VF5 needs to be a GotY candidate

Ask all your best gamer friends what their top five GotY picks are, and you'll probably get a lot of repeated nominees. Heck, make it a top ten list, and it'd probably be the same. That's understandable, considering how kind 2007 has been to us, but what kind of sucks is that you'd be lucky if even one of those gamers voted for Virtua Fighter 5 Online - easily one of the most intricately crafted games (near perfect, really), in any genre... maybe ever. Ironically, it still probably doesn't constitute straight-up GotY material... we shall see.

The real bummer here isn't that people "aren't really diggin' it," more that, by and large, they're not even giving it a shot. That's my guess, anyway. And if I chanced another guess, I'd assume this is because most people probably have the wrong ideas about fighting games going in. Without getting too far into it, I can attest that the mental gymnastics that go on in fighting games aren't that much different than they are in, say, a shooter like Gears of War or Halo 3. Most of the people I talk to face-to-face tell me they're, "just not into fighting games" anymore. They like other games, like the ones above. Then, when I finally get them to sit down and give VF5 an honest chance, they discover that they really, really like it. In fact, one of my friends was so convinced he stopped playing his newly purchased Mass Effect in favor of VF5 ranked matches. Yet another bought a 360 just to get his VF5 fix. To me, that's big, but because it's in a niche genre, this game will only get GotY consideration in niche categories. Boo.

So what gets me down is that I, like many others, have immersed myself in this amazing game, and I know that the gaming public at large will succumb to their false preconceptions and never find what I've found. Virtua Fighter 5 is brilliant. It's gorgeous. It's got the kind of replay value you can only find in fighters, and even then, it's among the highest. Perhaps best of all, it's fun - and I'd bet dollars to donuts that any semi-competetive gamer reading this would love it if they actually took notice. Virtua Fighter 5 Online is easily one of the most impressively coded, right-kinda-deep games I've ever played, and although most people couldn't fathom it, I say it's got the stuff to be a true GotY.

As an aside, I just got my ranked online win/loss ratio to an even 50.00% -good achievement if you know how terrible it was when I started :)

Fighting games are my favorite at times. 2d fighters that is. 3d fighters to me are button mashers and luck, but Virtual Fighter at least has skill involved. Funny the one 3d fighter that is actually skilled and good gets no respect, but Soul Caliber 4 and Tekken which are both pretty EH get all the praise. Tobal for Psone was always fun to me.

If i could vote, heck id vote Starcraft this year since i stil play that more then the games that come out now.

No, it IS much different than playing a shooter, let's not dumb things down. In order to appreciate a good fighting game, you have to be "into" it. Same as an RTS, more or less.nopalversion

And yeah, the fact that fighting games are among the least popular of genres is the only reason I can kinda-sorta see why VF doesn't have any reason to be GotY. If you look at the "whole picture," I suppose popularity should be a factor - I buy that. However, when you consider that even the most popular GotY shoo-ins all have their share of annoying shortcomings, and VF5O's is almost just, "it's not popular," you begin to see why it deserves big props. Well, you do if you've gotten into it and taken a second to understand how unbelievable it is (from a coding standpoint, at least), anyway.

[QUOTE="nopalversion"]No, it IS much different than playing a shooter, let's not dumb things down. In order to appreciate a good fighting game, you have to be "into" it. Same as an RTS, more or less.ShenlongBo

And yeah, the fact that fighting games are among the least popular of genres is the only reason I can kinda-sorta see why VF doesn't have any reason to be GotY. If you look at the "whole picture," I suppose popularity should be a factor - I buy that. However, when you consider that even the most popular GotY shoo-ins all have their share of annoying shortcomings, and VF5O's is almost just, "it's not popular," you begin to see why it deserves big props. Well, you do if you've gotten into it and taken a second to understand how unbelievable it is (from a coding standpoint, at least), anyway.

