The Official Assassin's Creed Spoiler Discussion thread.

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#1 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
So I just finished Assassin's Creed 3. I played through the whole series again earlier this year(except Revelations- I had to settle on watching the "The Story So Far..." segment here on Gamespot for that one) in preparation for it. Now, just in case the thread title didn't make this absolutely clear, this is a spoiler discussion, and there will be no spoilertags to save the uninitiated. That being said- Desmond unlocks the vault, saves the world, does his part to enslave all of mankind and dies, all in a span of five minutes. In the end, it turns out that my suspicion was both dead on, and wildly off the mark. I had expected Desmond would be betrayed by his dad(a parallel I drew from Connor's story+Lucy and Cross's betrayals), and the Templars would win the conflict and enslave mankind. It turns out that Desmond became the ultimate Templar by handing over all of mankind to Juno's not-so-tender embrace. I am not entirely satisfied with the ending. What did you make of it? Given the choice of saving billions of lives at the cost of enslaving them instead, or letting the world fry and starting the whole cycle over again, what would you choose? And beyond all that, were there any loose threads you picked out?
#2 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
And beyond all that, were there any loose threads you picked out?El_Zo1212o
The way I see it, the Truth from Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood left at least two threads untied, possibly three, depending on your interpretation: Eve. Clay Kaczmarek(Sibject 16) told you to find Eve in Eden. The Key. He said that her(Eve's) DNA is the key. But the key we spent the last 15-20 hours searching for was a relic. The Son. He says, "the sun... your son(sun?)..." I figured he had to mean 'your sOn' because there wouldn't have been any need to specify which sun he was talking about if he meant the sun in the sky. But Desmond doesn't have a son, and due to the ending, he will never have a son. Thoughts?
#3 Posted by HipHopBeats (2899 posts) -

The real discussion should be which ending is worse? ME3 or AC3? From what I saw on youtube, it looked like Desmond might be replaced by a new protagonist if he's not indeed dead. I don't think Desmond chose to let the Templars win. Desmond chose to free Juno because of the hopeless future Minerva revealed to him. Maybe AC4 will pick up with Juno as the main antagonist along with the Templars. It doesn't make sense for Desmond to spend 4 games training as an Assassin only to die without even having a final showdown moment of glory.

Who was the new dude talking that hacked his way in the animus after the end credits and who was he talking too in the convo about finding new pivot points? Connor shaving his head looks like a Max Payne 3 moment. Overall the ending is pretty disappointing. Maybe in AC4 you be playing as someone who is reliving Desmond's memories. Now THAT would be a twist!

#4 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -

The real discussion should be which ending is worse? ME3 or AC3? From what I saw on youtube, it looked like Desmond might be replaced by a new protagonist if he's not indeed dead. I don't think Desmond chose to let the Templars win. Desmond chose to free Juno because of the hopeless future Minerva revealed to him. Maybe AC4 will pick up with Juno as the main antagonist along with the Templars. It doesn't make sense for Desmond to spend 4 games training as an Assassin only to die without even having a final showdown moment of glory.

Who was the new dude talking that hacked his way in the animus after the end credits and who was he talking too in the convo about finding new pivot points? Connor shaving his head looks like a Max Payne 3 moment. Overall the ending is pretty disappointing. Maybe in AC4 you be playing as someone who is reliving Desmond's memories. Now THAT would be a twist!

