Youtube copyright cracking down on gamers

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#1 Edited by HipHopBeats (2699 posts) -

Youtube's new content ID copyright claims are cracking down on gamers posting reviews and let's plays. Seems some devs are siding with gamers.

Angry Joe breakdown of what's happening.

Basically youtube, some devs and record labels are claiming copyrights on any music and game footage used wanting 100% profit from views to go to devs and record labels to supposedly avoid future lawsuits, even if the video is promoting their games. These copyright claims are getting ridiculous.

#2 Edited by foxhound_fox (90307 posts) -

And this is why copyright law needs, NEEDS reformation to take into account the internet.

#3 Posted by HipHopBeats (2699 posts) -

In the end, if they don't ease up on this copyright nonsense, this will eventually backfire on devs, the RIAA and the movie industry. They're so caught up in politics, they all forget the consumer and fans are who ultimately gave them their shine. WIthout people actually spending money, they're all nothing. Especially youtube trying to force feed users with that Google Plus bullshit nobody wants.

#4 Posted by Threesixtyci (4299 posts) -

Y-tube Groups were supposed to monitor themselves, but since they weren't doing that Google is scanning everyone with their automated system. And this carpet bombing attack is the results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUQXR8pItAoKDAJSbphFxbrg

#5 Posted by slipknot0129 (5506 posts) -

Its not stopping them from putting those videos up, they just wont get money for that video. I'd imagine it wont effect me much. I can just type in whatever gameplay footage I want to watch. It sucks but theres not much you can do.

#6 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

#7 Edited by Jacanuk (5482 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Yep that is true and thats also why a lot of publishers/developers are helping out those who are getting hit by it.

Also a lot of the claims are from 3rd party rights owners.

#8 Edited by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Yep that is true and thats also why a lot of publishers/developers are helping out those who are getting hit by it.

Also a lot of the claims are from 3rd party rights owners.

Not only from 3rd party rights owners, but people who don't even own the rights to begin with. Youtube's Content ID system in its current form is too inaccurate and exploitable. It's in serious need of an overhaul.

More evidence of such: Jonathon Blow, the creator of Braid, had his recent gameplay video of The Witness flagged by the system. You know, video of a game that he is currently developing, and thus has the rights to show as much of it as he wants. What a mess.

#9 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

@1PMrFister said:

Not only from 3rd party rights owners, but people who don't even own the rights to begin with. Youtube's Content ID system in its current form is too inaccurate and exploitable. It's in serious need of an overhaul.

Eh, don't hold your breath: my channel was banned back in 2010 for a 15 seconds AVGN clip. It seems to have remained the same in these last few years, if not worse.

#10 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00: I wasn't. In fact, I hear that Youtube's going to start coming down even harder on videos with copyrighted information in them starting next year. This is going to get way worse before it gets better.

#11 Posted by HipHopBeats (2699 posts) -

@1PMrFister said:

@Jacanuk said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Yep that is true and thats also why a lot of publishers/developers are helping out those who are getting hit by it.

Also a lot of the claims are from 3rd party rights owners.

Not only from 3rd party rights owners, but people who don't even own the rights to begin with. Youtube's Content ID system in its current form is too inaccurate and exploitable. It's in serious need of an overhaul.

More evidence of such: Jonathon Blow, the creator of Braid, had his recent gameplay video of The Witness flagged by the system. You know, video of a game that he is currently developing, and thus has the rights to show as much of it as he wants. What a mess.

Unfortunately, It makes room for a lot of troll flagging. The thing is, even if everything went to another site, eventually it would still be the same thing. It's going to take decrease in revenue for youtube and these devs to wake up and cut the crap. No video should be flagged for promoting a game in a good light.

#12 Edited by Jacanuk (5482 posts) -

@1PMrFister said:

@Jacanuk said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Yep that is true and thats also why a lot of publishers/developers are helping out those who are getting hit by it.

Also a lot of the claims are from 3rd party rights owners.

Not only from 3rd party rights owners, but people who don't even own the rights to begin with. Youtube's Content ID system in its current form is too inaccurate and exploitable. It's in serious need of an overhaul.

More evidence of such: Jonathon Blow, the creator of Braid, had his recent gameplay video of The Witness flagged by the system. You know, video of a game that he is currently developing, and thus has the rights to show as much of it as he wants. What a mess.

lol ok i haven't heard that but ya the automated flagging system is pretty messed up.

