Why do people like Star Ocean?

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#1 Posted by Greyfeld (3006 posts) -

So, I like me some JRPGs. I've enjoyed most of the Final Fantasy games, oldschool Suikoden is awesome, Radiant Historia was a lot of fun, etc etc. But I can't, for the life of me, understand why people enjoy Star Ocean.

I bought Second Evolution for the PSP a couple years ago (that would be the PSP port of Second Story, for the uninitiated), and I couldn't get more than a couple hours in before turning off the game. It was mediocre combat meets contrived storytelling, wrapped up in painfully awkward dialogue.

So, why do people like this garbage?

#2 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

I liked Till The End Of Time back in the day. The Last Hope is a abomination. Never played the previous ones tho.

#3 Posted by spike6958 (4707 posts) -
Till the End of Time was one of my favorite games on PS2, I rented it so many times from my local Blockbuster because I couldn't find it anywhere to buy, and despite no one else ever renting it they would never let me just buy it despite asking them hundreds of times (probably because they knew they'd make more money out of me if I kept having to rent it). I never played the first two, and The Last Hope I couldn't get into, so I wouldn't exactly say I'm a fan of the series, but I'd love to play though Till the End of Time again one day (A HD remake would be nice Square-Enix :P).
#4 Posted by Byshop (11157 posts) -

The way I see it it's like the Tales games. The good ones in the series were REALLY good while the others are just "meh" if not actually bad. Although I've only played two games in this series, Till the End of Time was one of them and that game is fraking awesome. It's one of those "favorite games that I never beat" in my collection.

-Byshop

#5 Posted by GreySeal9 (24068 posts) -

The combat is why people like Star Ocean games. I don't know what you're smoking, but the combat in Second Story is great. Not to mention that Second Story has a robust item creation and skill system that people like to sink their teeth into. The world is also pretty interesting; there are alot of cool-looking towns and dungeons to explore.

Furthermore, you only got 2 hours in. That is hardly enough time to judge an RPG, especially since you haven't played enough to let the combat shine. Second Story is packed with a ton of exposition in the first couple hours, so I'm almost certain you haven't done very much fighting.

The storytelling is kind of weak and the dialogue can indeed be awkward, tho in these respects, it's no worse than alot of RPGs out there.

#6 Posted by Greyfeld (3006 posts) -
Putting aside my complaints about the combat system being mediocre (We're not going to convince each other about the other's argument that particular point), the entire point of an RPG is narrative and character development (regardless of how you feel about linear vs branching RPGs, they all at least have that much in common). If I'm going to play a game for its combat system, I'll play a game that was built specifically FOR its combat system. "The story sucks, and the characters are annoying, and the dialogue is horrible, but the combat is alright, so it's still a good RPG!!" just doesn't fly. If the parts of the game that actually makes it an RPG suck... then it's a suck RPG. There's nothing wrong with admitting you like a bad game. I like the Resident Evil movies, even though i know that they're horrible movies.
#7 Posted by DarthJohnova (4599 posts) -

I've never played a Star Ocean title but I've been told to avoid SO4 like the plague, so I'll probably try the next one depending on reception. Cba with past titles, I've got too much of a backlog already.

#8 Posted by Archangel3371 (15358 posts) -
I've played a few of them including The Last Hope and I really enjoyed them. I like the story, combat mechanics, and most of the other things you can do such as crafting etc. I really dig the overall themes in the game and they usually look pretty good with some interesting environments and enemies.
#9 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -
Second Story was awesome, great combat, decent exploration and dungeons, it was a great game all around. the combat, skills systems and all the role playing stuff you can do wandering around on your own was the core of the game.
#10 Posted by Threesixtyci (4283 posts) -
Star Ocean 2 is something like a 100 hour game. You can't really play only 2 hours of it and have it judged. Anyway, in SO2's case, how you play dictates what endings you get for each character. That would be the main draw.
#11 Posted by Jackc8 (8500 posts) -

I've had The Last Hope International on my Amazon wishlist for about 2 years now lol. The battle system looks decent I guess, and it's sci-fi and an RPG and I love those sorts of games. I just can't get past the characters though. I mean for chrissakes, they act like they're literally 5 years old and the dialogue is all sorts of atrocious. I'll NEVER understand why the Japanese do that with their games.

#12 Posted by Byshop (11157 posts) -

The combat is why people like Star Ocean games. I don't know what you're smoking, but the combat in Second Story is great. Not to mention that Second Story has a robust item creation and skill system that people like to sink their teeth into. The world is also pretty interesting; there are alot of cool-looking towns and dungeons to explore.

Furthermore, you only got 2 hours in. That is hardly enough time to judge an RPG, especially since you haven't played enough to let the combat shine. Second Story is packed with a ton of exposition in the first couple hours, so I'm almost certain you haven't done very much fighting.