HipHopBeats
I fully expected a Mass Effect 3 comparison. It isn't so much that Desmond chose to let the Templars win- it was that he chose the Templar ideal(slavery) win out over the Assassin ideal(free will). But then, when you look at the whole picture(and this was pretty clear to me after replaying Assassin's Creed 2), neither ideal was better- or even more honorable- than the other. The choise was to doom the whole planet and relieve a cycle that had gone on for 70,000 years- and if the solar flare was a cyclical event, that would mean this whole thing had gone around 11 or 12 times- or to end the cycle by finally changing the outcome. But that outcome was repugnant. The ending- while certainly not satisfying- was very complex, and ultimately worthy, in my opinion, of the series. Now, an animus hack? After the ending, all I got was a small cutscene of Juno standing over Desmond's body and saying, "Desmond, you played your part well. Not I will play MINE!" And then I sat through the rest of the credits. There wasn't anything compelling in the sidequests for me, and I saw nothing like the Truth to seek out, so maybe that has something to do with why I didn't get that part. Hell, the only time I(as Connor) set foot in a shop was when Achilles sent me in. I never bought any weapons, I didn't participate in the metagame, and I only did what side missions and liberation missions I happened to stumble onto. AC3 just wasn't enthralling to me the way AC2 and Brotherhood were. Was there some version of the Truth? And two last things- One, Desmond did have a moment of glory: when he took on Abstergo to rescue his old man. And two, I suspected that Desmond was an ancestor himself since Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, but I just don't see how that could be, unless he and Rebecca snuck off somewhere(likely after her I don't want to die" email), but I just don't think it's plausible.
#5 Posted by HipHopBeats (2899 posts) -

I fully expected a Mass Effect 3 comparison. It isn't so much that Desmond chose to let the Templars win- it was that he chose the Templar ideal(slavery) win out over the Assassin ideal(free will). But then, when you look at the whole picture(and this was pretty clear to me after replaying Assassin's Creed 2), neither ideal was better- or even more honorable- than the other. The choise was to doom the whole planet and relieve a cycle that had gone on for 70,000 years- and if the solar flare was a cyclical event, that would mean this whole thing had gone around 11 or 12 times- or to end the cycle by finally changing the outcome. But that outcome was repugnant. The ending- while certainly not satisfying- was very complex, and ultimately worthy, in my opinion, of the series. Now, an animus hack? After the ending, all I got was a small cutscene of Juno standing over Desmond's body and saying, "Desmond, you played your part well. Not I will play MINE!" And then I sat through the rest of the credits. There wasn't anything compelling in the sidequests for me, and I saw nothing like the Truth to seek out, so maybe that has something to do with why I didn't get that part. Hell, the only time I(as Connor) set foot in a shop was when Achilles sent me in. I never bought any weapons, I didn't participate in the metagame, and I only did what side missions and liberation missions I happened to stumble onto. AC3 just wasn't enthralling to me the way AC2 and Brotherhood were. Was there some version of the Truth? And two last things- One, Desmond did have a moment of glory: when he took on Abstergo to rescue his old man. And two, I suspected that Desmond was an ancestor himself since Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, but I just don't see how that could be, unless he and Rebecca snuck off somewhere(likely after her I don't want to die" email), but I just don't think it's plausible.El_Zo1212o

Duely noted. That part where Desmond rescues his father was indeed a moment of glory for him. I just expected some clarification as to Desmond finally fulfilling his purpose but in the end like you said it all came down to a bittersweet decision to let the cycle continue. If Juno had this planned all along, why have Desmond kill Lucy who would have ended up helping her in the long run since the Templars are bent on world domination?

There is definitely more to the ending and maybe that Animus hacking scenario where Connor shaves his head has something to do with completing side quests or getting 100% sync. The reason I find the ending disappointing is because it brings more questions like what exactly is Juno going to do and who will take Desmond's place or any of his team for that matter since the person who hacked the animus is a new unknown. I didn't beat Brotherhood yet but I will pay close attention to the part you mentioned about 'your sun'.

#6 Posted by Everiez (1946 posts) -

From what I've seen, First Civ or Juno is going to have control back over their creation (human). Just like how it supposed to be in the past before war broke between them and human. This time she has the device that can greatly minimize the impact of sun's flare and this will ensure her control to last longer if not forever. She isn't Templar. Templar/Abstergo isn't part of her grand plan. Lucy was hindrance to her plan. Letting her alive means Templar/Abstergo will take control and Juno will stuck forever inside that sphere. How Juno will rule over mankind? Maybe she could be better than Templar.

Oh and I've been wondering about the vision Juno gave in third power room, the man she's with. Was he human or FC? In second power room, the vision showed us same men model but they were being controlled by FC it seemed. I take it her lover was human or was that vision fake to deceive Desmon and Co. Bah, I don't know. The ending raised more new questions.

#7 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
3

...If Juno had this planned all along, why have Desmond kill Lucy who would have ended up helping her in the long run since the Templars are bent on world domination?

