Nintendo's hand-holding has gone out of control.

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#1 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

I was hoping A Link Between Worlds meant that they were finally starting to tone it down (what with the lack of a helper character and pretty much no tutorials), but after starting Dream Team I think it's really too early to say. Playing this game actually makes me mad. No one in that game fucking shuts up ever. It refuses to allow you to play uninterrupted for any length of time without some fucking character popping up to re-iterate plot points, where to go, how to solve a puzzle, how to navigate a menu, how to do a move when the button prompts are all displayed on screen, all in agonizing detail over and over and over and over again.

The game constantly asks if you want a tutorial for literally everything, and even if you turn it down it'll ask you again, practically begging you to let it give a tutorial. Then if you still say no it will start giving the tutorial anyway. It's fucking ridiculous.

I didn't think it was possible but Nintendo has actually made a game more agonizingly hand-holdy and repetitive than Skyward Sword. The only difference is that instead of one helper character that never shuts up and basically has no personality, you now have two. One of which never shuts up and has no personality, and another who never shuts up and is kind of a bitch.

#2 Posted by Master_Of_Fools (1308 posts) -

I understand your anger, but the thing is we put up with these things in our first Zelda's when we were younger. Ocarina of time and such. Just as you grew older you expect the games to aswell. However Zelda needs to always be able to be easier for new players. Zelda will always be my favorite franchise and I have no issue with A Link Between Worlds in fact it took the number 3 spot in my top 3 favorite Zeldas.

#3 Edited by ANIMEguy10034 (4667 posts) -

Weeeellll, the Mario & Luigi series is developed by AlphaDream, which are partnered with Nintendo but not necessarily Nintendo EAD, those who developed A Link Between Worlds.

I get annoyed by too much hand holding, but I remind myself that I'm not their only target audience. I do wish for an option to turn off tutorials, especially for experienced players and those who want to replay the game.

#4 Edited by TTUalumni13 (458 posts) -

If a toy makes you angry, play with a different toy, lol.

#5 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@Master_Of_Fools: "I understand your anger, but the thing is we put up with these things in our first Zelda's when we were younger. Ocarina of time and such."

Ocarina of Time had a tutorial that lasted all of 45 minutes if you took your time and was full of mostly optional explanations. Newer Zelda games like TP have a tutorial that takes like 4 hours to get through, or SS where the tutorial lasts the entire fucking game. Navi may have been irritating, but was completely optional. She did not completely halt the game every five minutes like helpers in recent Nintendo games.

"However Zelda needs to always be able to be easier for new players"

It doesn't though, and even if it did it wouldn't justify hand-holding on such a ridiculous level that it actually ruins the game.

@ANIMEguy10034: "I get annoyed by too much hand holding, but I remind myself that I'm not their only target audience."

The kind of people that require this level of handholding are the kind of people that can't dress themselves or are so young they'll need an adult to help them regardless. Nothing justifies this. These franchises became this popular without this garbage so there's no reason for them be bogged down with this shit now.

@ttualumni13: "If a toy makes you angry, play with a different toy, lol."

Games aren't toys. They're games. It's incredibly frustrating when you know there's an enjoyable game somewhere in there, but the game can't stop coming to a complete stop every five minutes to treat you like you're pants on head stupid.

#6 Posted by Haziqonfire (36344 posts) -

Most of the tutorials in Dream Team can be skipped so it's not really a big deal.

#7 Posted by TTUalumni13 (458 posts) -

@Pffrbt: They're toys, deal with it.

#8 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (7090 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@ttualumni13

: "If a toy makes you angry, play with a different toy, lol."

Games aren't toys. They're games. It's incredibly frustrating when you know there's an enjoyable game somewhere in there, but the game can't stop coming to a complete stop every five minutes to treat you like you're pants on head stupid.

They're toys. A different kind, but still toys. Nothing wrong with that.

#9 Posted by Soulreavercross (19890 posts) -

Did I play the same game A Link Between Worlds, I mean...because I had no problems with tutorials or interruptions of the game. That was only in the very beginning of the game, maybe for an hour or less. DId i miss something?

#10 Edited by Nintendo_Ownes7 (30917 posts) -

@Soulreavercross: Maybe they mean when Hilda interrupts gameplay when you go to a new area of Lorule and she says she senses the presence of a sage and tells you the general area where she senses them.

#11 Edited by Blabadon (25683 posts) -

Shitty taste.

Also lol at people not reading the OP beyond the first sentence because of the TC.