The storytelling is kind of weak and the dialogue can indeed be awkward, tho in these respects, it's no worse than alot of RPGs out there.

GreySeal9

I blame the awesome item creation system as the reason why I haven't beated Till the End of Time. Everytime I got a news alert that some new invention had been patented and I would not be getting royalties for it I cursed the game so I basically stopped making forward progress to try to invent every possible item first.

-Byshop

#13 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

I felt like Til the End of Time was a great PS2 RPG. I haven't played the ones before it and The Last Hope didn't get enough time from me to form an opinion (I had to sell all my **** about two weeks after buying that game). I loved it for it's story, it just reasonated with me.

#14 Posted by Byshop (11157 posts) -

I felt like Til the End of Time was a great PS2 RPG. I haven't played the ones before it and The Last Hope didn't get enough time from me to form an opinion (I had to sell all my **** about two weeks after buying that game). I loved it for it's story, it just reasonated with me.

Yusuke420

Agreed. It was very "Star Trek" to me. :) For me it's certainly in my top 10 for PS2 RPGs, but not quite as good as Persona 3 and 4 which are my absolute favorites.

-Byshop

#15 Posted by GreySeal9 (24068 posts) -

Putting aside my complaints about the combat system being mediocre (We're not going to convince each other about the other's argument that particular point), the entire point of an RPG is narrative and character development (regardless of how you feel about linear vs branching RPGs, they all at least have that much in common). If I'm going to play a game for its combat system, I'll play a game that was built specifically FOR its combat system. "The story sucks, and the characters are annoying, and the dialogue is horrible, but the combat is alright, so it's still a good RPG!!" just doesn't fly. If the parts of the game that actually makes it an RPG suck... then it's a suck RPG. There's nothing wrong with admitting you like a bad game. I like the Resident Evil movies, even though i know that they're horrible movies.Greyfeld

I don't think the story or the characters suck tho. They're just not that great. The story is pretty standard fare; just decent enough to play through. Also, although the two main characters---Claude and Rena---are just your standard trite goody two-shoes heroes, some of the supporting characters are quite interesting, like Celine, Bowman, Opera or Ashton. But you didn't actually play enough to encounter any of these supporting characters, which is why your opinion of the characters really doesn't hold that much weight. It simply doesn't help your argument to admit that you only played the game for two hours. You haven't experienced enough of the story or characters to form a particularly credible opinion.

I'm not going to admit that I like a bad game because Star Ocean: The Second Story is not a bad game IMO. I'm not sure why you think that your opinion about the game should have any impact on mine.

#16 Posted by GreySeal9 (24068 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The combat is why people like Star Ocean games. I don't know what you're smoking, but the combat in Second Story is great. Not to mention that Second Story has a robust item creation and skill system that people like to sink their teeth into. The world is also pretty interesting; there are alot of cool-looking towns and dungeons to explore.

Furthermore, you only got 2 hours in. That is hardly enough time to judge an RPG, especially since you haven't played enough to let the combat shine. Second Story is packed with a ton of exposition in the first couple hours, so I'm almost certain you haven't done very much fighting.

The storytelling is kind of weak and the dialogue can indeed be awkward, tho in these respects, it's no worse than alot of RPGs out there.

Byshop

I blame the awesome item creation system as the reason why I haven't beated Till the End of Time. Everytime I got a news alert that some new invention had been patented and I would not be getting royalties for it I cursed the game so I basically stopped making forward progress to try to invent every possible item first.

-Byshop

It can definitely become a distraction.

#17 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

I felt like Til the End of Time was a great PS2 RPG. I haven't played the ones before it and The Last Hope didn't get enough time from me to form an opinion (I had to sell all my **** about two weeks after buying that game). I loved it for it's story, it just reasonated with me.

Byshop

Agreed. It was very "Star Trek" to me. :) For me it's certainly in my top 10 for PS2 RPGs, but not quite as good as Persona 3 and 4 which are my absolute favorites.

-Byshop

You must be my long lost twin :D

#18 Posted by svaubel (2444 posts) -

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

I cant give a real opionion of the games though as I havent played one for more than five hours.

#19 Posted by Greyfeld (3006 posts) -

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

I cant give a real opionion of the games though as I havent played one for more than five hours.

svaubel

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

#20 Posted by GreekGameManiac (6439 posts) -

Play the original,and Till the End of Time,and you'll see why.

#21 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

[QUOTE="svaubel"]

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

I cant give a real opionion of the games though as I havent played one for more than five hours.

Greyfeld

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

I disagree, games like Disgaea and Dragon Quest VIII take time to get going not because of poor pacing, but because they are such massive games in both size and content. Would you say that someone who played Skyrim for two hour would have a grasp on the entire game?