There is definitely more to the ending and maybe that Animus hacking scenario where Connor shaves his head has something to do with completing side quests or getting 100% sync. The reason I find the ending disappointing is because it brings more questions like what exactly is Juno going to do and who will take Desmond's place or any of his team for that matter since the person who hacked the animus is a new unknown. I didn't beat Brotherhood yet but I will pay close attention to the part you mentioned about 'your sun'.

HipHopBeats
Damn. I wish I'd run across something like the glyphs that made it painfully apparent that something awesome was going to happen if I did such-and-such. Now wondering about this animus hacking scene is killing me... but anyway- Juno had Lucy killed because if Lucy had brought the apple to Abstergo, the team would have wasted the last of their time hunting down the apple, Lucy, and trying to stop the Eye Abstergo. That would mean the whole world would burn, and Juno would be stuck in her prison for another 6-10 millennia, if not forever. I'm not sure about what other questions there can be, but if there is another Assassin's Creed that used the entire Desmond cycle as a springboard, then it would have to be far future, as I can't imagine Juno would have wasted any time in getting her stranglehold on mankind. And again, how could they shoehorn in a decendant?

From what I've seen, First Civ or Juno is going to have control back over their creation (human). Just like how it supposed to be in the past before war broke between them and human. This time she has the device that can greatly minimize the impact of sun's flare and this will ensure her control to last longer if not forever. She isn't Templar. Templar/Abstergo isn't part of her grand plan. Lucy was hindrance to her plan. Letting her alive means Templar/Abstergo will take control and Juno will stuck forever inside that sphere. How Juno will rule over mankind? Maybe she could be better than Templar.

Oh and I've been wondering about the vision Juno gave in third power room, the man she's with. Was he human or FC? In second power room, the vision showed us same men model but they were being controlled by FC it seemed. I take it her lover was human or was that vision fake to deceive Desmon and Co. Bah, I don't know. The ending raised more new questions.

Everiez
Juno isn't a Templar, but there is very strong imagery that ties the two together- in the third power room you describe, you climb the glowing columns, shimmy to the left, sideleap over a gap, rotate to the right, shimmy to the right, and land on a higher platform. Just before you drop, you'll notice that the last handhold is a shape etched into the stone- a long vertical line with two shorter horizontal cross arms- a symbol you see commonly around the Abstergo building. It seems likely to me that, just as Desmond and the Assassins(and their ideology) are descended from Adam, the Templars(and their ideology) would be passed down from, say, Cain? Which would be a metaphor for First humans who ascribed to the mastery of the First Civilization's rule? I remember seeing that symbol when I placed the first powersource. The path to the 2nd power source opened up, and I went to explore it, too. My first thought was that it was trouble- and in my road. Turns out I was right, even if I had vastly underestimated exactly how big the trouble would be. "Maybe Juno would be better than the Templars"? Not bloody likely- did you read her last few emails? She resolutely detests mankind! Not only for the decimation of her kind- which she attributes to the war they started to gain their freedom- but just for their very nature! She wants nothing better than to put her vastly technologically superior boot on the back of mankind's collective neck. The Templars at least meant to do it for the good of mankind. And lastly, taking the Bible as the 'whisper game' words of the last cycle's attempt to explain the beginning, man was made in the image of the first civilization, so it makes sense that the would look similar, but I believe Juno's love was a member of the first civilization, but with all his shiny duds removed.
#8 Posted by Everiez (1946 posts) -