At base level, some tactics, or indeed some war principles can of course be applied to most genres. Also, it foea without saying that to excel at both a shooter and a fighter you need some real skills. However, I feel that implying that fighters equate to shooters robs them of their identity. You can't really intimidate an opponent in a shooter. I mean, you just can't bluff. You just can't train them. In fighting games, it's just you and your digital puppet. There's no team mechanic (tag really doesn't count), no memorizing level layuouts. In most good fighters nowadays, memorizing combos is not necessary anymore. Moves aren't just your weapons, they are the whole game. I could go on and on, but the point I want to make is that fighters are their own kind of game, and that's why you need to be versed in them in order to enjoy them. I, for example, just can't enjoy an RTS online, for the simple reason that I can'tabsorb the mentality as well as other ppl.

Im loving the game so far but it is definetly for the hardcore fighting fan and hard on noobs like me. After you get so far in the quest mode the difficulty ramps up too much. Maybe I just need more practice sure.... but it is a hard game to learn and very unforgiving.GodModeEnabled

Haven't played the X360 version of VF5 and I doubt I ever will (sounds like the single player fell down in comparison to VF4 again and my internet connection probably is fast enough to make an online game approximate an offline one) but it sounds like a great game for those with really fast internet connections. I agree it should be a GOTY candidate based on what I've read in the massive VF5 thread, but the superb VF4 and VF2 were ignored when GOTY came around, so I doubt that the less popular VF5 will be any different.

Of course, what's most important is that you and others are having a great time with it. A GOTY award doesn't turn lead into gold.

Haven't played the X360 version of VF5 and I doubt I ever will (sounds like the single player fell down in comparison to VF4 again and my internet connection probably is fast enough to make an online game approximate an offline one) but it sounds like a great game for those with really fast internet connections. I agree it should be a GOTY candidate based on what I've read in the massive VF5 thread, but the superb VF4 and VF2 were ignored when GOTY came around, so I doubt that the less popular VF5 will be any different.

Of course, what's most important is that you and others are having a great time with it. A GOTY award doesn't turn lead into gold.

CarnageHeart

Virtua fighter 5 is a great game indeed. But ask yourself this question, what makes it unique from the other great games of the year. And is the game popular enough to recieve that kind of honor? The answers is no. VF5 is excellent, but it isn't revolutionary. I haven't seen anything that gave me a sensation that i would remember for the rest of my life. Plus, its not the type of game that anybody would just pick up and play. You have to be a serious hardcore fighter lover to do that. The game doesn't have enough juice in it to win against heavy hitters such as bioshock, halo 3, call of duty 4, mass effect and assassins creed. I'm sorry man.TFrieden0928

THe revolutionary argument isn't a good one, there are very few titles if any that were really revolutionary, SMG's use of gravity maybe one but thats all that comes to mind...VF5 should be able to compete with the games you just mentioned, and that it cannot is almost tragic, however I agree in that there are better games released this year COD4 maybe, Bioshock maybe, SMG definitely, but the rest you named I don't think equate in terms of quality.

[QUOTE="TFrieden0928"]Virtua fighter 5 is a great game indeed. But ask yourself this question, what makes it unique from the other great games of the year. And is the game popular enough to recieve that kind of honor? The answers is no. VF5 is excellent, but it isn't revolutionary. I haven't seen anything that gave me a sensation that i would remember for the rest of my life. Plus, its not the type of game that anybody would just pick up and play. You have to be a serious hardcore fighter lover to do that. The game doesn't have enough juice in it to win against heavy hitters such as bioshock, halo 3, call of duty 4, mass effect and assassins creed. I'm sorry man.HiResDes

THe revolutionary argument isn't a good one, there are very few titles if any that were really revolutionary, SMG's use of gravity maybe one but thats all that comes to mind...VF5 should be able to compete with the games you just mentioned, and that it cannot is almost tragic, however I agree in that there are better games released this year COD4 maybe, Bioshock maybe, SMG definitely, but the rest you named I don't think equate in terms of quality.

