"Apple TV is going to kill consoles"

Or...is it?

Toucharcade, talking to developers of Apple TV Apps, is saying that on a good day, they might make $100. Compared with the creme of the crop on traditional mobile platforms where they can easily do many, many hundreds of times that.

a quick browse through GAF will give several suggestions for why this is. Low download caps, the fact every game needs to be able to work with the Siri Remote. The lack of advertising the device on Apple's part.

For my part, I think the reasoning is part that, part something far more simple.

It's really impossible to argue that Mobile Gaming is a giant force, at least when it comes to grabbing the casual crowd. The blue ocean doesn't exist anymore like it did in the Wii days. It's owned by Apple with a small bay somewhere that flies the Samsung flag. But it worked where others haven't because of the nature of mobile.

People don't buy phones because they can play games. They buy phones to have that indispensable social tool, and they happen to be able to play games. The phone is the vehicle, and once it's in the hand, it's a "Might as well" reaction. Gaming is not the causation of the purchase, the tool is.

Comparatively, a smart-box is a far less necessary device for existing in 2015. Any TV less than a few years old has that internet/netflix capability built in. Should it not stretch quite far enough, well then people can get another device like a Chromecast, with is $50 on a bad day. Or they already own such a device, possibly the last version of the Apple TV. I love mine for making it easy to airplay youtube before bed.

The fact remains, while a phone is a needed tool, a Smart TV box doesn't and never could enjoy the same kind of ubiquity, particularly while TVs themselves continue to come with comparative software.

The customer is either going to care about games, in which case they have plenty of other devices, from Tablets to traditional games systems, right down to the phone they have in their pocket already, or they don't, and the fact that it can play games isn't even on the radar.

It's notable that this isn't the only app store venture that's failed to pick up steam. Both the Mac app store and Apple Watch store have struggled significantly as well.

So, what are your thoughts, Gamespot. Is gaming on a smartbox simply stymied by the nature of the device, or has Apple just not done enough for it? Sound off, or call me names, whatever. Hi Mac.

Problem is gaming quality, no matter what games Apple tried to show off, like Guitar Hero Live, people expect to buy games through their App Store is now below $5 and nothing higher. Apple has created a huge software quality control problem when game developers cannot make extra profits with such a bummer app store that's full of free to play to cheap games.

Hey, @darkspineslayer.

First and foremost, let's not get too ahead of ourselves. I read that same article, and the author was wise to say that same thing. The Apple TV has been available for a matter of weeks (not even months), and it's a young platform. It's a completely new platform, so I hesitate to make any judgement calls about its ability to succeed in the market right now.

A few things that disappointed me: 1. All apps (games included) need to be compatible with the Apple TV controller - That's an unfortunate but understandable decision. And even still, it doesn't seem to have affected the ability of developers to create high-quality gaming experiences (see below), 2. There weren't more games available at launch - This is also understandable because Apple isn't positioning this as a console killer, but for some folks like myself, it would have been nice to see more at launch (perhaps one shooter), 3. Developers don't seem to be making a lot from Apple TV apps yet - But again, this platform has only been available for a matter of weeks and the holiday season is yet to come, so I'm choosing to be cognizant of those facts.

You're spot-on regarding the Mac App Store. It seems like a forgotten relic on my iMac, because I don't often look there for games, software, or system utilities. On my iPhone, I visit the App Store almost every day for updates, new releases, and just out of curiosity. The Mac App Store is stale by comparison. As for the Apple Watch, it's also a young platform and only recently have developers been given access to installing their software directly on the Watch itself. It's a very first-gen platform (like the original iPhone and iPad were). We'll see what happens next year (reports are that a March 2016 event is slated to launch a new Apple Watch and potentially a new 4" iPhone w/A9).

As for what excites me about the new Apple TV, I first have to address @FireEmblem_Man (who is foolishly criticizing Apple's App Store offerings while singing the praises of Windows Mobile...) --

You know not of what you speak, sir. Allow me to show you some first generation Apple TV games currently available:

That's not bad at all. All of these represent high-quality experiences, and truth be told, I'm not sure how the heck you'd play this with the Apple TV 4 remote (hehe). So that's why I'm excited, @darkspineslayer, because it is indeed possible to create high-quality experiences on the Apple TV. And many of the games available have multiple versions across the Apple ecosystem (iPad, iPhone, Apple TV) that allow me to pick up and play wherever I am, and continue when I get home.