Juno isn't a Templar, but there is very strong imagery that ties the two together- in the third power room you describe, you climb the glowing columns, shimmy to the left, sideleap over a gap, rotate to the right, shimmy to the right, and land on a higher platform. Just before you drop, you'll notice that the last handhold is a shape etched into the stone- a long vertical line with two shorter horizontal cross arms- a symbol you see commonly around the Abstergo building. It seems likely to me that, just as Desmond and the Assassins(and their ideology) are descended from Adam, the Templars(and their ideology) would be passed down from, say, Cain? Which would be a metaphor for First humans who ascribed to the mastery of the First Civilization's rule? I remember seeing that symbol when I placed the first powersource. The path to the 2nd power source opened up, and I went to explore it, too. My first thought was that it was trouble- and in my road. Turns out I was right, even if I had vastly underestimated exactly how big the trouble would be. "Maybe Juno would be better than the Templars"? Not bloody likely- did you read her last few emails? She resolutely detests mankind! Not only for the decimation of her kind- which she attributes to the war they started to gain their freedom- but just for their very nature! She wants nothing better than to put her vastly technologically superior boot on the back of mankind's collective neck. The Templars at least meant to do it for the good of mankind. And lastly, taking the Bible as the 'whisper game' words of the last cycle's attempt to explain the beginning, man was made in the image of the first civilization, so it makes sense that the would look similar, but I believe Juno's love was a member of the first civilization, but with all his shiny duds removed.El_Zo1212o

Man, I didn't see the symbol and there is no way to see it now cause no "Exit Animus" option. You're right that Juno is unlikely to be better than Templar. I forgot her hate email on mankind.

So many sad moment in AC3. No bitter sweet ending. Connor didn't achieve what he wanted, childhood friend died by his hand and his people got chased away by the one he supported. In present time, both Assassin and Templar are screwed because they wasted time fighting eachother. Well, it's not like they can do anything about it without that sphere device since they discovered the dooms day few month prior to the sun flare.

I quite like the ending but not satisfied. I was hoping Tinia would show up to give a word or two, more screen time for epilogue on Juno and I want to know what William, Rebecca and Shaun would say.

