The use of the word "rape" pt.2

Sorry everyone, for those of you who participated in the previous thread, I removed the video from youtube. This runs deep for me because I myself use video games to get over traumatic experiences. I removed the video because I do not want to be a public figure. But for instance, my best friend was shot in the head. I could imagine if every time something happened in a video game someone said "I just shot your best friend in the head." Many girls use video games to get past traumatic experiences too.

Why is it so popular to use this word in video game culture? "You just got raped?" Really? People are REALLY raped every day. Doesn't it hurt you when you think about a girl who really got raped, and is using video games as therapy, and hears someone say "you just got raped" every time she loses in the video game. Or conversely when her team wins her teammates saying "we raped you."

Another poster mentioned how is wife was sexually assaulted as a child and this caused her to stop playing video games online. That is terrible because video games are extremely therapeutic. I think all of the people throwing the word around casually should be the ones FORCED to stop playing them online - with a ban.

In light of the truth of the situation, what do you all think?

Oh, and I noticed how people started comparing it to calling people a "***" for no reason or telling them to "kill yourself." While I agree that those things are wrong, this specific issue is an issue that pertains directly to video game culture. It is a detriment to the community. How can therapist recommend online gaming as therapy for rape victims given the current state of the culture?

I think it's merely a tool for enticing rage and attention, like any other similar word uttered in any online game ever, and it you should outright ignore it. If you or someone else is offended, that sounds like a personal problem, unrelated to video games, and you should direct it at other boards.

Straight up that's foolishness.

This is something that originated and is perpetuated in video game culture among competitive gamers. The kids pick it up and now it's in every last game.

The intent behind those insults is as thin as air, stop being traumatized for absolutely nothing

Does this really need another topic? I know I responded to the last one, but this time I just want to say that there is a "mute" button in online games. If people are that sensitive to particular words, they would learn to utilize the mute button...

Oh, and why would someone be playing online if they were using video games as "therapy"? Sorry, but this is getting more and more ridiculous with every word you add to it.

lol a public figure.

But could someone please explain why it is other peoples problems what some random stranger might feel about a word? i mean sure we should show compassion but we also need to have a finger in the ground and think about all this political correctness and absurd "hippie, sit in a circle and care" nonsense.

Rape is just a word for many and for a lot of males its something that most likely won't happen unless you go to prison and are a weak person.

And when 90% of online multiplayer games have a mute button i honestly don't see a problem, if you have a partner or don't like the word then just mute the person, its not like this person sits and knows that some other random person in the game have reason to not like the word.

So of course those people shouldn't be banned and why should they? if you don't like the word or have been exposed to it, just mute the person, or just don't use in-game chat if you chose to play with strangers.

@SoNin360:

1. People should not be forced to be unable to communicate with their teammates because they have been raped in the past.

2. Many people use video games for therapy. They are a challenge, they are fun, they help you to heal by giving your mind something to focus on other than what you have been through (such as being raped).

Why don't you care?

@anomaly1989:

1. In most games you can mute players individually. They can still communicate with their teammates...

2. I'm not disagreeing that video games can be therapeutic, I'm saying it's ridiculous that someone would use an online game as their go-to for a "therapeutic" experience. But I guess who am I to judge for what people find therapeutic? Regardless, people can still easily mute anyone saying anything offensive over the voice chat. Problem solved.

I just think you're going a bit over the top with this. People are always going to casually say ridiculous things that may offend other people online. But these people can easily not expose themselves to this sort of thing. I'm just not finding this to be a serious issue worthy of discussion.

Spot on here.

After all when we have a industry in movies/music/tv/youtube where people get famous or think its cool to curse and say as many "cursewords" as possible its no wonder that kids pick it up and use it.

Seriously ? !

Sums up my thoughts too

Maybe a nuanced solution would be for servers (hosted or other) to give more specific rules regarding interaction. Just like smoking and non smoking sections. That way when you scroll through the list of active ones, you can tell right off the bat which environments might seem a bit healthier. Or prompts for multiplayer that'll ask you if you want it kept clean or if you want to go all out and talk shit, and it'll automatically filter out which servers one wants to hop into for online games.

For the sake of children, and in terms of how messy things are now, we could curtail some things so they realize what is and isn't permitted in certain environments. That's important for education and growth, but for the rest of us...my anti-censorship sense (strangely fearing the opposite situation) still seems to be tingling again.

