What is it with this forum and RPGs?

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Hammerthrust

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#1 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

I just saw that my thread got locked and I am curious. What is it with this forum and RPGs? Am I not allowed to dislike RPGs? Because for a forum site that seems hellbent on tearing each other down because of their preferences, it's kind of weird that I can't bash RPGs. Are they part of an untouchable pantheon of holy gaming quality that I'm not allowed to make fun of?

My curiosity is just getting the better of me, again. I want to know why people are allowed to say that Dynasty Warriors sucks. I am well-aware of the hate that it gets, as it is one of my favourite series after all. But when I spread the truth about the insidious nature of RPGs, suddenly I'm being impolite and disrespectful of other people's tastes. So why do RPGs get such special treatment here.

Please feel free to clarify. Thank you all so much!

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#2 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

You completely misunderstood why your thread was locked. Your thread was locked because it is not a SW thread, and we don't let threads like that remain posted on the board for too long. I let your thread continue yesterday because you were generally polite. After 24 hours, roughly, I felt it was time to lock it and get it done with.

You are allowed to say RPGs suck. Again, that was not the issue pointed out in the older thread. The issue was with the broad stroke remarks made about RPG players- don't do that. No one will attack you personally for your preferences. Return that courtesy.

Feel free to criticize the games. Don't criticize the gamers.

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always_explicit

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#3  Edited By always_explicit
Member since 2007 • 3379 Posts

Because this is system wars not rpg or genre wars

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Dakur

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#4 Dakur
Member since 2014 • 3275 Posts

RPG fans > strategy fans > action-adventure fans > platformer fans > hack and slash fans > visual novel fans > racing fans > FPS fans > lems

That's the official hierarchy so be warned.

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Kruiz_Bathory

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#5 Kruiz_Bathory
Member since 2009 • 4765 Posts

Strategy (RTS) >>>>RPGs. But I play RPGs more.

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Hammerthrust

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#6 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@charizard1605: Perhaps you were misunderstanding my comment. I certainly am not so naive to think that every gamer who prefers RPGs is a pasty white nerd, but rather that the core mindset and design philosophy of RPGs as a whole attracts and caters to the ideologies of the pasty white nerd. You see, the way in which RPGs come together result in a combo that is every bit as appealing this archetype, but every bit as repulsive as they are to me. Very slow and drawn out, with lots of walking around, and leveling. That is the main issue I have with these sorts of games, leveling. Way to show one's skill or value in a video game, by levels. It's all about time commitment, it is such an inferior and meaningless metric of progress in a video game!

I am all about discussion and I would hate to see any bit of opinion or expression censored.

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Hammerthrust

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#7 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@dakur: What are "lems"? There's a PC game called Lemmings. Is that what they are? There's actually lemmings from that game that type on this forum?

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#8 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: Perhaps you were misunderstanding my comment. I certainly am not so naive to think that every gamer who prefers RPGs is a pasty white nerd, but rather that the core mindset and design philosophy of RPGs as a whole attracts and caters to the ideologies of the pasty white nerd. You see, the way in which RPGs come together result in a combo that is every bit as appealing this archetype, but every bit as repulsive as they are to me. Very slow and drawn out, with lots of walking around, and leveling. That is the main issue I have with these sorts of games, leveling. Way to show one's skill or value in a video game, by levels. It's all about time commitment, it is such an inferior and meaningless metric of progress in a video game!

I am all about discussion and I would hate to see any bit of opinion or expression censored.

Again, don't make remarks like 'pasty white nerd' or 'gay games.' If you do that, you will eventually be moderated. You can just say 'RPGs are not appealing to me' instead of saying 'RPGs are not appealing to me, but are appealing to pasty white nerds.'

That apart, you are free to discuss your opinion on the mechanics of RPGs, like you did just now. Go for it. I'm sure there will be other RPG fans who will tell you why they disagree with you. But they will do that without actively personally attacking you, or all players of the kinds of games you like. Return that favor.

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deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec

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#9 deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec
Member since 2016 • 6762 Posts

I think you might have the wrong idea. :(

As @charizard1605 pointed out, feel free to criticize something but be careful of the language you use toward the player-base, that's all. ;)

There are plenty of genuine criticisms to be made about RPGs that may or may not constitute the lack of enjoyment one gets from the genre. I'd be happy to have a discussion about that too as long as it remains respectful.