#9 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing lol I will look into the Story Analysis and see what I can find....... I will come back here with my findings
#10 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
Alright, I have done some research and I have a few ideas. I know its inconvenient, but I figured it would be better to present my findings in a thread made just for it, so in about and hour or 2 a thread will be made for this.
#11 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
Just postem here- that's why I made the thread.
#12 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
Just postem here- that's why I made the thread.El_Zo1212o
Good point... I was just saying.... its a LONG research report, and if you are willing to read it for answers, then you should. Also, how do you make text bold?
#13 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
Like this? >strongstrong< <>strong<>or like this?<>strong<> >
#14 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
[ b] blah, blah, blah [ /b].
#15 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
Part 1 - Introduction................ This is a long Story Analysis, and not only is it long.... but it is difficult to comprehend. Ever since I finished the game, I have been studying and analyzing major events that occured in AC2, Brotherhood, Revelations, and yes, of course, AC3, and how all these events have major yet hard to see links that bring clarity to the events that transpired at the end of AC3. Be warned, as this may be very sifficult to comprehend and understand to some, and re-reading may be necessary to fully understand, so be prepared to experience some major Brain-Farts. ---------------------- Part 2 - Juno, the Apocalypse, Desmonds Fate, the future of the world, and how it all came to be............... First off: What were all the methods of salvation that Juno spoke of? These methods were designed and tested by the First Civilization to prevent a global catastrophe. All 6 Methods of Salvation were as so: Method #1: Building Towers that would absorb the solar flare Method #2: Erecting and energy shield that would deflect the solar flare Method #3: Using the suggestive power of Pieces of Eden to enjoin all sentinent minds to prevent the catastrophe Method #4: Divination: predicting the future with advanced mathematical machines to learn of a future solution and later to communicate with generations that might follow. (This was Minervas project) Method #5: Bio-Engineering: transforming themselves physically to resist the cataclys. (one test subject who volunteered for this project was Aita, Junos husband; she was later forced to kill him to relieve him of his suffering) Method #6: Transcendence: Transferring the mind from a body to another vessel. This is how Juno is still "alive", living within the Temples walls. There are a series of questions I had that I researched into and came to answers to. ___________________________________ What does Desmond mean when he says that he "chose" to kill Lucy? Prior to AC3, it had been implied that Desmond stabbed Lucy against his will, compelled by an unseen force presumed to be Juno. However, in a conversation with his father in the Grand Temple, he reveals that her death was his decision - a rational, conscious, calculated choice. Juno, Desmond reveals, merely, showed him a future in which Lucy stole the Apple and returned it to Abstergo.In Juno's vision, the Templar Corporation attempted to transport it it on board the Eye-Abstergo satellite, the culmination of plans unveiled in the original Assassin's Creed........ and yet, the launch was a failure. The mystery here is why Desmond, in a move that seems totally out of character, would deem a summary execution as the only resolution. If we assume that Ezios Piece of Eden was required to to open the Grand Temple - and that Juno could not simply admit chosen visitors from inside - then we can at least understand the need for keeping it safe. But as Desmonds father suggests, did Desmond make the decision, or was he merely being made to feel like he did? That Juno manipulated events in human history to serve her own ends is abundantly clear. The death of Lucy - no matter whose will plunged the blade into the triple agents abdomen - definitely suggests that Juno has the ability to actively control individuals, and not merely indoctrinate. Does Desmond really have no alternative at the end of the story? Once Desmond enters the Grand Temple's inner vault, the myriad variables in his life to that point culminate in a stark binary decision: a yes or no; Juno's offer accpeted or refused. To recap, his choices were: Choice #1: To live - and in doing so, allow the Catastrophe to occur, but prevent Juno from leaving her digital cellto enslave mankind. In this future, human civilization is brought to its knees by the effects of the Coronal Mass Ejection . Over 999.9% of the human population die, with small pockets of survivors - and their eventual offspring - reduced to a Bronze Age level of existence for many hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years. Choice #2: To sacrifice his life to free Juno and trust in her ability to deploy First Civilization technology to avert the Catastrophe, but potentially damn humanity to perpetual servitude - or, perhaps, worse. In that moment, on December 21st, 2012, Desmond and his companions have no oppurtunity to explore alternative actions: as the cutscene clearly shows, the end is well and truly nigh. Juno's plan was not to lead Desmond to the Grand Temple, but to engineer his arrival at a very specific point in time, when the Catastrophe would represent a gun that she could hold to the head of the world. How did Juno come to transfer her consciousness to the First Civilization machines? Minervas intervention at the close f the story reveals that that Juno deceived her scientific peers and, with the help of co-conspirators, attempted to foment a minor rebellion in her own time. Though the precise manner and magnitude of her of her betrayal is not clear, we at least know that Juno used the divination device in the Grand Temple to send a message that Desmond recieves at the end of Brotherhood: a distinctly bitter address, lest we forget, that culminated in the death of Lucy. When Minerva and Tinia discovered the conspiracy, they attacked and killed Juno and her followers. After transmitting a message across the ages (Tinia's rather more specific address to Desmond at the end of Revelations), they smashed the Grand Temple's divination sphere - the interface through which the technology could be used. They then sealed the vault, leaving the bodies of the traitors inside. Unfortunately, and in much the same way that a killer for hire might not readily comprehend the concept of a peer review, the scientists neglected to complete the classic "triple trap" - and Juno survived the attempt on her life. Whatever Juno's initial goals may have been in her time, the act of uploading herself into the First Civilization machines granted her the luxury of thousands of years to formulate a plan for her eventual rebirth. During the quasi-eternity that seperates the death of her race from Desmonds time, it seems that she guided individuals (such as Altair, Ezio, Desmond, Subject 16, and Connors Entire Tribe) along multiple paths that ultimatelyconverge at the point where Desmond lays his hand on the pedestal. Minerva's words suggest that that Juno's message to Desmond at the end of Brotherhood (concerning Eve and the First Civilization's interbreeding attempt) were essentially sabotage born of contempt for the rebellious slave race - to lead Desmond on a fool's errand and damn humanity to endure the second Catastrophe. However, certain lines in her message, with hindsight, may reveal and incalculably elaborate plan that took her discovery , death, and transcendence into acount. For example (a quote from Juno at the end of Brotherhood): "It is hard to stay contained knowing as we do. We wait for you, Desmond. you will Come here. you will activate it. You will know only when it is too late." More pressingly, it could be that her exhortation that Desmond find Eve was, in actual fact, a veiled allusion to Juno's resurrection by Desmonds (literal) hand. At the end of Brotherhood, Juno talked of the full power of the First Civilization "Sixth Sense", and insisted that he unlock its potential. What is interesting though, is that Juno introduces the First Civilization devices in a specific order during her discussions with Desmond in AC3. The "transcendence" method, tellingly, is the sixth - which lends a very different weight to the final cryptic words words of her address at the end of Brotherhood: "It is done. The way lies before you. Only she remains to be found. Awaken the sixth. __________________________________ Part 3 - Final Ideas.............. Ok, so there are other things I concluded to, but I give you the option to choose which one you want to hear the answer to: What is the significance of the Amulet? Are the First Civilization entities such as Minerva, Juno, and Tinia alive or dead? How can Juno manifest herself outside of the Grand Temple? Why Does Juno choose to focus so intently on Desmond? Why does Desmond so readily accept Juno's offer, aren't Assassins supposed to preserve free will at all costs? How does Juno stop the catastrophe? Why does Juno need Desmonds DNA? Who is the man who talks about hacking after the final credits? What does Juno hope to achieve?Might the Templars and Assassins Unite to fight Juno? Is Desmond really dead?Who can we expect to stand out in a future installment? Are there other ways to interpret the storys conclusion? _________________________________ My secondary view: They say that the Assassin VS. Templar war has been going on for far longer than 2,000 years....... what if Juno's goal to control all of the population and take away free will and Minerva and Tinias plan to stop her was where the Assassin VS. Templar war began? Seriously..... think about it.
#16 Posted by ReviewerDrake (766 posts) -