We choose to hold back loaded language as individuals on a personal level when someone tells us it hurts them. We have admin and mods keeping things orderly but it has to be our choice first as individuals first to remedy the situation instead of someone else's. Security vs Freedom is a trade off m'afraid. You can have buffers to a certain degree but language and expression is so varied and different, that it's tricky to police. I couldn't count to you how many times reasonable but unnecessarily overheated debates on the Escapist forums would've died down, and progressed if people just asked for clarification on statements, or allowed others to explain what they mean, instead of presuming people in disagreement are bogeymen, and alleging offense. (seriously I couldn't the amount of re-reading posts would be like a third job to me.)

Legislating morality on a universal scale tends to be a two edged sword. Where people war and limit others speech in the name of decency instead of opening others minds to communicating differently. We won't know what's wrong until someone tells us and what offends someone in context is an ever changing metric. Some are obvious, others aren't.

What's cool onstage at the comedy club, or out getting drunk with friends, isn't cool at the corporate dinner or family reunion cookout. We just need online to be the same way rather than this open sea of confusion where professional and uber-dignified complain the internet isn't NSFW enough, and the rest of us worry the internet isn't as casual as it used to be.

What about the use of the N word? You should read some of the racist comments on youtube and yahoo news articles or hear some of the racist, demonic remarks in multiplayer games being made by little kids and backwards adults.

Seems like almost everyone on the planet hates black people for no apparent reason other than skin color and stereotypes. You think these racist people on the internet give a damn about moral and decent black people who work hard to get where they're at and are not looking for handouts? No. They don't. They're just label and stereotype all black people as the 'N word' pure and simple.

I think you having a problem with someone saying 'you just got raped' is a self entitled emotion you have to overcome yourself. You know deep down when a gamer says 'you just got raped', they don't mean that literally. No one has the right to censor what people should say and how people communicate regardless of how ignorant or ill mannered their words are.

You take away or censor a person's right to freely express their self, you take away their freedoms. I don't know your past, but trust me, for every bad or horrible experience you survived, there is someone around you who has endured 10 times what ever suffering you have endured. At some point, they learned to cope with whatever injustice they dealt with and learned to move on.

I don't know how old you are, but at a certain point, you have to move on from bad experiences and try to get on with your life the best way you can. You can't expect ignorant, uneducated people and the world around you to conform to your insecurities and things that make you feel uncomfortable. You have to realize some people are just that. Ignorant and uneducated. Ignore these people and move on with your life.

Lol, that's what single player games are for. Other than that, the mute button in multiplayer works wonders.

The internet is a messed up place, there is no doubt about that. Interactive video games can be the same way. Its the lack of accountability mixed with immature people that makes a volatile cocktail. On the other hand thats part of the reason the net is special. Its almost unadulterated freedom which in turn needs more responsible people. Its not so much words need to be banned as much as people on the net should show eachother more respect and kindness. Ifs responsibility

youre not gonna get people to change how they talk online.. stay off if your feelings are getting hurt from it

I don’t think that people should be allowed to casually throw around rape, f****t, or n****r as an insult online, but I think banning them might be a bit harsh. From what I’ve heard playing COD it’s mostly teens saying this stuff (although I have heard my fair share of adults voices saying dumb crap too) and you shouldn’t be too harsh on them. I mean to get to adulthood you kind of have to go through that dumb teen phase everyone goes through and they shouldn’t be punished for making a dumb choice(not that they should have free reign until 18, they should just get a bit of understanding that they’re still maturing). So how about this for an idea, the first time you get a strike or written up (or whatever the system for register complaints on voice chat is) you have a one week ban with another week of starting every game automatically muted. The second time you get a month ban and you have to send an apology email to whoever you insulted (I mean you’d send it to the game company and then they read it to make sure you didn’t just write “Dick” over and over again” or attach a virus or something, and then they pass it on). And the third time can be when you start considering a permanent ban or losing the chat function in games. Granted that idea has to come with a big warning labeled “I have never worked as a community modder and have no idea how the system works” but I think it could be a good starting point, something that someone smarter than I could build off of.

Also weather my idea would work or not I do think people should be talking about this. There is some truths that no matter what you do there are going to be trolls online who live to annoy people, but you should try and improve the community of online gaming. And on the reverse side you’ll also never be ride of people who get offended by everything, but that doesn’t mean you should just write off people who don’t want the word rape thrown around indiscriminately as over sensitive thin skinned word police. The quality of communication is part of the online gaming experience and it can definitely be improved, but to do that you have to start with a conversation.

