The most badass deity in The Elder Scrolls

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by ACP_45 (428 posts) -

Mine would be......

Jygylagg The Daedric Prince of Order.

And judging from the TESO Cinematic Trailers Molag Bal The Daedric Prince of Schemes and Deceit is a friggin’ badass too.

Alduin is supposed to be immensely powerful since he is the first aspect of Akatosh.

Akatosh is probably the most powerful deity. Judging from the Lore

#2 Posted by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Akatosh is the most powerful based on the lore, but who knows how true that is until put to the test. ES7 should have the gods duking it out while leading armies.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

#3 Posted by ACP_45 (428 posts) -

@Boddicker: I was actually sitting and thinking for a while what to say....... didn’t come up with a better word.

What would you have said ?

Convoluted Lore ?

From all LoreMasters in gaming they have said that TES Lore is probably one of the deepest and richest Lore there is to find in gaming. I would believe that since it came from different Lore Masters from a lot of games.

#4 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

hmm.. i was gonna say Hermaeus Mora but technically he's a daedric lord, far as deities go i'd say Lady Mara.

#5 Posted by stizzal13 (539 posts) -

I am going with Dibella, the goddess of beauty, mainly because of the painting quest in Oblivion.

#6 Posted by Kevlar101 (5962 posts) -

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

#7 Posted by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

#8 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

@Boddicker: Morrowind had a little bit of racism going on. It was insignificant, but various NPCs would treat you differently based on your race. It didn't hit Vampire: The Masquerade levels of awesomeness with character variety, but at least there was a minor effort.

#9 Posted by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

@Boddicker: Morrowind had a little bit of racism going on. It was insignificant, but various NPCs would treat you differently based on your race. It didn't hit Vampire: The Masquerade levels of awesomeness with character variety, but at least there was a minor effort.

That's exactly my point. A "little bit" of racism.

With as many races as the Elder Scrolls world has realistically there would be mass genocides and race wars. Hell, the Dragon Age universe has 4 races and they can barely look at each other without a fight breaking out.

#10 Posted by Kevlar101 (5962 posts) -

@Boddicker: Are you KIDDING? There is a ton of racism! Do you even pay attention to these games??? Have you even played one?

The Dark Elves are constantly being made targets for racism. And in turn, in the lore, the Dark Elves (ironically), used the Argonians and some Khajiit as slaves, who eventually rebelled.

And in general, there is quite a bit of racism between the Human races and the Elven races.

#11 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

@Boddicker: Are you KIDDING? There is a ton of racism! Do you even pay attention to these games??? Have you even played one?

The Dark Elves are constantly being made targets for racism. And in turn, in the lore, the Dark Elves (ironically), used the Argonians and some Khajiit as slaves, who eventually rebelled.

And in general, there is quite a bit of racism between the Human races and the Elven races.

In the lore, yeah. In the actual games? Nope.

The game changes 0% depending on what you decide to play as. Characters aren't going to treat you any differently, nothing is going to be tougher/easier, and the world won't react to your choices.

You can read about how the Dark Elves are mistreated in Skyrim and you can hear about it, but you won't actually see it. If you play as a Dark Elf and wander around Skyrim, no one is going to give a shit.

#12 Posted by Ish_basic (3860 posts) -

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker: Are you KIDDING? There is a ton of racism! Do you even pay attention to these games??? Have you even played one?

The Dark Elves are constantly being made targets for racism. And in turn, in the lore, the Dark Elves (ironically), used the Argonians and some Khajiit as slaves, who eventually rebelled.

And in general, there is quite a bit of racism between the Human races and the Elven races.

In the lore, yeah. In the actual games? Nope.

The game changes 0% depending on what you decide to play as. Characters aren't going to treat you any differently, nothing is going to be tougher/easier, and the world won't react to your choices.

You can read about how the Dark Elves are mistreated in Skyrim and you can hear about it, but you won't actually see it. If you play as a Dark Elf and wander around Skyrim, no one is going to give a shit.

