Stories in video games are like stories in porn.....

....you don't need them.

This is an epic quote from John Carmack. I believe that there is some truth to it, I mean look at Doom, arguably the best game of all time, and it hardly had a story.

^ You are completely right. Games without storylines don't cut it anymore. Theres no excuses for not making a game with a great story, especially since there are hundreds of great books that would translate perfectly into a game.

Not sure how anyone could think Doom is the greatest game of all time.

As for porn, there should never be any storylines in it, because its porn.

John Carmack is a very skillful programmer (or rather, used to be), but just because id never even attempted to implement a storyline of any kind into their games doesn't mean he's right. Also, in what alternate universe is Doom arguably the best...well, anything? It's not, and id's refusal of evolving in any way has relegated Doom 3 to antiquity and irrelevance.

Obviously, a storyline is not needed in a lot of games, but to say that it doesn't have a rightful place in gaming is ridiculous and flat-out false. A lot of games which I truly consider the best of the best have very strong storylines.

its semi true, alot of storeis dont requir a story, i mean i love the Mortal Kombat games, i never read into its story nor ever called to, never stopped me from enjoyin the games

now with a game like god of war its about 50/50 the game is extremely fun but if it had no story/poor story it would lose a good chunk of appeal

i really cant think of a game where the lack of story would make it completely unplayable but yea see the above line, most games fit in that 50/50 spot

and alot of times stories are alot alike from one game to the next usually with only name changes and time changes

True.

Game has bad story but good gameplay *House of the Dead, Resident Evil 4* Great Game

Games has good story but bad gameplay it's a Bad Game.

....you don't need them.

This is an epic quote from John Carmack. I believe that there is some truth to it, I mean look at Doom, arguably the best game of all time, and it hardly had a story.

Dopemonk736

And that's why John Carmack games hasn't been big thing since 90s

These days, they only care about his engines, not the game itself.

True.

Game has bad story but good gameplay *House of the Dead, Resident Evil 4* Great Game

Games has good story but bad gameplay it's a Bad Game.

Dencore

I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.

[QUOTE="Dencore"]

True.

Game has bad story but good gameplay *House of the Dead, Resident Evil 4* Great Game

Games has good story but bad gameplay it's a Bad Game.

TriangleHard

I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.

I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.

TriangleHard

Longest Journey had good gameplay *aka Level Design *avatar and event placement* Pacing *when certain things happned and where you go*

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.

Dencore

Longest Journey had good gameplay *aka Level Design *avatar and event placement* Pacing *when certain things happned and where you go*

Not really.

The puzzle kept the game out of the realistic setting by making you do some weird stuff, thus making puzzle be part of being flaw of The Longest Journey.

Also many of the character placement wasn't anything unusual and very predictable. Also many of the direction quest started to get easily annoying with slow control of the character and sending character all over the place. Or the game didn't go great job leading you to next location for event to happen so you ended up wandering all over the place.

The game was in good because of story and presentation, rest of the game was just bonus that often turned into minor flaw.

Doom was the best game of all time? :P

Just because you can have a great game without much story doesn't mean people should set the bar so low and forget about story. That is the same kind of thinking that leads to someone suggesting we close the patent office ;)

Games without a story become boring, it gives you no drive to complete missions and complete the game as a whole. Take for example Knights of the Old Republic, a highly praised RPG for its unique story and revelations, if it didn't have a storyline then there wouldnt be a point in playing it or completing missions in it. All people would do is run around swinging their lightsaber at everything!

Games need a storyline if they have any hope of becoming successful in the industry today.

To add something...

even porn can be great if they have great story.

Proven by Kana Little Sister.

Not really.

The puzzle kept the game out of the realistic setting by making you do some weird stuff, thus making puzzle be part of being flaw of The Longest Journey.

Also many of the character placement wasn't anything unusual and very predictable. Also many of the direction quest started to get easily annoying with slow control of the character and sending character all over the place. Or the game didn't go great job leading you to next location for event to happen so you ended up wandering all over the place.

The game was in good because of story and presentation, rest of the game was just bonus that often turned into minor flaw.

TriangleHard

First of all game pacing and story pacing literally go hand and hand in gaming.

But if what you say is true then the game just sucks.

Might as well have just turned into a movie since stories always turn out better in that medium.

To add something...

even porn can be great if they have great story.

Proven by Kana Little Sister.

TriangleHard

Playmate of the Apes owns!

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Not really.

The puzzle kept the game out of the realistic setting by making you do some weird stuff, thus making puzzle be part of being flaw of The Longest Journey.