False. You'll hear the same phrase uttered between competitors in a variety of activities, namely athletics.

Look, I'm sorry bad things have happened to you, to people you know, and to people in general. However, I do not believe you have a right to determine the speech of others just because you feel uncomfortable. Your best course of action is to either separate yourself from those that are offending you, or learn to differentiate between their use of a word or phrase and the actions that hurt you.

I fail to see how playing violent videogames online interacting with a bunch of immature prepubescent kids is any sort of therapy.

Dude, look.

Why do you allow complete strangers' words to offend you? Why do you think the world owes it to anybody to be polite and considerate? You immediately lend people credence and power when they can hurt your feelings so easily. I'm sorry that poster's wife was assaulted and she was so traumatized by brain-dead trash talking morons that it ultimately prevented her from playing, but that's her responsibility to get over and not the world's to be aware or even care about. She needs to learn to deal with the big bad world because it's not going to cater to her and in fact will do the exact opposite.

I'm not advocating rudeness or intolerance, but only a thicker skin especially for such things as playing online video games. There's much bigger things to worry about than some 12 year old ignorant child's incoherent ramblings over CoD. If that lady's so disturbed she had to stop playing, then she needs to be in heavy therapy because God knows if talking shit on a game did that to her, how on Earth will she survive when something far worse than name calling comes along?

If you leave your home or get online you'll always have to subject yourself to vile people. All you can do is ignore them and not give them what they want: a rise out of you and attention.

I too have been through a lot of terrible things in real life, have friends in prison or dead, lost family members, been through traumatic experiences outside my control, been betrayed by friends and family members etc. but there's no need to play a victim because of those things. They either kill you or make you stronger.

I'm all for growing a thicker skin, but from a personal perspective I really don't understand why some people think that this idea of punishing people who excessively swear, act irresponsibly or insult others is somehow compromising our general freedoms. The internet is a public space, but contrary to the physical public space people are very hesitant to allow any form of order. People treat it like it's their own home. All this swearing and insulting has nothing to do with freedom of expression; it's about being inconsiderate and irresponsible. You know why we have laws? It's not to limit you in your freedom; it's to make sure you don't turn into a selfish and inconsiderate animal. And this 'deal with it' mentality isn't going to solve anything. If people can't responsibly handle the freedom of the internet then they should be punished for it, otherwise they'll never learn. They're behaving like children and everyone is letting it slide, because we don't want to sacrifice our precious freedom to insult, swear and be an asshole. Freedom of expression my ass. People don't deserve any freedom if they can't handle it.

I'm slightly exaggerating here, because I do agree that solving this problem has to happen on multiple levels (not solely by disciplining and punishing people) and a lot of it can be solved by changing how much you value what these meaningless people are saying. However, so many people are indirectly defending all this irresponsible and inconsiderate behaviour, by talking about not sacrificing freedom of expression or growing thicker skins. I think a lot of people need clear and strict rules in order to function and even be happy. If I've learned anything from the internet it's that a lot people are very stubborn, have very strict definitions and world views and tend to freak out when others disagree. These people need clear limits, they need to be held responsible and they should experience repurcussions for acting inconsiderately. If that makes me a dictator, then so be it.

Good point. The internet is a public environment where you constantly interact with other people, so I feel rules from a physical public environment (even though they might be harder to maintain) can be applied in some cases. It'll be much harder to hold people responsible for their actions, but I think there could be a little more order than there is now.

Swearing and insulting can be inconsiderate, but I have no idea where you get the notion that to prohibit such actions doesn't compromise our freedoms. How does it not? That's exactly what it's doing and is ultimately what this whole thread boils down to. And no, the law couldn't be bothered to care about who we are as people or if we are selfish, it only cares in so much as our actions do not physically infringe upon others (with a few exceptions, such a libel or slander laws). People still ARE inconsiderate animals even with laws in place. They're there not to make us nice people, but to maintain order and make the world a safer place to live in.

You say if people can't responsibly handle the freedom of the Internet they should be punished for it; I say if people can't handle the irresponsibility of others using the Internet they should exercise their right not to use it. Of course there is a line, I'm not talking of someone using the net to stalk you in RL, but such things as simply using derogatory terms as is the case here. To punish someone for such a thing? C'mon.....sticks and stones, man. "Deal with it" is a much more effective method than having to implement numerous extensive nanny measures to ensure the precious sensibilities of those easily offended are not transgressed upon. "People don't deserve any freedom if they can't handle it". I would agree with that sentiment when someone goes out on a mass shooting spree. I would not when I'm simply told I "got raped!" in a MP match. I think I'll manage.