It comes down to Bethesda being so afraid of creating an uneven experience for its players. You can see it in so many of their decisions from the completely open skill system that won't even do common sense things like punishing the use of heavy armor in stealth to the completely useless racial bonuses to guild quests that don't even require you to be proficient in the guild's area of expertise. They never stop to think that uneven can be fun...just ask Nosferatu and Malkavian players in Bloodlines. It's a missed opportunity on Bethesda's part to not make racial choices more than cosmetic, but if falls in line with the rest of their game design.

Interestingly enough, you do get to experience some of this in ESO, where the alliances aren't so strong as they might seem. The Bretons and the Orcs have a past and there is this moment where this Orc that's been fighting with me, a Breton, from the beginning tells me straight out, "if you do this, you're my enemy." It had to do with not letting old sins die, basically. Well, I did it, and she took the Breton thief and Altmer sorcerer with her. Now my band is down to a handful of Redguard privateers. I don't know how far the game is going to take this decision, but I never had to make a call like that in a TES game before and I thought it was kinda cool.

#13 Edited by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

@IndianaPwns39 said:

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker: Are you KIDDING? There is a ton of racism! Do you even pay attention to these games??? Have you even played one?

The Dark Elves are constantly being made targets for racism. And in turn, in the lore, the Dark Elves (ironically), used the Argonians and some Khajiit as slaves, who eventually rebelled.

And in general, there is quite a bit of racism between the Human races and the Elven races.

In the lore, yeah. In the actual games? Nope.

The game changes 0% depending on what you decide to play as. Characters aren't going to treat you any differently, nothing is going to be tougher/easier, and the world won't react to your choices.

You can read about how the Dark Elves are mistreated in Skyrim and you can hear about it, but you won't actually see it. If you play as a Dark Elf and wander around Skyrim, no one is going to give a shit.

It comes down to Bethesda being so afraid of creating an uneven experience for its players. You can see it in so many of their decisions from the completely open skill system that won't even do common sense things like punishing the use of heavy armor in stealth to the completely useless racial bonuses to guild quests that don't even require you to be proficient in the guild's area of expertise. They never stop to think that uneven can be fun...just ask Nosferatu and Malkavian players in Bloodlines. It's a missed opportunity on Bethesda's part to not make racial choices more than cosmetic, but if falls in line with the rest of their game design.

Interestingly enough, you do get to experience some of this in ESO, where the alliances aren't so strong as they might seem. The Bretons and the Orcs have a past and there is this moment where this Orc that's been fighting with me, a Breton, from the beginning tells me straight out, "if you do this, you're my enemy." It had to do with not letting old sins die, basically. Well, I did it, and she took the Breton thief and Altmer sorcerer with her. Now my band is down to a handful of Redguard privateers. I don't know how far the game is going to take this decision, but I never had to make a call like that in a TES game before and I thought it was kinda cool.

Yeah, it might seem like an odd complaint but I always hated how my character in Skyrim had no weaknesses. I'm sure a lot of people like that, so that they don't have to create a new character to experience all the aspects of the game, but to me it makes me feel so removed from the world. Creating a character with some weaknesses and histories in which NPCs will treat you differently is a great way of making the world come to life.

I give props to Morrowind because it was there at least a little bit, but Oblivion and Skyrim completely took that away and I found it hard to get invested because I was such a blank, uninteresting slate surrounded by blank, uninteresting slates.

That's good news about ESO. Definitely something to keep an eye on, thanks.

#14 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

#15 Posted by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

@Boddicker said:

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

Idiot.

1) I'm white.

2) I'm very angry about the huge double standards regarding race in America.

@IndianaPwns39 I couldn't have said it better myself. There's a crap ton in the lore but it's nonexistentent in the game.

#16 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

I'm not sure if this is a serious post but...