Check the game of the year nominations of this website to see the games i mentioned. Also read some gameinformer. You might learn something. Oh and if you don't think halo isn't great there is something definitely wrong with you.

I was going to take advantage of that Circuit City deal when it came out, but when I actually went there... no game. They didn't get a shipment in until like last week, and by that time I just spent the money I was going to use to get that game. Seriously, most people don't even know this game is good.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Im loving the game so far but it is definetly for the hardcore fighting fan and hard on noobs like me. After you get so far in the quest mode the difficulty ramps up too much. Maybe I just need more practice sure.... but it is a hard game to learn and very unforgiving.ShenlongBo

[QUOTE="HiResDes"]

[QUOTE="TFrieden0928"]Virtua fighter 5 is a great game indeed. But ask yourself this question, what makes it unique from the other great games of the year. And is the game popular enough to recieve that kind of honor? The answers is no. VF5 is excellent, but it isn't revolutionary. I haven't seen anything that gave me a sensation that i would remember for the rest of my life. Plus, its not the type of game that anybody would just pick up and play. You have to be a serious hardcore fighter lover to do that. The game doesn't have enough juice in it to win against heavy hitters such as bioshock, halo 3, call of duty 4, mass effect and assassins creed. I'm sorry man.TFrieden0928

THe revolutionary argument isn't a good one, there are very few titles if any that were really revolutionary, SMG's use of gravity maybe one but thats all that comes to mind...VF5 should be able to compete with the games you just mentioned, and that it cannot is almost tragic, however I agree in that there are better games released this year COD4 maybe, Bioshock maybe, SMG definitely, but the rest you named I don't think equate in terms of quality.

Check the game of the year nominations of this website to see the games i mentioned. Also read some gameinformer. You might learn something. Oh and if you don't think halo isn't great there is something definitely wrong with you.

You need to chill out. You post with 1/4 the intelligence yet 4x the swagger and insults as the regulars around here. I've opened up something like 4 threads tonight and in half of them you go off on someone over a simple difference of opinion.

Anyway, I agree with those who say it's not so much the quality of VF5 that eliminates from GOTY, it's the niche nature of it and all serious fighting games, and the dedication it takes to play at even mid-high levels. Matches are often won or lost based on a few frames and that can't be said for any other genre.

It was great when I was younger and could trounce most my friends and compete with all of them; now they all have jobs and the meat of the fighting genre is online, where it's truly a gladitorial sport at the higher level and demands both good reflex and a certain level of dedication and thick skin most dont have. It's much more intimidating and embarrassing getting the beat-down one-on-one.

Anyway, I agree with those who say it's not so much the quality of VF5 that eliminates from GOTY, it's the niche nature of it and all serious fighting games, and the dedication it takes to play at even mid-high levels. Matches are often won or lost based on a few frames and that can't be said for any other genre.

Uncle_Tbag

So because VF5 is precise and requires skill it shouldn't be nominated for GOTY?

I really don't see the logic in that argument at all.

I also don't think mainstream popularity should factor into GOTY nominations. The fact that VF5 is a niche title does nothing to dilute its quality. By your rationale, Spiderman 3 should win the Academy Award for best picture rather than films like Michael Clayton, No Country for Old Men, or Zodiac.

[QUOTE="Uncle_Tbag"]

Anyway, I agree with those who say it's not so much the quality of VF5 that eliminates from GOTY, it's the niche nature of it and all serious fighting games, and the dedication it takes to play at even mid-high levels. Matches are often won or lost based on a few frames and that can't be said for any other genre.

Grammaton-Cleric

So because VF5 is precise and requires skill it shouldn't be nominated for GOTY?

I really don't see the logic in that argument at all.

I also don't think mainstream popularity should factor into GOTY nominations. The fact that VF5 is a niche title does nothing to dilute its quality. By your rationale, Spiderman 3 should win the Academy Award for best picture rather than films like Michael Clayton, No Country for Old Men, or Zodiac.