#22 Posted by xWoW_Rougex (2755 posts) -

I think the PS3 Star Ocean is one of the best jrpgs this generation. It's one of the very few that actually stays true to the jrpg formula we actually ****** loved during the ps1 and ps2 era.

Valkyria Chronicles, Dark Souls, FF13, yeah yeah, sure they're "classified" as jrpgs but they're not the kind of jrpgs that we actually used to mean when we talked about jrpgs (which is like Rogue Galaxy, FF10, Chronor Trigger, Dragon Quest etc...) so those don't really count. I mean, Valkyria Chronicles is a good game but when I ask for jrpgs, this is not the kind of game I actually ask for.

Sure, the story sucks, the characters and the theme about friendship sucks crap but it features the typical jrpg atmosphere, with a semi-open environment, many different environment, side quests, towns with talkable npcs etc...

#23 Posted by Allicrombie (25128 posts) -
I loved The Second Story, played it way back on PSOne.
#24 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18279 posts) -
I bought The Last Hope on 360 and it was a pain in the neck to play. Completely unrelatable character, dull story and boring mechanics. Pity, since I seem to remember enjoying the second game, on PS1
#25 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

I bought The Last Hope on 360 and it was a pain in the neck to play. Completely unrelatable character, dull story and boring mechanics. Pity, since I seem to remember enjoying the second game, on PS1Black_Knight_00

I agree. I found The Last Hope to be one of those games that you have to grit your teeth through. It's decent enough on its own, but it's not that good of an RPG. I'll say this about The Last Hope though; anyone who gets all the trophies/achievements can be pretty much be called a God. I don't think I'll EVER 1000 that game and earn all the achievements. Way too much grinding to be had!

#26 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18279 posts) -

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I bought The Last Hope on 360 and it was a pain in the neck to play. Completely unrelatable character, dull story and boring mechanics. Pity, since I seem to remember enjoying the second game, on PS1Metamania

I agree. I found The Last Hope to be one of those games that you have to grit your teeth through. It's decent enough on its own, but it's not that good of an RPG. I'll say this about The Last Hope though; anyone who gets all the trophies/achievements can be pretty much be called a God. I don't think I'll EVER 1000 that game and earn all the achievements. Way too much grinding to be had!

Anyone who gets all the achievements can be called an ubernerd, more like.

#27 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I bought The Last Hope on 360 and it was a pain in the neck to play. Completely unrelatable character, dull story and boring mechanics. Pity, since I seem to remember enjoying the second game, on PS1Black_Knight_00

I agree. I found The Last Hope to be one of those games that you have to grit your teeth through. It's decent enough on its own, but it's not that good of an RPG. I'll say this about The Last Hope though; anyone who gets all the trophies/achievements can be pretty much be called a God. I don't think I'll EVER 1000 that game and earn all the achievements. Way too much grinding to be had!

Anyone who gets all the achievements can be called an ubernerd, more like.

A new, strange, but effective term for anyone who accomplishes that feat, if ever. I would think the most diehard Star Ocean fan would do that...speaking of Star Ocean, didn't Square Enix recently tease a new Star Ocean with a countdown for a new website?

#28 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18279 posts) -

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

I agree. I found The Last Hope to be one of those games that you have to grit your teeth through. It's decent enough on its own, but it's not that good of an RPG. I'll say this about The Last Hope though; anyone who gets all the trophies/achievements can be pretty much be called a God. I don't think I'll EVER 1000 that game and earn all the achievements. Way too much grinding to be had!

Metamania

Anyone who gets all the achievements can be called an ubernerd, more like.

A new, strange, but effective term for anyone who accomplishes that feat, if ever. I would think the most diehard Star Ocean fan would do that...speaking of Star Ocean, didn't Square Enix recently tease a new Star Ocean with a countdown for a new website?

They did. The question now is if anyone will care
#29 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

Anyone who gets all the achievements can be called an ubernerd, more like.

Black_Knight_00

A new, strange, but effective term for anyone who accomplishes that feat, if ever. I would think the most diehard Star Ocean fan would do that...speaking of Star Ocean, didn't Square Enix recently tease a new Star Ocean with a countdown for a new website?

They did. The question now is if anyone will care

Only people I see that would care is the Star Ocean fanatics. That's about it though. :P

#30 Posted by istuffedsunny (6981 posts) -

I really gave SO4 a chance but like 5 hours into it I realized I still don't care for a single character and the battle system wasn't getting any less obtuse. Later I find out about the plot twist near the end of SO3, which pretty much destroyed any chance of me ever picking up another SO game, since they're all related.