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always_explicit

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#10 always_explicit
Member since 2007 • 3379 Posts

whos alt is this

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Hammerthrust

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#11 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@charizard1605: Did it come across that way? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way!

So let me ask you this; if they don't appeal to pasty white nerds, who are they meant to appeal to then? Why wouldn't they just play a game like Call of Duty? That has leveling, I'm sure they'd like that!

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madrocketeer

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#12  Edited By madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

@hammerthrust:

Yeah, your thread isn't really System Wars material. Not enough arguments.

Oh, and this forum has nicknames for fans of each system:

Cows = Sony/PlayStation fans

Sheep = Nintendo fans

Lemmings = Microsoft/XBox fans

Hermits = PC gamers (e.g. yours truly)

Manticores = owners of all systems

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no-scope-AK47

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#13 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

The mods lock things based it seems on personal taste TC don't take it personal.

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Hammerthrust

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#14 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@madrocketeer: I'd guess I'd technically be classified as a manticore then? I have a PC and a PS4. No Xbox, no Nintendo. I've never owned an Xbox; I've always thought they were wannabe PCs that simply existed to bridge the gap between consoles and PC. No Nintendo either, not since the SNES days.

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bowserjr123

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#15 bowserjr123
Member since 2006 • 2478 Posts

People are allowed to say anything sucks on here, it's System Wars for a reason and it's a pretty cutthroat forum. Just try not to make generalizations of people that play specific games, I like RPGs myself and I wouldn't consider myself to be a "pasty white nerd."

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#16 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: Did it come across that way? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way!

So let me ask you this; if they don't appeal to pasty white nerds, who are they meant to appeal to then? Why wouldn't they just play a game like Call of Duty? That has leveling, I'm sure they'd like that!

Oh, man...

Why does 'pasty white nerds' have to be one group with uniform preferences? Why does the term 'pasty white nerds have so much judgement and contempt packed into it? Why can you not just say 'RPG fans'? Who says RPG fans do not necessarily enjoy Call of Duty, and/or some other non RPG game?

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Bread_or_Decide

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#17 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@dakur: What are "lems"? There's a PC game called Lemmings. Is that what they are? There's actually lemmings from that game that type on this forum?

I'm convinced you're a joke account....

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Archangel3371

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#18 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 43988 Posts

Hmm. Interesting. I love RPGs. I also love Call of Duty, Halo, Forza, Gears of War, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, etc., etc., etc. I wonder what that makes me?

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aigis

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#19 aigis
Member since 2015 • 7355 Posts

@hammerthrust: Nobody is saying that youre not allowed to dislike rpgs, just that you are wrong because rpgs are amazing

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Dakur

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#20 Dakur
Member since 2014 • 3275 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@dakur: What are "lems"? There's a PC game called Lemmings. Is that what they are? There's actually lemmings from that game that type on this forum?

xbox fans. Generally considered worst fanboys ever by the gaming community and they have bad taste in games and consoles. They are called lemmings because they follow the xbox towards the cliff without questioning and get owned by the fall. Any more questions about this issue ask me or any other of the resident manticores.

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#21 aigis
Member since 2015 • 7355 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: So let me ask you this; if they don't appeal to pasty white nerds, who are they meant to appeal to then?

Its like you are asking for char to ban you lol

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madrocketeer

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#22 madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

@hammerthrust:

Not really. Manticores own ALL the systems. Which one do you prefer, PS4 or PC?

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Hammerthrust

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#23 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@charizard1605: I'm just trying to figure out the purpose of the genre's existence. There is no contempt packed into my posts, but rather a passionate curiosity behind the nature of things existing in life. What is the target demographic and age group, and what kind of person would it appeal to? Because the essence of the genre's nature is there.

These are RPGs. Hence the name, Role-Playing Game. These games have roles, there is always a role you have to play. You can't just play a game, you have to play a role. Why would I want to play Harvest Moon and be some gardener? I have a beautiful garden in the back of my house that I attend to every day in the spring! I have issues in the real world that are more pertinent to the way in which I distribute my time commitment; the whole purpose of a role-playing game (RPG) is to maintain a setting that is parallel to the real world. So if you don't have a garden in real life to maintain, you can create one in an RPG and avoid the responsibilities of maintaining a garden in real life. The only thing that determines how good you are is your gardening level and your experience points. So if you have more experience points, that means you're better than me. Now that's a questionable philosophy if I've ever heard one!