#12 Posted by Jaysonguy (37522 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

I was hoping A Link Between Worlds meant that they were finally starting to tone it down (what with the lack of a helper character and pretty much no tutorials), but after starting Dream Team I think it's really too early to say. Playing this game

actually

makes me mad. No one in that game fucking shuts up ever. It refuses to allow you to play uninterrupted for any length of time without some fucking character popping up to re-iterate plot points, where to go, how to solve a puzzle, how to navigate a menu, how to do a move when the button prompts are all displayed on screen, all in agonizing detail over and over and over and over again.

The game constantly asks if you want a tutorial for literally everything, and even if you turn it down it'll ask you again, practically begging you to let it give a tutorial. Then if you still say no it will

start giving the tutorial anyway.

It's fucking ridiculous.

I didn't think it was possible but Nintendo has actually made a game more agonizingly hand-holdy and repetitive than Skyward Sword. The only difference is that instead of one helper character that never shuts up and basically has no personality, you now have two. One of which never shuts up and has no personality, and another who never shuts up and is kind of a bitch.

Their main demographic is comprised of children and casuals who need instruction.

Why on Earth do you think they'll cater to you who isn't their main target?

#13 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16609 posts) -

I agree, the tutorials in Dream Team were almost too much. Many of them couldn't be skipped, despite the fact that I predicted the functionality of just about everything in the game. That being said, I still enjoyed it a lot. It was actually pretty tricky at parts (especially the giant battles).

#14 Posted by KBFloYd (12933 posts) -

lol there was no handholding in link between worlds...

only the bird telling you to take a break....and the cheat glasses that you need play coins to use...thats it.

#15 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

Most of the tutorials in Dream Team can be skipped so it's not really a big deal.

No they can't since the game will beg you repeatedly to let it give you a tutorial if you refuse and then give it to you anyway, then there's tons of other tutorials that aren't skippable constantly popping up. This completely wrecks the pacing of the game

#16 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@ttualumni13: "They're toys, deal with it."

A game by definition isn't a toy. Toys don't have rules to play by or challenges to complete.

@Soulreavercross: "Did I play the same game A Link Between Worlds, I mean...because I had no problems with tutorials or interruptions of the game. That was only in the very beginning of the game, maybe for an hour or less. DId i miss something?"

I never said A Link Between Worlds had this problem. I actually said the opposite. Hence why I said I hoped this game meant Nintendo was finally starting to tone down all of the hand-holding since ALBW had almost none. All of my complaints are from Mario and Luigi Dream Team.

@Nintendo_Ownes7: "Maybe they mean when Hilda interrupts gameplay"

I don't since I'm not even complaining about that game and brought it up as an example of something Nintendo did right. I wish you people would actually read.

@Jaysonguy: "Their main demographic is comprised of children and casuals who need instruction."

I'm not convinced there's a demographic that would be interested in this game that's actually so stupid that they need this much fucking hand-holding.

@KBFloYd: "lol there was no handholding in link between worlds..."

I made it pretty clear that that was the case.

#17 Edited by Jaysonguy (37522 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@Jaysonguy: "Their main demographic is comprised of children and casuals who need instruction."

I'm not convinced there's a demographic that would be interested in this game that's actually so stupid that they need this much fucking hand-holding.

People who have never played a game before

You're playing a game that's aimed for a four year old

#18 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

People who have never played a game before

You're playing a game that's aimed for a four year old

I don't believe you and now I remember why I muted you in the first place.

#19 Posted by Jaysonguy (37522 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@Jaysonguy said:

People who have never played a game before

You're playing a game that's aimed for a four year old

I don't believe you and now I remember why I muted you in the first place.

You don't believe me now? lol

Oh that's rich

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Newsflash Frank, Nintendo builds games for children and casual I.E. people who have never played games before and don't know the basics

"Well why do they tell me how to play the game so much?"

Because their customers don't know how!

Seriously? How do you not know this?

#20 Edited by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -
#21 Posted by TTUalumni13 (458 posts) -

Lol, trying to justify toys as somehow being anything more than toys is even more sad than getting that upset over toys not playing how you want them to.

#22 Posted by KBFloYd (12933 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@ttualumni13: "They're toys, deal with it."

A game by definition isn't a toy. Toys don't have rules to play by or challenges to complete.

@Soulreavercross: "Did I play the same game A Link Between Worlds, I mean...because I had no problems with tutorials or interruptions of the game. That was only in the very beginning of the game, maybe for an hour or less. DId i miss something?"

I never said A Link Between Worlds had this problem. I actually said the opposite. Hence why I said I hoped this game meant Nintendo was finally starting to tone down all of the hand-holding since ALBW had almost none. All of my complaints are from Mario and Luigi Dream Team.

@Nintendo_Ownes7: "Maybe they mean when Hilda interrupts gameplay"

I don't since I'm not even complaining about that game and brought it up as an example of something Nintendo did right. I wish you people would actually read.

@Jaysonguy: "Their main demographic is comprised of children and casuals who need instruction."

