The Number One Reason to Like Indie Games

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Edited 7 months, 16 days ago

Poll: The Number One Reason to Like Indie Games (17 votes)

They're are a bunch of free ones 6%
They give room for really weird games to be released 41%
Variety is the spice of life 53%

Yo!

I have been playing a lot of indie games lately. My only gaming platform since my Gamecube is my PC. Do console players even get the chance to play independently developed games?

Anyway I found a bunch of free indie games.. they're pretty much available all over the internet. I found www.thefreebundle.com which is especially cool. I downloaded literally every game they have available from all 9 bundles ^^

One of those games is CyberMedic: Futuristic Cyborg Ambulance Simulator (I made up the tag line), and I put together I video that I hope you'll like a lot http://youtu.be/N3JHpbQOkqk

Leave your opinion in the poll or in the comments.. peace out!

#1 Posted by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

Have you never heard of indie games on xbox live? its a section packed with thousands of indie games that would never even make the light of day on PC

#2 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70539 posts) -

THey are different and innovative

#3 Edited by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

There are awesome indie games out there that would have never been made under the publisher model. Creative freedom can lead to great thing.

I can't wait for wiouds' inevitable but oh-so-enlightening post ITT.

#4 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

Have you never heard of indie games on xbox live? its a section packed with thousands of indie games that would never even make the light of day on PC

And for a good reason: most XBLA indie games are ghastly.

#5 Edited by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

There are awesome indie games out there that would have never been made under the publisher model. Creative freedom can lead to great thing.

I can't wait for wiouds' inevitable but oh-so-enlightening post ITT.

they have not the good gameplay.

#6 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

Have you never heard of indie games on xbox live? its a section packed with thousands of indie games that would never even make the light of day on PC

And for a good reason: most XBLA indie games are ghastly.

Well most of them are again "independent" and are only made by a single person doing it as a hobby or something other than their career/school in their free time, and with an asking price of only $1-5, they really aren't bad at all. Infact To be quite honest I've played some excellent ones, such as "Breath Of Death VII" And whilst I love alot of PC indie titles, they usually aren't all that "independent" they have numerous people behind it and they are usually funded by kick-starter like websites, and they charge over $15 most of the time. See the difference?

#7 Edited by Minishdriveby (9734 posts) -

I like games. I don't like all Indie games. Some are complete shit; others are top 10 Games of the Generation quality. Some are creative and innovative and fresh; others are copy and paste crap. They're games. It's not a in-group thing. It's an individual basis sort of thing.

It sort of bugs me when people say the Indie scene is a place of innovation and freshness while seemingly saying AAA/Publisher backed games are stale cess-pits. Both have their fair share of freshness both have their fair share of boring run-of-the-mill-ness.

#8 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

And for a good reason: most XBLA indie games are ghastly.

Well most of them are again "independent" and are only made by a single person doing it as a hobby or something other than their career/school in their free time, and with an asking price of only $1-5, they really aren't bad at all. Infact To be quite honest I've played some excellent ones, such as "Breath Of Death VII" And whilst I love alot of PC indie titles, they usually aren't all that "independent" they have numerous people behind it and they are usually funded by kick-starter like websites, and they charge over $15 most of the time. See the difference?

I'm sorry, but I disagree with your definition of "independent": any game without the financial backing of a major publisher and, to a lesser extent, made by an essential development team is an "indie".

That said, XBLA indies are quality-wise what we used to call "freeware" some 10 years ago, which is precisely what you said: games made by one-man budding developers in their spare time and released for free (for $1 now) and the quality has remained pretty much the same, which is terrible nine times out of ten. I used to make games like those myself (way before Xbox Live, for the record) and I'm not even a coder.

Are there some good indies on XBLA? Sure. Are there a landslide of absolutely terrible ones? Undeniably.

#9 Posted by Jacanuk (4200 posts) -

number one reason to like games is because they are a ton of fun and i am a gamer so i like to play games and have fun ;)

#10 Edited by Mesomorphin (813 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

@mesomorphin said:

@Black_Knight_00 said:

And for a good reason: most XBLA indie games are ghastly.

Well most of them are again "independent" and are only made by a single person doing it as a hobby or something other than their career/school in their free time, and with an asking price of only $1-5, they really aren't bad at all. Infact To be quite honest I've played some excellent ones, such as "Breath Of Death VII" And whilst I love alot of PC indie titles, they usually aren't all that "independent" they have numerous people behind it and they are usually funded by kick-starter like websites, and they charge over $15 most of the time. See the difference?