Not real racism, in game racism. It isn't about the appearance of the characters (IE not all Nords are blonde hair blue eyed) but rather the history between each race. You can find several books and hear several stories about how much race A hates race B but it isn't incorporated into the game in any way.

Virtually every fantasy franchise has it, in varying capacities. Even in Lord of the Rings, though not nearly in the vein of some other darker franchises that came after that one. The reason it's an issue in The Elder Scrolls is because the lore makes it a point to say that it exists, but you wouldn't know it when gallivanting around the lands.

For example, you frequently read and discover that the Argonians are enslaved and mistreated throughout most of Tamriel but if you play as one no one treats you any differently.

#17 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7 said:

@Boddicker said:

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

Idiot.

1) I'm white.

2) I'm very angry about the huge double standards regarding race in America.

@IndianaPwns39 I couldn't have said it better myself. There's a crap ton in the lore but it's nonexistentent in the game.

sorry m8, i shouldn't have jumped to conclusions, its just usually when i hear anything regarding racism nowadays its ALWAYS some black dude or chick who's a racist hypocrite trying to stir up racial controversy when in reality THEY are the only racist, glad to see you got your head on strait. i apologize.

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

#18 Edited by Ish_basic (3860 posts) -

@shangtsung7: oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

That's Vladimir Kulich, and this is a picture of him in real life (well, on a movie set). The man was born to play a Viking. I mean look at him. He's fucking Thor.

I know he played the Beowulf role in the 13th Warrior movie and also had a part on History Channel's Viking. He also played a mercenary leader in Ironclad, and wasn't technically a Viking inspired character there, but they still made him look like something out of Conan in that movie.

#19 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7: oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

That's Vladimir Kulich, and this is a picture of him in real life (well, on a movie set). The man was born to play a Viking. I mean look at him. He's fucking Thor.

I know he played the Beowulf role in the 13th Warrior movie and also had a part on History Channel's Viking. He also played a mercenary leader in Ironclad, and wasn't technically a Viking inspired character there, but they still made him look like something out of Conan in that movie.

thats awesome info m8! The 13th Warrior happens to be one of my favorite movies, can't believe i never figured out my favorite character from one of my favorite movies was also the voice for my favorite video game character! that is some ironic stuff right there.

#20 Posted by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

@Boddicker said:

@shangtsung7 said:

@Boddicker said:

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

Idiot.

1) I'm white.

2) I'm very angry about the huge double standards regarding race in America.

@IndianaPwns39 I couldn't have said it better myself. There's a crap ton in the lore but it's nonexistentent in the game.

sorry m8, i shouldn't have jumped to conclusions, its just usually when i hear anything regarding racism nowadays its ALWAYS some black dude or chick who's a racist hypocrite trying to stir up racial controversy when in reality THEY are the only racist, glad to see you got your head on strait. i apologize.

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

It's not a big deal, and you're right. It is usually black people or the lone ignorant white guy with "a lot of black friends" stirring the shitpot of racial tensions.

I'm just tired of the bullshit that always paint whites as "evil" infecting even my videogames now.

#21 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7 said:

@Boddicker said:

@shangtsung7 said:

@Boddicker said:

@Kevlar101 said:

@Boddicker said:

Daedric princes are not deities.

Alduin is neither a daedric prince or deity.

Good Lord, the Elder Scrolls franchise has some pretty convoluted lore. I'd actually be cool with rebooting it.

Yes, the Daedric princes ARE deities. See, when the mortal realm of Mundus was created, the Daedra were the deities that were NOT in favor of it's creation, while the Aedra were the ones who WERE in favor of it's creation. The Aedra, with the help of Lorkhan, created Mundus. The Daedra continued to exist in the immortal plane of Oblivion. Both the Daedra and the Aedra are deities, both sides are worshiped by mortals. Although, the Aedra are not immortal btw. The Deadra are immortal.

Secondly, Alduin is a god. He is part-god, rather. He is immortal in spirit and can never truly be destroyed forever.