I'm not convinced there's a demographic that would be interested in this game that's actually so stupid that they need this much fucking hand-holding.

@KBFloYd: "lol there was no handholding in link between worlds..."

I made it pretty clear that that was the case.

oh you mean mario and luigi dream team....

my bad....

#23 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

Lol, trying to justify toys as somehow being anything more than toys is even more sad than getting that upset over toys not playing how you want them to.

By your logic sports are also toys.

#24 Edited by Master_Of_Fools (1308 posts) -

@Pffrbt:

That's where we disagree. It doesn't ruin the game for me. Don't want every character to tell you where to go? DONT TALK TO ALL THE CHARACTERS lol.

#25 Posted by Master_Of_Fools (1308 posts) -

@Nintendo_Ownes7:

Your map already showed where the sages were lol. And if it didn't tell you then we would just waste an hour looking around for the entrance to a dungeon going I know its around here somewhere lol.

#26 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@Pffrbt:

That's where we disagree. It doesn't ruin the game for me. Don't want every character to tell you where to go? DONT TALK TO ALL THE CHARACTERS lol.

Great job missing the part where I said multiple times that the game forces you to listen to characters. Kind of impossible to not talk to helper characters when every five minutes the game comes to a dead stop to have a helper character talk at you for 10 minutes.

#27 Posted by TTUalumni13 (458 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Lol, I don't think you know what that word "logic" means. Have fun playing with your toys and feeling insecure about it for whatever reason. :S

#29 Edited by TTUalumni13 (458 posts) -

@Pffrbt:

Toy: an object for a child to play with, typically a model or miniature replica of something;

an object, especially a gadget or machine, regarded as providing amusement for an adult:

As I said, insecure, go play with your toy, and go argue with the Oxford dictionary if you have any uninformed responses.

#30 Edited by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@ttualumni13:


Game:

  1. a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

A game isn't a toy. It's a game. You accusing me of being insecure isn't going to work because I don't actually care and I have no problem admitting I enjoy playing something like Noby Noby Boy, which could be described as a toy.

#31 Edited by Haziqonfire (36344 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@haziqonfire said:

Most of the tutorials in Dream Team can be skipped so it's not really a big deal.

No they can't since the game will beg you repeatedly to let it give you a tutorial if you refuse and then give it to you anyway, then there's tons of other tutorials that aren't skippable constantly popping up. This completely wrecks the pacing of the game

From what I remember almost everything was skippable. It asks you if you want to know about it and you can say no. I beat the game a while ago and never really had issues with it, though from what I remember Bowser's Inside Story was no different.

Also going to have to agree, games are toys. They sell them at Toys R' Us. That's a dead giveaway.

#32 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6005 posts) -

Toys aren't just for children, either.

GI JOE FTMFW!

#33 Edited by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

From what I remember almost everything was skippable.

I'm playing it right now. It's not. Even the stuff that is "skippable" still interrupts the game's pacing every five minutes, and refusing will often make them give an overview of the tutorial anyway.

#34 Posted by Master_Of_Fools (1308 posts) -

@Pffrbt: close your eyes and mash the a button to skip and ignore the chatting.

#35 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@Pffrbt: close your eyes and mash the a button to skip and ignore the chatting.

That doesn't stop it from constantly ruining the pacing though.

#36 Posted by calway55 (232 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@Jaysonguy: "Their main demographic is comprised of children and casuals who need instruction."

I'm not convinced there's a demographic that would be interested in this game that's actually so stupid that they need this much fucking hand-holding.

People who have never played a game before

You're playing a game that's aimed for a four year old

Out of curiosity as you say Nintendo games are made for children, what was your first Nintendo console and were you a child when you got it?

#37 Edited by mariokart64fan (19348 posts) -

lol almost every game now adays is guilty of holding in your hand in their own way,

call of duty-regenerated health , check points way points , goldeneye or perfect dark never had these

racing games- some have a thing called rewind where if you mess up you can retry from a certain spot

gta now has gps vs gta 1 -san andreas where it was a arrow or little marker and you had to pause every five seconds to see where to go

SO STOP WHINING GO PLAY a system older then last gen -ps3360 wii if you want hard challenging games , cause now adays they have to get a lot of people to play to make money

#38 Edited by Pierst179 (10715 posts) -

Hand-holding is annoying indeed, but most tutorials on Dream Team were skippable.

I agree that there should be an option to turn off any sort of tutorial the game has, which isn't the case for Dream Team or any other game I know of.

However, tutorials are one of features that have evolved the most ever since the 8-bit days and I think it is all for the better, after all, it gives a younger audience a very smooth way to learn more complex commands and strategies.

