What is Final Fantasy doing?

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#1 Posted by TaborhamLincoln (9 posts) -
Has anyone else noticed that Final Fantasy has lost almost everything that made it great? What happened to extremely unique characters with such diverse and unique personalities that you could become emotional attached with out ever hearing his/her voice. What about the turn based combat filled with strategy, timing, and planning? Final Fantasy has officially lost a fan since FF13. Just a super linear, boring and generic rpg with "final fantasy" stamped on it. Am i the only one out there? What will it take to bring them back to making classics like 6,7,8,9 and 10 again?
#2 Posted by killerbyt3 (0 posts) -
I couldn't agree with you more. Having FF7 and FF10 as my favorites, I completely understand where you were coming from. As soon as I heard that they were releasing an MMORPG with FFXI I became pretty upset. Like you said, it's the emotional attachment you gather with the characters through the intricate story line that made FF a 100+ hour game. By shifting their strategy from what they've been doing about 30 years to a crappy MMO, they had no chance. Don't even get me started as to why they decided to make ANOTHER MMO after FF11 failed...
#3 Posted by TaborhamLincoln (9 posts) -
Honestly you'd think that they would say "what are our best games? okay lets do that again." FF15 looks so boring to me. Don't get me wrong graphically its looks phenomenal but it's not Final Fantasy. I don't want to run around a house dodging bullets and some ghost thing while hacking and slashing a bunch of gun wielding grunts? and I'd bet most hardcore FF fans don't want to either lol
#4 Posted by Pixel-Perfect (5778 posts) -

Final Fantasy is dead to me. It has been ever since Uematsu and Sakaguchi left. I still partake in the occasional spin off though, Theatrhythm was exellent. That's mostly due to Uematsu's efforts of course.

 

#5 Posted by infektious94 (182 posts) -
Don't even get me started as to why they decided to make ANOTHER MMO after FF11 failed...killerbyt3
Yeeeaaahhhh. Actually... http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/25/final-fantasy-xi-the-most-profitable-in-the-franchise/
#6 Posted by wiouds (5520 posts) -

I did find good in FF13.

I found the story and character from FF13 to be good. They are way better than what is in ME2. The reason I bring of ME2 is that they both have the same theme but FF13 have better characters and story.

The combat in FF13 and FF12 were not the best in the franchise but they are still better than most of the WRPG out there. My heart stopped when they want to make the next final fantasy an action RPG. Action RPGs seem to be the game tyoe that have the most bad games out there. Other than Kingdom hearts they are normally bad. I found Dark Soul to be a tedious challenge.

I hate the new map system they use. They are just small fields with cliffs or tunnel. I want the old world map system back because that allow more a more real looking world.

 

#7 Posted by Eraldus (400 posts) -
[QUOTE="killerbyt3"]Don't even get me started as to why they decided to make ANOTHER MMO after FF11 failed...infektious94
Yeeeaaahhhh. Actually... http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/25/final-fantasy-xi-the-most-profitable-in-the-franchise/

Still doesn't change the fact that it blows up... Of course it's the most profitable FF ever... It's a friggin subscription-based MMO like WoW, so people have to pay way more for it than having to buy it in a one time only...
#8 Posted by garywood69 (157 posts) -

You took the words right outta my mouth dude. Especially when you say FF 6-10. Those games were just on a different level. It felt like the whole world just paid attention when a new one came out. It's hard to say where it all went wrong. I know it coincided roughly with Sakaguchi's departure but it's not entirely clear that was the cause. It seems more likely that it was the merger with Enix that did it- they just completely changed their ethos. They went from really caring about games to caring about graphics and number of spin-offs.

Even if they do make FF15 a technically brilliant game, which they're perfectly capable of doing, I guarantee it won't be the kind of game that hits people emotionally- the way my generation (born in the 80s) cherish 6,7 and chrono trigger. They just don't have that kind of skill anymore. You can tell from the trailers exactly what the characters are gonna be like. Hell, you can tell by just looking at their hairstyles. They're gonna moan about their feelings a lot and then a crystal is gonna do something pretty magical- that's all you need to know. And every time they use the words "dreams", "honor", "heart" they get deducted 0.1 from their metacritic average. If you can't create depth with normal language, you can't create depth.

#9 Posted by TaborhamLincoln (9 posts) -

I did find good in FF13.

I found the story and character from FF13 to be good. They are way better than what is in ME2. The reason I bring of ME2 is that they both have the same theme but FF13 have better characters and story.