Regarding the Animus hack are you guys talking about the guy who talks to you when you go to Boston as Connor after finishing the game? If so that's just some extra crap if you unlock all the pivots you get cheat codes.....

#17 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
[QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Part 3 - Final Ideas.............. Ok, so there are other things I concluded to, but I give you the option to choose which one you want to hear the answer to: What is the significance of the Amulet? Are the First Civilization entities such as Minerva, Juno, and Tinia alive or dead? How can Juno manifest herself outside of the Grand Temple? Why Does Juno choose to focus so intently on Desmond? Why does Desmond so readily accept Juno's offer, aren't Assassins supposed to preserve free will at all costs? How does Juno stop the catastrophe? Why does Juno need Desmonds DNA? Who is the man who talks about hacking after the final credits? What does Juno hope to achieve?Might the Templars and Assassins Unite to fight Juno? Is Desmond really dead?Who can we expect to stand out in a future installment? Are there other ways to interpret the storys conclusion? _________________________________ My secondary view: They say that the Assassin VS. Templar war has been going on for far longer than 2,000 years....... what if Juno's goal to control all of the population and take away free will and Minerva and Tinias plan to stop her was where the Assassin VS. Templar war began? Seriously..... think about it.

An excellent rundown. First, I want to hear your opinions on all the questions you raised in part 3. Regarding you secondary view: it is mentioned throughout the series that even if one side or the other is completely wiped out, it is never gone entirely, because some day some one comes back around to revive the idea. Free will at all costs vs peace by any means seems to be two ideals ingrained in our very humanity, according to the fiction. Thus, it only makes sense to conclude that the war between the Assassins and the Templars has been going on ever since the first catastrophe 70,000 years ago. The names of the two sides undoubtedly changed every incarnation, but their goals would probably have been the same.That's why I suggested the biblical link between Adam/Abel/Seth and Eve/Cain could be the most recent incarnation's metaphor for the followers of Tinia/Minerva(Assassins) vs the followers of Juno(Templars). Or maybe not followers, but rather descendants of the interbreeding programs held by the 3 of them. The question I wonder about though is that if everything since, say, Moses, was a history of the most recent incarnation(meaning everything from Adam and the earliest bloodlines was a poorly retold metaphor for the fall of the first civilization)- and assuming the solar flare is a cyclical event every five or six thousand years- did Juno wait 70,000 years for Desmond, or did she try her little scheme with every incarnation?
#18 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -

Regarding the Animus hack are you guys talking about the guy who talks to you when you go to Boston as Connor after finishing the game?