Lastly.....that pisses me off. It's not convoluted. It's fantasy. It has a very deep lore, the likes of which that some have memorized perfectly, because it's not convoluted. TES needs no damn reboot.

LOL. Simmah down now.

I won't bother arguing the first two points because I really don't give a shit.

What bothers me most about the ES lore is its blatantly-hit-you-in-the-face allegory on racism. With that many species (or is it races since they can all interbreed freely) there's is no way wouldn't be more racism. Look at Dragon Age and The Witcher; tons of racism. Look at Elder scrolls; 10 races (playable) but very little racism? Well, except for the blonde haired, blue eyed nazi Nords. *facepalm*

Bullshit. A million times bullshit.

Ooooh, I can't wait for the ES apologists to jump in here.

the only "racist" i see here is YOU. all nords on this game are NOT blond hair and blue eyed, shows how much you know about the "lore" you're so quick to judge, and based on your obsession with "racism" you are obviously a black person.. may i then explain to you how not everything which has to do with "races" is negative, or would that blunt your wrath too much? *sigh* i swear people like you give me such a headache..

Idiot.

1) I'm white.

2) I'm very angry about the huge double standards regarding race in America.

@IndianaPwns39 I couldn't have said it better myself. There's a crap ton in the lore but it's nonexistentent in the game.

sorry m8, i shouldn't have jumped to conclusions, its just usually when i hear anything regarding racism nowadays its ALWAYS some black dude or chick who's a racist hypocrite trying to stir up racial controversy when in reality THEY are the only racist, glad to see you got your head on strait. i apologize.

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

It's not a big deal, and you're right. It is usually black people or the lone ignorant white guy with "a lot of black friends" stirring the shitpot of racial tensions.

I'm just tired of the bullshit that always paint whites as "evil" infecting even my videogames now.

yea, i know the ignorant white guys you're talking about, "brainwashed cowards" as i refer to them and its really sad when you see those blind individuals cause they have no idea they're slitting the throats of their own future children.

and yea, this hypocrisy is even starting to creep its way into the gaming industry which is truly depressing to witness, Bioshock: Infinite for example, the race bating story pissed me off so much i had to cut the game off to cool down before resuming, and sadly its only going to get worse cause nobody is brave enough to tell them that sh!t is wrong.

#22 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

Again though, that's just the lore/back drop of the story. If you play as a High Elf, Stormcloak won't treat you any differently than if you were a Nord. The world itself doesn't change at all if you side with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. The only thing that's any different is that the battles take place in different locations, but the people of Skyrim apparently don't give a shit to what's happening depending on your actions.

That's my issue with the game.

Also, I sided with the Imperial Legion because Stormcloak was totally willing to ignore the world devouring dragon in favor of civil war. Priorities man, he needed them. :P

#23 Edited by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7 said:

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

Again though, that's just the lore/back drop of the story. If you play as a High Elf, Stormcloak won't treat you any differently than if you were a Nord. The world itself doesn't change at all if you side with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. The only thing that's any different is that the battles take place in different locations, but the people of Skyrim apparently don't give a shit to what's happening depending on your actions.

That's my issue with the game.

Also, I sided with the Imperial Legion because Stormcloak was totally willing to ignore the world devouring dragon in favor of civil war. Priorities man, he needed them. :P

i don't think its that they ignore the fact of your race, its just that the stormcloaks don't care what race you are so long as you consider Skyrim your home and are willing to fight for it, you have to understand that Skyrim is home to more than just nords, it makes that clear in the dialog, Ulfrick and Galmor both are well aware of this, after all the war isn't about nords vs the Legion and Thalmor, its about the sons and daughters of Skyrim vs the Legion and Thalmor, and that comes in many shapes and colors. ;)

but yea, it is a little strange how they ignore the apocalyptic dragons and every other world destroying evil in favor of the war, Thalmor included. lol

#24 Posted by Tqricardinho (340 posts) -

Dragons

#25 Edited by Kevlar101 (5962 posts) -

Dragons

Alduin is the only dragon that is a God.