Last question: Can you attribute the quote to someone? Did a pundit on the Internet say that, or did I say that somewhere? If you're going to put a phrase in quotes, it's just good practice to say where it came from. Lest we all assume you just made it up for the convenience of your post here.

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Bonus notes: I'd never use any of the smart TV built-in apps when it's easy to get an inexpensive box like an Apple TV (3rd gen, of which we have 2) that enjoys far better software support (in the way of upgrades and flexibility with things like AirPlay).

@musicalmac: You only listed like 5 games, but they're not very appealing titles. Majority of the audience won't buy them over $20 if there are more free 2 play games. Like I said, it's an entire problem of games, as well as a lack of games being utilize with the wannabe wiimote.

Your reply was so quick, it's really obvious that you took the time to actually look at those games. You're also getting better and better at making assumptions that have literally no meaning whatsoever.

Side note: Are any of those available on Windows phones? The app store that you can browse via your computer doesn't even have a specific search function that I could find. I mean, if you think those games are terrible, and that there's nothing but crap on Apple's App Stores, you must really, really hate the app store for Windows phones.

@musicalmac: We're talking about Apple TV, not Windows Phone, you're starting to use a fallacy in your argument? If you want to make a comparison for the living, why not bring the Xbox One into this conversation? Yeah, this is one argument you can't win

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Doesn't every game have to be compatible with the remote?

Surely they would have to gimp most the games that get released on apple tv

Yes, and it was one of the disappointments I listed above. But you can also see that it hasn't caused too much of a problem for some developers (also, see above for gameplay examples).

@musicalmac: its a big mistake I think, there is no denying if games were designed around the horipad they would have much more potential

Right, but like I said, it doesn't seem like it's stopped developers from making some high-quality titles.

I honestly think that developers will find clever ways around that requirement. Particularly for games like shooters, they'll make a mode that works with the remote, but that's really meant to be played with a controller.

I get developers have a done a good job working around the control method, was just saying they shouldn't have to and if the platform has lower sales it wont be worth the extra effort by the developers

Yeah, the thing is garbage. I remember some fool saying it would be a great compliment to PC, and nothing else may be necessary.

@darkspineslayer: The data found here paints a far rosier picture of the Apple TV app store and the rapid growth of the platform. Let's look at some highlights from this data driven analysis.

There are currently 2,624 apps available for download in the Apple TV App Store. That’s quite a number considering the store is just about a month old. With a pretty steady rate of growth so far, we estimate the store will be hitting 5,000 apps in about a month and 10,000 apps in early 2016.

Let’s take a closer look at the category make up. A common question is which category is the largest? If you’re thinking games you’re not wrong! The Games category is the single largest category on the Apple TV App Store with 1,002 apps. This means Games make up roughly 38% of all Apple TV apps.

So within a month of availability, the game selection on the Apple TV is already over 1k. We've already seen (from my video links above) that there are indeed quality offerings. Keep in mind again, we're very, very early in the life of the new Apple TV, but these are promising numbers. To finish up, the highlights--

Highlights

• There are 2,624 apps on the Apple TV App Store.
• An average of 447 new apps are added to the store every week.
• 38% of all apps are games.
• The categories with the most apps are: Games, Entertainment, and Education.
• There are more than 20 categories apps can be submitted to but only 7 are currently visible.
• 61% of all apps are free
• 85% of paid apps cost between $0.99 and $2.99.
• Entertainment apps dominate the top charts (28 of the Top 50).
• Only 8 of the top 50 apps are games.

So again, the TouchArcade article touches on a few points that are worth noting, but so much that we should allow it to shape our opinions of the Apple TV - yet. But these conclusions are promising. It certainly isn't something we can compare to the languishing Mac App Store.

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Bonus material: The article touches on the exact thing I mentioned previously, which is in regards to the upcoming holiday season.

While the Apple TV is still fairly small, it’s showing great signs of growth and with the holidays coming up has the potential to turn into a more substantial revenue source for developers very soon. We’ll be keeping an eye on the new store and will put out an updated analysis in the new year that looks at growth, so stay tuned and join the mailing list to be the first to know about it.