ReviewerDrake
Wait- the animus hack takes place in free roam after the game ends? Who's running the Connor program after Desmond dies?(I didn't do much free roaming after the epilogue- I just assumed that the game switched out of the animus and put you in Connors real shoes from back then... interesting...
#19 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -
[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Part 3 - Final Ideas.............. Ok, so there are other things I concluded to, but I give you the option to choose which one you want to hear the answer to: What is the significance of the Amulet? Are the First Civilization entities such as Minerva, Juno, and Tinia alive or dead? How can Juno manifest herself outside of the Grand Temple? Why Does Juno choose to focus so intently on Desmond? Why does Desmond so readily accept Juno's offer, aren't Assassins supposed to preserve free will at all costs? How does Juno stop the catastrophe? Why does Juno need Desmonds DNA? Who is the man who talks about hacking after the final credits? What does Juno hope to achieve?Might the Templars and Assassins Unite to fight Juno? Is Desmond really dead?Who can we expect to stand out in a future installment? Are there other ways to interpret the storys conclusion? _________________________________ My secondary view: They say that the Assassin VS. Templar war has been going on for far longer than 2,000 years....... what if Juno's goal to control all of the population and take away free will and Minerva and Tinias plan to stop her was where the Assassin VS. Templar war began? Seriously..... think about it.

An excellent rundown. First, I want to hear your opinions on all the questions you raised in part 3. Regarding you secondary view: it is mentioned throughout the series that even if one side or the other is completely wiped out, it is never gone entirely, because some day some one comes back around to revive the idea. Free will at all costs vs peace by any means seems to be two ideals ingrained in our very humanity, according to the fiction. Thus, it only makes sense to conclude that the war between the Assassins and the Templars has been going on ever since the first catastrophe 70,000 years ago. The names of the two sides undoubtedly changed every incarnation, but their goals would probably have been the same.That's why I suggested the biblical link between Adam/Abel/Seth and Eve/Cain could be the most recent incarnation's metaphor for the followers of Tinia/Minerva(Assassins) vs the followers of Juno(Templars). Or maybe not followers, but rather descendants of the interbreeding programs held by the 3 of them. The question I wonder about though is that if everything since, say, Moses, was a history of the most recent incarnation(meaning everything from Adam and the earliest bloodlines was a poorly retold metaphor for the fall of the first civilization)- and assuming the solar flare is a cyclical event every five or six thousand years- did Juno wait 70,000 years for Desmond, or did she try her little scheme with every incarnation?

That is a very good idea you have there, and you could be on to something. And I think she waited for Desmond, as that is what has been hinted at, but never confirmed. And about the questions you want me to answer, I shall answer, it will just take me awhile to type it so are you willing to wait a little bit? :P
#20 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -
[QUOTE="Kevlar101"][QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Part 3 - Final Ideas.............. Ok, so there are other things I concluded to, but I give you the option to choose which one you want to hear the answer to: What is the significance of the Amulet? Are the First Civilization entities such as Minerva, Juno, and Tinia alive or dead? How can Juno manifest herself outside of the Grand Temple? Why Does Juno choose to focus so intently on Desmond? Why does Desmond so readily accept Juno's offer, aren't Assassins supposed to preserve free will at all costs? How does Juno stop the catastrophe? Why does Juno need Desmonds DNA? Who is the man who talks about hacking after the final credits? What does Juno hope to achieve?Might the Templars and Assassins Unite to fight Juno? Is Desmond really dead?Who can we expect to stand out in a future installment? Are there other ways to interpret the storys conclusion? _________________________________ My secondary view: They say that the Assassin VS. Templar war has been going on for far longer than 2,000 years....... what if Juno's goal to control all of the population and take away free will and Minerva and Tinias plan to stop her was where the Assassin VS. Templar war began? Seriously..... think about it.

