Sony Patent May Kill Second Hand Market

Just read it here http://www.gamechup.com/sony-patent-new-tech-that-suppresses-second-hand-game-sales/

Your thoughts on this?

Typical Sony, typical Japanese management thinking. Restricted competition, protected markets, it's the Japanese way.

I'm sure if you were to go through every patent Sony has ever filed you'd find a gigantic collection of stuff that never made it to market. Big companies are always filing for patents on everything they come up with. They may not end up using the majority of those technologies, but if they do, they want to make sure nobody else can use it without paying them for it.

In the long run, I think all the major companies know that used games hurt their and the developer's profits, but at the same time blocking access to them on their respective consoles would hurt even more. I would hurt public image for the companies, as people would see the product as too restrictive and how it takes away the consumer's options. It would also hurt potential sales that a consumer could make based on a used game experience (EX: the consumer bought a game used, liked it, then decided to buy the sequel new when it comes out), though this is rather difficult to give an actual concrete value to. In short, I think that if a company were to block used games, it would piss off the consumer, something that many companies have suffered because of.

Before the launch of the PS3, there was talk of Sony implementing a sort of licensing system to lock out used games. I think it was through a patent that the idea was discovered. Obviously it never happened, though. I imagine the same will apply here. Patents get made all the time. Just because a patent exists doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is under development.

Before the launch of the PS3, there was talk of Sony implementing a sort of licensing system to lock out used games. I think it was through a patent that the idea was discovered. Obviously it never happened, though. I imagine the same will apply here. Patents get made all the time. Just because a patent exists doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is under development.

c_rake

I'm aware that digital is the future, but I don't like this at all. If this comes to fruition in the next Xbox and PS4, I'll be switching to a PC.

The second hand market for the PC is nearly nonexistant. Its not that big of a deal.

Next gen seems more and more ridiculous every day.

I'll be alright with a Ps3, 360, and soon a Wii-U for a very long time. Screw next gen.

I can see the price of games stay higher longer with a decrease in the second hand market.

They said the same with PS3's blu-ray. In the end it will turn out to be lies.

The second hand market for the PC is nearly nonexistant. Its not that big of a deal.

XaosII

The second hand market for the PC is nearly nonexistant. Its not that big of a deal.

XaosII

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

Before the launch of the PS3, there was talk of Sony implementing a sort of licensing system to lock out used games. I think it was through a patent that the idea was discovered. Obviously it never happened, though. I imagine the same will apply here. Patents get made all the time. Just because a patent exists doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is under development.

SciFiCat

The second hand market for the PC is nearly nonexistant. Its not that big of a deal.

XaosII

Not yet anyway. But a day will come eventually when a big DD service goes out of business (be it Steam, Origin, etc), and when that day comes... people will be pissed.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

The second hand market for the PC is nearly nonexistant. Its not that big of a deal.

Vari3ty

Not yet anyway. But a day will come eventually when a big DD service goes out of business (be it Steam, Origin, etc), and when that day comes... people will be pissed.

They want to ensure that everyone in the future who implement this feature with their console has to pay them. They would be absolute imbeciles to actually implement this feature with the PS4. Especially after the fiasco still lingering around the PS3. If it is instituted, I will not purchase anything from Sony. Ever. I do love Sony, have since they joined gaming, but taking away my choice, is the first and final straw. I will go Legacy, since I have no desire to buy M$ or Ninty consoles. At present at least.

I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?

I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.

Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^

Justforvisit

Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?

I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.

Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^

c_rake

Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.

Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.

Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.wiouds

Your point being...?

What Valve does as a development studio and a retailer are very different things. They're obviously very slow on the former, but they've so far been good on delivering whatever new features they announce for Steam.

Typical Sony, typical Japanese management thinking. Restricted competition, protected markets, it's the Japanese way.

capaho

You sure like to talk about Japanese culture as if you're an expert. Sadly, you're almost always wrong.

The PS3 was one of the most open consoles of its time. It was devoid of many restrictions that are prevalant among all console makers, Japanese or Western.

1. No Region Locking - Want to import a cheaper version of the Matrix trilogy, go right ahead. Want to import Demon Souls which was originally never going to get released in the U.S, sure, go right ahead.
2. Use any bluetooth headset instead of the expensive official one like MS forces everyone to use.
3. Use any laptop HDD instead of the expensive official one like MS forces everyone to use.
4. Use any webcam instead of the expensive offical one like MS forces everyone to use.
5. Use any keyboard and mouse.

They have become more restrictive in recent years, but they have still released a very open PS Vita.

No console maker/publisher likes piracy or second hand gamesales. EA was the one who introduced the online pass. Ubisoft has long been notorious about always online DRM. Saying Sony's reason for combating used game sales is due to some Japanese way of thinking is bullsh*t.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.c_rake

Your point being...?

What Valve does as a development studio and a retailer are very different things. They're obviously very slow on the former, but they've so far been good on delivering whatever new features they announce for Steam.

That does not change the fact that they said something that did not happen. So their statements about what happen when steam shuts down not have as much strength.