(---------------------SPOILER---------------------) The Star Ocean universe isn't "real," it's all virtual reality. So you play a guy who's playing a videogame, or something like that. (---------------------END SPOILER---------------------)

#31 Posted by Ish_basic (3998 posts) -

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

Greyfeld

but in this case, the op is talking about character development and story. Can't really give a good assessment about either after only playing a couple hours.

Secondly, RPGs have always been built around some sort of system of progression. I know in some games the only thing that really changes as you level is stats, but in SO2, not only do you get more powers, but the abilities you already have evolve. You do need to give the games in this franchise a little time before you really see what the combat has to offer.

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

svaubel

with the AI, you really need to figure out roles for your companions and tweak the AI accordingly. The default settings will tend to be less than useful. Very simply you can go in and turn off certain spells and abilities and change the way the AI behaves (in SO2 there's a ton of options for ai behavior). Once you've done this, which takes all of five minutes, your characters can win battles without your help. A great example of this is the Bloody Armor/motormouth-healer group spec that will let you decimate any boss with ease.

#32 Posted by GreySeal9 (24068 posts) -

[QUOTE="svaubel"]

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

I cant give a real opionion of the games though as I havent played one for more than five hours.

Greyfeld

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

You were saying the game had crap characters when you hadn't played long enough to experience but a few of them.

#33 Posted by Kocelot (753 posts) -

played for an hour when I bought it back then.

GOt stuck for 2 hours with no idea where to go.

this was back when there was no GameFAQS, i think.

#34 Posted by Pvt_r3d (7896 posts) -
Space
#35 Posted by GeoffZak (3715 posts) -

Because it has a very fun, real-time battle system. (Similar to that of the Tales series.)

#36 Posted by edinsftw (4230 posts) -

Star Ocean is one of the few games on consoles i enjoyed from a japanese dev. The worlds were fun and interesting if not unique to explore and combat was great.

#37 Posted by Greyfeld (3006 posts) -

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

[QUOTE="svaubel"]

Ive tried getting into Star Ocean games several times and I cant for the life of me stick to them. I dont know what it is but it seems to boil down to the combat and how the AI controlled party members are as smart as a pile of bricks.

I cant give a real opionion of the games though as I havent played one for more than five hours.

GreySeal9

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

You were saying the game had crap characters when you hadn't played long enough to experience but a few of them.

So? Most Final Fantasy games hook you within the first hour on their characters and/or story. Mass Effect tosses you in the deep end immediately. Disgaea: Hour of Darkness gradually builds on its mechanics and story throughout the first few hours of the game, but the quirky characters and dialogue grab you right away.

Being an RPG is no excuse for the first five hours of a game being a total drag.

#38 Posted by svaubel (2444 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

Greyfeld

You were saying the game had crap characters when you hadn't played long enough to experience but a few of them.

So? Most Final Fantasy games hook you within the first hour on their characters and/or story. Mass Effect tosses you in the deep end immediately. Disgaea: Hour of Darkness gradually builds on its mechanics and story throughout the first few hours of the game, but the quirky characters and dialogue grab you right away.

Being an RPG is no excuse for the first five hours of a game being a total drag.

This. If a game is going to take several hours to get interesting and worth playing then why should I waste my time by slogging through the crap to get to the good parts? I'm willing to give most games the benefit of the doubt or a second chance, but taking hours to finally hook the player is just bad design in my opinion.

#39 Posted by GreySeal9 (24068 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

See, I never understood this mindset. "You only played a game for 5 hours, your opinion is invalid!" If I have to play a game for a dozen hours before I hit the good part, then the developer failed at making a properly-paced game.

Greyfeld

You were saying the game had crap characters when you hadn't played long enough to experience but a few of them.

So? Most Final Fantasy games hook you within the first hour on their characters and/or story. Mass Effect tosses you in the deep end immediately. Disgaea: Hour of Darkness gradually builds on its mechanics and story throughout the first few hours of the game, but the quirky characters and dialogue grab you right away.

Being an RPG is no excuse for the first five hours of a game being a total drag.

It's fine if you lose interest and turn off the game. What I am saying is that your judgment of the characters is not credible if you didn't encounter but a few of them. This is not rocket science.

Also, you didn't even play the game for five hours. You played it for two. Five hours is quite a different story than two hours, atleast in the case of this game.

I will gladly admit that Star Ocean takes way too long to get started. That is one of the game's problems; its story is not paced well. But I'm not going to sugarcoat it: your critique in particular is not credible. That you actually thought that I'd somehow agree that I "like a bad game" based on your playtime of two hours when I played the whole game is beyond ridiculous.

Again, go ahead and have your own opinion, but don't expect it to in any way have any bearing on the opinions of people who have much more experience with the game than you do.