The anti-evolution of Pokemon

Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

It's no surprise that Pokemon has been a big name since the 90s. There have been countless Pokemon memorabilia throughout the years. Pokemon games were also made which were very popular with the emphasis on monster collecting and battling. With the years gone by there have been many Pokemon games, many more Pokemon introduced but has anything really changed?

For me the obvious answer is no and some people may be fine with that and will say, "don't fix what isn't broken" but it's not to say that Pokemon is "broken" but at this point it seems mundane and unwilling to change. All the newer Pokemon games seem to offer is more of the same but with more Pokemon. Even in X and Y, the game has nice and shiny graphics but it doesn't really offer anything new. I'm not expecting Pokemon to turn into a completely different game but there could at least be some changes, even small ones like offering 6 moves per Pokemon instead of just 4 as it's always been.

It also seems as though the Pokemon look worse with every generation. It's as if they're running out of ideas and it really shows, a garbage bag Pokemon? An ice cream cone? A key chain? Is Pokemon turning into Dragon Warrior or what? Seriously though, with every generation I feel like there's less and less new Pokemon to look forward to. If that weren't enough, the Pokemon in X and Y are really no better either, there are maybe a few that look passable but most don't look very appealing. The starters look okay though nothing spectacular and there are certain other ones that actually look decent like Talonflame or Tyrantrum but a lot of others either look embarrassing, just plain girly or even look like something out of Neopets(yes Amaura, I'm talking about you). As you may know already, there was a new type introduced in X and Y being the fairy type. I honestly don't understand adding this type because most of these fairy types are mostly pink and girly looking. The newest version of Eevee, Slyveon, looks so laughably bad, I'm not even kidding. What the hell were they trying to do with these designs? Were they trying to attract more girls to Pokemon or something? What's even worse is males using Slyveon because "fairy type is so good and overpowered".

Maybe I could forgive all the bad designs if Pokemon actually had interesting gameplay, which it doesn't. In times past you could've said it did though and that's because it was something that felt new and not rehashed over and over. Years ago, I played a game called Dragon Warrior which I started to feel was superior to Pokemon. In that game it played like a normal three party rpg but instead you recruited and bred monsters which made up your team. It was everything I wished Pokemon could be, with cool monsters, a long list of moves per monster and your monsters actually working as a team. In Pokemon, even double and triple battles don't feel as dynamic because there aren't enough moves that support a feature like that, it just always felt that way to me.

I still like Pokemon but I don't know if I'll be buying any more of the games unless some things start to change.

#1 Posted by Jaysonguy (37552 posts) -

You have no idea about the franchise

You're a casual player who doesn't understand it's depth

Learn something about it before you say it hasn't changed.

#2 Edited by wiifan001 (18372 posts) -

For me the obvious answer is no and some people may be fine with that and will say, "don't fix what isn't broken" but it's not to say that Pokemon is "broken" but at this point it seems mundane and unwilling to change. All the newer Pokemon games seem to offer is more of the same but with more Pokemon.

This is where I should have stopped reading.

\Maybe I could forgive all the bad designs if Pokemon actually had interesting gameplay, which it doesn't.

This is where I did stop reading.

#3 Posted by Jaysonguy (37552 posts) -

This is where I did stop reading.

You didn't miss much, it's just him saying how he doesn't understand the franchise

The post would have been more entertaining if he said "POKEMON IS SO BAD NOW, THE METROID IS ATTACKING ALL MY MARIOS!"

#4 Edited by PikachuDude860 (547 posts) -

@Jaysonguy: You have no idea about the franchise

You're a casual player who doesn't understand it's depth

Learn something about it before you say it hasn't changed.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

#5 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16672 posts) -

Wait did anyone read the part where he was bitching that some of the new Pokemon look "girly?"

Are you 13, TC? IDK about you but I stopped caring whether or not things are girly along time ago. I mean, I'm a male and dress like one and stuff but I'm not going to dislike something because it's girly. Say what you will about Sylveon, but saying you don't like the design because it's "girly and pink" makes you sound a bit like a douche honestly.

Not only that but pink can rock. How else would Viewtiful Joe complete his badass look?