Its pretty bad in some cases but that one is one of the worst i have heard, Sony flagged the developer for posting videos of his own game.

#13 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@HipHopBeats: Yeah, Tumblr has a similar problem. It uses an automated system for reporting blogs that abuse the ToS, but the problem is it automatically deletes sites if it gets too many reports. Thus, you get instances of trolls spamming fake reports to get sites they don't like deleted. I remember a lot of blogs getting taken down en masse earlier this year, but nothing ever came of it. It's probably going to take a lot more videos getting unfairly flagged before Youtube pays attention, and probably even more before they do something about it.

#14 Posted by bowchicka07 (1104 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Does that include any videos with any gameplay footage like walkthrough, cheats and achievement guides?

#15 Edited by The_Last_Ride (74016 posts) -

yeah two of my videos have been flagged aswell unfortunately

#16 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

@bowchicka07 said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Makes no sense to crack down on gaming videos as though they were movies or music: watching a gameplay video only makes you want to play the game yourself (therefore buying it). It's free advertising, but of course it's hard to see that when one's head is firmly lodged in one's rectum.

Does that include any videos with any gameplay footage like walkthrough, cheats and achievement guides?

Anything with video or audio from anything that could possibly be copyrighted is viable to be flagged, even if the material is from a public trailer.

As I understand it, this doesn't affect your small to medium youtube channel at all, videos are not being taken down. This impacts people who are big enough to monetize their videos, in which case the money doesn't go to them anymore, but to the copyright holder, even if there's only a few seconds of copyrighted footage in the whole video, no matter how long it is.

The fact they can do this is conclusive evidence that "Fair Use" was never a law, but merely a "legal doctrine" with close to zero legal weight.

#17 Edited by platinumking320 (667 posts) -

@HipHopBeats: Finally! Somebody makes a post about this! I was wonderin' how this issue never popped up here.

#18 Posted by bezza2011 (2700 posts) -

All this is, is a desperate greedy chance for devs and music bosses but alot of devs have said to get in touch to sort this but at the same time YouTube is losing alot of reputation and if they dont sort this then they move away from it look at ustream and twitch now on ps4 they can do it

#19 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

Oh this is beautiful. Youtube has flagged Braid author Jonathan Blow's video about his own upcoming game The Witness, of which he is the sole copyright holder, but Youtube thought was owned by Sony.

Link

This is a majestic fuckup. That system is FUBAR

#20 Posted by platinumking320 (667 posts) -

I feel the core of this misunderstanding is the fat and happy who only see things through a proprietary perspective because financially they've won, and other common creators who like scientists understand that's it about more than profit, these works are built on basic knowledge that belongs to all mankind. The big wigs get to monitor us, collect data on us, we give our presences, they track and exploit our interests, but we don't get to put the same skew of criticism on their material.

It's like a coin with 'Ceasar's face stamped on it, or Christopher Columbus's flag on. How many of these publishers and music bosses served as exhausted programmers, directors, or struggling artists, musicians, and filmmakers? A lot of them are are just 'high rollers' gambling on the success of modern media, and pretending to cry foul when this material is used for other creative works.
Some lawyers say devs waive their rights allowing youtube gameplay footage. Well heck they'd probably argue modding is illegal, but studios who allow lets plays and mods know what they're doing, and I say this expansion of knowledge is very much helping keep part of the industry afloat, and that direct relationship has been for years.

#21 Posted by outworld222 (2495 posts) -

does this include walkthrough and guide videos?

#22 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@outworld222 said:

does this include walkthrough and guide videos?

If something in your video matches something on the Content ID system, it gets flagged. Doesn't matter what it's about anymore, or if you even have permission to use that material to begin with.

#23 Edited by Threesixtyci (4299 posts) -

I might be wrong, but I think those that don't have advertisement place holder in their vids are getting bypassed.

#24 Edited by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

@outworld222 said:

does this include walkthrough and guide videos?

Since nobody seems to want to give you and others a straight answer, I will.

Yes this does include walkthroughs and guide videos, let's plays and reviews and so forth.

#25 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -
@Black_Knight_00 said:

Oh this is beautiful. Youtube has flagged Braid author Jonathan Blow's video about his own upcoming game The Witness, of which he is the sole copyright holder, but Youtube thought was owned by Sony.

