Suggest ways to fix Super Smash Bros

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#1 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1749 posts) -

Name one or many ways you think the Smash Bros series can be improved. Comment on the suggestions you see or expand on them.

Here's what I want to happen:

1) Either make everyone vulnerable after their up-special or no one. This was a major flaw in Brawl. Allowing only some characters to attack after their up-B is stupid. Keep it like it was in Melee; very situational with a high risk. Either that, or give everyone the same ability.

2) Make it Melee 2.0

 

Now you guys. :)

#2 Posted by Master_Of_Fools (1346 posts) -

Besides balancing characters and making them all have their own moves nothing needs to be done to the Smash Bros games then that. We dont need Mario and Luigi's only difference being a red or green fireball lol.

Melee was good and all but no. Not a Melee 2.0. Dont give everyone the same finisher thats a terrible idea. If some people are vulnerable after a finisher or not should depend on a few factors. If your characters base speed is slower then most then you should be invulnerable for a second after your finisher. If your base speed is faster then most like Sonic then you should be vulnerable after your finisher.

#3 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3591 posts) -

DON'T make it Melee 2.0. I know that from a "competitive" standpoint, Brawl gets a bad rap, but it actually did make improvements to the formula, and as such, the series shouldn't be measured by how Melee plays moving forward. That'd be taking the series in a direction it was never intended to go, if anything.

Besides, it's not like the series is 'broken' under any stretch of the imagination, so there's no need to 'fix' anything. Of course, with any new installment, you want to make improvements to the formula, but is SSB's case, that's probably all they should be. The focus of Sakurai and Co. should just be about offering more flexibility and continuing to bring more polish to the series. For example, since the 'tripping' mechanic is a hit-or-miss feature of the Brawl, make it an option, as opposed to a standard, seemingly random feature. Beyond that, just balance some tools along the way, and the next SSB should be more than fine.

Of course, if there can be anything added to really spice things up, ala Smash Balls in Brawl, that's welcome. :P

#4 Posted by darkspineslayer (19607 posts) -
Give the option to remove as many random elements as possible, remove the stupid ones like tripping. Make the competitive crowd happier. Other than that, Sakurai should go nuts. If I wanted to play Melee, it's sitting on my shelf.
#5 Posted by simomate (1859 posts) -

Sure there's room for improvement but I wasn't aware it was "broken". Also, I honestly hope they DON'T make it Melee 2.0. Brawl is far superior to Melee in many ways and yes, including the speed of the game. 

#6 Posted by OreoMilkshake (12810 posts) -
Playable online.
#7 Posted by nini200 (9680 posts) -
Playable online.OreoMilkshake
This. Without the need for a wired connection. It should be doable now with Wireless AC speed around the corner.
#8 Posted by Pixel-Perfect (5778 posts) -

The stage builder needs way more options and the ability to assign spawn points.

Online play needs to be fixed... 

Tripping? Worst idea ever duh. 

Get rid of Snake.

Game balance issues blah blah blah.

Fix the movesets of all 'clones'.

Also, I'd rather they had an expanded adventure mode than the pseudo-platformer in Brawl. If they go that route again, spend more time designing the enemies. They were mostly awful and to this day I haven't been compelled to finish the Subspace Emissary. 

Pretty much all the past stages should be available in some form. 

 

 

 

 

 

#9 Posted by tocool340 (20495 posts) -

Playable online.OreoMilkshake
The only thing I care about. Everything else that was featured in Brawl (Including tripping) was ok to me. Oh, and make Meta knight ungodly please. And perhaps, if they plan on bringing third party characters again, bring much more than just two third party characters....

Ah, and Adventure mode, please make the story more...enjoyable? Like, have something that doesn't appear to be fanmade?...

#10 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4727 posts) -

Don't remake Melee.

#11 Posted by towny_ (115 posts) -
Get rid of Snake.Pixel-Perfect
No! You can't take away snake! :'(
#12 Posted by Smashbrossive50 (2884 posts) -
[QUOTE="towny_"] No! You can't take away snake! :'(

David Hayter didn't seem to reprise his role as snake anymore,in his place now is Richard Doyle
#13 Posted by Pikminmaniac (8846 posts) -

Just look at project M for the kind of direction I want to take Smash in. It's faster and movesets are more strategical in general.

