Surprisingly powerful. And there a lot of memory.You can really have huge textures, and its crazy because sometimes the graphic artist we built our textures in very high-dentition. They could be used in a movie.Then we compress them, but sometimes they forget to do the compression and it still works! [Laughs] So yeah, its quite powerful. Its hard sometimes when youre one of the first developers because its up to you to come up with solutions to certain problems. Butthe core elements of the console are surprisingly powerful." -Michel Ancel, Designer of Rayman Legends"


Michel Ancel Designer of Rayman Legends

Rayman Legends runs in native 1080p at 60fps by the way. Its not underpowered compared to PS360, sure it might not be as well off when the next Xbox and PS come out but its still a capable system that will be just fine. Nintendo said they would go after the hardcore by making a HD system and getting the games people want to play and thats exactly what they're doing.

#46 Posted by ronvalencia (15272 posts) -

I would argue that the Wii U playing Black ops on 2 screens for 2 players is pretty impressive. But I notice a major framerate drop on my tv when I do. If I had to guess the wii U is on par and then some vs. xbox and ps3. But we'll probably not see any games surpassing the graphics of the ps3 or xbox due to the fact that most devs will make games tailored for the gamepad and a screen that small makes most games look incredible.

After using the Wii U now I would have to think with the cost of next gen systems development rising so much the Wii U may end up being a very attractive development alternative if they can sell enough.

suade907

Max Payne 3 on Radeon HD 7450M (160 stream processors, 64bit VRAM DDR3 900Mhz) at high details (except shadows),1280x720p and 30-to-32 fps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bzWTZvbEJA

APIs can play role with fps i.e. DX11 is faster than DX10 for Max Payne 3 and 7450M. Wii U's middleware may not be mature enough.

#47 Posted by asl2006 (188 posts) -

I'm happy with a Wii U that is graphically comparable to the current generation consoles. Zelda in HD, need I say more.

#48 Posted by Heirren (18141 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="zyphyr2k12"]

I don't think being underpowered really matters. It didn't stop the Wii. What matters is how well Nintendo markets/promotes the console and the games. Just look at the Vita (compared to the 3DS), it is very powerful, but it's more expensive and it has less games than the 3DS. So the 3DS is winning. The other guys can come out with crazy expensive and powerful machines and the Wii U will still beat them as long as it has games.

zyphyr2k12
The portable market is different though. Home consoles have almost always been about cutting edge entertainment in the eyes of consumer.

The Wii outsold the competition because of its concept. The PS2 outsold the Xbox because of its games. The Wii U has a unique concept and if it can get the games to go with it will have a good chance to do the same.

In ways the wii did just that, but more specifically it grabbed new markets that weren't even people that traditionally played videogames. These demographics are unproven--it is questionable whether or not they will return for wiiu, and considering Nintndo has acknowledged this problem with the wii--with publicly stating they are going to reach for the core(returning) gamer market, it seems Nintendo doesn't think all these people will return either. Yes the wii massively outsold the other two, but when talking about this one has to also look at overall software sales and where the majority of 3rd parties spend thier money--this is the Xbox and Playstation. I'd be willing to bet that the Xbox/ps3 gamer has a larger library of games than a wii owner. This speaks volumes to 3rd parties. The ps2 was a massive success mostly because of the psx hype. Yes it had more games than the Xbox, but when you look at what the Xbox did to the industry, it had a far more profound effect than the ps2. A very large reason gamers ditched Sony, after ps2, was because of the way Microsoft treated the original Xbox--in way Microsoft actually won the ps2/Xbox war because of this. People are kidding themselves if they think the wiiu is powerful enough to really give that next gen feeling the other consoles will. I bought a wiiu, I'm happy with it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it is a little unfortunate that Nintendo didn't put a little more power under the hood--especially considering the 5+ year life cycle of the product. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone that is a big fan of Nintendo, generally cares less about visuals(vs gameplay), and will only buy the next gen Xbox or Playstation if I'm given an enormous reason to do so. I bought the wiiu because I know Nintendo will provide good games, and Im simply too old to back Sony and ms stance on dlc.
#49 Posted by mrbig1225 (16 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"]

[QUOTE="DaRockWilder"]

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

Jaysonguy

Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

You are the exact definition of a sheep, how do you know that wii u can't compete with 6-7 year old hardware? Wait are you basing that on 1st gen titles and ports? Yes you are lol, its pretty clear and evident that you don't have a clue about how developers make software for platforms. The wii u has already proven its next gen. Please visit this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMoZy6OMm0. Based on your explanation the 360 isn't much of an upgrade over the original xbox. Guess what it took 7 years to get games looking like they do on 360 and ps3 and wii u is doing it day one! that proves its next gen stop being a noob. Also your argument about the next gen is wrong.... we are at the point of diminishing returns don't get your hopes up.
#50 Posted by mrbig1225 (16 posts) -

[QUOTE="mrbig1225"]

[QUOTE="DaRockWilder"]

To all the ignorant game reviewers and hopefully some developers saying that the Wii U's CPU is low, please get on with the program because your current console programming methods won't apply to the Wii U or ANY upcoming console.

Everyone I invite you to read this and see what's happening with the Wii U and why current games have had some issues running on it.

Taken from www.lensoftruth.com

One thing to mention here is while most people on the Internet,including the media, continue bashing the Wii Us CPU performance and graphics thus far fail to realizeone major fact.Although, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 are seven year old consoles, history and experience shows that a console is at its strongest around its demise. Games like Halo 4, Uncharted 3 and Assassins Creed III, could have never been conceived of at launch.

With that being said, the Wii U actually handling these games this early in its life is rather impressive, considering developers have had over seven years to optimize there code on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 CPU intensive architecture. Enough said, Lens of Truth love facts and if your interested in some facts about the Wii U and its advanced architecture you should read this articleZeldainformer.com

It irritates me to read people or websites(HELLO GAMESPOT) bashing a new console without knowing the why's and how's.

Jaysonguy

Great point... people are sheep and cant think logically

Are you thinking logically?

All that there is that the Wii U can compete with hardware 6 and 7 years old

It wont be able to keep up with new hardware releasing next year.

Next year...ha.. you mean like the ps2 couldn't keep up with the xbox....lol yeah I wouldn't hold my breathe