I don't just hate games for no reason. I consider myself a well-seasoned gamer. I've played games in all shapes or sizes! I have enough experience with RPGs to know that I am not a fan of them, and they do not make worthy gameplay experiences. I played EverQuest for a year back in the day, and I had to stop because I hated what that game made me become. I was on the verge of getting fired from work, I was gaining weight so my wife was not attracted to me anymore...it was awful, and I didn't like what it turned my life into. I don't even consider RPGs proper video games in the same vein as a game like Mario or Mortal Kombat. To me, they are alternative realities. Designed to get you hooked and addicted, and nothing more.

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Hammerthrust

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#24 Hammerthrust
Member since 2017 • 139 Posts

@madrocketeer: It's tough, because they offer completely different experiences. For now though I'll have to go with PC.

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ni6htmare01

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#25 ni6htmare01
Member since 2005 • 3984 Posts

Isn't Dynasty Warrior has some type of RPG elements in it where your characters get level up and stronger and than later on you are some enough to beat Lu Bu??

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#26 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: I'm just trying to figure out the purpose of the genre's existence. There is no contempt packed into my posts, but rather a passionate curiosity behind the nature of things existing in life. What is the target demographic and age group, and what kind of person would it appeal to? Because the essence of the genre's nature is there.

These are RPGs. Hence the name, Role-Playing Game. These games have roles, there is always a role you have to play. You can't just play a game, you have to play a role. Why would I want to play Harvest Moon and be some gardener? I have a beautiful garden in the back of my house that I attend to every day in the spring! I have issues in the real world that are more pertinent to the way in which I distribute my time commitment; the whole purpose of a role-playing game (RPG) is to maintain a setting that is parallel to the real world. So if you don't have a garden in real life to maintain, you can create one in an RPG and avoid the responsibilities of maintaining a garden in real life. The only thing that determines how good you are is your gardening level and your experience points. So if you have more experience points, that means you're better than me. Now that's a questionable philosophy if I've ever heard one!

I don't just hate games for no reason. I consider myself a well-seasoned gamer. I've played games in all shapes or sizes! I have enough experience with RPGs to know that I am not a fan of them, and they do not make worthy gameplay experiences. I played EverQuest for a year back in the day, and I had to stop because I hated what that game made me become. I was on the verge of getting fired from work, I was gaining weight so my wife was not attracted to me anymore...it was awful, and I didn't like what it turned my life into. I don't even consider RPGs proper video games in the same vein as a game like Mario or Mortal Kombat. To me, they are alternative realities. Designed to get you hooked and addicted, and nothing more.

What is the reason for any genre's existence, really? What is the reason video games need to exist? Why does FIFA exist when you can play football for real? Why does Mortal Kombat exist when you can go beat the crap out of your friend for real? Why does Battlefield exist when you can become a soldier and engage in war for real?

Skyrim exists because I can't kill dragons for real. RPGs in general are games that have appeal because they are incredibly empowering to the player by way of player agency, have lots of replay value involved, and generally deliver some of the best narratives in gaming. It's not like RPGs universally don't involve skill, either- even turn based games have a unique set of puzzle like strategies that go into them, while more action based RPGs like Dark Souls require more player input finesse than almost any other game on the market.

RPGs are designed to do what games in general are designed to do- to engage players. With RPGs, developers get to create fresh worlds, and populate them with stories. That's why developers like making them. Players like them for reasons already listed above.

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Primorandomguy

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#27 Primorandomguy
Member since 2014 • 3368 Posts

I cannot believe people didn't catch on to this joke being an alt account or troll account from his first thread. This person is a moron, nothing to see here.

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Lucianu

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#28  Edited By Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: Did it come across that way? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way!

So let me ask you this; if they don't appeal to pasty white nerds, who are they meant to appeal to then? Why wouldn't they just play a game like Call of Duty? That has leveling, I'm sure they'd like that!

It's childish to insult people like that over what they play, apparently that's why your thread got locked. I would have done the same thing. Even though you're discussing stuff over the internet, you're still discussing with flesh and blood people, show the proper respect you'd show if you were face to face.

As for it not being SW material .. who cares? If it's a good discussion, bring it on. The other sub sections of the Gamespot Forums are dead, SW is the only one with any kind of traffic, and that's because a dozen or so older members are keeping it alive.