#14 Posted by themagicbum9720 (6505 posts) -
i just dont want any clones like melee had.
#15 Posted by starwarsjunky (24735 posts) -
2) Make it Melee 2.04myAmuzumament
came in to say this.
#16 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16710 posts) -

I wasn't aware that it needed fixing.

#17 Posted by sonic_spark (4607 posts) -

More of everything (stages, characters)

No clones

Fix the Adventure Mode 

A better stage builder

Megaman.

#18 Posted by josephl64 (4424 posts) -

I found melee to be the worst Smash Bros., so a Melee 2.0 would be awful

#19 Posted by DJ-Lafleur (34145 posts) -

I don't know if I want Smash 3DS or Smash 4 to be Melee 2.0, but I would like them not to not have anything stupid like tripping, more hit-stun, and no characters that become too dominant like Meta-Knight did in Brawl.

#20 Posted by hotdiddykong (2048 posts) -

"Melee 2.0"

 

SIGH, you guys realize its NOT going to be Melee 2.0 but possibly will be better than Melee without being a direct 2.0, and Melee had its flaws, especailly the amount of clones that brawl eventually fixed and the exploits that people are akin to use.

 

you have to understand how Sakurai does it, he picks up a bunch of devs to make the game so its always fresh. 64 devs arent the same as Melee and same with Brawl, which is why all 3 games have a different experience and the same thing happened with Kid Icarus uprising where Sakurai picked a bunch of devs to form Project Sora specifically for Uprising and then shut down the name but put the devs where they were before and now we have them, Sakurai's team and Namco working together on the Wii U game. Whatever new concept their gonna have, we gotta embrace it.

 

I agree with Fixing Up B's like Sonc and Snakes but otherwise i like the more unique ones that justify it like Yoshi's.

#21 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16710 posts) -

More of everything (stages, characters)

No clones

Fix the Adventure Mode 

A better stage builder

Megaman.

sonic_spark

More like rpeferences then problems :P

Most of that will likely happen in the next game.

#22 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1749 posts) -
More hit stun is needed too. In Brawl, when you hit the characters, they felt/reacted like plush dolls whereas in Melee there was satisfaction in every blow. I guess this is knockback. Example, Links up-special on the ground felt a lot stronger than it did in Brawl. The only character in Brawl who has this strong knockback trait is Snake because all his moves are friggin OP. Thus, I hated Snake. Donkey Kong was close enough to the strength I wanted so he became my main guy. The ledge grabbing mechanic also needs to be changed back to the original way it was; if you're facing the wrong way after your up-special after recovering, TOO BAD. Learn how to up-B correctly. This change ruined Mario's cape move and made him less fun. I was sad that Mario had to move down to my number 2 guy. Take out Sonic or put weights on his feet. He took Captain Falcon's spot in fasted character. Also make the timing for Falcon's run and jump and land similar to what it was in Melee. Falcon is an abomination in Brawl. Give strength back to characters who pull out items they can throw. Peach and Links down specials were ruined in Brawl. Remove moves that keep items on the field like Diddy's stupid bananas and ROBS stupid top and Wario's stupid bike. I hope Sakurai isn't on drugs when making Smash Bros U like he was when he was making Brawl. Or vice versa, he needs to do the opposite of what he did to Brawl. :)
#23 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3591 posts) -

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, 4myAmuzumament, but I can't help but look at your comment and think that maybe you've played Melee too much. Don't get me wrong... I probably put too many hours into the game myself back in the day, but it's hard to call many of your suggestions actual 'improvements' to the series. Other than the fact that Snake is insanely powerful (heck, his strong attacks are as potent as some Smash attacks), all I see is suggestions to make the same game that can be picked up and played as we speak. Can't say I share your enthusiasm about that.