The combat in FF13 and FF12 were not the best in the franchise but they are still better than most of the WRPG out there. My heart stopped when they want to make the next final fantasy an action RPG. Action RPGs seem to be the game tyoe that have the most bad games out there. Other than Kingdom hearts they are normally bad. I found Dark Soul to be a tedious challenge.

I hate the new map system they use. They are just small fields with cliffs or tunnel. I want the old world map system back because that allow more a more real looking world.

 

wiouds
yea the hilarious part to me is i agree that technically, on paper, FF13 was pretty good and I'm sure FF13-2 was ok (idk i never played it) but the core FF gameplay that all the diehard fans love wasn't there. I mean graphically and cinematically it was awesome but the fact that you only control one character in a battle immediately (too me) was a step backwards in what makes the combat so fun. I get that they wanted more action and stuff but i"m not sure hardcore fans did lol and an auto-attack button?... really? -.-
#10 Posted by wiouds (5520 posts) -

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

I did find good in FF13.

I found the story and character from FF13 to be good. They are way better than what is in ME2. The reason I bring of ME2 is that they both have the same theme but FF13 have better characters and story.

The combat in FF13 and FF12 were not the best in the franchise but they are still better than most of the WRPG out there. My heart stopped when they want to make the next final fantasy an action RPG. Action RPGs seem to be the game tyoe that have the most bad games out there. Other than Kingdom hearts they are normally bad. I found Dark Soul to be a tedious challenge.

I hate the new map system they use. They are just small fields with cliffs or tunnel. I want the old world map system back because that allow more a more real looking world.

 

TaborhamLincoln

yea the hilarious part to me is i agree that technically, on paper, FF13 was pretty good and I'm sure FF13-2 was ok (idk i never played it) but the core FF gameplay that all the diehard fans love wasn't there. I mean graphically and cinematically it was awesome but the fact that you only control one character in a battle immediately (too me) was a step backwards in what makes the combat so fun. I get that they wanted more action and stuff but i"m not sure hardcore fans did lol and an auto-attack button?... really? -.-

I was comparing FF12 and FF13's combat to the combat in games like Skyrim, Fallout, and etc.

#11 Posted by Havos (0 posts) -
Man, can you guys imagine how amazing it would be if they did a full-on remake of FF7, FF8, and FF9? I would spend so much money to buy those games.
#12 Posted by insanegame377 (392 posts) -

IMO every FF game after 10 has been really poor. The fact that XV is gonna essentially be a hack 'n' slash game is proof that Square Enix couldnt care less about the fans. FF13 was the worst in the series yet it is still being milked for what its worth. For me the franchise died a long time ago, and if this is the future of Final Fantasy, it may even be time to lay the series to rest completely.

#13 Posted by DeadSquirrelpie (9 posts) -
I thought 13 and 13-2 was night and day. They kept the tactical and versatile battle-system, and changed the story-structure. The characters were still a bit irritating in 13-2, but much less than in 13. Playing FF9 for the first time right now, they should really look to that game for the best of JRPG story-telling and characters. Don´t give up on them yet, they have really not made that many bad parts in the series, only 11 and 13.
#14 Posted by wiouds (5520 posts) -

I thought 13 and 13-2 was night and day. They kept the tactical and versatile battle-system, and changed the story-structure. The characters were still a bit irritating in 13-2, but much less than in 13. Playing FF9 for the first time right now, they should really look to that game for the best of JRPG story-telling and characters. Don´t give up on them yet, they have really not made that many bad parts in the series, only 11 and 13.DeadSquirrelpie

They fallen into the ideal that only drama character stories are worth writing.

#15 Posted by Vrygar777 (444 posts) -

You have to remember, a small stone may only make a ripple at first, but someday it'll be a huge wave. Unfortunately the wave has passed, and the waters have been left muddied.

Square used to be a trusted name... but now they're just kinda meh. Why can't they give us what us fans want. I mean obviously GTA should be a prime example of why you shouldn't deviate with the core elements too much and still have a successful game. Square-Enix, you don't need to reinvent the wheel to sell well... 