If the administrators gave a shit to properly manage the forums, they'd tightly unite the other sub sections so they wouldn't be so uselessly scattered around, amongst doing many other vital things that'd bring a shit ton of registered users.

For ****'s sake, i'd do it if they'd pay me. But no, they think they know what they're doing. They don't read shit, and they don't do the required management too sustain a good percentage of registrations.

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aigis

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#29 aigis
Member since 2015 • 7355 Posts

@hammerthrust: allow me to try and break this down:

  1. There are different types of rpgs, not all of them are farm simulators. Dark Souls, Persona, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, ect... Amazing games
  2. RPG's take too long is not an excuse, you dont have to beat it in a sitting. I play a lot of rpgs over a large course of time. If anything its economic
  3. RPG's dont have to parallel the real world and in most cases dont
  4. leveling adds progression, so you cant just stomp through a whole game
  5. just because you dont have self control doesnt make it so for everyone
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Howmakewood

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#30 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7693 Posts

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#31  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@howmakewood said:

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

I'm not even white

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#32 Flyincloud1116
Member since 2014 • 6418 Posts

9 out of 10 lemmings will agree with you.

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#33 ArchoNils2
Member since 2005 • 10534 Posts

@charizard1605: Why didn't you lock this thread already? Or moved it to "ask the Mods"?

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#34  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@ArchoNils2 said:

@charizard1605: Why didn't you lock this thread already? Or moved it to "ask the Mods"?

Because some kind souls are actually attempting to discuss the mechanics of RPGs in this thread

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#35 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

So as far as I can understand TC as some kind of trauma associated with RPGs, because at some point in his life he got addicted to one game of said genre. That's really the only thing I can get from is passive-aggressive approach. The best thing to do would be to just agree with him, close the topic and hope he doesn't open another one.

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#36 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20095 Posts

@always_explicit said:

whos alt is this

That's what I want to know lol

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deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec

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#37  Edited By deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec
Member since 2016 • 6762 Posts
@Zero_epyon said:
@always_explicit said:

whos alt is this

That's what I want to know lol

Yeah, if I was being cynical, I would be willing to assert that this guy is yanking our chains. :P

As for the topic though, the conversation of RPG leveling != skill has been a hot topic in the game design community for a good few years and some are of the belief that RPG leveling systems are not good game design. I believe a well designed roleplaying game will award skilled players to progress through challenges quicker on lower levels using tactics. Not only do they progress faster but also level faster. Grinding for levels acts as a safety net for less skilled players. Not every RPG is designed this way, however and sometimes it can be too difficult to progress without grinding.

The argument made that levels don't equate to skill is true, in my opinion but that is why in games like Pokemon, tournaments are held with Pokemon at the max level and it comes down to a player's knowledge of the mechanics (and meta game) to win. To be fair, I don't think the intention of any RPG leveling system was ever to define skill. Some would argue that this may lead to lazy tendencies of the player and that's also a possibility.

Pokemon is a good example of relying on a number of other mechanics that help a strategic player progress without having to out-level their opponent (Pokemon types for example).

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LordQuorthon

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#38 LordQuorthon
Member since 2008 • 5803 Posts

Your dumb threads get locked because you might as well say something like "I bet them jews play a lot of NSMB 2 cuz dey love dat money!!!!"

Stop being a dick. Go away. Nobody likes you.

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360ru13r

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#39 360ru13r
Member since 2008 • 1856 Posts

OP I have no idea what you said in your original topic on this genre but if you called RPG players out of there name and didn't try to be respectful of the play base then yeah that's why you got locked. It would be like me bashing eSports and calling the watchers a bunch of shiftless time wasters and the players of eSports controller athletes. Just be respectful of the audience who plays and enjoys the games. @hammerthrust

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deactivated-5c18005f903a1

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#40 deactivated-5c18005f903a1
Member since 2016 • 4626 Posts

'Why do people like things I don't?'

Because they do... done!

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#41 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23801 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@hammerthrust said:

@charizard1605: Did it come across that way? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way!

So let me ask you this; if they don't appeal to pasty white nerds, who are they meant to appeal to then? Why wouldn't they just play a game like Call of Duty? That has leveling, I'm sure they'd like that!

Oh, man...