#26 Edited by ACP_45 (428 posts) -

@Boddicker: lol so you just don’t like the fantasy world of TES. It’s a taste thing I guess.

Just because you don’t like it.

It’s a series with lore that came over a course of 10 years

But that does NOT mean it’s convoluted.

#27 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

@IndianaPwns39 said:

@shangtsung7 said:

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

Again though, that's just the lore/back drop of the story. If you play as a High Elf, Stormcloak won't treat you any differently than if you were a Nord. The world itself doesn't change at all if you side with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. The only thing that's any different is that the battles take place in different locations, but the people of Skyrim apparently don't give a shit to what's happening depending on your actions.

That's my issue with the game.

Also, I sided with the Imperial Legion because Stormcloak was totally willing to ignore the world devouring dragon in favor of civil war. Priorities man, he needed them. :P

i don't think its that they ignore the fact of your race, its just that the stormcloaks don't care what race you are so long as you consider Skyrim your home and are willing to fight for it, you have to understand that Skyrim is home to more than just nords, it makes that clear in the dialog, Ulfrick and Galmor both are well aware of this, after all the war isn't about nords vs the Legion and Thalmor, its about the sons and daughters of Skyrim vs the Legion and Thalmor, and that comes in many shapes and colors. ;)

but yea, it is a little strange how they ignore the apocalyptic dragons and every other world destroying evil in favor of the war, Thalmor included. lol

See, that's all well and good but the game doesn't accurately represent that in any way. Dialog won't change based on your race and it makes your character's existence feel that less involved in the over arching world.

Sure, we can say that the Stormcloaks are excepting to all "sons and daughters" of Skyrim but that mostly means "Nords". Especially when you frequently have Stormcloaks shouting in battle "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" and the whole purpose of the civil war is that the Nords' way of life is threatened. This is partially due to the Thalmor so actively trying to remove the worship of Talos.

This also undermines the entire bit of the Dark Elves struggling to live among the Nords in Windhelm.

I don't think what you can/cannot do in the game should be dictated by your race, but I think that challenges should arise depending on your choice. If I'm playing as a High Elf wizard, I really should have to do a lot more/have more unique dialog when convincing the Stormcloaks I'm an ally. (I also wouldn't have minded the idea of actually fighting for the Thalmor)

#28 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7 said:

@IndianaPwns39 said:

@shangtsung7 said:

as for Skyrim, there in fact is a ton of racism lore throughout the game, the civil war quests for example are based on the Thalmor invading the land, attempting to wipe out all nords and enslave everyone else, this is why Ulfrick Stormcloak formed the rebellion known as the Stormcloaks and why they're at war with the Emperial Legion "who are allied to the Thalmor". this is also the reason why Ulfrick Stormcloak is one of my most favorite game characters of all time, if only we had men willing to make that type of stand against evil in the real world.. oh and he's also got the coolest voice in video game history. :D

Again though, that's just the lore/back drop of the story. If you play as a High Elf, Stormcloak won't treat you any differently than if you were a Nord. The world itself doesn't change at all if you side with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. The only thing that's any different is that the battles take place in different locations, but the people of Skyrim apparently don't give a shit to what's happening depending on your actions.

That's my issue with the game.

Also, I sided with the Imperial Legion because Stormcloak was totally willing to ignore the world devouring dragon in favor of civil war. Priorities man, he needed them. :P

i don't think its that they ignore the fact of your race, its just that the stormcloaks don't care what race you are so long as you consider Skyrim your home and are willing to fight for it, you have to understand that Skyrim is home to more than just nords, it makes that clear in the dialog, Ulfrick and Galmor both are well aware of this, after all the war isn't about nords vs the Legion and Thalmor, its about the sons and daughters of Skyrim vs the Legion and Thalmor, and that comes in many shapes and colors. ;)

but yea, it is a little strange how they ignore the apocalyptic dragons and every other world destroying evil in favor of the war, Thalmor included. lol

See, that's all well and good but the game doesn't accurately represent that in any way. Dialog won't change based on your race and it makes your character's existence feel that less involved in the over arching world.