Also many of the character placement wasn't anything unusual and very predictable. Also many of the direction quest started to get easily annoying with slow control of the character and sending character all over the place. Or the game didn't go great job leading you to next location for event to happen so you ended up wandering all over the place.

The game was in good because of story and presentation, rest of the game was just bonus that often turned into minor flaw.

Dencore

First of all game pacing and story pacing literally go hand and hand in gaming.

But if what you say is true then the game just sucks.

Might as well have just turned into a movie since stories always turn out better in that medium.

To add something...

even porn can be great if they have great story.

Proven by Kana Little Sister.

TriangleHard

Playmate of the Apes owns!

If the game was a movie, it would've been terrible.

The size of the story was too large for a movie and it would've lost many charms of talking to your land lady and listen to her lesbian story.

It was a story better told as a game than a movie and it did excellent job at that. Telling that story and it is excellent game.

If the game was a movie, it would've been terrible.

The size of the story was too large for a movie and it would've lost many charms of talking to your land lady and listen to her lesbian story.

It was a story better told as a game than a movie and it did excellent job at that. Telling that story and it is excellent game.

TriangleHard

Well it wouldn't have to be a "movie" per say I guess I over generalized, I think series or motion art would be better.

That way the creator could tell the game EXACTLY how they wanted it while having the watcher go and not go through every little detail of the story.

Movies, Books, Series, etc are for stories.

Video Games are what they names for a Game on a video.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

If the game was a movie, it would've been terrible.

The size of the story was too large for a movie and it would've lost many charms of talking to your land lady and listen to her lesbian story.

It was a story better told as a game than a movie and it did excellent job at that. Telling that story and it is excellent game.

Dencore

Well it wouldn't have to be a "movie" per say I guess I over generalized, I think series or motion art would be better.

That way the creator could tell the game EXACTLY how they wanted it while having the watcher go and not go through every little detail of the story.

Movies, Books, Series, etc are for stories.

Video Games are what they names for a Game on a video.

but that loses quite a bit of purpose.

It wouldn't draw you in like the game has because you had freedom of exploration with visual effects that can entrance you.

The Longest Journey didn't try to EXACTLY show you how the story unfolds. That interaction and freedom was huge part of the story telling that really enhanced the experience.

The story was undoubtly best told through gaming medium and it did great job. Stop trying to put the game down because it excels with story and presentation while lacking in gameplay aspect. It was great the way it was made and showed that games don't always have to be about the precision of your fingers but can be approached like a book.

To be fixated on idea of having games as games is what limits the possibility. Why not expand your freedom and let it be something more than just a game? That's how your break new ground and make something greater.

....you don't need them.

This is an epic quote from John Carmack. I believe that there is some truth to it, I mean look at Doom, arguably the best game of all time, and it hardly had a story.

Dopemonk736

John Carmack is a programmer. He doesn't design games, only the engine. Why would he care if a game has a great story or not? It's not his job and concern.

And why are you quoting a programmer on his opinion on stories in video games?

• Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
• Indigo Prophecy (also known as Fahrenheit)
• Outcast
• Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
• Baldur's Gate II

I agree. Games should have better stories not that they don't because only few do. Especially now because 90% of gamers are above 17 so a story is a requirement for today's games. Also, stories can help sell crappy games like Silent Hill and many other games were the story is the main focus and they're only still selling "for the sake of the story". RPG games are about stories. If game has somewhat ok gameplay a story can make it look better.

I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.TriangleHard

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey is a good example, but the original...had fantastic gameplay. Most of the puzzles were very well designed and most importantly made sense with a few really inspired puzzles. Sure, there were times where you'd get stuck and wasn't exactly sure where you're supposed to be going, but that doesn't negate all the great stuff the game pulls off. Both story-wise and gameplay-wise, The Longest Journey is easily one of the pinnacles of point 'n click adventure gaming.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]I think The Longest Journey disagrees with you.UpInFlames

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey is a good example, but the original...had fantastic gameplay. Most of the puzzles were very well designed and most importantly made sense with a few really inspired puzzles. Sure, there were times where you'd get stuck and wasn't exactly sure where you're supposed to be going, but that doesn't negate all the great stuff the game pulls off. Both story-wise and gameplay-wise, The Longest Journey is easily one of the pinnacles of point 'n click adventure gaming.

Actually I found most of the puzzles really taking me out of the game too often. Some of the puzzles was good like setting up monkey toy to look like mob with a gun, but many others was just wtf? It felt like game developers was forced to put SOMETHING there so there is at least some kind of gameplay aspect to the game.