For all those saying that the used games market hurts developers, thats not clear actually. This is question of economics and there needs to be some empirical evidence before getting to a conclusion. If the used games market is killed then it should be remembered that the demand for new games will definitely go down. If I know that when I buy a $60 game I can sell it for $30, then I will buy it as though the cost of the game on me will be just $30. If tomorrow the used games market is killed and I know I can not sell the game then I will have to see whether the game is worth $60 to me. For many people games are not worth $60 and indeed the demand for games will definitely go down. What Sony or any other company should consider is whether revenues are higher or lower with or without this technology.

The real question here is what is the most effective way to scream it at them? With stuff like this slowly it really starts to become ridiculous.Justforvisit

I'm not a fan of pre-owned games anyway so it doesn't really bother me either way... We need financially healthy developers.hrt_rulz01

Although this is only a patent and not a reality, it gives me less expectations of the next gen being anything worthwhile investing in. I typically buy games new, but it's the principal of this being implemented that concerns me. I doubt Sony is that dumb, but if they are, I'll take my business elsewhere.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

Before the launch of the PS3, there was talk of Sony implementing a sort of licensing system to lock out used games. I think it was through a patent that the idea was discovered. Obviously it never happened, though. I imagine the same will apply here. Patents get made all the time. Just because a patent exists doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is under development.

SciFiCat

"Enough" has been a line that has long ago since passed. DRM which couldn't get any worse (*cough cough* Diablo III) has been used that has literally broken the game on release and has gimped it even today, and STILL people defend it. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could ever defend that fiasco after what happened (and the restrictions still imposed). Yet here we are, with the upcoming Simcity 3 using the same damn DRM. "Enough" will never be reached, because there will always be morons out there who don't care.

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?

I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.

Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^

c_rake

Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?

I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.

Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^

LongZhiZi

Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.

If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.

[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="c_rake"]

Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.

MirkoS77

If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.

If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"] Lies, and they know it. If Valve ever went bankrupt, the creditors run the show, not Valve. That's beyond the fact that if Steam really was going out of business, some other DD (Amazon, EA, etc) would probably buy it for the userbase/technology involved.wiouds

If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.

If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.

What about consumer rights? When someone pays for something, that comes with certain rights.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.

MirkoS77

If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.

What about consumer rights? When someone pays for something, that comes with certain rights.

It depend on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.

I think this would hurt Sony's marketability more than anything else. Then again, that's assuming Microsoft and Nintendo didn't do the same thing themselves with their games.

It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.

wiouds

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.

MirkoS77

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.

Stream does not sell the product. They sell the right to use stream to get access to the game.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.

MirkoS77

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.

LongZhiZi

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.

Indeed. The only way I really have any peace of mind from digital purchases is when they are DRM free, like GOG games.

If they do anything with this, it could backfire on them because the used game market is as large as it is right now. If Microsoft and Nintendo continue to allow used game sales, gamers might buy their consoles instead of the PS4.BranKetra

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age?

MirkoS77

You sure like to talk about Japanese culture as if you're an expert. Sadly, you're almost always wrong.

Saying Sony's reason for combating used game sales is due to some Japanese way of thinking is bullsh*t.

S0lidSnake

I have extensive business dealings in Japan going back more than 15 years. I know the country and the culture quite well. What, specifically, am I almost always wrong about?

Indeed. The only way I really have any peace of mind from digital purchases is when they are DRM free, like GOG games.

Vari3ty

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]If they do anything with this, it could backfire on them because the used game market is as large as it is right now. If Microsoft and Nintendo continue to allow used game sales, gamers might buy their consoles instead of the PS4.Bigboi500

Either the PS4 and next Xbox both block used games or they don't, I don't see any middle ground here.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]If they do anything with this, it could backfire on them because the used game market is as large as it is right now. If Microsoft and Nintendo continue to allow used game sales, gamers might buy their consoles instead of the PS4.Vari3ty

Either the PS4 and next Xbox both block used games or they don't, I don't see any middle ground here.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age?

El_Zo1212o

I tell you man, I really love this hobby but as each year passes it seems worse and worse things are being implemented that are bordering on ruining the fun. I've never seen any other industry or hobby so detrimentally affected as gaming is, and am concerned whether it can weather the storm. Perhaps another crash is needed...

I just dont get how they think this is gonna be a good move for the company.Gamestop and all those stores are gonna close, and people will not be able to rent.....mrsniper83

Places like Gamestop and (especially) Gamefly depend on the used game market, they would not go down without a fight. If Sony did take this step, not only would nobody buy their hardware but I'd think there'd be a huge legal battle between GS, GF, and Sony that I have faith Sony would lose. Considering their dire financial situation, they couldn't be that stupid and if they are they deserve to go under. If this happens it'll be interesting to watch to say the least, and if Sony gets its way it will save me money as I'll never buy such a system. Maybe when it's at the end of its lifespan and not bringing in any more revenue I'll buy one, like at the PS 5's release.....if Sony survives that long.