I'm sorry, but I disagree with your definition of "independent": any game without the financial backing of a major publisher and, to a lesser extent, made by an essential development team is an "indie".

That said, XBLA indies are quality-wise what we used to call "freeware" some 10 years ago, which is precisely what you said: games made by one-man budding developers in their spare time and released for free (for $1 now) and the quality has remained pretty much the same, which is terrible nine times out of ten. I used to make games like those myself (way before Xbox Live, for the record) and I'm not even a coder.

Are there some good indies on XBLA? Sure. Are there a landslide of absolutely terrible ones? Undeniably.

Financial backing of a major publisher? Okay fair enough, but what about all the Financial backings from websites such as KickStarter? Sure it aint no publisher giving them money, but they're still receiving it none the less. Look at the "indie" game "Mighty No.9" that managed to raise nearly 4 million dollars! from kick-starter without no publisher, it was developed by a well experienced team, and yet in your eyes you would still classify that as indie? HA a game like that wont even cost them 1 million to make! and yet they've got no issues finically in terms of shipping off physical copies because its all digital! They've already made more money off that game, than most big time devs and publishers. Like the much anticipated infamous 2 which only sold 1.64 mil worldwide!

#11 Posted by wiouds (5060 posts) -

I do not find that they are any better that the bigger games. I find many of the big name games are innovative in ways that I like and not in the gimmicky way that many indie games are.

#12 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

Financial backing of a major publisher? Okay fair enough, but what about all the Financial backings from websites such as KickStarter? Sure it aint no publisher giving them money, but they're still receiving it none the less. Look at the "indie" game "Mighty No.9" that managed to raise nearly 4 million dollars! from kick-starter without no publisher, it was developed by a well experienced team, and yet in your eyes you would still classify that as indie? HA a game like that wont even cost them 1 million to make! and yet they've got no issues finically in terms of shipping off physical copies because its all digital! They've already made more money off that game, than most big time devs and publishers. Like the much anticipated infamous 2 which only sold 1.64 mil worldwide!

It's not a matter of money per se, you need to look at things in perspective: what condition does financial backing come with? Doing what the investor tells you unless you want the money pulled. This often translates into the original concept and idea of a game being interfered and tampered with by publishers based on asinine conclusions from their market research departments ("Change the cover art, put a man with a gun on it" or "Take this out of the game"), all with that "shut up and do it" attitude.

That's what indie developers are trying to circumvent and what tools like Kickstarter and Indiegogo are allowing: removing the middle man (the money-centric corporation whose interest in games is merely monetary) and substituting it with the public itself, creating a direct line between two parties that both see gaming as a passion and not just cold business.

Yes, some kickstarters are massively successful, what of it? The core idea of bypassing the control of the "suits upstairs" over the developer's creative vision is still intact. That's the core of "independent gaming"

#13 Posted by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

Financial backing of a major publisher? Okay fair enough, but what about all the Financial backings from websites such as KickStarter? Sure it aint no publisher giving them money, but they're still receiving it none the less. Look at the "indie" game "Mighty No.9" that managed to raise nearly 4 million dollars! from kick-starter without no publisher, it was developed by a well experienced team, and yet in your eyes you would still classify that as indie? HA a game like that wont even cost them 1 million to make! and yet they've got no issues finically in terms of shipping off physical copies because its all digital! They've already made more money off that game, than most big time devs and publishers. Like the much anticipated infamous 2 which only sold 1.64 mil worldwide!

It's not a matter of money per se, you need to look at things in perspective: what condition does financial backing come with? Doing what the investor tells you unless you want the money pulled. This often translates into the original concept and idea of a game being interfered and tampered with by publishers based on asinine conclusions from their market research departments ("Change the cover art, put a man with a gun on it" or "Take this out of the game"), all with that "shut up and do it" attitude.

That's what indie developers are trying to circumvent and what tools like Kickstarter and Indiegogo are allowing: removing the middle man (the money-centric corporation whose interest in games is merely monetary) and substituting it with the public itself, creating a direct line between two parties that both see gaming as a passion and not just cold business.