#7 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

Just like you, everyone is entitled to an opinion and while you may think different, I fail to see how it's really grown and changed. I like Pokemon but with every new game that comes out, it's pretty much the same with some new things here or there. Before you call me a casual gamer, I've played every gen since Red/Blue. I won't say there isn't any depth but to me, it just doesn't seem fun anymore, like it used to. Maybe I'm just tired of the same formula and want something different by now and with Pokemon, I just don't see that happening. I also don't think I was being a "douche" by saying how there were lots of pink and girly Pokemon. Just look at Slyveon for Christ sake... He's an embarrassment and maybe you're fine with that but where are the cool designs...? I'm not seeing many and there's no need to try and butcher me for the sake of an opinion.

#8 Posted by spike6958 (4701 posts) -

Just like you, everyone is entitled to an opinion and while you may think different, I fail to see how it's really grown and changed. I like Pokemon but with every new game that comes out, it's pretty much the same with some new things here or there. Before you call me a casual gamer, I've played every gen since Red/Blue. I won't say there isn't any depth but to me, it just doesn't seem fun anymore, like it used to. Maybe I'm just tired of the same formula and want something different by now and with Pokemon, I just don't see that happening. I also don't think I was being a "douche" by saying how there were lots of pink and girly Pokemon. Just look at Slyveon for Christ sake... He's an embarrassment and maybe you're fine with that but where are the cool designs...? I'm not seeing many and there's no need to try and butcher me for the sake of an opinion.

Jesus, are you 12 or something? Seriously, things looking "girly" is something only a kid gets worked up about, when you grow up you realize none of that matters, besides these "pink and girly" Pokemon have existed since first gen with Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff and Clefairy/Clefable and Chansey so stop acting like it's a new introduction.

Also just because you claim to have played every gen since Red & Blue doesn't mean you're not casual. A casual Pokemon player is someone who just plays through to the E4 and maybe does some of the post-game stuff, like catching Legendaries, if you're not casual then you're EV training, breading, and fighting in competitive battles where the real "hardcore" side of Pokemon comes out.

#9 Edited by YearoftheSnake5 (7182 posts) -
@skeebee123 said:

For me

You know what this means? It's an opinion, people. As in, he's not stating it as fact. FFS, why throw him under the bus for it? Apparently, it's difficult for people to disagree and state why in a way that's remotely meaningful.

I've gravitated away from Pokemon over the years. The only two I've played are Gold and Y. After playing the hell out of Gold, none of the new games seemed to advance the series very much, at least at a glance. Y seemed to be a step forward for the franchise, so I decided to check it out. I have to agree that many of the new Pokemon are lacking creativity. One of the early Pokemon I encountered in Y was a floating sword, which stood out as particularly unoriginal. Whether they look girly or not doesn't bother me any. I'm partial to the first 251 Pokemon, and some of those characters, such as Celebi and Clefairy, could be classified as 'girly', but did it really matter? Y hasn't managed to hold my attention very well, even though there are some new(to me) features, such as airial-only and multi Pokemon battles.

I think it's just me, though. My mindset is different than when I played Gold over ten years ago, so perhaps I've simply moved on. Others enjoy it and find more depth to it than I. Nothing wrong with that.

#10 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16672 posts) -

Just like you, everyone is entitled to an opinion and while you may think different, I fail to see how it's really grown and changed. I like Pokemon but with every new game that comes out, it's pretty much the same with some new things here or there. Before you call me a casual gamer, I've played every gen since Red/Blue. I won't say there isn't any depth but to me, it just doesn't seem fun anymore, like it used to. Maybe I'm just tired of the same formula and want something different by now and with Pokemon, I just don't see that happening. I also don't think I was being a "douche" by saying how there were lots of pink and girly Pokemon. Just look at Slyveon for Christ sake... He's an embarrassment and maybe you're fine with that but where are the cool designs...? I'm not seeing many and there's no need to try and butcher me for the sake of an opinion.

Hey guys apparently pink Pokemon and poor design is exclusive to the new generation.

#11 Posted by meetroid8 (21139 posts) -

You have no idea about the franchise

You're a casual player who doesn't understand it's depth

Learn something about it before you say it hasn't changed.