I resent the implication that I'm excusing intolerance simply because I desire freedom of expression. The first is just an unfortunate consequence of valuing the second. Again, I'm not advocating or excusing rudeness or intolerance at all, just a much thicker skin, and yes, the ability to say what one wishes. I don't care for these douches online. Sure, I'd prefer they not be there in an ideal world, but my ability to speak freely if I so choose is far more important and if having to deal with a little brashness and immaturity is the cost of that, then so be it. And if it bothers me so much? I mute them, which is a feature nearly universal in any online gaming community and something the TC curiously fails to mention. I believe people need to be policed only as far as they present a threat to a person's physical safety. And I'm sorry, but mere name-calling doesn't constitute that. When it comes to my mind and my feelings, that's all on my terms in how it affects me and how I deal with it, and that's the way it should remain.

Kiddie crap. They're usually the demographic that needs to have big-sounding and exaggerated words. Back in my online days with Doom/Quake/Duke3D, very few kids had their own PCs. The likelihood that I'm playing against adults was very high. We never needed to use ownage words aside from those in-game. I never even bothered with taunting. Kill em and move on.

I wasn't aware that online games can be considered therapy.

Our freedom to what? To not think before we say things, to say whatever we like in a rude manner without any consideration, to behave childishly and aggressively because things don't go the way we want it to, to insult others instead of taking responsibility? Such actions serve no purpose and benefit noone. Limiting the possibilities to behave like that won't make us any less free than we already are. But again, that's a personal perspective. I think taking action against such behaviour won't limit my freedom in any way. Don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiment and especially in the case of swearing it's very hard to decide what's acceptable and what isn't. But as platinumking320 mentioned, more effort could be put in making this crap a little less easy to pull off (at least in specific sections).

Fair point, I did not phrase that part very well. Still, making the world a safer place can also be seen as making the world a more pleasant place. And forcing people to behave through law might seem like a scary prospect, but I really think it's what most people desire. And I know 'mental' infringement is a tricky area that's hard to monitor (and there are a lot of negative examples), but it should be taken more seriously. Not everyone is a master at dealing with it and to me it makes sense to offer at least basic protection against this kind of mental abuse. If people get physically harmed, you can't simply expect them (for various reasons) to work out and grow muscles (or buy a gun) to defend themselves, nor can you expect people to simply deal with it when they get bashed with words for no reason. The point is the people who swear and insult aren't being addressed here, they face no consequences; they're just being ignored. I don't think that's right.

As would I. Maybe I'm not entirely informed about the context in the thread that preceded this one. And 'punish' sounds a bit harsh, but some form of consequence could help. I'll refrain from discussing this further. I feel I perhaps blew this issue out of proportion. I still feel people are getting away with this type of behaviour too easily (even if it's just about using derogatory terms), but I understand why people might see stricter rules as questionable...

Look, in my country people swear with diseases a lot. Now, with diseases that aren't very contemporary anymore (typhus, plague) this is less of a problem than with words like 'cancer'. As a child I used to swear with 'cancer' a lot, until I was confronted by someone who had a cancer patient in the family. That person might have to learn how to deal with people using that word, but he also has a right to question and criticise my swearing, because in the end there's no reason to use that word. I was and will always be the one at fault here. On the internet people simply get away with saying whatever they like every single time; they can swear and avoid any form of confrontation.

Yeah, that's where we disagree. I think that to a certain extent you can (and should be able to) force people to behave when it comes to how they treat other people emotionally and mentally. But again, that opinion is largely based on personal ideals.

Or they committed suicide

http://nobullying.com/six-unforgettable-cyber-bullying-cases/

Censoring someone from harassing others online with profanity and vulgarities is not an infringement on people's rights and freedom of speech. It boggles my mind how some people can think that it is. Anyway I'm all for punishing people that harass others in this manner online. If I encounter such a person online I promptly report the offender even if it's not me that they are harassing. I'd recommend for others to do the same. Hopefully people will either learn to stop harassing others or be removed from the game's community.

And despite that being sad Bran the problem here is the parents and teachers and other adults around these kids who were blind to how their kid had it and knew when to pull the plug on their online life.

But also not to forget that sometimes no one can do anything and it's always tragic when a young person in the beginning of their life decides that is the only way out but those things should never be used to censor other people.