It's also worth remembering that Apple customers tend to have more disposable income and are more willing to spend money on apps (evidenced by how many more billions Apple has paid out to developers than other mobile app store offerings). Yet another consideration before we grab the nails for the Apple TV's coffin.

For your enjoyment, here's a list of some other high-quality experiences already available on Apple's very young platform–

Asphalt 8 (racing)

Afterpulse (shooter)

Beach Buggy Racing (cart racing)

SketchParty TV (party game)

Lumino City (puzzle)

Shadowmatic (puzzle)

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All in all, not bad for only being available for a few weeks. It's only going to get better. These are all first-round games.

Those look terrible lol

@Blabadon: A lot of memorable games looked terrible. At least Apple is making headway. Where's Androids solution, and how is gaming working out on the platform? Can a Samsung Galaxy phone play a bluetooth multiplayer game with an HTC tablet yet? Mm... Didn't think so,

@mister-man: who gives a shit, Android and mobile gaming sucks in general.

@Blabadon: And your opinion of the state of mobile gaming ironically isn't supported by facts. There's an exponential amount of revenue streaming through Apples mobile gaming ecosystem that utterly dwarfs what Nintendo and Sony make with their own respective handhelds on a good year combined, Many more titles. Say what you will about gaming on smartphones and tablets, but we've already reached a level of sophistication on these platforms that far surpasses what we've grown used to on handhelds. This is driven by the myriad of intuitive, novel, and/or traditional control options coupled with more capable hardware that also functions as a pocket video camera, phone, internet and productive device.

You're just mad that Android never achieved what so many fandroids swore would happen. Surpass Apple in the gaming department by being a more capable platform that "did more." Yet ironically, most those devices can't even communicate seamlessly with most other android devices. What kind of a "universal platform" is Android where this can't be?

Boo to the Hoo.

@mister-man: bruh, it's my birthday. Go get laid, stop the fanboy bullshit, enjoy your life outside of your strawmen arguments you put up.

So I'm happy to say that I've acquired a new 64gb Apple TV 4 and a Nimbus (Steel Series) controller. As it turns out, I already owned 20 games that were compatible with the Apple TV. Some feel very polished and a coupe feel like hasty ports, but still play well.

Overall, there's a lot of potential. It was fun to launch Transistor and watch the game load up the last checkpoint I had reached on my phone. This experience was repeated across a few other titles, as well.

Really looking forward to seeing more games hit the platform in 2016.

Another update: There are a few standouts that transitioned well to Apple's very young new platform.

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Xibalba is a short, Doom style shooter with tight, responsive controls and plenty of challenge.

Asphalt 8 kept me up until 1:30AM CST last night. It's gorgeous and plays beautifully.

Dynamite Jack is a top-down stealth action game with plenty of challenge and a nearly endless supply of maps.

Geometry Wars 3 is Geometry Wars 3 and is just as good as you would expect.

Transistor is Transistor and is as good as you'd expect.

Phoenix HD is an outstanding bullet hell game with multiple ships, weapon upgrades, special attacks, and all the other stuff that makes those games so good.

Shadowmatic is a great example of why the new remote is excellent. It plays beautifully.

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So that's just what I've been playing so far. I'm looking forward to trying some other games, particularly Oceanhorn (Zelda without Zelda). I'd also like to try out Zenowerk but the developers annoyingly didn't make it a universal app (the only one I've seen so far with that issue).

Games I'd like to see make their way to Apple TV:

- Hearthstone, Ascension, Magic Duels, and all the other great card games

- Sports games like FIFA

- Elder scrolls style games like Ravensword

- More good shooters, like NOVA 3

- Mining games like Terraria and Miners of Mars

- A few good MMO style games

Even though these are things I want to see, there's still plenty going on right now. It's very exciting.

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Bonus: So many games offer split screen as well, and it really elevates the good times. And almost all of the universal apps utilize iCloud for game saves. It's very satisfying.

Buy a game on an iPhone, you can play it on an iPad or Apple TV.

Buy s game on an Android phone, you'd be lucky if you could even play the same game on a different Android phone.

As someone who transitioned from a Note 3 to an S6 Edge, that's not true at all.

Hearing there's split screen in Apple TV is dope, not gonna lie.

neither .. mobile gaming is not gaming