Should people be condemned for playing the game casually? If changes and improvements can only be appreciated by people who delve very deeply into and devote significant amounts of time to the game, can more casual players who are only playing for fun really be blamed for not noticing those improvements?

#12 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

lol I wasn't necessarily saying that pink and girly designs were exclusive to X and Y but the fairy type was introduced so to me it seemed like the pinkier Pokemon were more even more relevant because of the new type. This isn't only my opinion either, I've known of people too who have seen the difference in designs since Red and Blue. Is there any reason why most people I know think the monsters from Red and Blue look the best? I'm not the only one to rag on the ol' trash bag Pokemon or ice cream cone, among others and even so, I've still used these Pokemon even though they look ridiculous. I'm not biased, I'd use any Pokemon but it would certainly help if they didn't look retarded though and I don't care anything about using a Pokemon just because of op moves or stats, I use who I want with the moves I want. No, I don't really care about things like EV training because it just seems too tedious to me and if that makes me "casual" in your eyes then so be it but that doesn't mean I haven't invested countless hours into Pokemon games, like other people, which I have too.

#13 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

There's simply too many people with that whole "elitist" attitude. "If you aren't investing countless hours into tedious tasks such as breeding and EV training them you aren't playing the game right...!" >_> Which is the attitude a lot of people have and don't even get to started with online battles... Why should I battle online when most people are either using legendaries or Pokemon with Mega evolution...? I also don't see why just because someone might not wanna participate in online battles automatically makes them casual gamers who don't know sh!t about the game. Trading is also a bit of a joke too since one day I was looking for some really common Pokemon like Skiddo (since I was too lazy to catch one in the wild one day, lol) and guess what most people wanted in return...? Legendaries.

#14 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16672 posts) -

@skeebee123: Whether or not you like the looks of the Pokemon is entirely subjective. I happen to think that Gen 2 has the best set of Pokemon and that Gen 1 is wildly overrated. Who among the two of us is more right?

I'd say that every generation has some great designs and some bad ones. For instance, yes, Gen V gave us the wonderment that is Vanilluxe and Garboudor, but it also gave us Vaolcarona and Haxorus, the former of which is in my top five favorite Pokemon. Oh and BTw, I happen to like Sylveon's design too. In fact I'd say the majority of the Pokemon from Gen VI (not all of them but most) are pretty well designed.

#15 Edited by Jaysonguy (37552 posts) -

There's simply too many people with that whole "elitist" attitude.

You're confusing elitist with correct

The game is layers and layers of gameplay design, the fact you only notice one of those layers makes you wrong about every single thing you're saying about it

#16 Edited by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer I only used Gen 1 as an example and they may be overrated but it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of people like the older designs better. There are some good designs from later generations, I won't argue about that but Vanilluxe and Garboudour aren't the only questionable looking Pokemon, there are a lot more that I could point out though these are just my opinions, like my blog. It's not like the older Gens didn't have silly looking Pokemon but as time goes on I'm seeing more silly ones. A lot of the Pokemon I like are the unusual ones and then there have been ones that never appealed to me, yet I used them and started liking them a little more. Seeing them for the first time though, there aren't many that wow'd me or made me think,"These Pokemon look so cool, I can't wait to buy this game". Anyway, it's fine if you like Pokemon like Slyveon but for me I'll just never see the appeal. I guess the designs might've appealed to me more in the past when was a kid but now I'm older and want something different. After playing all these years maybe I'm just getting bored of Pokemon, like YearoftheSnake5.

#17 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

@Jaysonguy Well maybe not everyone cares about EV training and breeding. I already tried those before and I'd rather not subject myself to that same boredom again, I just wanna play the damn game and I don't care if most would consider how I play to be "wrong".

@turtlethetaffer I don't think all designs from later Gens are terrible but there are a lot of people I know who wanted to stop playing Pokemon because they thought the designs were overall just getting silly. Maybe that's shallow thinking since even if the designs were getting more silly, I still played anyway but the fairy type being introduced was pretty underwhelming.