To Gram: Exactly. The popularity contest is already in place, and we know it as "The Player's Choice Award." I'd like to thinkthe free-thinking, knowledgeable, objective critics out there would be willing to include ALL great games in the runnings, not just the most popular ones.

[QUOTE="ShenlongBo"][QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Im loving the game so far but it is definetly for the hardcore fighting fan and hard on noobs like me. After you get so far in the quest mode the difficulty ramps up too much. Maybe I just need more practice sure.... but it is a hard game to learn and very unforgiving.GodModeEnabled

[QUOTE="ShenlongBo"][QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Im loving the game so far but it is definetly for the hardcore fighting fan and hard on noobs like me. After you get so far in the quest mode the difficulty ramps up too much. Maybe I just need more practice sure.... but it is a hard game to learn and very unforgiving.GodModeEnabled

You're not having second thoughts, are you? :(

i dont know, i like my fighting games simple and able to be played by my buddies in the same room. i think being a hardcore fighting fan would ruin the genre to me.OneWingedAngeI

I find it to be quite the opposite. Any time I just try to play a fighting game without competitive aspirations (like any time I've tried picking up Guilty Gear), I've only ended up feeling like I was wasting time I could be putting into something with a long-term upside.

Anyway, on the subject of the thread...I'd put the Game of the Year debate down to Virtua Fighter 5 and Persona 3, but I'm totally split between those two. I have no idea which game I'd award it to at this point. They're both too amazing.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="ShenlongBo"][QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Im loving the game so far but it is definetly for the hardcore fighting fan and hard on noobs like me. After you get so far in the quest mode the difficulty ramps up too much. Maybe I just need more practice sure.... but it is a hard game to learn and very unforgiving.DarkCatalyst

You're not having second thoughts, are you? :(

i dont know, i like my fighting games simple and able to be played by my buddies in the same room. i think being a hardcore fighting fan would ruin the genre to me.OneWingedAngeI

I find it to be quite the opposite. Any time I just try to play a fighting game without competitive aspirations (like any time I've tried picking up Guilty Gear), I've only ended up feeling like I was wasting time I could be putting into something with a long-term upside.

Anyway, on the subject of the thread...I'd put the Game of the Year debate down to Virtua Fighter 5 and Persona 3, but I'm totally split between those two. I have no idea which game I'd award it to at this point. They're both too amazing.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"][QUOTE="Uncle_Tbag"]

Anyway, I agree with those who say it's not so much the quality of VF5 that eliminates from GOTY, it's the niche nature of it and all serious fighting games, and the dedication it takes to play at even mid-high levels. Matches are often won or lost based on a few frames and that can't be said for any other genre.

ShenlongBo

So because VF5 is precise and requires skill it shouldn't be nominated for GOTY?

I really don't see the logic in that argument at all.

I also don't think mainstream popularity should factor into GOTY nominations. The fact that VF5 is a niche title does nothing to dilute its quality. By your rationale, Spiderman 3 should win the Academy Award for best picture rather than films like Michael Clayton, No Country for Old Men, or Zodiac.

To Gram: Exactly. The popularity contest is already in place, and we know it as "The Player's Choice Award." I'd like to thinkthe free-thinking, knowledgeable, objective critics out there would be willing to include ALL great games in the runnings, not just the most popular ones.

The only reason both of you fail to see the logic in the argument is because you fail to understand the argument.

I'm not saying VF5 deserves to be eliminated or nominated in any category of award due to a lack of quality or abundance thereof. I'm not saying it should be eliminated at all. What I said is because it is so difficult to master, as is any worthy fighting game, fewer people will spend enough time to appreciate the genre, and therefore it will get less attention and fewer votes.

Like any other niche area, it takes more time to appreciate this genre; that's neither a good nor bad thing. It just is. Dumb it down so it has a wider appeal and quality is lost. Preserve the art of the fighting genre and you get a superior experience that is lost on many people, and it's not because their taste is inferior to yours.

