Which is a worse trend?

#1 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

Detective vision or making every single interactive object in an environment constantly flash and glow.

Detective vision applies some disgusting filter over the screen and generally interrupts gameplay, but it isn't on all the time. Glowing objects look like ass all the time yet doesn't interrupt gameplay.

I can't decide which I dislike more.

#2 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

Why don't you like either of those things ? And give a real gameplay reason not that ass filter crap.

#3 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: "Why don't you like either of those things?"

Because both look like complete ass and are lazy crutches for poor environment design.

"And give a real gameplay reason"

I don't have to. Them both making the game actively less enjoyable to play is enough. Detective vision in particular though has a tendency to halt the gameplay in order to have you slowly look around through an ugly filter. Which isn't fun.

#4 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu

I assume you've never bumped into a patroling guard by accident while going around a corner.

#5 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18277 posts) -

I hate that every game now seems to need that "see enemies through walls" crap. That needs to go.

#6 Posted by Gaming-Planet (13997 posts) -

To me they seem like handicaps for casual gamers.

#7 Edited by torenojohn7 (272 posts) -

Detective vision is worse because its a handholding gameplay element and really ruins the whole graphics of the game.

#8 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00

It will go when proper level design comes back. Seeing through walls is a necessity in most games because you'd keep getting spotted other wise since you have no other way of keeping an eye on the enemy or no gameplay mechanic that allows you to avoid detection seconds before getting spotted. Batman makes uses of all three, its got decent level design, xray vision to cover any blind spots and Quick Evasive mechanic to prevent surprize detection. I get that most people think this is hand holding but its not that simple, as I've recently found out playing Hitman and TLOU without seeing through walls.

#9 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Gaming-Planet

as I mention above its some times its a handicap for developement not for the noobs playing the game.

#10 Posted by Heirren (16537 posts) -

Those two things don't change a thing. You already know whats coming and when its coming in todays game design.

#11 Edited by illmatic87 (15156 posts) -

But plenty of games with glowing interactions actually avoid you spamming an interact button, since you know when to interact with something in a game with alot of natural objects/clutter. I dont mind it, it doesnt interrupt anything. But I think it should be more subtle than a glow shader, though. I generally like when games use natural lighting sources, or a subtle camera pan (that's not too intrusive) to naturally highlight a point of interest. I remember ICO doing this well back in the day when glowing stuff wernt a thing yet. Right now, it's either a placed glowy item. Or the old days of having a floating obvious spinning box thing that you walk over. I am pretty sure the latter is just as distracting and something we never really complained about when we were younger.

Agree with detective vision. But I like that it's there. But I think it should be a concentrated ability/power that you hold/channel, but at the expense of sacrificing mobility/combat/movement - it should be left as a scouting mechanic. I actually like how Skyrim does this with Detect Life, as with Deus Ex Human Revolution. It's a flash that drains a resource.

#12 Posted by Grieverr (2642 posts) -

I think both "features" suck equally. That was the biggest reason I stopped playing Arkham Asylum. I felt I was playing in detective mode more than I was without it. It really took a lot out of the game for me.

This is one of my complaints about today's graphics. Everything is a muted color, not allowing you to normally see things that you can interact with or points of interest without some sort of indicator. I liked how Mirror's Edge painted your path in red. Obviously every game can't do that, but I think some creative level design and color can be used to help a player out.

I also hate the seeing through walls thing. What happened to just creeping up to a corner and taking a peek?

#13 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16675 posts) -

Your threads are the worse trend.

#14 Posted by speedfreak48t5p (6936 posts) -
#15 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -
#16 Posted by Planeforger (15535 posts) -

If we're just talking about highlighting objects...I don't like either option.

I prefer what they use in most modern adventure games and old-school rpgs - a button that simply highlights objects that you can interact with. It's simple, it isn't ugly, and you don't need to use it.

Also, if a game requires all objects to glow so that the player can make them out, it sounds like a poorly designed game. There are plenty of ways of making objects stand out without breaking immersion.

#17 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16675 posts) -
#18 Posted by Minishdriveby (9738 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00

It will go when proper level design comes back. Seeing through walls is a necessity in most games because you'd keep getting spotted other wise since you have no other way of keeping an eye on the enemy or no gameplay mechanic that allows you to avoid detection seconds before getting spotted. Batman makes uses of all three, its got decent level design, xray vision to cover any blind spots and Quick Evasive mechanic to prevent surprize detection. I get that most people think this is hand holding but its not that simple, as I've recently found out playing Hitman and TLOU without seeing through walls.