Cyber bullying in an unfortunate reality nowadays. But people commit suicide for many reasons. Last week, a 54 year old lady in my neighborhood got naked and committed suicide by jumping off the roof of a tall building. Depression can stem from many occurrences, cyber bullying included. In the end, the worst thing you can do is keep dark thoughts bottled up and not tell anyone what's on your mind.

That is a very dangerous slope your talking about there Loafofgame, you are advocating censorship, and that is something i am personally very much against even in more serious cases, people should have the right to say what they want, since people always have the right to stop listening.

Like in the case of rape, it is terrible that someone have to go through traumas like that, but it shouldn't prevent others who are just saying a word from saying that word. When there are other ways to avoid hearing it.

Again a minority should never force a majority to endure restrictions because that minority have a problem when it comes to freedom of speech.

Mute buttons

Party chat

Not using a headset

I wish these were options.

People say a lot of things they don't mean, they're just being douches. If you're so easily offended, then use the mute button or don't bother playing online games. Geez.

@Jacanuk: Parents and guardians are a major factor, but to only speak of them might be considered as an ignoring of adult users who suffer from cyberbullying and mental conditions. The most terrible issue about bullying is that it is not prevented, but also ignoring the bullies is a lacking answer and the same can be said for removing victims from digital environments because they are not the same as tangible ones.

@HipHopBeats: The best thing that a person can do is report the issue that is a bother which is what this thread is about. People like @trollop_scat may be in a state of seemingly adamant denial currently, but there is a noticeable change going on in which people are speaking, writing articles about, and discussing the fact that enough is enough. Website administration and game companies have taken notice and are in favor of changes.

Telling someone to "get raped" after winning a round of online multiplayer, making a female uncomfortable simply because of her gender, and a variety of other comments are not stimulating in any way other than righteous indignation. To be proud to be on the wrong side in those situations is an interesting idea. Anger can be a strong motivator and to welcome that challenge is respectable. At the same time, excess shows a lack of self-control and typically the best players do not need to talk like that which is in part because they know other masters. Doing so can result in a sense of camaraderie. Otherwise, the very idea that it is stimulating in a likeable sense is sadistic of those who do it and masochistic of those who wish for a continuation of it.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am for competition. My favorite memories of video games regardless of how family friendly (Super Smash Bros.) or gory (Gears of War) are of events in which we had uplifting rather than denigrating experiences. I also know that uncouth talk is meant to disrupt a person or team's logical thinking and make it more emotional and thereby controllable. As I already said, though, that tactic is collectively used in excess and leads to people getting reported and banned which is why I will suggest now that @trollop_scat be more mindful of what he or she types in the future. With a broader scope, it is also why people become depressed and commit suicide because they believe their goals can be attained no longer. If the most uncouth of users could do everyone a favor and change their behavior, our social environments would be much better. In the event that request is not acknowledged, they can isolate themselves to private rooms.

@BranKetra: I agree but reporting someone online saying 'you got raped' only resolves the issue on that particular playing field (Xbox, PS or whatever). In the real world, there is no 'report', 'block' or 'ban hammer' button to cast down on ignorant people who act like this.

What I was saying is for the OP to realize that at some point, they will most likely be in a situation where they have to deal with an idiot with no one around to police the situation.

That's where dealing with and learning how to properly access the situation comes into play. Suicide is never the answer and believe me, I know all about depression and feeling hopeless.

The same way we can workout our bodies and improve our physical state, we can also workout our mind and spirit to become stronger mentally and spiritually to walk away (if that is an option) or not let words do us in. It's not an easy feat, but learning to fell secure about your flaws and bad experiences is what will ultimately, you out more in the long run.

Realistically speaking, the best we can do is learn to become stronger individuals, mentally and spiritually and build up a resistance to demonic words and degrading labels.

Sure we can report people online, get devs to monitor online gaming, but what happens in the real world when the OP is out and about in a public setting and someone says to their friend 'you got raped last night in that COD match!' What will the OP do? Go home, feel bad and create another thread about random strangers using the word 'rape'?

Please bear in mind I am in no way belittling the OP's opinions, but merely suggesting that the best way to bring about change is to start with yourself. Change the way you let words affect you. Change the way you react to ignorance and idiocy. Change starts from within.

@HipHopBeats: You call away from computers and video games the real world, but I believe calling it being away from your computer or offline is more accurate because they are both comprised of real people and we are not a level that could be considered virtual reality, yet. In those situations, there are a variety of responses at the disposal of an individual. In public situations, walking away is one like you said and that also applies to when alone with a toxic individual. In a work environment, talking with Human Resources can lead to disciplinary action and an overall more balanced workplace. To my knowledge, today in 1st world countries, it is only on the internet that people believe large groups of people can act terribly and there be little repercussions.