I know you will have a hard time with this one grammaton, because it doesn't mean their taste or sophistication in game is any lesser than yours; it also shares zero similarity with the absolutely false analogy you lay connecting cinema and games: the former can in some cases be tied taste and patience it takes to enjoy, well, at least one of the movies you mention, while the latter is just a matter of time and reflexes.

If you want to declare someone a nobody or a "non-entity" (as you're so quick to do in regards to so many subjects) because they don't have the reflexes and or time to master a fighting game, go right ahead, but it's extremely boorish. Merely par for the course I suppose, trying to play the high-minded sophisticate in regards to what is still largely a child's hobby. Maybe it's best to focus on those movies that make you feel superior to others for a while instead of games and gaming forums.

[QUOTE="ShenlongBo"][QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"][QUOTE="Uncle_Tbag"]

Anyway, I agree with those who say it's not so much the quality of VF5 that eliminates from GOTY, it's the niche nature of it and all serious fighting games, and the dedication it takes to play at even mid-high levels. Matches are often won or lost based on a few frames and that can't be said for any other genre.

Uncle_Tbag

So because VF5 is precise and requires skill it shouldn't be nominated for GOTY?

I really don't see the logic in that argument at all.

I also don't think mainstream popularity should factor into GOTY nominations. The fact that VF5 is a niche title does nothing to dilute its quality. By your rationale, Spiderman 3 should win the Academy Award for best picture rather than films like Michael Clayton, No Country for Old Men, or Zodiac.

To Gram: Exactly. The popularity contest is already in place, and we know it as "The Player's Choice Award." I'd like to thinkthe free-thinking, knowledgeable, objective critics out there would be willing to include ALL great games in the runnings, not just the most popular ones.

The only reason both of you fail to see the logic in the argument is because you fail to understand the argument.

I'm not saying VF5 deserves to be eliminated or nominated in any category of award due to a lack of quality or abundance thereof. I'm not saying it should be eliminated at all. What I said is because it is so difficult to master, as is any worthy fighting game, fewer people will spend enough time to appreciate the genre, and therefore it will get less attention and fewer votes.

Like any other niche area, it takes more time to appreciate this genre; that's neither a good nor bad thing. It just is. Dumb it down so it has a wider appeal and quality is lost. Preserve the art of the fighting genre and you get a superior experience that is lost on many people, and it's not because their taste is inferior to yours.

I know you will have a hard time with this one grammaton, because it doesn't mean their taste or sophistication in game is any lesser than yours; it also shares zero similarity with the absolutely false analogy you lay connecting cinema and games: the former can in some cases be tied taste and patience it takes to enjoy, well, at least one of the movies you mention, while the latter is just a matter of time and reflexes.

If you want to declare someone a nobody or a "non-entity" (as you're so quick to do in regards to so many subjects) because they don't have the reflexes and or time to master a fighting game, go right ahead, but it's extremely boorish. Merely par for the course I suppose, trying to play the high-minded sophisticate in regards to what is still largely a child's hobby. Maybe it's best to focus on those movies that make you feel superior to others for a while instead of games and gaming forums.

Don't go blaming other people because your argument was specious and your grasp of persuasive language is tenuous at best. For whatever reason, my posts rub you the wrong way and once again you resort to pitiful, veiled personal attacks because you lack the ability to address the issue at hand in an intelligent manner.

If endorsing quality examples of any media strikes you as some sort of elitist attitude on my part then so be it. The analogy between cinema and gaming works better than you seem to be able to grasp but given how shallow your knowledge seems of both mediums, your criticisms don't strike me as particularly astute. What I find most telling about your pedantic, trite ramblings however is your assertion that I am attempting to "play the high-minded sophisticate in regards to what is still largely a child's hobby." What the general public thinks of gaming is of little interest to me and I must confess I'm confused as to why you would visit a discussion board if your own opinion of the medium is so low? If anybody here is acting like they are better than everyone else and the medium being discussed, it's you.