It's hard to take the suggestions seriously when it all reads, "Melee did this, so do it like that," and I'm not even a developer. If I'm not mistaken, I remember reading something about Brawl's development team actually playing Melee for over 10,000 hours, so they obviously had a vision in mind for that game and the series when making Brawl. And given the slapstick and chaotic nature of the original game, I don't think the series' intent was ever to be a hard-hitting, extremely technical game, even if it has its share of advanced tech. I'm not sure if every element of Brawl was executed to perfection (in fact, no game is, especially fighters), but I do think it was a step in the right direction, and until further notice, I suspect Sakurai feels that way, too.

#24 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1749 posts) -

maybe you've played Melee too much

Madmangamer364
This very true. :P I'm not a total Brawl hater though, I had fun with it. It just wasn't what I expected and a lot of MY mains or people I thought were fun to play as got gimped. Brawl had it's fair share of fun characters though. The Subspace Emissary was an abomination though. Adventure Mode was objectively better, they should expand on that formula. I don't even want another game like Melee anyway, it would make my GC and Melee obsolete. :P
#25 Posted by sonic_spark (4607 posts) -

[QUOTE="sonic_spark"]

More of everything (stages, characters)

No clones

Fix the Adventure Mode 

A better stage builder

Megaman.

turtlethetaffer

More like rpeferences then problems :P

Most of that will likely happen in the next game.

Those are my problems LOL.

#26 Posted by nini200 (9680 posts) -

More hit stun is needed too. Agreed

In Brawl, when you hit the characters, they felt/reacted like plush dolls whereas in Melee there was satisfaction in every blow. This is the biggest lie about Melee I have ever read.  Melee felt like your hits did nothing.  There was almost No satisfaction in your blows.  It's like every hit slid off the character because the second you hit them, they are back in your face smashing you.  Especially the Multihit attacks such as Link's multistab or Fox's multikick.  Those things did little to nothing on Melee.  That needs to be fixed badly.

I guess this is knockback. Example, Links up-special on the ground felt a lot stronger than it did in Brawl. The only character in Brawl who has this strong knockback trait is Snake because all his moves are friggin OP. Thus, I hated Snake. Donkey Kong was close enough to the strength I wanted so he became my main guy. Yoshi is the only character in Melee that had correct multihit attack and that was in the air with Down + A.  Everybody elses felt like you just slipped through them.

The ledge grabbing mechanic also needs to be changed back to the original way it was; if you're facing the wrong way after your up-special after recovering, TOO BAD. Learn how to up-B correctly. This change ruined Mario's cape move and made him less fun. I was sad that Mario had to move down to my number 2 guy. I can deal with this. This could be readded.

Take out Sonic or put weights on his feet. He took Captain Falcon's spot in fasted character. Also make the timing for Falcon's run and jump and land similar to what it was in Melee. Falcon is an abomination in Brawl. Give strength back to characters who pull out items they can throw. Peach and Links down specials were ruined in Brawl. Remove moves that keep items on the field like Diddy's stupid bananas and ROBS stupid top and Wario's stupid bike. I hope Sakurai isn't on drugs when making Smash Bros U like he was when he was making Brawl. Or vice versa, he needs to do the opposite of what he did to Brawl. :)  While I agree that Sakurai must've been on drugs when he made the Tripping mechanic, I have to say that Brawl was better than Melee overall and while Brawl isn't perfect, Melee isn't nowhere close to perfect. Brawl has Uniqueness of character (less clones), MUCH improved Hit Stun, Actual Damage taken with each blow (instead of on Melee where you had to do like 3 attacks for it to do any damage (Mainly talking Multihit attacks here)), Better Roster, and  customization.  Melee had MUCH better stages, better Pokeball Pokemon selection, and Wavedashing.4myAmuzumament

#27 Posted by ssj_neo (162 posts) -

fix the online, add more modes (things like king of the hill or elimination, a 20 man elimation online mode would be sick)

mii support (with the abilty to custimize your char)

 

an adventure mode where you unlock more things to custimze your mii with.

spectator mode, and a mode were the spectator can change the rules of the match and drag and drop items to the battle field.