@trollop_scat: What you described is simply trolling which I consider boring, ironically. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for the rest of us, your insults are not allowed here at the very least and the same is true for your trolling. Whether or not you learn from that is your prerogative.

There are proper contexts in which to utter the word rape. Swearing and insult within a game environment aren't such contexts. I'm not talking about censoring society at large. This is about the very strictly confined space of a videogame. Every game has strict rules. Not being allowed to swear can be considered a game rule, just like not hitting someone below the belt in boxing is considered a game rule. It safeguards sportsmanship (or gamemanship if you like). The majority of sports have rules to make sure people don't behave inappropriately or show disrespect. Tennis has ball abuse penalties, in football (soccer) you can receive a yellow or red card for foul language or insult, etc. Why are videogames any different in that regard? Swearing and insult do not aid the game, they have no tactical advantage, they serve no purpose within the game. It isn't even an opinion, it's just vented frustration. It has no place in the game field. If you can't respect your opponents you shouldn't play the game. To me this kind of stuff makes sense within the context of the game. Instead of telling people on the receiving end to deal with it, I'd say we tell the people who swear and insult to deal with it. Instead of telling people on the receiving end to use that mute button, I'd say we tell the people who swear and insult to mute themselves and swear in their own personal space, not in a public environment.

There is very little freedom within the context of a game. There are a myriad of rules that limit your options. That's the whole idea of a game. Limiting what you are allowed to say is just another game rule. It has nothing to do with what you (wish to) say outside the game context. It's about being a good sport and respecting your opponents. The fact that I'm not allowed to say certain things within the game doesn't limit my general freedom of speech in any way. It's part of the game.

Exactly. And we're not even talking about the internet as a whole in this thread. This is about a game you play with other people. I doubt people would collectively ignore swearing or insult if they were playing a physical board game or a sport (even if those situations came with a mute button). There are behavioural rules in most games and sports and there should be in-game consequences if you can't behave within the game. I don't see why videogames are any different.

There's no way you can really moderate something like that online. It sounds cliche, but the best thing to do is ignore them. There's tools in most online games where you can mute players and in some cases, report them for their behaviour. Do that, avoid confrontation, it's a waste of time.

Whenever I hear a slur tossed at me I laugh it off. I have no time for it. All I know is I was raised better than people like that ever could be and I'm far more educated. They're literally not even on my level and not worth the effort.

The fact that you seen no infringement upon your freedoms just because you don't engage in such behavior yourself in no way means that that infringement doesn't exist upon those that wish to do so, however detestable you believe their usage and context to be. It is currently part of the majority of online games available, you wish to change it, hence you're proposing censorship. Of course you don't see any loss of rights because you choose not to exercise them in the first place.

In the online arena I've heard pretty much anything and everything the Internet has to offer. I don't know how familiar you are with sports Loaf, but a significant part of playing some is disrespecting and demeaning one's opponents. It's natural to competition. Personally, I don't see this so much intended as a personal slander as it is an attempt at psychological impact to lessen the morale (and drive up the frustration/anger through trying to give offense) of the opponent to get them flustered and pissed so they start playing poorly, or as that woman did, gave up altogether. You claim there is no "aid" or "tactical advantage" in behaving like an asshole and I could not possibly disagree more. I understand more dignified sports such as Tennis and Golf do not suite this approach but heavily physical ones such as Football and Rugby thrive off of it, and many of the online games so many act similar are cut from the same cloth. There's huge psychological elements at play.

I actually enjoy it when someone speaks to me negatively in a game, because firstly, I know I'm secure in myself enough to not let it get to me mentally or offend me to the point of trauma (and I can mute if I wish), and secondly, because it gives me further incentives to play better, win, and rub that little bastard's nose in defeat and have him/her eat their words while laughing at their rantings all the while as they get more and more enraged. It's hilarious.