Sure, we can say that the Stormcloaks are excepting to all "sons and daughters" of Skyrim but that mostly means "Nords". Especially when you frequently have Stormcloaks shouting in battle "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" and the whole purpose of the civil war is that the Nords' way of life is threatened. This is partially due to the Thalmor so actively trying to remove the worship of Talos.

This also undermines the entire bit of the Dark Elves struggling to live among the Nords in Windhelm.

I don't think what you can/cannot do in the game should be dictated by your race, but I think that challenges should arise depending on your choice. If I'm playing as a High Elf wizard, I really should have to do a lot more/have more unique dialog when convincing the Stormcloaks I'm an ally. (I also wouldn't have minded the idea of actually fighting for the Thalmor)

actually in that particular dialog the conversation does slightly change if you're not playing a nord, "emphasis on slightly" you have the option of responding "so you only take nords?" and if you select it Galmor explains that they accept anybody willing to fight the empire. PROOF that it is NOT all about nords. and of course they're pissed about the talos bann, thats basically taking away freedom of religion from them. and you can't base an entire concept of characters on one random dialog in battle, which btw is default for tons of enemies NOT just nords, i've had imperial and breten races scream "Skyrim belongs to the nords!!" as well during battles. its all random.

as for your dark elf thing, the reason they're resented in windhelm is because they won't help the stormcloaks, even tho they live there! yea.. pretty selfish if you ask me, again the nords have a right to be pissed.

my one major complaint when it comes to the lore of this game is that it constantly contradicts itself, but so long as the gameplay is good "and its top notch!" i couldn't care less about the story tbh.

#29 Posted by Korvus (2211 posts) -

I know Skyrim doesn't show as much racism as the lore would imply but even though it doesn't affect your gameplay much, characters DO treat you differently based on your race. As a Khajiit, I can't go anywhere where I'm not referred to as cat, thief, lowlife, etc. Mostly every time I enter an inn in a town I'm not well known yet the bartender always tells me to "Keep my hands where they can see them". If I crouch anywhere or approach a locked door in front of a guard, he takes his sword out and tells me to step away from the door. Make a Nord and you can even piss in their face and you're everyone's "brother".

Like I said, it doesn't prevent you from doing quests (although as a khajiit half the people seem reluctant in giving me the quest, while on my Nord they act like Superman has just arrived) you do feel unwanted...I mean hell, I can save someone's daughter and they reply with "Thanks, now get out of my lands, thief" and I hadn't even stolen anything anywhere in the game...of course now I do...might as well get the money if I already have the fame =P

#30 Edited by Boddicker (2247 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@Boddicker: lol so you just don’t like the fantasy world of TES. It’s a taste thing I guess.

Just because you don’t like it.

It’s a series with lore that came over a course of 10 years

But that does NOT mean it’s convoluted.

I want to like it, and perhaps I was a little premature in calling it convoluted.

What bothers me most is the world of Tamriel and all 15+ races (counting Akavir/Beast) are united (well, mostly united) under the dragonborn emperors of Cyrodil against another Oblivion Crisis. Martin Septim sacrificed himself at the end of ES4 so another Oblivion Crisis is technically impossible and the Mede dynasty of emperors take over with not a drop of dragonborn blood in them.

My point is without a unifying, global threat the races would rip themselves apart. It's true this is started in the Aldmeri Dominion wars but I would like to see it continued. Picture this: Humans and Neandertals coexisted on our planet for thousands of years. Where are the Neandertals? WE KILLED THEM!!!!!!! It would maybe take thousands of years, but sooner or later either man or mer would be extinct.

@shangtsung7 I'm sorry brother, but the native battlecry of "Skyrim for the Nords" would seem contradict your argument. I actually feel you have to play as a Nord to get the full Skyrim experience. I played a Dunmer mage hoping that when I traveled to Solstheim the dialogue would be different. It. Was. Not.