Why does 'pasty white nerds' have to be one group with uniform preferences? Why does the term 'pasty white nerds have so much judgement and contempt packed into it? Why can you not just say 'RPG fans'? Who says RPG fans do not necessarily enjoy Call of Duty, and/or some other non RPG game?

Yeah, in fact. RPG fans often overlap with Strategy Game fans and Adventure Game fans.

Which is not surprising, since they often scratch similar itches.

Regarding levelling.

Levelling may just seem like empty time commitment. But in the end, a skilled player will level significantly faster than an unskilled one. Furthermore, levelling does not always mean grinding. Some games place you the player under a strict time limit, others have finite enemies.

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#42 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@hammerthrust: dude. It's not complicated. System Wars is a place to argue about SYSTEMS. Game discussions have become a big part of it too, but still in that context. Games are debated in this forum as a means of arguing over what platform is better than another (e.g., "Halo is the best [therefore systems without it aren't good enough]")

It is simply against the posting guidelines to engage in what we refer to as "fanboy wars". You don't like RPGs? No problem. But they exist on all platforms, making it a bad SW topic to begin with, and using gross generalizations about the people who DO like them doesn't help your case that the topic somehow belongs here.

Follow the posting guidelines, and you'll be fine. Step: read them. Step two: post the topics in their correct forum.

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Heil68

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#43 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60679 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@howmakewood said:

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

I'm not even white

lolz..Topic for next podcast!

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#44 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@Heil68 said:
@charizard1605 said:
@howmakewood said:

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

I'm not even white

lolz..Topic for next podcast!

Well that's like three episodes' worth of discussion material right there

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onesiphorus

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#45 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 5233 Posts

@madrocketeer said:

@hammerthrust:

Yeah, your thread isn't really System Wars material. Not enough arguments.

Oh, and this forum has nicknames for fans of each system:

Cows = Sony/PlayStation fans

Sheep = Nintendo fans

Lemmings = Microsoft/XBox fans

Hermits = PC gamers (e.g. yours truly)

Manticores = owners of all systems

It should be mentioned that these special terms are only allowed in System Wars. Anywhere in the GameStop forums is considered trolling, so do not use "sheep" to refer to Nintendo fans in the Nintendo Fan Club forum.

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R4gn4r0k

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#46 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 45983 Posts
@hammerthrust said:

I don't just hate games for no reason. I consider myself a well-seasoned gamer. I've played games in all shapes or sizes! I have enough experience with RPGs to know that I am not a fan of them, and they do not make worthy gameplay experiences. I played EverQuest for a year back in the day, and I had to stop because I hated what that game made me become. I was on the verge of getting fired from work, I was gaining weight so my wife was not attracted to me anymore...it was awful, and I didn't like what it turned my life into. I don't even consider RPGs proper video games in the same vein as a game like Mario or Mortal Kombat. To me, they are alternative realities. Designed to get you hooked and addicted, and nothing more.

Seems like a really personal reason to hate a genre.

But it's the same with people saying "Well, I didn't shoot him. It was the booze/drugs/bad childhood that made me do it"

Everquest never forced you to play it. The problem was with you and you didn't know how to indulge in a normal or responsible way.

If I just decide to sit in a couch all day and I die after a few days because I never left that couch to eat or drink... Was that really the couch that killed me ? Should it go to jail ?

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Zero_epyon

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#47 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20095 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@Heil68 said:
@charizard1605 said:
@howmakewood said:

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

I'm not even white

lolz..Topic for next podcast!

Well that's like three episodes' worth of discussion material right there

What are you if you don't mind me asking?

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kvally

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#48 kvally
Member since 2014 • 8445 Posts

@dakur said:

Kvally > lube free anal sex > RPG fans > strategy fans > action-adventure fans > platformer fans > hack and slash fans > visual novel fans > racing fans > FPS fans > lems

That's the official hierarchy so be warned.

Fixed

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#49 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:
@charizard1605 said:
@Heil68 said:
@charizard1605 said:
@howmakewood said:

I'm confused, why does it have to be white nerds? TC racist?

I'm not even white

lolz..Topic for next podcast!

Well that's like three episodes' worth of discussion material right there

What are you if you don't mind me asking?

Indian

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Zero_epyon

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#50 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20095 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@charizard1605 said:
@Heil68 said:
@charizard1605 said:

I'm not even white

lolz..Topic for next podcast!

Well that's like three episodes' worth of discussion material right there

What are you if you don't mind me asking?

Indian

Interesting....