Can I do this as effectively by playing as/with Mr. Rodgers? No. A large portion of competition is a massive, mental aggressive mind-****, just as it is physical, if not more so. In gaming, especially more so because that physiological intimidation aspect is absent. And like it or not, the implementation of harsh language is part of this. Why should this relevant psychological element be so heavily toned down and/or eradicated entirely for those who know how to conduct themselves but still wish to use terms that could be seen as offensive by others because someone else can't help but think the world owes them consideration towards their feelings? That it should be sensitive to their past hurtful experiences, which we've all endured in some way or another, and rather than taking the energy to address their issues will instead argue and push for a full-out Barney-fying of the online gaming community? It's fun to talk to people when playing against them and attempt to get under their skin--it's fun to toy with their minds--it's part of the experience and satisfaction of having a good multiplayer match. And yes, potentially offensive words enable this.

I hate to generalize, but I find people who allow themselves to take things so personally and get so riled up by insults by such a relatively minor activity need to expand their scope and come to realize how insignificant this is when compared to what really warrants attention. I'll say it again: there's mute and there's ignore. I have utilized both and have continued to much enjoyment, and to further start banning people due to using slang that is largely inherent to the nature of competition (like rape could easily be), is quite frankly, complete bullshit. Nevermind from a freedom of expression viewpoint, but simply a competitive one. I'm sure as hell not going to let little Johnny or his offendees take away my prerogative to use words and slang in a manner I find appropriate and effective to the situation I'm engaged in without a fight, especially when we all hold the power to ignore it not only mentally, but physically as well if it comes to that.

Ultimately, I would say if this is such an issue, don't play online, utilize the mute, or reside solely inside the Nintendo Nanny State in their carefully monitored family friendly online ecosystem (from what I've heard, anyway). It's always annoyed me that people think they should be afforded courtesy and respect by default. While I give it out myself, I always view it from others as a privilege to be grateful for, not a right to be enforced or entitled to. That's dangerous territory.

Just to be clear, I never denied any of this. I made clear that this was a personal perspective.

I am familiar with sports and there's also a similarly significant part that involves respecting your opponent. I understand the psychological warfare that is going on in many sports and there are many ways to effectively intimidate an opponent, but swearing and insult are questionable additions in my opinion. But you are right, it was wrong of me to suggest that there is no tactical advantage or aid to swearing and insult. Still, I do think that even in Football and especially Rugby there's more respect than in any online videogame and I have learned from practical experience that intimidating your opponent is not the same as disrespecting or demeaning your opponent. That is not how I see competition, certainly not in a game or sports context. But maybe that's a cultural thing. Anyway, swearing and insult are often (not always) signs of weakness and being unable to cope with a situation and I cannot sympathise with that. Again, most people are simply venting their frustration and that has nothing to do with the game. I also feel people who do it are tapping into tactics that have little to do with the game itself. And I disagree that football and rugby thrive off of such behaviour. I never experienced it like that and I have played football for many years. There's an important mental aspect, sure, but in the end it is about your actual game skills.

Why do football and rugby have rules that inhibit certain physical actions? Why can't we just do whatever is necessary to reach our goal? Why are those physical rules acceptable within the game context and somehow limits on what you can say aren't? Why am I not allowed to pull someone's shirt during a football match? It is a very effective strategy to stop the other player from getting away from me and scoring a goal. I'm not even hurting the person in question. You can intimidate your opponent in many ways, even with words, but swearing and insult are unnecessary additions in that regard. Imposing limits on freedom is inherent to all games, but apparently imposing certain specific limits is unacceptable, because it compromises our freedom of expression? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Will you let the game developer take away that prerogative...?

I'll stop here, because we are not going to agree on the matter. I'll try to meet you somewhere in the middle. This is about a game. The person who makes a game makes up the rules. And we, as players, have to respect those rules. Now, I can go on and on about how I find it objectionable that people are allowed to swear and insult in online games, but if the game allows it, then I guess I have to deal with it. But in that case I don't think anyone has a right to whine when such an option is absent in another game, because within a game freedom is limited and not being allowed to swear or even speak is just another game rule.

Just to be clear, I'm not someone who is affected by online swearing or insult. I have to admit I do not play online that often, because I generally suck at competitive videogames (due to lack of skill, not lack of backbone), so these games tend to get boring for me pretty quickly. But when I do play online, people are often quick to let me know how much I suck in less than flattering terms. These people don't interest me and I don't care for their opinions. I am perfectly capable of dealing with it, but such behaviour is not something I condone or respect and to me it is most certainly not necessary to enjoy or play a good game. If not being able to swear or insult makes you enjoy the game less, then... I don't know... I personally find that incomprehensible. But you and I clearly disagree on that part. But again, to me, within the confined space of a game, not allowing swearing is just as objectionable as allowing it.

@loafofgame: Excellent posts and ones that I definitely agree with.