#28 Posted by i-rock-socks (3065 posts) -

get rid of random tripping (moves that cause tripping, and tripping on certain surfaces, like ice, randomly is fine), and make the controls tighter like in melee (less floaty) and ill be happy

those were my only 2 problems with brawl

#29 Posted by i-rock-socks (3065 posts) -

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"]

In Brawl, when you hit the characters, they felt/reacted like plush dolls whereas in Melee there was satisfaction in every blow. This is the biggest lie about Melee I have ever read.  Melee felt like your hits did nothing.  There was almost No satisfaction in your blows.  It's like every hit slid off the character because the second you hit them, they are back in your face smashing you.  Especially the Multihit attacks such as Link's multistab or Fox's multikick.  Those things did little to nothing on Melee.  That needs to be fixed badly.

nini200

i guess we played different games cause i remember quite clearly being able to juggle people in the air very effectly, i never felt my attacks did nothing. the attacks you mentioned are supposed to be weak, try stacking up some damage and/or using power attacks instead of spamming jabs

#30 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3591 posts) -

[QUOTE="nini200"]

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"]

In Brawl, when you hit the characters, they felt/reacted like plush dolls whereas in Melee there was satisfaction in every blow. This is the biggest lie about Melee I have ever read.  Melee felt like your hits did nothing.  There was almost No satisfaction in your blows.  It's like every hit slid off the character because the second you hit them, they are back in your face smashing you.  Especially the Multihit attacks such as Link's multistab or Fox's multikick.  Those things did little to nothing on Melee.  That needs to be fixed badly.

i-rock-socks

i guess we played different games cause i remember quite clearly being able to juggle people in the air very effectly, i never felt my attacks did nothing. the attacks you mentioned are supposed to be weak, try stacking up some damage and/or using power attacks instead of spamming jabs

I think nini200 is right here. Certain attacks weren't useful at all because your opponent could counterattack just as quicky as they were hit in Melee. In a lot of cases, you were punished for successfully executing moves because you'd get hit by a more powerful mid-air attack before you could even recover from your own attack. Zelda's a good example, as well, since two of her Smash attacks are multi-hit moves, which were way too difficult to take advantage of in Melee's system. I've always felt that Brawl's Zelda was how she was supposed to have played like in the first place, and the stun system plays a part in that.

#31 Posted by TheLordMagnus (3783 posts) -
Not only fix the online mode, but stop treating your gamers like children. Why do we need to add people to a friends list in order to have all of the options select-able online? Playing against random opponents should be the same as playing against everyone else.
#32 Posted by GunSmith1_basic (9779 posts) -
imo, the problem with Brawl was that they tried to give it AAA, epic production values. Smash Bros needs to be a stripped down series. We don't need all the bells and whistles all over the place. Subspace Emissary should have never existed. Just augment the rosters and update the fighting. Make a simple, functional online experience. The extras in the game just bog the experience down, like a musical album padded with bad songs. Most importantly, all these extras take time and resources to develop, pushing the release date further in the future and taking away resources that could be used to create new software, or to speed up the development of a game series that actually benefits from production values like Zelda does.
#33 Posted by i-rock-socks (3065 posts) -

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]

[QUOTE="nini200"]

Madmangamer364

i guess we played different games cause i remember quite clearly being able to juggle people in the air very effectly, i never felt my attacks did nothing. the attacks you mentioned are supposed to be weak, try stacking up some damage and/or using power attacks instead of spamming jabs

I think nini200 is right here. Certain attacks weren't useful at all because your opponent could counterattack just as quicky as they were hit in Melee. In a lot of cases, you were punished for successfully executing moves because you'd get hit by a more powerful mid-air attack before you could even recover from your own attack. Zelda's a good example, as well, since two of her Smash attacks are multi-hit moves, which were way too difficult to take advantage of in Melee's system. I've always felt that Brawl's Zelda was how she was supposed to have played like in the first place, and the stun system plays a part in that.

i think u mean shiek (yeah their the same, but with different moves and pro and cons, it is important to note which half ur referring to), cause zelda was a one hiter quiter, and in melee i used almost entirely shiek and never had any problems with being constantly countered with her forward "A" or any of her attacks. but i always charge her attacks, even if only for a split second. zelda hits so hard you knock em too far for them to instantly counter you and shiek hits so fast and (not as) powerfully that i can keep kicking em in the air (alot harder to do in brawl cause of the floaty controls) thats how i played them at least.

maybe i just got so good (none of my friends could beat me :cool: ) that im the exception to the rule, but i never had the issue your describing.