I found TLOU to be better with the echo-location turned off. It made for a more tense environment, and crushing difficulty was all the better for it. TLOU didn't restart if you were spotted, it just changed the situation into combat with already limited resources.

#19 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@Minishdriveby

Sigh..... You people and and your "Tension", "Atmosphere" and your "Immersion".

Don't get me wrong I like these things too but it shouldn't be at the cost of proper game design.

#20 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18277 posts) -

I found TLOU to be better with the echo-location turned off. It made for a more tense environment, and crushing difficulty was all the better for it. TLOU didn't restart if you were spotted, it just changed the situation into combat with already limited resources.

Exactly. That game improves a lot without X-ray vision. You actually have to pay attention to your surroundings.

#21 Posted by MirkoS77 (7164 posts) -

For item highlights, I'm with illmatic87: spamming the interact button is no fun. I thought it'd be cool to have no item highlight in Thief 4...until I tried it. There has to be some form of differentiation as to what is useable and what isn't. I think TLoU did it well. Useable objects were rendered in such a way as to make them stand out just enough from the rest of the environments (but still missable), but not enough to be an eyesore.

As for detective vision, I have no problem with it because I can choose not to use it. The Arkham games I did so only when needed for story progression and riddles. Never used it in TLoU because the sound design was so well done, if you had a surround sound setup or were using a good set of headphones, that was all you needed to know where things were happening. However if it's there to compensate for poor design elsewhere and is required to progress, then yea I guess I have an issue with it.

#22 Edited by Minishdriveby (9738 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Minishdriveby

Sigh..... You people and and your "Tension", "Atmosphere" and your "Immersion".

Don't get me wrong I like these things too but it shouldn't be at the cost of proper game design.

If you're trying to make a game such as the last of us, something that merges the narrative with gameplay, you need to make sure that the gameplay invokes the feelings you want the player to have. In the case of the Last of Us, it's fear, tension, desperation, and brutality. I think the option to play without echo-location on creates more of that fear, tension, desperation, and brutality when entering combat/stealth scenarios. I think The Last of Us is one of the few times I got what the developer was trying to relay to the player emotionally while playing the game. If this is what they were striving for then I would say they were successful.

I reject the notion that there is a proper game design. Things ebb and flow into popularity within game design communities. The Last of Us goes against the grain in many design choices. It brings back non-regenerating health, and it works in favor of the game - it's a simple small mechanics like non-regenerating health that changes the emotions/atmosphere/immersion of the game.

#23 Posted by Blueresident87 (5336 posts) -

I don't mind the 'glow' effect on items/areas the player can interact with, but I do turn it off when that's an option.

As for detective/x-ray vision, I seriously dislike it. I don't mind it at all when it serves a function or makes sense within the scope of the story (Deus Ex, Batman) but I don't see the point in putting in a game for no reason.

#24 Posted by Archangel3371 (15358 posts) -

I like both features myself but I guess you could make them optional for those who don't want to use them.

#25 Posted by PapaTrop (483 posts) -

I don't mind either.

It'd just be nice if higher difficulty levels existed where objects either stop getting highlighted, or aren't as apparent. Perhaps a setting that could be turned off.

#26 Edited by TheDarkWolf86 (236 posts) -

I can understand your frustration...if you have any? I agree that a lot of games are going this route to make it easier for gamers. Ironically enough, The Last of Us...a game that I am currently playing again, allows the main character Joel to use a sensing ability to see "runners" and "clickers" throughout the game. At times, it helps...I will admit. But, like a lot of these types of games that use this mechanic, you do have the option to use it. If it was a mandatory feature, it could get annoying, especially if I don't want to use it. Others times, it is extremely helpful.

Regarding objects glowing while playing...I will use The Last of Us again, because this game uses this feature as well. Yes, items glow, but it is really not that distracting. I like to explore and press the triangle button every chance I get, but sometimes there is a random object I cannot find and having a feature that assists every so often is helpful. Again, I can understand your frustration...if any. But some games do take it too far with these features, and others don't use it enough.