For the record, I have no problem applying an academic rubric to videogames anymore than I have a problem applying a similar methodology when evaluating and deconstructing comics or animation. The kind of stigmatism you are perpetuating is the product of a narrow mindset that is downright pedestrian. It's painfully obvious you know very little about VF5 and even less about the medium as a whole, so while you can refer to me as boorish, I personally consider a person who drones on about topics they know nothing about to be the definitive example of a bore.

As for you calling me out to leave, I think I'll stay. Your comment about me watching films to feel superior was undeniably silly and further illustrates how little you understand about what it actually means to be an enthusiast of any medium. I didn't watch those films because they make me feel smart; I watched them because they are superior examples of a medium I happen to love. I make no apologies for having strong opinions because I back those opinions up with intelligent discussion and I play and watch as much as I possibly can before making any assertions. Rather than except my opinions as divergent you want to label me as something else and you make your case by putting words into my mouth and making erroneous assumption about my motives.

I'm a big fighting games fan and my top 3 will definitely include VF5, but let's face it, this game is not a pick up and play. I found that each character is like playing a totally different game and once you move to the next char, you do forget the moves of the previous character.

If you notice some of the nominees, most of them are easy to get in and play, VF5 is not like that.

This isn't like the Oscars, games dont get recognition like "Game of the Year Nominee" No one remembers nominees, just the winners themselves. There were to many games this year, and the list needs a limit.DarKre

...suuuure.

I'm not saying VF5 deserves to be eliminated or nominated in any category of award due to a lack of quality or abundance thereof. I'm not saying it should be eliminated at all. What I said is because it is so difficult to master, as is any worthy fighting game, fewer people will spend enough time to appreciate the genre, and therefore it will get less attention and fewer votes.Uncle_Tbag

Okay, seriously, where are you getting this stuff from? In less than a month, I've converted two complete non-fighting gamers into believers via VF5, one of which bought a freakin' 360 just to play it. Again, this dude wasn't even into Mortal Kombat, but after I sort of showed him how VF works, its depth just sunk in naturally, and he was hooked. He still sucks ASS at the game, but he loves and appreciates it.

Yet another friend, maybe two days ago, said to me, "you know, I have to admit, I never actually realized fighting games could be so deep." This is another guy that went from, "I really just don't dig fighters," to calling me up late at night to explain his new strats and brag about how well he's doing online.

You pretty much made that whole bit up, most likely based off of your own assumptions and (my guess) the fact that you actually don't understand the game to begin with. The simple fact of the matter is that Virtua Fighter 5 is one of the most brilliantly developed games of '07, and no matter how underground it is, nothing changes that. If anything, I'd think sites should hold themselves to the standard of highlighting masterpieces from all genres, instead of harping on again and again about the games everyone already knows full good and well are awesome.

As much as I like VF 5, I think it's too niche to be GOTY.

The last time a fighting game went up for GOTY was SFII during the 16-bit era wasn't it. I think SFII won on many game magazines, like EGM.

I think fighting games don't get their just dues.

As much as I like VF 5, I think it's too niche to be GOTY.

The last time a fighting game went up for GOTY was SFII during the 16-bit era wasn't it. I think SFII won on many game magazines, like EGM.

I think fighting games don't get their just dues.ASK_Story

Which leads us to the obvious question.

Why shouldn't niche games be considered for GotY if the quality's there?

High review scores are frequently able to get games exposure they wouldn't otherwise have. Why, then, should a GotY award (essentially a glorified good review) be reserved only for games that are made specifically for the masses? Why can't a GotY award help people discover games they wouldn't otherwise play?

It would be a beautiful scenario, seeing a thread of posts like this.

"I've never really thought much of fighting games, but when Virtua Fighter 5 won Game of the Year, it got my attention and I had to give it a shot. At first I didn't get it, but I stayed with it...watched the match videos included on the disc, looked online for information about my character...now I'm even going online and doing surprisingly well! This game is a blast, and so well-designed I can't believe it. Everything just clicks. Now I can see why this game has the following it does and why it got Game of the Year. Absolute masterpiece."