#34 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1749 posts) -
imo, the problem with Brawl was that they tried to give it AAA, epic production values. Smash Bros needs to be a stripped down series. We don't need all the bells and whistles all over the place. Subspace Emissary should have never existed. Just augment the rosters and update the fighting. Make a simple, functional online experience. The extras in the game just bog the experience down, like a musical album padded with bad songs. Most importantly, all these extras take time and resources to develop, pushing the release date further in the future and taking away resources that could be used to create new software, or to speed up the development of a game series that actually benefits from production values like Zelda does.GunSmith1_basic
I agree. I feel like this type of game is essentially just a copy and paste type deal with a little tweaking. Keeping it simple is what made the first two so great. Brawl is the try-hard in the series.
#35 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3591 posts) -

i think u mean shiek (yeah their the same, but with different moves and pro and cons, it is important to note which half ur referring to), cause zelda was a one hiter quiter, and in melee i used almost entirely shiek and never had any problems with being constantly countered with her forward "A" or any of her attacks. but i always charge her attacks, even if only for a split second. zelda hits so hard you knock em too far for them to instantly counter you and shiek hits so fast and (not as) powerfully that i can keep kicking em in the air (alot harder to do in brawl cause of the floaty controls) thats how i played them at least.

maybe i just got so good (none of my friends could beat me :cool: ) that im the exception to the rule, but i never had the issue your describing.

i-rock-socks

Nah, I was actually referring to Zelda (the princess). I rarely use Sheik in either game. Zelda's forward and up smash attacks are multi-hit attacks that would launch on the last hit. The problem I consistently had with Melee's Zelda was that my opponent would bounce away before the entire attack, especially the last hit, connected. Therefore, I could inflict damage fine, but finishing off opponents was too much of a chore. With Brawl's Zelda, I feel like the entirety of her Smash attacks connect much more often, and minus the increased execution it takes to directly connect her mid-air lightning kick, I actually think she's more effective. Much to my surprise, I actually found out she's a low-tier character in Brawl, but I've never really found myself in a situation where it felt like I was in a bad matchup with her.

Oh yeah... I was pretty darn dominant in my friendly circles, as well. :P

#36 Posted by nini200 (9680 posts) -

i think u mean shiek (yeah their the same, but with different moves and pro and cons, it is important to note which half ur referring to), cause zelda was a one hiter quiter, and in melee i used almost entirely shiek and never had any problems with being constantly countered with her forward "A" or any of her attacks. but i always charge her attacks, even if only for a split second. zelda hits so hard you knock em too far for them to instantly counter you and shiek hits so fast and (not as) powerfully that i can keep kicking em in the air (alot harder to do in brawl cause of the floaty controls) thats how i played them at least.

maybe i just got so good (none of my friends could beat me :cool: ) that im the exception to the rule, but i never had the issue your describing.

i-rock-socks

Nah, I was actually referring to Zelda (the princess). I rarely use Sheik in either game. Zelda's forward and up smash attacks are multi-hit attacks that would launch on the last hit. The problem I consistently had with Melee's Zelda was that my opponent would bounce away before the entire attack, especially the last hit, connected. Therefore, I could inflict damage fine, but finishing off opponents was too much of a chore. With Brawl's Zelda, I feel like the entirety of her Smash attacks connect much more often, and minus the increased execution it takes to directly connect her mid-air lightning kick, I actually think she's more effective. Much to my surprise, I actually found out she's a low-tier character in Brawl, but I've never really found myself in a situation where it felt like I was in a bad matchup with her.

Oh yeah... I was pretty darn dominant in my friendly circles, as well. :PMadmangamer364

This exactly. Basically your hits felt like the hits had no hit stun nor much connection in Melee. You'd hit them and they'd bounce off your attack and counter before your frames even finished.