I really wish that back in the day when I was learning how to play games there were tutorials as well-done as the ones Nintendo puts out nowadays to help me along the early stages of many games. I know it would avoid a lot of frustration.

Still, like I said, I agree that a simple menu option that gives players the ability to turn on/off all tutorials is something that Nintendo, and other companies, need to implement on tutorial-heavy games.

#39 Posted by DealRogers (4567 posts) -

@KBFloYd: It was a lot easier than older games like A Link to the Past anyway. Got all pieces of heart before beating the game for the first time, which in older Zelda games would do after finishing the main story.

#40 Posted by Master_Of_Fools (1308 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Man, just cant win against you in this. Your dead set on hating the game. So I guess all I can say is fine, dislike it, your in the minority.

#41 Edited by Bigtakilla (13 posts) -

@Jaysonguy: So a game that is for four year olds beat The Last Of Us for game of the year. Lol.

#42 Posted by D-MonDRV (9253 posts) -

You talked about A Link Between Worlds, and then you jumped to Dream Team.

Zelda came out AFTER Dream Team. You're talking about two very different games with difference audiences.

#43 Posted by Chozofication (2728 posts) -

I can't speak about ALBW but Aonuma has acknowledged how bad Skyward Sword was, so I have high hopes for the next Zelda. Maybe I should be more cautious though, lol.

#44 Posted by Randolph (10426 posts) -

I understand your anger, but the thing is we put up with these things in our first Zelda's when we were younger. Ocarina of time and such. Just as you grew older you expect the games to aswell. However Zelda needs to always be able to be easier for new players. Zelda will always be my favorite franchise and I have no issue with A Link Between Worlds in fact it took the number 3 spot in my top 3 favorite Zeldas.

That people refer to OoT as the Zelda's of their youth now makes me feel so old. The Zelda's of my youth had this as a tutorial. "It's dangerous to go alone, take this!". Then I was given a sword and a swift swat on the ass out of the starting area. :)

#45 Posted by JordanElek (17719 posts) -

@Randolph said:

That people refer to OoT as the Zelda's of their youth now makes me feel so old. The Zelda's of my youth had this as a tutorial. "It's dangerous to go alone, take this!". Then I was given a sword and a swift swat on the ass out of the starting area. :)

I was hoping A Link Between Worlds would approach that same feeling, but it didn't even come close. It doesn't hold your hand, but it's so easy that it doesn't need to. Everything is on the map, so exploration is still too structured, and the dungeon puzzles are barely even puzzles.

I'd love to have something as open as the overworld of the original Zelda with dungeons as intricate as Skyward Sword, or pick your favorite. I feel like that's totally possible without any compromises.

#46 Posted by longview01 (2 posts) -

I know what you mean but it does get better, I just finished Dream Bros and it took me around the 50 hours mark and I think around hour 20 the game finally let me play the damn thing without trying to help me every 5 minutes.

I'm pretty sure the desert was the last place it did it to me

#47 Edited by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

@D-MonDRV: "You talked about A Link Between Worlds, and then you jumped to Dream Team.

Zelda came out AFTER Dream Team. You're talking about two very different games with difference audiences."

Zelda came out only a few months after Dream Team. It's fair to say they were in development at the same time, which Is why I said it's probably too early to say whether they're actually going to start toning down the hand holding. Your "different audiences" comment doesn't really carry any weight when Skyward Sword had just as much ridiculous hand holding as Dream Team.

@Chozofication: "I can't speak about ALBW but Aonuma has acknowledged how bad Skyward Sword was"

Lol, when did he do that?

#48 Posted by MirkoS77 (7016 posts) -

This is the reason I seldom play Nintendo games anymore. They're downright insulting, and if I'm not be handheld it really doesn't matter as the difficulty is laughable.

The Nintendo of today under Iwata and co is not the same as it once was. Their entire focus has shifted, and this is merely a consequence of that direction. Perhaps they will lighten up a bit, but that wouldn't be good enough because they need to lighten up a TON.

I'm still keeping tabs on their games in the hope that they'll stop taking us for imbeciles that can't figure out that a key fits into a lock. Until then, my money's elsewhere.

This is precisely why I despise Iwata so much. He is the man that came out saying the reason games sales suffer is due to difficulty, so in-turn he destroys otherwise good games with infant padding and patronizing.

Get that man the fuck out of there, ASAP. His philosophy towards what makes an game so enjoyable is wrong. He's intentionally compromising games for the sake of sales.

I don't see how any gamer thinks he's good for us.

#49 Posted by Glutenbob (231 posts) -

I definitely agree. Nintendo needs to stop the handholding and the horrible conversations with NPCs. They repeat the same nonsense over and over in their games, and the tutorials are painful.

One of the reasons I am contemplating selling my WIi U and 3DS. Nintendo is just not the same