#18 Posted by hydralisk86 (8525 posts) -

@Jaysonguy Well maybe not everyone cares about EV training and breeding. I already tried those before and I'd rather not subject myself to that same boredom again, I just wanna play the damn game and I don't care if most would consider how I play to be "wrong".

@turtlethetaffer I don't think all designs from later Gens are terrible but there are a lot of people I know who wanted to stop playing Pokemon because they thought the designs were overall just getting silly. Maybe that's shallow thinking since even if the designs were getting more silly, I still played anyway but the fairy type being introduced was pretty underwhelming.

I think what Jaysonguy is saying is that when you do pokemon competitively, it's much more than just playing the single player game, beating the elite four, and ending it from there. I only know the basics, but it seems very meticulous, deep, there are a lot of factors to take care of, if you did it competitively, you would understand.

#19 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16672 posts) -

@skeebee123: Play Shin Megami Tensei IV instead then. It's a more "mature" Pokemon substitute although there's no multiplayer component. It's just a matter of taste and you have to remember that nostalgia is always a factor. Gen 2 was my first game, hence I like gen 2 best, a lot of people started with 3 and they love the designs, and I'd be willing to bet the same holds true for every other gen.

#20 Edited by Chozofication (2757 posts) -

I'll the you one thing that's got a shit ton worse, the character designs. Everything is disgustingly moe now.

I just looked at the gym leader designs for hoenn, both in the og. and the upcoming remakes, and it makes me want to puke looking at the remake...

As for pokemon designs, those peaked at johto, not to say hoenn wasn't good, sinnoh had some good stuff too. After that, now, good one's are getting scarce.

#21 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

@Hydralisk86 That may be true but can't that be said for most games in general? While the breeding, EV training and battling online may breathe a little more life into the game, it's not for everyone, especially not for people who don't have the time nor the patience for it.

@turtlethetaffer I've played the Shin Megami games and I used to like them but I grew out of those games too. I'm sure there are many people who like the designs of newer Pokemon games, I wouldn't say there aren't any good ones though I'd be lying if I said I didn't think they were getting a little more farfetched. It just erks me a little when Pokemon started to look a little more like some of the silly looking monsters out of Dragon Quest or Neopets, with that said, I can look past that and still play the games but there's no doubt there are questionable designs.

@Chozofication lol That's a good point about the Gym Leaders. It doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the Pokemon designs but the Gym Leaders do look kinda stupid.

#22 Edited by hydralisk86 (8525 posts) -

Whatever

#23 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

lol What do you mean whatever? You're giving up because I might've actually made some valid points here? There may be lots of people who care about boring tasks such as breeding or having their Pokemon be stat whores but there are also people who don't care much for those aspects and I don't see why that's so wrong.

It's also sad when a person tries to give an opinion and automatically gets butchered or labeled a "troll". I'm learning that giving anything except the "popular" opinion will turn many against you.

#24 Posted by hydralisk86 (8525 posts) -

lol What do you mean whatever? You're giving up because I might've actually made some valid points here? There may be lots of people who care about boring tasks such as breeding or having their Pokemon be stat whores but there are also people who don't care much for those aspects and I don't see why that's so wrong.

It's also sad when a person tries to give an opinion and automatically gets butchered or labeled a "troll". I'm learning that giving anything except the "popular" opinion will turn many against you.

I editted my topic, that's why i just said whatever. I'll just say you shouldn't say something has no depth, when you haven't had experience in it. I only know a little about pokemon, but i get the feeling it's more than just finishing the singleplayer campaign. JaysonGuy and Wiifan101 pretty much said you were wrong, i think they sound like people who've actually done pokemon long after beating the elite four. There is breeding for the proper nature and possibly for IVs, EVing pokemon, building your pokemon team, getting the right movesets, etc, even experimenting with TMs, I've personally never spent a lot of time on pokemon, but i still think if you're going to judge something you have to know enough about it to judge it.