I could understand the odd Orc, Imperial, or Redguard joining the Stormcloaks, but they would have to distinguish themselves to be accepted.

@Korvus85 I've got news for you bro, you steal ONE/UNO/EIN thing even accidently somehow the guards will magically know and all of them will refer to as a "sneak thief." You can try putting it back exactly where you found it but it won't matter.

I can't experiment to try whether you're a Khajit or Nord because I don't have Skyrim anymore, but I really doubt it goes beyond racial slurs and it's all in your mind.

#31 Posted by Korvus (2211 posts) -

@Boddicker: My Nord stole plenty so that's not the issue =) And like I said, it doesn't change the gameplay, but it does change the dialogue.

#32 Edited by ACP_45 (428 posts) -

@Boddicker: I get what you are getting at.

I actually sort of think the fact that the imperials (normal humans) are weaker then your mer, orcs etc. Since imperials don’t really deal with Daedric Princes and worship them.

It sort of makes it interesting to see that the imperials are in cyrodiil which is the main capital sort of area in Tamriel.

But it’s probably because imperials might be more numerous.

And also having Daedra entering Nirn but also knowing that Daedra can’t be killed instead they only get sent back to the planes of oblivion to reanimate.

It just fricken twists everything.

From your average humans to your nord is a huge leap.

Nords aren’t really human because they are like Twice the size of a normal imperial also note that they came from the continent of Atmora so there are tons of mysteries there.

Redguards are possibly humans as well.

not sure.

But I think that there is a lot of disparity between races.

Khajiit hates Argonians.

High Elves vs Imperials and Nords

Etc.

Orcs are just hated all around.

I find the world of TES highly interesting.

#33 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

actually in that particular dialog the conversation does slightly change if you're not playing a nord, "emphasis on slightly" you have the option of responding "so you only take nords?" and if you select it Galmor explains that they accept anybody willing to fight the empire. PROOF that it is NOT all about nords. and of course they're pissed about the talos bann, thats basically taking away freedom of religion from them. and you can't base an entire concept of characters on one random dialog in battle, which btw is default for tons of enemies NOT just nords, i've had imperial and breten races scream "Skyrim belongs to the nords!!" as well during battles. its all random.

as for your dark elf thing, the reason they're resented in windhelm is because they won't help the stormcloaks, even tho they live there! yea.. pretty selfish if you ask me, again the nords have a right to be pissed.

my one major complaint when it comes to the lore of this game is that it constantly contradicts itself, but so long as the gameplay is good "and its top notch!" i couldn't care less about the story tbh.

If you play as a Nord you still have that option to ask "So you only take Nords" and Stormcloak gives the same answer. And the defense that it's all random and other races yell that same line just empowers my argument of dialog being pure shit in this game :P

As for the Dark Elf thing, again, it's all in the lore. What the Dark Elves say and what the story says is completely contradictory to how they act/treat you in the world. I did love having a Dark Elf basically cry to me about how miserable her life was and then turn around to have a ridiculously friendly conversation with a guard discussing all manner of rumors.

I think the reason I'm so harsh on TES in this particular instance is because it removes me from the world. I like getting lost but I get taken out when there are so many contradictory elements like that. It's just personal though, if it doesn't effect your enjoyment what does it matter?

@Korvus85: Yeah, I played a Khajit that never stole anything and was never called out for being a thief. The other Khajit created me differently but the rest of the world couldn't care less about my existence.