#16 Posted by bgna8980 (14 posts) -
Has anyone else noticed that Final Fantasy has lost almost everything that made it great? What happened to extremely unique characters with such diverse and unique personalities that you could become emotional attached with out ever hearing his/her voice. What about the turn based combat filled with strategy, timing, and planning? Final Fantasy has officially lost a fan since FF13. Just a super linear, boring and generic rpg with "final fantasy" stamped on it. Am i the only one out there? What will it take to bring them back to making classics like 6,7,8,9 and 10 again?TaborhamLincoln
You've just named all my favorite final fantasy games and for that Kudos to you! ^^
#17 Posted by bjornborgue (25 posts) -
I found the story and character from FF13 to be good. They are way better than what is in ME2. The reason I bring of ME2 is that they both have the same theme but FF13 have better characters and story.wiouds
Borderline sickening. Are we sure all humans are the same species? This fellow makes an excellent case for the contrary.
#18 Posted by wiouds (5520 posts) -

[QUOTE="wiouds"]I found the story and character from FF13 to be good. They are way better than what is in ME2. The reason I bring of ME2 is that they both have the same theme but FF13 have better characters and story.bjornborgue
Borderline sickening. Are we sure all humans are the same species? This fellow makes an excellent case for the contrary.

Well, I'm human and not a sheep.

Overall, Mass effect 2 is a bad sotry with well writen parts.

The over all story in FF13 story deal the theme of dealing with lost much better.

#19 Posted by VenPlayer (169 posts) -

Even if they do make FF15 a technically brilliant game, which they're perfectly capable of doing, I guarantee it won't be the kind of game that hits people emotionally- the way my generation (born in the 80s) cherish 6,7 and chrono trigger. They just don't have that kind of skill anymore. You can tell from the trailers exactly what the characters are gonna be like. Hell, you can tell by just looking at their hairstyles. They're gonna moan about their feelings a lot and then a crystal is gonna do something pretty magical- that's all you need to know. And every time they use the words "dreams", "honor", "heart" they get deducted 0.1 from their metacritic average. If you can't create depth with normal language, you can't create depth.

garywood69

I totally agree with you, sir... I'm with the '90s generation and started gaming actively around the age of FF8 and FF9. But I do understand what it feels like to play on older installments because I played them from emulators and remakes. Older installments seems more mature and really fantasy-like. These latest installments seems more like emo j-dramas made into game.. And I think Kingdom Hearts is enough for SE's ARPG. I liked FF13, but it's enough. I don't want 13 sequels. Maybe they keep making sequels for 13 because of the Japanese fanbase's demands..

#20 Posted by VenPlayer (169 posts) -

Even if they do make FF15 a technically brilliant game, which they're perfectly capable of doing, I guarantee it won't be the kind of game that hits people emotionally- the way my generation (born in the 80s) cherish 6,7 and chrono trigger. They just don't have that kind of skill anymore. You can tell from the trailers exactly what the characters are gonna be like. Hell, you can tell by just looking at their hairstyles. They're gonna moan about their feelings a lot and then a crystal is gonna do something pretty magical- that's all you need to know. And every time they use the words "dreams", "honor", "heart" they get deducted 0.1 from their metacritic average. If you can't create depth with normal language, you can't create depth.

garywood69

I totally agree with you, sir... I'm with the '90s generation and started gaming actively around the age of FF8 and FF9. But I do understand what it feels like to play on older installments because I played them from emulators and remakes. Older installments seems more mature and really fantasy-like. These latest installments seems more like emo j-dramas made into game.. And I think Kingdom Hearts is enough for SE's ARPG. I liked FF13, but it's enough. I don't want 13 sequels. Maybe they keep making sequels for 13 because of the Japanese fanbase's demands..

#21 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -

Play FF4 DS. Watch Bravely Default vids. (it's essentially a Final Fantasy game) Hell, play FF14: A Realm Reborn. Now go play the FF13 games, and watch vids of Lightning Returns and FF15. Then scratch your head and ask "WTF?" like the rest of us.

#22 Edited by dbz987 (3723 posts) -

Its not so bad for me. FF12 was awesome. It was one of the best games in the series imo. It was open world and there was so much to do in the game.

FF13 was not as good as the previous final fantasy games in the series but it was a solid game. It has decent combat but forgettable characters and story.

#23 Posted by Ballroompirate (23741 posts) -

You lost me when you said FFX was a good FF game, sorry but 10 was pretty damn bad and I'd say it was worse than FF13,FF13-2 and FF10-2 if it weren't for Auron and Lulu (two amazing support characters). Tidus single handedly ruined that game with his whiny attitude and "my dad didn't love me" complex was waaay over drawn in that game, then the ending...