#25 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

I've already said that I've spent time with things like breeding but for me it got too tedious and boring. I guess it really just boils down to the person since not everyone cares so much about stats or breeding that they'd wanna spend countless hours doing so. I'd rather spend those hours by actually having fun with the game instead of boring myself with tasks I don't care about. If people wanna EV train or breed then fine but that doesn't automatically give those people the right to say that people who don't know nothing about the games even if we've been playing every game since Red/Blue.To me an assumption like that would seem very wrong. I honestly think people care way too much about things like stats and not enough about the fun of the game and if that wasn't the case then why are there so many people using or wanting legendaries? I see it all the time.

#26 Edited by hydralisk86 (8525 posts) -

@skeebee123: You assume that because you did a little of breeding and EVing, and that you found it boring, that that automatically makes Pokemon a game that doesn't have depth. People have played Blue and Red versions, yes, but that doesn't mean they've gone into the deeper aspects of the game. There is a big difference between playing the singleplayer part of the game, and going competitive and doing the other stuff.

#27 Posted by Chozofication (2757 posts) -

I've already said that I've spent time with things like breeding but for me it got too tedious and boring. I guess it really just boils down to the person since not everyone cares so much about stats or breeding that they'd wanna spend countless hours doing so. I'd rather spend those hours by actually having fun with the game instead of boring myself with tasks I don't care about. If people wanna EV train or breed then fine but that doesn't automatically give those people the right to say that people who don't know nothing about the games even if we've been playing every game since Red/Blue.To me an assumption like that would seem very wrong. I honestly think people care way too much about things like stats and not enough about the fun of the game and if that wasn't the case then why are there so many people using or wanting legendaries? I see it all the time.

Well, in X and Y breeding and ev training has become very fast and easy. You can breed a pokemon with perfect iv's and train it in less than a couple hours. Seriously. This is hundred's of times easier than it used to be, which if we're talking about back then I agree it's tedious and awful. I strongly recommend trying out x and y and getting into the deeper aspects. It's so rewarding finally getting that perfect 'mon.

In competitive battling, no one uses uber's, you can't even use them in random wifi battles. I use pokemon like arbok competitively, which has pretty mediocre stats compared to the best, and I still win. That's what's so awesome about pokemon, finding creative ways to use your favorite pokemon and smacking down top tier pokemon that dwarf yours in stats. There's so much depth and replayability.

You have to understand that the main point of pokemon now is competitive battles, but I still find going through the story's very enjoyable, even if they never beat the original's.

#28 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

Well, I don't really play the games to be competitive online. I know for most people that's probably the biggest thing about the game and everything else is secondary. I've seen people using legendaries online though I don't remember what specific online mode I was playing. Even if I were to battle competitively does that mean I have to EV train or breed? Does that mean people who EV train and breed have a significant advantage over those who don't? I know I don't know every little thing about Pokemon and every time I've ever played Pokemon I've always cared about the adventure itself more than competitive battling. If that makes it seem like I know absolutely nothing about the game then I guess I can't change anyone's mind by now but for myself, I don't think I would care much about spending time breeding, EV training and battling online if the core gameplay is still the same. I said this same thing to myself years ago since in my mind, the series was just being milked. People always talk about other games like CoD (not that I care about CoD just making a point) in that regard but why does Pokemon get a free pass? It's fine if people like the games, I can understand why they would in a way but for others, the series has simply gone stale. I personally wouldn't mind if they tried another spin off, like they did with the Mystery Dungeon games, though I don't care much for those either.

#29 Posted by hydralisk86 (8525 posts) -

@skeebee123: I apologize if i hurt your feelings, but from what little I know about pokemon, i get the feeling that there is alot to do with pokemon after the singeplayer game. If i had the time, i would try to go more into that.

#30 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

Nah, I'm fine but I just don't get why so many people are obsessed with meta-game but then again, that's whats wrong with a lot of games not just this one, it's more about ego and elitism more than fun. I don't think there's anything wrong with dipping your feet in the water with things like breeding or EV training but when people act like everyone should be devoting all their time doing these things, that's when it just seems like going too far. I'd rather spend more time actually playing the game rather than spending most time reading wikis or breeding for an absurd amount of time in hopes of the "perfect" Pokemon. Of course there's more to the game than single player but then again, that can be said for any online game but it's a little worrisome to me if all most people care about is having the "perfect" Pokemon for online. I guess "gotta catch em all!" doesn't really apply anymore. The slogan now should be "gotta breed and EV train to the max!"