Yes, some kickstarters are massively successful, what of it? The core idea of bypassing the control of the "suits upstairs" over the developer's creative vision is still intact. That's the core of "independent gaming"

Being independent gaming does not mean that they are better. The problem I have is when many seem to give them a myth to why they are better than AAA games. "They are the one with the passion." You can not prove who does or does not have passion. "They are the where true innovation comes from. " What is innovation is not the same for people and I find that it is the tiny things that AAA does that are the most innovative,

Also you can work with the suit to not only maintain you creative vision but improve it. There is nothing wrong with having a person keeping an eye on the budget.

#14 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -
@wiouds said:

Being independent gaming does not mean that they are better. The problem I have is when many seem to give them a myth to why they are better than AAA games. "They are the one with the passion." You can not prove who does or does not have passion. "They are the where true innovation comes from. " What is innovation is not the same for people and I find that it is the tiny things that AAA does that are the most innovative,

Also you can work with the suit to not only maintain you creative vision but improve it. There is nothing wrong with having a person keeping an eye on the budget.

I'm not interested in what's better. Some games simply would not exist if it were up to the suits, that much is set in stone.

#15 Edited by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

@wiouds said:

I do not find that they are any better that the bigger games. I find many of the big name games are innovative in ways that I like and not in the gimmicky way that many indie games are.

Awesome post, so refreshing, I love reading it again and again in every thread with "indie" in the title. You should make that same post 4500 more times.

#16 Edited by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@wiouds said:

Being independent gaming does not mean that they are better. The problem I have is when many seem to give them a myth to why they are better than AAA games. "They are the one with the passion." You can not prove who does or does not have passion. "They are the where true innovation comes from. " What is innovation is not the same for people and I find that it is the tiny things that AAA does that are the most innovative,

Also you can work with the suit to not only maintain you creative vision but improve it. There is nothing wrong with having a person keeping an eye on the budget.

I'm not interested in what's better. Some games simply would not exist if it were up to the suits, that much is set in stone.

Then there may be a good reason why that creative vision can not be done.

#17 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -
@wiouds said:

Then there may be a good reason why that creative vision can not be done.

Yeah, I'm sur we're all much happier since the suits cancelled Shenmue 3 and chose not to include english subtitles in future Yakuza games. Good think the suits are there to protect us from those pesky developers.

#18 Posted by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@wiouds said:

Then there may be a good reason why that creative vision can not be done.

Yeah, I'm sur we're all much happier since the suits cancelled Shenmue 3 and chose not to include english subtitles in future Yakuza games. Good think the suits are there to protect us from those pesky developers.

Making games cost money and time. to get time they give money to workers. That said someone need to make sure the are using the money the best it can and if it can not then cut. I am sure there are "suits" in indie games.

#19 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -
@wiouds said:

Making games cost money and time. to get time they give money to workers. That said someone need to make sure the are using the money the best it can and if it can not then cut. I am sure there are "suits" in indie games.

Managing a studio's budget and deadlines does not require being a moneygrubbing suit. Your equation is sinking.

#20 Posted by Planeforger (15527 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:
@mesomorphin said:

Have you never heard of indie games on xbox live? its a section packed with thousands of indie games that would never even make the light of day on PC

And for a good reason: most XBLA indie games are ghastly.

Well most of them are again "independent" and are only made by a single person doing it as a hobby or something other than their career/school in their free time, and with an asking price of only $1-5, they really aren't bad at all. Infact To be quite honest I've played some excellent ones, such as "Breath Of Death VII" And whilst I love alot of PC indie titles, they usually aren't all that "independent" they have numerous people behind it and they are usually funded by kick-starter like websites, and they charge over $15 most of the time. See the difference?

May I just point out that Breath of Death VII is on the PC, and its sister game, Cthulhu Saves the World was vastly more successful on the PC than it ever was on XBLA?

I'd actually struggle to come up with a decent list of indie titles that are only available on XBLA. Most of them ended up on the PC, where they are typically cheaper and get wider coverage. So I'm really not sure what you're talking about there - the PC simply gets many more great indie games than the consoles.

As for Kickstarter titles...how can a develop get more indie than having financial independence from publishers?

#21 Posted by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@wiouds said:

Making games cost money and time. to get time they give money to workers. That said someone need to make sure the are using the money the best it can and if it can not then cut. I am sure there are "suits" in indie games.

Managing a studio's budget and deadlines does not require being a moneygrubbing suit. Your equation is sinking.

I am not that is throwing something as subjective as moneygrubbing and then use that to overgeneralize.

#22 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

@wiouds said:

I am not that is throwing something as subjective as moneygrubbing and then use that to overgeneralize.