FF4,FF6,FF7,FF8,FF9 and FFT were the best FF games w/o a doubt, hell I'll even admit I liked FF12 but it's no where near the epicness of FF4 or FF6. FF15 looks meh and not even as great as it was first shown but I'm gonna hold off on fully judging that game tell I have it in my hands, I will say this though I have 0 expectations that FF15 will be a good game or even as good as FF12 was.

#24 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -

Final Fantasy has decided it wanted to make three crap games noone wanted, a terrible online game and then with FF15 they just said F*ck it and made it the new Devil May Cry.

The series hasn't been good since the PS2 days.

#25 Posted by The_Last_Ride (74416 posts) -

i know what you mean, but i still enjoyed 13 and 13-2 even more. But i am looking forward to FFX HD release

#26 Posted by Randolph (10542 posts) -

@GodModeEnabled said:

Final Fantasy has decided it wanted to make three crap games noone wanted, a terrible online game and then with FF15 they just said F*ck it and made it the new Devil May Cry.

The series hasn't been good since the PS2 days.

They made the online game good, A Realm Reborn is receiving high praise from players, and PS3 players of the game get a completely free of charge upgrade to the PS4 version when it arrives early next year. SE is being unbelievably good with ARR. Makes you wonder what they don't get about how to fix the single player games.

#27 Posted by Ovirew (6726 posts) -

I think the problem since FF11 has been that many of these games don't feel like Final Fantasy games. On their own, with a different title, they would probably do better than they do with the FF moniker attached to them.

I really didn't care for FF13 or its characters, maybe it's just not my kind of game. I thought most of the characters had annoying voices and fit obnoxious stereotypical roles. I didn't care much for the story, and I didn't like the game play. I wasn't even really wowed by its graphics, which is something that did happen to me with 7, 8, 9 and 10.

But it's true that I probably had greater expectations of what FF13 should have been before it was announced. If it weren't a Final Fantasy game, but was instead just called "Lightning" or "Cocoon", it probably would have seen more success because people would have looked at it as a new IP and not as the next FF game.

That said, I think FF11 and 14 might be decent, though I'm still not sure they should really be called Final Fantasy because they really have nothing to do with the other games. And for FF MMOs, I still don't think they are inclusive of the Final Fantasy series as a whole, or represent the series' roots in any way.

#28 Edited by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@GodModeEnabled said:

Final Fantasy has decided it wanted to make three crap games noone wanted, a terrible online game and then with FF15 they just said F*ck it and made it the new Devil May Cry.

The series hasn't been good since the PS2 days.

They made the online game good, A Realm Reborn is receiving high praise from players, and PS3 players of the game get a completely free of charge upgrade to the PS4 version when it arrives early next year. SE is being unbelievably good with ARR. Makes you wonder what they don't get about how to fix the single player games.

Oh yeah I forgot they rereleased their MMO, well that's good then at least they are pleasing someone I suppose.

While I hate Square as a developer this gen, I think they are in line to be one of the best publishers.

#29 Posted by osan0 (13019 posts) -

im probably going to have to raise a flame shield for this one.
but imho square should seriously consider ignoring the PS4 and X1 (except for the MMO, the newer hardware will help there) or at least not making FF SP games specifically for that level of hardware.

instead focus on the wiiu, PS3, 360, vita and 3DS for the single player games. they have really struggled with the PS3 and 360 level of tech but by now it should be more manageable (square can make the 3DS sing already). but they also souldn't even focus on pushing those platforms very hard.

the biggest problem is creating content for them. something like 7 had a big overworld, hours and hours of music, a massive script, lots of towns n villages, tons of different types of enemies, big set pieces etc.etc. going back further chrono trigger had several overworlds each with different visual style + everything FF had and so on.

they cant do that and push something like the X1 or PS4 to the limit. it simply costs too much money and takes up too much time. they havent even been able to do it on the PS3 and 360 yet really.

FF was never about the visuals anyway (though the FMVs back in the day were always a nice little reward :) ). it was the adventure, the cool worlds created, the tactics in combat.

the most anticipated game coming from square themselves at the moment is not a super duper tech extravaganza...its bravely default on the 3DS. we have games like project eternity being funded by the community. if square are concerned that a FF built the old fashioned (either 2d isometric like the snes or 3D on prerendered like the PS1) way wont sell because its not pretty enough then i dont think they need worry too much.

as long as its a good FF game and it does what it does very well it will do well....probably.

usually the advancement of tech is a good thing. in many cases it helps great games become even better. sometimes it makes new things possible. final fantasy single player is an exception to that rule.