An excellent rundown. First, I want to hear your opinions on all the questions you raised in part 3. Regarding you secondary view: it is mentioned throughout the series that even if one side or the other is completely wiped out, it is never gone entirely, because some day some one comes back around to revive the idea. Free will at all costs vs peace by any means seems to be two ideals ingrained in our very humanity, according to the fiction. Thus, it only makes sense to conclude that the war between the Assassins and the Templars has been going on ever since the first catastrophe 70,000 years ago. The names of the two sides undoubtedly changed every incarnation, but their goals would probably have been the same.That's why I suggested the biblical link between Adam/Abel/Seth and Eve/Cain could be the most recent incarnation's metaphor for the followers of Tinia/Minerva(Assassins) vs the followers of Juno(Templars). Or maybe not followers, but rather descendants of the interbreeding programs held by the 3 of them. The question I wonder about though is that if everything since, say, Moses, was a history of the most recent incarnation(meaning everything from Adam and the earliest bloodlines was a poorly retold metaphor for the fall of the first civilization)- and assuming the solar flare is a cyclical event every five or six thousand years- did Juno wait 70,000 years for Desmond, or did she try her little scheme with every incarnation?

That is a very good idea you have there, and you could be on to something. And I think she waited for Desmond, as that is what has been hinted at, but never confirmed. And about the questions you want me to answer, I shall answer, it will just take me awhile to type it so are you willing to wait a little bit? :P

Well, hop to it! Assassin's Creed has been one of my favorite games to discuss ever since my first AC2 playthrough.
#21 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

Man I still cannot wrap my head around the series' ridiculous plot. Maybe it's just because I've never enjoyed Desmond's storyline at all... I really don't know.

Also, did anyone get the sense of the line between the Assassin's and Templars blurring a bit in this game? In past games, especially AC2, I was given the sense that the Templars were truly evil, and the Assassin's were on the side of good. In this game, though, I really didn't get that feeling as much. Haytham in particular, even though he was a Templar, seemed to be much more of a "gray" character than any of the previous games have had before.

Also... so is Desmond really dead?

#22 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -

Man I still cannot wrap my head around the series' ridiculous plot. Maybe it's just because I've never enjoyed Desmond's storyline at all... I really don't know.

Also, did anyone get the sense of the line between the Assassin's and Templars blurring a bit in this game? In past games, especially AC2, I was given the sense that the Templars were truly evil, and the Assassin's were on the side of good. In this game, though, I really didn't get that feeling as much. Haytham in particular, even though he was a Templar, seemed to be much more of a "gray" character than any of the previous games have had before.

Also... so is Desmond really dead?

Vari3ty
This is the first time the Grand Master of the Templar Order has been such a gray character. Throughout the series, there have been many Templars who were doing good in bad ways- the first time this came across(that I remembered) was when you were sent to kill the Templar hospitalier. The first time you met him, one of his patients had nearly escaped, but had his legs broken and was dragged back inside. But when you infiltrated the hospital and eavesdropped on him making his rounds, you found out that his cured patients(cured by either the Apple or drugs that mimicked it's effects) thanked him, almost worshipped him. But Robert de Sable, Al Mualim, Rodrigo and Cesare Borgia have all been undeniably evil. As far as the series's plot: the ancestor storylines are nothing more than a means to an end. Desmond's storyline is the only important storyline, so if you just rush through each game to get back into the action, you're breezing right past all of the most interesting aspects of the game- the Truth, checking emails, talking to your team, it all fills out the 2012 storyline.
#23 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6029 posts) -

Also... so is Desmond really dead?

Vari3ty
I don't see any way around it. Besides, Ubisoft said AC3 would put an end to Desmond's role in the series, so yeah, he's dead.
#24 Posted by Kevlar101 (6204 posts) -

Man I still cannot wrap my head around the series' ridiculous plot. Maybe it's just because I've never enjoyed Desmond's storyline at all... I really don't know.

Also, did anyone get the sense of the line between the Assassin's and Templars blurring a bit in this game? In past games, especially AC2, I was given the sense that the Templars were truly evil, and the Assassin's were on the side of good. In this game, though, I really didn't get that feeling as much. Haytham in particular, even though he was a Templar, seemed to be much more of a "gray" character than any of the previous games have had before.

Also... so is Desmond really dead?

Vari3ty
I agree. The amount of gray area was huge, in fact, there was no black or white at all in AC3. It was all grey. No good, and no evil. Also, I dont really consider Rodrigo to be evil. He was just another Templar doing bad so that good could come out of it. But I agree on the others, especially Cesare. He was the face of evil. Also, about your question about Desmond..... I can answer that along with many other questions.... but i'm too lazy to do it right now :P