That's absolutely correct: most if not all game company executives work in that field for their undying passion for videogames, not to make the most profit possible. That's why we're all playing Shenmue 3.

#23 Posted by 13wormwood13 (14 posts) -

I didn't know anything about that free bundle website. I'll have to check it out. I find that the more I get back into PC gaming (I didn't do much on PC after around 2003-2011, minus Age of Mythology and Star Wars: Empire at War and Galactic Battlegrounds), the more I really get into indie games. Given, some of them are horrible, but there's a lot out there that are addictive, challenging, and all around fun.

#24 Edited by Ish_basic (3998 posts) -

@13wormwood13 said:

I didn't know anything about that free bundle website. I'll have to check it out. I find that the more I get back into PC gaming (I didn't do much on PC after around 2003-2011, minus Age of Mythology and Star Wars: Empire at War and Galactic Battlegrounds), the more I really get into indie games. Given, some of them are horrible, but there's a lot out there that are addictive, challenging, and all around fun.

undoubtedly there's a better variety of indie titles on PC, which is probably because console publishing involves its own set of controls indie devs are looking to avoid. That did seem to be the message coming from Star Citizen's creator when he said: "IF the platform holders [Sony & Microsoft] allow us to update the code and data without restrictions and …IF they allow our community to openly interact with each other across platforms then I would CONSIDER supporting them.” I think (hope?) that Sony and MS are waking up to these sort of sentiments with their indie stance coming into this generation.

#25 Posted by halipokes (48 posts) -

They may have mistakes, I'll give you that. But as no publisher is pushing down on the devs when making indie games, they have the complete freedom to try new things and not create the same game once again. Indie games really give out stories, humor and gameplay I could not expect in a AAA game.

This, of course, is not talking of all indie games. Some of them are complete shit, to be frank. But then there's games like Brothers: a tale of two sons or Knock knock which really bring back the glory of indie games.

But, to be frank, I don't think indie itself should be a genre. It doesn't tell of the gameplay in anyway, and people use it in wrong means (For example they told Amnesia 2 was indie game after Frictional games made so much money out of Amnesia 1, and clearly weren't an indie company anymore)

#26 Posted by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@wiouds said:

I am not that is throwing something as subjective as moneygrubbing and then use that to overgeneralize.

That's absolutely correct: most if not all game company executives work in that field for their undying passion for videogames, not to make the most profit possible. That's why we're all playing Shenmue 3.

Why are you jumping to another extreme? Not being able to justify a game does not mean an executive does or does not have a passion for video games, They have a duty to make money.

#27 Posted by betamaxx83 (351 posts) -

I've come to appreciate indie games the past year and am extremely excited for the upcoming games. A lot of them are unique and offer a different experience than full budget titles.

#28 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

Indie games are GINORMOUSLY better than mainstreamers.

That is the only reason I play. choosing one game over another because of price is silly.

To be clear what is indie and what is not is hard line sometimes. Case in point I consider Eve Online to be indie although it could be argued otherwise

#29 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

@wiouds said:

Why are you jumping to another extreme? Not being able to justify a game does not mean an executive does or does not have a passion for video games, They have a duty to make money.

Which is the main difference between indie and corporate gaming: corporate's first and foremost goal is to maximise profit making a good game in the process, indie's is to make a good game hoping to turn a profit.

#30 Edited by wiouds (5060 posts) -

@wiouds said:

Why are you jumping to another extreme? Not being able to justify a game does not mean an executive does or does not have a passion for video games, They have a duty to make money.

Which is the main difference between indie and corporate gaming: corporate's first and foremost goal is to maximise profit making a good game in the process, indie's is to make a good game hoping to turn a profit.

So, both is about making a game that sell to make a profit. For the corporation it is making a game up to the stander of the moneygrubbing gamers. For the indie game how to make what little they did for the game to sound better than it is.

#31 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18262 posts) -

@wiouds said:

So, both is about making a game that sell to make a profit. For the corporation it is making a game up to the stander of the moneygrubbing gamers. For the indie game how to make what little they did for the game to sound better than it is.

What does that even mean?

#32 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -
@wiouds said:

So, both is about making a game that sell to make a profit. For the corporation it is making a game up to the stander of the moneygrubbing gamers. For the indie game how to make what little they did for the game to sound better than it is.

Indie games are not always about making profits. A lot of mods are made as a hobby, for example. Kickstarted games don't have profit as their criteria of success.