That's why I think The Longest Journey has poor gameplay. Also, let's not kid ourselves here. Leave out the story and The Longest Journey can easily be worst game you've ever played. Story pretty much made the game what it is. Everything else mattered so little.

Well, there's some truth to his statement. Stories are not a primary feature of gaming; a game doesn't need a story to be fun. And I say this as someone who reads avidly and writes stories himself.

That said, a good story can improve most games considerably, and in such situations, there really isn't any reason not to have a decent one. Just because you don't need one to have good game, that doesn't mean it's a good choice to leave it out.

But to see that a story is not an inherent requirement of gaming, you don't have to look any farther than the many genres which have little or no story and still produce solid games.

For the record, I strongly dislike Carmack's implied devaluing of games as being worth the same as porn; but with the kind of games he makes, it's no surprise that he feels that way.

....you don't need them.

This is an epic quote from John Carmack. I believe that there is some truth to it, I mean look at Doom, arguably the best game of all time, and it hardly had a story.

Dopemonk736

Well if ur the type of gamer that just playes games for action andsome mindless fun then i guess u can belive that quote!

But seeing u have an Warcraft 3 avatar mind if I ask u did u enjoy the campaing in War3??

If u played,finished and enjoyed it im sure a big part of that enjoyment comes from the rich world and the good fantasy setting it offers!!

PS-doom was considered soo good couse it established a genre!!!Also couse it was a graphics whores wet dream!!!:P

....you don't need them.

This is an epic quote from John Carmack. I believe that there is some truth to it, I mean look at Doom, arguably the best game of all time, and it hardly had a story.

Dopemonk736

Yeah.....well, some of us like other genres like RPG or Adventure, genre's where some form of story is practically required, and even some action adventure.

Of course John Carmack is gonna say a dumb qoute like that....developers always say lame quotes that are only in their present best interests.

John Carmack pretty much only makes FPS games....a genre that isn't exactly the beacon of top storytelling.....not to mention Id Software's games have never had any kind of decent story whatsoever. And even in the FPS genre, one of the reasons Id Software's recent games have been bested by other games in the genre like HL2, Halo, F.E.A.R., Far Cry, etc. is because they had better plot presentation.

That "epic" quote from John Carmack was made in early 2004.....funny how that year Doom 3, his baby, got it's ass handed to it, both in sales and critical acclaim, by FPS games like Half Life 2 and Halo 2....both which had FAR better plot presentation then Doom III (not to mention better gameplay).

This is like Mark Rein's now infamous "graphics matter most" to the success of a console....yet a year later Wii is the worldwide leader. Not only that, but now that Cryengine 2 looks to be stealing UE3's thunder from a technical standpoint, Epic has now changed it's tune and now is claiming "artistic" presentation matters most.

Like I said....hyped developers will always say dumb quotes when it suits their best interest at the time, and it's funny how they also change their tune as things in the market and industry change.

....you don't need them.

Dopemonk736

I don'twant a story when I play ping-pong or pool, and I don'twant one when I play a videogame either. If someone stops me from sinking a ball in a game of pool to tell me a little story aboutwhy it's so important to sink that ball, it's just going to piss me off. It's the same thing when a cutscene interupts my videogame. It doesn't help that it's inevitably some ridiculous sci-fi/ fantasy/ action storyline.

This is probably the number one reason that I have drifted away from gaming in recent years. The industry has catered to sci-fi geeks who are more interested in somestory about anancient (or alien) race whose power has been locked away in some amulet (and it's about to fall into the hands of evil!) than they are about actually playing a game with challenge and strategy.

I don't know if Wii games are providing that either, but I hope that the Wii phenomenon lets the industry know that there are still a lot of potential gamers out there who aren't Dungeons and Dragons type nerds. We just want to PLAY our games ... not "experience" them.

John Carmack is a very skillful programmer (or rather, used to be), but just because id never even attempted to implement a storyline of any kind into their games doesn't mean he's right. Also, in what alternate universe is Doom arguably the best...well, anything? It's not, and id's refusal of evolving in any way has relegated Doom 3 to antiquity and irrelevance.

UpInFlames

Exactly.....I couldn't have said it better.

Like I said it's interesting that Carmack made this quote in early 2004.....yet it's the very attitude of that quote that led to Doom 3 being regarded by many as a disappointment in addition to being quickly forgotten and irrelevant compared to other games in the genre that actually choose to evolve and present some form of focus on plot.