#30 Edited by I-AM-N00B (470 posts) -

I don't think Final Fantasy was ever a good franchise in truth, but then again I'm not a fan of turn based RPGs, or the JRPG genre. But if the new one is meant to be more of an action or hack 'n' slash game, as well as not being turn based I may be tempted to look into it more, as it sounds like it may appeal to me.

#31 Edited by banderweir (45 posts) -

Totally agree, I have hated every single one since IX. What someone said earlier is correct; they just don't feel like "Final Fantasy" games anymore. I don't see why they couldn't keep the core turn based mechanics under the hood and just code the graphics to look more like real time (I obviously don't know much about programming)?

Square lost me years ago, and the more I see from them the further I run. A pity, they used to be my favorite developer.

#32 Posted by Archangel3371 (16196 posts) -

I've been a Final Fantasy fan since day one and I really enjoyed FFXIII and FFXIII-2 myself and am very much looking forward to Lightning Returns. I'm also very excited for FFXV and seriously considering picking up FFXIV for the PS4.

#33 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

I didn't even bother playing FFXIII, and since FFXI was blah and FFXII was like an offline version of XI, I'm just not interested in it any longer. Not to mention that FFXIV is online as well.

#34 Posted by SteelAttack (10520 posts) -

I don't think even the people at S-E know what the shit is FF doing anymore.

#35 Edited by violian (1431 posts) -

I stopped playing Final Fantasy after FF10. My favorite by far (the first and only game that ever made me emotionally connected) was FF8. Characters had so much personality and to be able to explore the world at will made the game a memorable masterpiece. Hopefully, they remake this game in HD or something so I can re-play it all over again. The new FF games are just too linear and I feel most characters aren't really developed.

#36 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (18466 posts) -

You wana know what Final Fantasy is doing ?

Its evolving and trying to become better. If it was up to You guys we would have nothing but a string of remakes with zero evolution to the gameplay.

#37 Posted by Thomas_De_Pauw (6 posts) -

@TaborhamLincoln:

#38 Edited by 0diN_7 (1036 posts) -

I'm a die hard Final Fantasy fan. I was born in the 80's and I've been playing the series from early on so I used to get upset when square released that they were making FFXI an mmo or how linear they made FFXIII. I was mad when they took the world map out of FFX. Up until very recently I almost hated the new FF but I'm going back through XIII and I'm sorry but I love it. I'm trying to be more open to what Squre-Enix is doing instead of hating on my favorite game series of all time all the time. FF XV is not going to be a hack and slash game. It's going to be an action RPG similar to Kingdom Hearts but improved upon. You'll even be able to switch between your characters on the fly. There is going to be an open world map that you can traverse by foot, chocobo, and airship. The city in the demo is the only modernized city in the world. Every other place in the world is going to be fantasy like for reasons I'm not going to explain here. Just go read about it. I was pissed about this game too until I read all the info I could find about it. They are bringing back a lot of cool elements that made FF good. Also, did everyone forget how linear X was? Very linear to say the least. All FF games are linear it just seems like they aren't because of the world map. They open up towards the end but everything is just one big hallway for most of the game.

#39 Posted by nicecall (528 posts) -

one thing i can't get with FF is the fact they are now at 3 sequels for FF13. making three games off the horrible characters of those games is unbelievable. I hated all the characters so much, and they are having a third one which looks even more boring then the other two combined.

#40 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (18466 posts) -

I don't remember this. And yet there I am #36

#41 Posted by ShepardCommandr (3261 posts) -

The series went downhill after 10.

Personally i found 12 to be the absolute worst of the series.13 was pretty bad too.13-2 was much better overall but cheesy and stupid(like 10-2).13-3,well we'll see about that.

15 might just be exactly what the series needs right now or it might be a flop that will destroy the franchise.Again we'll see.

#42 Posted by Netret0120 (2871 posts) -

Never has a Final Fantasy game aplit opinion like 13 has.

They have made 3 sequels because there are people who actually enjoy the Cocoon world and want to play in it more. SE also built a very expensive engine and want to exhaust it before probably doing the same thing to Final Fantasy 15-1-2-3. I don't agree with it but these games are making SE a profit so there must be people out there who love it.

Personally, I enjoyed FF13 for i went in there with low expectations and enjoyed the battle system. Otherwise it is definitely not in my top5 Final fantasy games but as a standalone game, It is good enough