#27 Edited by MirkoS77 (7164 posts) -

I can understand your frustration...if you have any? I agree that a lot of games are going this route to make it easier for gamers. Ironically enough, The Last of Us...a game that I am currently playing again, allows the main character Joel to use a sensing ability to see "runners" and "clickers" throughout the game. At times, it helps...I will admit. But, like a lot of these types of games that use this mechanic, you do have the option to use it. If it was a mandatory feature, it could get annoying, especially if I don't want to use it. Others times, it is extremely helpful.

You should really try to play it without the listen mode. It robs the game of a large part of what makes it so great: tension and unpredictability of not knowing where enemies are and makes you rely on listening and dependent on the exceptional sound design. Get a set of Sony Gold headphones, download the TLoU preset, and play with the 7.1 setting. Seriously, without the listen mode it's a much, much better experience.

#28 Posted by platinumking320 (666 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00: Yep. Splinter Cell copycats.

its like hmm I wonder what we used to do when we couldnt see through walls.

Oh THATS right. we used our EARS doy!

#29 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Minishdriveby said:

If you're trying to make a game such as the last of us, something that merges the narrative with gameplay, you need to make sure that the gameplay invokes the feelings you want the player to have. In the case of the Last of Us, it's fear, tension, desperation, and brutality.

And TLOU fails at all of those save for desperation, because that perfectly describes the feeling of playing through such a god awful tedious, boring, generic game. TLOU is shit. I hate that game.

#30 Posted by Minishdriveby (9738 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@Minishdriveby said:

If you're trying to make a game such as the last of us, something that merges the narrative with gameplay, you need to make sure that the gameplay invokes the feelings you want the player to have. In the case of the Last of Us, it's fear, tension, desperation, and brutality.

And TLOU fails at all of those save for desperation, because that perfectly describes the feeling of playing through such a god awful tedious, boring, generic game. TLOU is shit. I hate that game.

Okay.

#31 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

Okay.

I can't wait for everyone to forget about that garbage game and move on.

#32 Posted by Minishdriveby (9738 posts) -
@Pffrbt said:

@Minishdriveby said:

Okay.

I can't wait for everyone to forget about that garbage game and move on.


Your anticipation is palpable.

#33 Posted by TheDarkWolf86 (236 posts) -

I took what you said into consideration after reading your comments. I didn't buy a set of the Sony Gold headphones, but I didn't use the sensing ability as often I was before. It does give the game more tension. Thank you.

@MirkoS77 said:

@TheDarkWolf86 said:

I can understand your frustration...if you have any? I agree that a lot of games are going this route to make it easier for gamers. Ironically enough, The Last of Us...a game that I am currently playing again, allows the main character Joel to use a sensing ability to see "runners" and "clickers" throughout the game. At times, it helps...I will admit. But, like a lot of these types of games that use this mechanic, you do have the option to use it. If it was a mandatory feature, it could get annoying, especially if I don't want to use it. Others times, it is extremely helpful.

You should really try to play it without the listen mode. It robs the game of a large part of what makes it so great: tension and unpredictability of not knowing where enemies are and makes you rely on listening and dependent on the exceptional sound design. Get a set of Sony Gold headphones, download the TLoU preset, and play with the 7.1 setting. Seriously, without the listen mode it's a much, much better experience.

#34 Posted by MirkoS77 (7164 posts) -

I took what you said into consideration after reading your comments. I didn't buy a set of the Sony Gold headphones, but I didn't use the sensing ability as often I was before. It does give the game more tension. Thank you.

@MirkoS77 said:

@TheDarkWolf86 said:

I can understand your frustration...if you have any? I agree that a lot of games are going this route to make it easier for gamers. Ironically enough, The Last of Us...a game that I am currently playing again, allows the main character Joel to use a sensing ability to see "runners" and "clickers" throughout the game. At times, it helps...I will admit. But, like a lot of these types of games that use this mechanic, you do have the option to use it. If it was a mandatory feature, it could get annoying, especially if I don't want to use it. Others times, it is extremely helpful.

You should really try to play it without the listen mode. It robs the game of a large part of what makes it so great: tension and unpredictability of not knowing where enemies are and makes you rely on listening and dependent on the exceptional sound design. Get a set of Sony Gold headphones, download the TLoU preset, and play with the 7.1 setting. Seriously, without the listen mode it's a much, much better experience.

Good to hear. If you ever get a set of headphones with surround sound, it makes it even better.