I mean look at this fight.

Melee

Falco hits Marth so many times (With multiple different attacks) in the beginning but Marth has basically no hit stun.  It's as if Marth has invulnerabilty and Marth isn't even one of the heavy characters.

Brawl

As you see, the hits look like they count more in Brawl.  A regular A in Brawl will stun the opponent for a quick moment, in Melee, it looked as if they brushed it off.

Melee was fun, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I think they corrected some issues with the hit stun in Brawl.  The tripping mechanic was complete idiocy though.

I loved the stage selection much better in Melee and honestly, I was fine with the fast pacing of Melee but I believe that the game needs to have a slower than Melee but Faster than Brawl pacing for the next one and have the hit stun that Brawl has.

#37 Posted by GreatExarch (24 posts) -
I didn't realize Super Smash Bros was broken. Seems to be working as intended, but then I guess I never played seriously. Kinda seems like taking Mario Kart seriously, or something. It's fun, but nothing seriously competitive. Besides, the only way to play is with people sitting next to you.
#38 Posted by i-rock-socks (3065 posts) -

[QUOTE="i-rock-socks"]

i think u mean shiek (yeah their the same, but with different moves and pro and cons, it is important to note which half ur referring to), cause zelda was a one hiter quiter, and in melee i used almost entirely shiek and never had any problems with being constantly countered with her forward "A" or any of her attacks. but i always charge her attacks, even if only for a split second. zelda hits so hard you knock em too far for them to instantly counter you and shiek hits so fast and (not as) powerfully that i can keep kicking em in the air (alot harder to do in brawl cause of the floaty controls) thats how i played them at least.

maybe i just got so good (none of my friends could beat me :cool: ) that im the exception to the rule, but i never had the issue your describing.

nini200

Nah, I was actually referring to Zelda (the princess). I rarely use Sheik in either game. Zelda's forward and up smash attacks are multi-hit attacks that would launch on the last hit. The problem I consistently had with Melee's Zelda was that my opponent would bounce away before the entire attack, especially the last hit, connected. Therefore, I could inflict damage fine, but finishing off opponents was too much of a chore. With Brawl's Zelda, I feel like the entirety of her Smash attacks connect much more often, and minus the increased execution it takes to directly connect her mid-air lightning kick, I actually think she's more effective. Much to my surprise, I actually found out she's a low-tier character in Brawl, but I've never really found myself in a situation where it felt like I was in a bad matchup with her.

Oh yeah... I was pretty darn dominant in my friendly circles, as well. :PMadmangamer364

This exactly. Basically your hits felt like the hits had no hit stun nor much connection in Melee. You'd hit them and they'd bounce off your attack and counter before your frames even finished.

I mean look at this fight.

Melee

Falco hits Marth so many times (With multiple different attacks) in the beginning but Marth has basically no hit stun.  It's as if Marth has invulnerabilty and Marth isn't even one of the heavy characters.

Brawl

As you see, the hits look like they count more in Brawl.  A regular A in Brawl will stun the opponent for a quick moment, in Melee, it looked as if they brushed it off.

Melee was fun, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I think they corrected some issues with the hit stun in Brawl.  The tripping mechanic was complete idiocy though.

I loved the stage selection much better in Melee and honestly, I was fine with the fast pacing of Melee but I believe that the game needs to have a slower than Melee but Faster than Brawl pacing for the next one and have the hit stun that Brawl has.

well i never use regular "A" attacks i always charged my attacks so that may be why i never had that issue in any of the games (i dont doubt that it happens but from what i hear its acceptable cause there weaker attacks of weaker characters) all i know for sure is i never had that issue. maybe i just dont remember melee as well as i think. but i know i never had that issue, but i do remember using mostly shiek in melee (i still used zelda alot, but mainly sheik, and when i transformed into her, my friends knew "s**t just got real" :P), and mostly zelda in brawl, but thats because i cant connect with sheik's kicks as easily cause of the floaty controls (and cause bombarding people with zelda's fireball is too easy and effective :cool: ). at least were all on the same page on the s**ty tripping mechanic