Link

This is a majestic fuckup. That system is FUBAR

It's weird to think that Sony would even care about the video even if they were the ones who owned it since, ya know, there's that "Share" button on their new controller and everything.

#26 Posted by touchscreenpad (220 posts) -

It would be great if it goes to that certain degree where it does backfire on them.

#27 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@touchscreenpad: Would be funny to see some official Youtube videos getting flagged by its own system. Talk about poetic justice.

#28 Edited by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Oh this is beautiful. Youtube has flagged Braid author Jonathan Blow's video about his own upcoming game The Witness, of which he is the sole copyright holder, but Youtube thought was owned by Sony.

Link

This is a majestic fuckup. That system is FUBAR

It's not just him. Multiple cases of people getting their content pulled despite the fact that they either created the content to begin with or have explicit permission to use it are sprouting up.

This thread on NeoGAF also confirms that Konami got hit with the same problem, as did NASA's official channel a few months back. NASA, a government organization of all things. This has gone past problematic and become outright farcical.

#29 Posted by platinumking320 (667 posts) -

@1PMrFister said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Oh this is beautiful. Youtube has flagged Braid author Jonathan Blow's video about his own upcoming game The Witness, of which he is the sole copyright holder, but Youtube thought was owned by Sony.

Link

This is a majestic fuckup. That system is FUBAR

It's not just him. Multiple cases of people getting their content pulled despite the fact that they either created the content to begin with or have explicit permission to use it are sprouting up.

This thread on NeoGAF also confirms that Konami got hit with the same problem, as did NASA's official channel a few months back. NASA, a government organization of all things. This has gone past problematic and become outright farcical.

See? This thing is a sensor bot just sniffing out stuff without the understanding of how the content was employed or of any relationship between the posters and the owner of detected content.

A person needs to submit a claim upon discovery, and things can be properly hashed out from there, and despite the legal and integrity debate sampling creations has been a part of our creative culture for at the very least 30 years now, and in the realm of game journalism or critical media this should be protected. Otherwise like Jim Sterling suggested, who can really shut down public claims of cronyism in future reviews of games if access becomes more limited to industry favored outlets, and meh' releases keep getting stellar reviews

#30 Posted by touchscreenpad (220 posts) -

@1PMrFister: I would love to see the look on their faces when that happens. :D

#31 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

Youtube came out with a letter addressed to content creators, trying to explain what's going on.

Their suggestion to gaming channels: "Turn off the game's music and use one of the tunes in our royalty-free library"

Isn't that great? Imagine a let's play for a Zelda game with this in the background.

#32 Posted by Jacanuk (5482 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

Youtube came out with a letter addressed to content creators, trying to explain what's going on.

Their suggestion to gaming channels: "Turn off the game's music and use one of the tunes in our royalty-free library"

Isn't that great? Imagine a let's play for a Zelda game with this in the background.

Ya, that is kinda a shitty response.

But what i think a lot of people seem to forget is that Google could potentially lose big on this if they can't prove they are doing something active to prevent it for happening, and if anyone remember the RIAA/Movie problem over the fact that anyone can pretty much use google to find any torrent they want, they know that Google doesn't care when they are on solid ground to refuse.

So yes a bunch of Let's players and mediocre youtubers who have decided they don't need a "real job" stand to lose out but honestly i don't see a problem, so what they can monetize what is basically other peoples work and earn cash on it, and so what.

That however doesn't mean there isn't a problem Because when the original owners also gets flagged for their own content by other companies, that is pretty messed up and proves that googles autoflag system need some work, but the last part is pretty easy to fix.

#33 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18923 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

So yes a bunch of Let's players and mediocre youtubers who have decided they don't need a "real job" stand to lose out but honestly i don't see a problem, so what they can monetize what is basically other peoples work and earn cash on it, and so what.

I know that's probably not what you mean, but I have never shared the negative sentiment towards youtube celebrities. The whole "get a real job" attitude smacks me of hypocrisy and jealousy. I am firmly convinced that out of 100 "real job" proponents, not even one would stick with his 9-5 given half the chance to make the same money by posting videos online from the comfort of his own home.

Not to mention shooting and editing videos is hard work: take Angry Joe, who has some of the best production values around, he invested a significant amount of money in cameras, lights and studio equipment, editing software, props, costumes and media licensing, plus the time it takes to shoot, edit, add special effects, plus script writing and rewriting, community management and flying around at his own expense to film interviews with developers.

There's a lot more to that job than people realize.