#34 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@shangtsung7 said:

actually in that particular dialog the conversation does slightly change if you're not playing a nord, "emphasis on slightly" you have the option of responding "so you only take nords?" and if you select it Galmor explains that they accept anybody willing to fight the empire. PROOF that it is NOT all about nords. and of course they're pissed about the talos bann, thats basically taking away freedom of religion from them. and you can't base an entire concept of characters on one random dialog in battle, which btw is default for tons of enemies NOT just nords, i've had imperial and breten races scream "Skyrim belongs to the nords!!" as well during battles. its all random.

as for your dark elf thing, the reason they're resented in windhelm is because they won't help the stormcloaks, even tho they live there! yea.. pretty selfish if you ask me, again the nords have a right to be pissed.

my one major complaint when it comes to the lore of this game is that it constantly contradicts itself, but so long as the gameplay is good "and its top notch!" i couldn't care less about the story tbh.

If you play as a Nord you still have that option to ask "So you only take Nords" and Stormcloak gives the same answer. And the defense that it's all random and other races yell that same line just empowers my argument of dialog being pure shit in this game :P

As for the Dark Elf thing, again, it's all in the lore. What the Dark Elves say and what the story says is completely contradictory to how they act/treat you in the world. I did love having a Dark Elf basically cry to me about how miserable her life was and then turn around to have a ridiculously friendly conversation with a guard discussing all manner of rumors.

I think the reason I'm so harsh on TES in this particular instance is because it removes me from the world. I like getting lost but I get taken out when there are so many contradictory elements like that. It's just personal though, if it doesn't effect your enjoyment what does it matter?

@Korvus85: Yeah, I played a Khajit that never stole anything and was never called out for being a thief. The other Khajit created me differently but the rest of the world couldn't care less about my existence.

well.. like i said the story does indeed contradict itself, A LOT. and thats my only real gripe with this game, but once you get over the out of place story and just focus on the gameplay its one of the best rpg's ever made imo. the only rpg i have ever played with which i have had close to this much fun with is Crono Trigger for the snes and that was over 10 years ago!

also like Korvus85 said, they DO treat you somewhat different based on race, tho not overly noticeable unless you're really paying attention but its there, if you play a Khajit you're pretty much treated like sh!t no matter which hold you're in, "even tho by story they shouldn't let you in anyway, story again contradicts itself" if you play an Imperial you're treated like a thief in every hold, i'm sure Orcs and Argonians are resented as well but i've never played those races, i always go with a nord or one of the elves. also i tend to roleplay my own story when i play so again, i don't pay much attention to the actual story.

#35 Edited by Ish_basic (3860 posts) -

@Boddicker: My point is without a unifying, global threat the races would rip themselves apart. It's true this is started in the Aldmeri Dominion wars but I would like to see it continued. Picture this: Humans and Neandertals coexisted on our planet for thousands of years. Where are the Neandertals? WE KILLED THEM!!!!!!! It would maybe take thousands of years, but sooner or later either man or mer would be extinct.

It wasn't just Neanderthals. There was a third group, and I'd have to look up the name to get the spelling right, but to the point, we did likely kill off both competing species. This is my problem with most fantasy, actually, that our own world teaches us that two species competing for the same resources would typically lead to one species annihilating the other. It's why I love the original Guild Wars where you just played as humans. It works in sci-fi, because the two races don't usually meet until they've reached a certain sophistication...but just look at how we are now and imagine us trying to cope in medieval times with an entirely different species. Doesn't seem possible. But it's fantasy, so we make allowances.

I would love if TES started imposing racial differences, but the community won't let it happen. ESO was originally supposed to lock players by race to particular factions, and now they've lifted that because the community complained that any kind of restriction was fundamentally against the principles of the franchise. So it looks like if you want to get your RPG on, you'll never be able to do it in Tamriel. Sad. I enjoy the TES games, but the lack of consequences of any kind really holds the franchise back.

#36 Posted by ShangTsung7 (247 posts) -

@Boddicker i'm not denying the contradiction m8, the entire story contradicts itself constantly. what i was saying is that i have seen with my own eyes and heard other races aside from nords scream "Skyrim belongs to the nords!" when attacking, yet another major contradiction, bandits are notorious for this, one time i believe i even spotted a wood elf saying it. lol

#37 Posted by Tqricardinho (340 posts) -