#31 Posted by YoshiYogurt (5973 posts) -

There is so much to do in pokemon it's ridiculous, especially with the HUGE meta game.

Play something else because it sounds like all you do in the games is get the badges, beat the elite 4, then sit there like "Omi GOD, its da same ting!!!1!"

#32 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

I never said there aren't things to do but when it comes to Pokemon but it seems like most people spend more time worrying about having a "perfect" Pokemon than anything else. I can understand wanting to do well in a game but not to a point where you're devoting insane amounts of time just in preparation and not even actually playing. The actual gameplay of Pokemon gets stale, I don't see what's hard to understand about that and if there was no EV training or breeding do you think many people would still play? Maybe I should play something else if you've played one Pokemon game you've played them all except some just have a little more features than others but I still enjoy it despite how repetitive and grindy it is. I just wish it could be something more than what it is now, which is a milked franchise.

#33 Posted by Jaysonguy (37552 posts) -

I never said there aren't things to do but when it comes to Pokemon but it seems like most people spend more time worrying about having a "perfect" Pokemon than anything else. I can understand wanting to do well in a game but not to a point where you're devoting insane amounts of time just in preparation and not even actually playing. The actual gameplay of Pokemon gets stale, I don't see what's hard to understand about that and if there was no EV training or breeding do you think many people would still play? Maybe I should play something else if you've played one Pokemon game you've played them all except some just have a little more features than others but I still enjoy it despite how repetitive and grindy it is. I just wish it could be something more than what it is now, which is a milked franchise.

You have no idea what you're talking about, stop now, you're only making yourself look worse

#34 Edited by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

@Jaysonguy Yeah I know, because I don't pour tons of hours into EV training and breeding I don't know sh!t right? So if things like EV training, breeding and online battling were a lot smaller of an aspect, do you think many people would still play or be interested? I don't see how I'm making myself look worse, it's mostly fanboys who do that. People who can't stand if you call their games less than perfect.

#35 Posted by Jaysonguy (37552 posts) -

@Jaysonguy Yeah I know, because I don't pour tons of hours into EV training and breeding I don't know sh!t right? So if things like EV training, breeding and online battling were a lot smaller of an aspect, do you think many people would still play or be interested? I don't see how I'm making myself look worse, it's mostly fanboys who do that. People who can't stand if you call their games less than perfect.

.........

You're playing one part of the game, one part of a game that has MANY parts. It's like getting COD and only playing the single player campaign and then wondering what the big fuss is about.

You don't even know the basics about the franchise. I'm wondering how ignorant do you have to be to not see the changes. I'm trying to imagine this freaking fog you live in that allows you to pick up a game and only have the ability to see the most basic things.

I'm surprised I haven't read a post from you that says "all you do is move the D-pad and your character moves, that's a rehash of every other game that has you move with the D-pad, way to mail in that effort developers"

You came on here spouting off like you have an idea what you're talking about. Instead of asking what there is about Pokemon that you're missing you decided to rip on something you have no clue about. Then when it becomes evident that you made a very poor life choice you come on trying to defend your initial ignorance. It's not going to work, go make another thread because you're done in this one.

#36 Posted by Skeebee123 (25 posts) -

@Jaysonguy Even if the game supposedly has "many" parts now the gameplay itself is just like games prior. I don't think "preparation" really counts as actual gameplay, just like reading wikis isn't playing the game, that's just research. I go on the GTS, I see a lot of people further proving my point of wanting "perfect" Pokemon or just legendaries. It makes me think a lot of people playing this game now are shallow and mostly just care about stats rather than actual fun. Also what do you expect me to do when it was others like yourself who bashed me and tried to make me look like I'm an idiot for expressing my opinion? If online is the main aspect now, why the hell don't they just make a Pokemon MMO and be done with it? It makes little sense for them not to at this point but they probably won't because they know they can get away with releasing the same game over and over and people will still buy it. Maybe I was a fool to think Pokemon could be better than what it is, that it could evolve and have better gameplay by now instead of just relying on meta game. So why isn't this an MMO...?