@MirkoS77: You just echoed what I said earlier, so I'll elaborate a little as nicely as possible so BranKetra doesn't once again use his trembling hand to delete my informative post that doesn't support the cowardly gist of this thread...

I've been on the internet since 1999 - a time when it was full of adult white males who enjoyed talking smack and posting pictures of naked women. Thanks to the big web sites that emerged from the muck, and all the women, children, and minorities who joined on-line communities, the 'net is nowhere nearly as impressive as it was because there are rules on top of rules attempting to soften and dumb down everything so everyone can participate. What used to be an unruly college classroom is now like a southern suburban schoolhouse that puts everything from first graders to twelfth graders in the same big room.

I was an undergraduate in those days and entered flame competitions against very bright men who wove between logic/humor/and viciousness like true masters of the Word, proving sharp minds stay sharp by jousting against other sharp minds. It took days to compose proper retorts, full of photoshops, jokes, and culminating with a final crushing point. Winning those huge flame wars was glorious, but even losing them against the baddest guys wasn't shameful because you could say "Good match" afterwards and get complemented on your work that came up just a bit short of victory. I would pump out papers for English and History in a matter of hours, but painstakingly pour every ounce of my ability in the posts I submitted in proper flame wars on sites that have become all but extinct by now.

And now thanks to time and on-line culture change I see how spineless and helpless its denizens have become, starting threads like this one. Spelling and grammar are gone, fighting spirit is nowhere to be seen, mods walk the halls with their mops and brooms like good little janitors working for pats on their heads. It's disgusting. I've seen threads full of the most brutal text, horrible pictures, personal information used against people, etc but I prefer that to sites full of annoying rules and censorship.

I'm a borderline great guy in real life, I never publicly curse or use any racist terms and am always a gentleman to ladies, regardless of their looks and girth. Little things go wrong sometimes and I just smile about it in the real world. But when I sit down in front of my 30" monitor at home I'm ready to let loose and play the game of verbal war against any and all for fun, or play a game with strangers and burn doughnut holes through them by the time our game is over, regardless the digital victor.

Anyway, feel free to talk bad about me or to me whenever you want - you'll be surprised how intense and fun it can be. To give you creeps a healthy head start, here's my pic (it's four days old):

Save that pic because this post will probably be deleted by a noodle-armed muderator who drops to his or her knees to scrub real hard like one did my previous honest post. Hit me as hard as you can whenever you want - I'll be waiting for you...

@trollop_scat: You've been here since '06 so I know you know the rules of GS don't permit such things, so if it bothers you that much, why are you here? A community like 4***n is much more suited to that kind of atmosphere.

Personally, I'd love to be able to say anything here without consequences, but it is what it is. Most of us aren't going to risk our accounts just to put some anon in their place.

I'm not trying to be funny but for all these years I seriously didn't think people were using it to mean like a sexual rape. Everyone else was talking about having sex with each other? You guys were seriously running around saying "I just forcibly had anal sex with you!"

Seriously, what is wrong with everybody?? Look, I'm not some sheltered little kid or something. I understood the "kill yourself" and "die in a fire" nonsense. But I had no idea about the rape thing. It was just used so casually I figured no one actually meant they were having sex with each other. I guess I always figured the die in a fire people might have meant it that way but I had no idea every body else did. Whatever, consider my mind blown.

Then use the mute button, It's there for a reason.

So you can mute those that you don't want to listen to.

Or if you really get offended by them, not only mute them but also report them. It's not rocket science.

@trollop_scat: If you would like to know why you were moderated, you are welcome to PM the moderation team which will be happy to explain it to you in logical terms. Otherwise, your passive-aggressive taunts only tell me that you are compensating for something. Also, I have had plenty of debates with many individuals who are quite intelligent and they do not criticize unless necessary. Vice-versa, flame-battles typically serve little purpose, intellectually. Good luck with them.

What is freedom without oversight?

It is anarchy.

In an earlier post, I mentioned the very same thing you mentioned as the reasoning why players talk foul to their opponents or even their teammates (if applicable). I am surprised it was ignored. I believe a large portion of what is said can be instead utilized differently for more actual competitive play rather than talking. My experiences with video games and sports have affirmed that belief in the form of my skills as a player. Rather than using a portion of my energies to return foul-language, I focus on the gameplay. Being bombarded with foul communication actually is something I am unwilling to pay for and money talks, so-to-speak. Why anyone would pay for that is a curious thing.