SNES vs Sega Genesis/Mega Drive [poll added]

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Emerald_Warrior

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Jag85

I love both systems. I actually just changed my avatar yesterday, I had a Resident Evil one, and I just got sick of staring at the same picture. But Metroid games do rule.

:o, that poll is so close, Sega still does what Nintendon't. Which comes in faster gameplay, rtses, better shmups, and more imagination (games like ToeJam & Earl).

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Emerald_Warrior

I love both systems. I actually just changed my avatar yesterday, I had a Resident Evil one, and I just got sick of staring at the same picture. But Metroid games do rule.

[QUOTE="Another48hours"] At least that's something I can agree with you on. The SMS certainly lasted a lot longer in Europe than the NES did in North America.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the SNES was dominating in German-speaking countries like Germany, Austria and Switzerland. The MD was more popular in the UK and I think in France, Spain and Italy.

Nintendo had a very strong presence in German-speaking countries whereas Sega had it's fort in the UK (untill the PlayStation came out that is).

Jag85

I think you might be right there, though only slightly. The SNES edged out the Mega Drive in Germany by only about 100,000 units in 1994, according to figures from Screen Digest. Germany has always been Nintendo's largest market in Europe, I believe. Nevertheless, the Mega Drive still held a 60% share of the 16-bit market in Western Europe in 1994.

1. I said started to Crash, apparently you're incapable of understanding that crash and decline are the same thing. Also, I am not wrong, companies that weren't dead were making more money and were rising and when the NES expanded the market they already were clear in, and one would be Activision. Who was one of the ones pulling most of that revenue you mentioned.

2.No a person said the the MAJORITY of Atari 2600 games were copies. Which is not true. My point is that there were to many of a specific genre on the sysytems themselves in the 4th generation. Other than maybe arguably the Turbo to some degree each system focuses on a select few regardless of popularity. They take up most shelf space. It is also not the reason Atari crashed, the competiton atrted cloning games on the 2600, having games work on everybody's consoles, and games that came out before a game can't be a clone of a game if the game didn't exist. Back to the point, no, you're just being stupid yet again, there is no fanboyism, the argument is that the 2600 has less clones then original games. No spinning it like you're trying to, and its true. You may disagree but you're wrong.

3. Wait, so apparently typing on a PC qualifies as superior english? I guess the reason why you keep failing and trying to spin things and bragging about Internet language is because you lack the mental ability to speak in real life and think this is a fine substitute. Also, you lack comprehension. Maybe I am typing fast? Also, it's hard to say my words ere gibberish before when the point you messed up on was isolated and clear as day and then you quoted almost the exact same words anyway. That's massive failure right there. Remedial basic math, Remedial English, Remedial potty training, man you need it all.Another48hours

1. Nice try at putting a spin there, but once again, you're wrong. All you're doing is going around in circles. First you say that "Started to begin and began are two different things" (an oxymoron) and now you say that "crash and decline are the same thing"... You're obviously a confused young man (or woman). As for Activision, do you have any figures on their revenues for the years 1983-1986 or are you just making it up? Either way, I can guarantee you that whatever revenues they did generate was mainly from the unaffected PC market, not from the declining console market. And like I said before, the console market had declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985. Before the NES came along, the console market was close to extinction. There were analysts at the time who even predicted the NES would fail in North America because of how bad the NA console market was at the time.

2. The reason I was calling you a hypocrite and/or fanboy before is because you keep making absurd claims. You seem to be pushing your hatred of the SNES too far beyond reason by claiming that most of the SNES's library is just games that are copies of each other. This would be okay if you said it was the same for most consoles in general, but for some irrational reason, you are making an exception for all the Atari consoles, even though Atari was responsible for the worst crash the gaming industry had ever seen, caused mainly by the lack of originality and deluge of similar games that put off consumers from buying their games altogether. You can blame their competitors like Mattel and Coleco all you want for copying some of their games, but that makes very little difference, due to the fact that Atari was far more dominant than all of them combined anyway. If the SNES (and/or Mega Drive) was worse than the Atari 2600 (and/or Intellivision and ColecoVision) in terms of originality and copying, then there would have been an even bigger crash after the 16-bit era, which of course never happened, a fact that speaks for itself, i.e. the evidence is against you, my friend.

3. Nice try at dodging the argument and instead resorting to petty personal attacks and childish name-calling. Now you're starting to sound like an immature brat. Just to remind you, and I'll re-word it to make it easier for you to understand (since your grasp of the English language is clearly lacking), I said that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 resemble Pac-Man far more closely than most of the platformers on the 16-bit consoles do to Mario. The fact that you failed to respond to this leads me to believe that, at worst, you have no argument against it, or at best, you agree with it.

2. This whole post is irrelevant, your spinning and running in circles and trying to find irelevant things that mess you up. Sort of like someone else here. I already mentioned I preferred the SNES slightly but apparently I hate it? I have no bias I will talk **** about a game you think is good if it is not actually good period. I have no favorites, Also ATARI themselves did not cause the video game crash, that wasn't even CONSIDERED even as much now until IGN made a plague of ignorance coming out there as and everyone who wrote that article should die a slow and painful death. Also the evidence is not against me, there are now more gamers, and you have to pay a large amount t get a lot of shelf space or copies. That wasn't an issue then in the 16-bit era. Especially since you can't play MD games on a SNES. Comparing to unrelated things is a colossal failure.

3.Not dodging the argument, like I said before you quote me what I said then you somehow magically don't see the words. I don't agree with you as already said before. You lack any actual knowledge of what you're talking about. There were more games similar to Mario then Pac-man so how can there be more games that play like Pac-man? Most of the plat formers played largely similar to Mario. There were more Pac-man clones that could/have played differently then Pac-man then Mario clones than Mario clones did to Mario. Most platformers on the SNES, heck the NES played almost exactly like it. There had never been a clear showcase of laziness.

You're spinning, denying misreading, and intentionally putting words I never said. Especially thinking I hate the SNES based on no information whatsoever.

I gotta give it to SNES. I loved that console and sunk many, many hours into it. I guess one of the driving reasons that I loved the SNES so much was that it could handle game lengths and scopes that the Genesis just could not touch. Final Fantasy, Mario, and Samus please.

The games that were exclusive seemed kinda... shallow (?) compared to SNES titles. I could play DKC2 for days with my family and friends and STILL not have found everything in the game. The Genesis games seemed very basic in comparison. Very few Genesis games could actually save your data, which meant that the games were necessarily limited in their scope and length. There are of course exceptions such as Phantasy Star and others, but for the most part most of the Genesis's catalog were action games that were really fun but burned out after you beat them the first time or didn't have any way of "proving" that you did something. I can show you on my cartridge today that in Zelda: Link to the Past I've found every item and every heart piece. When I boot up Sonic 2 however, you would never have known that I had gotten every chaos emerald and beaten the game. It's like it never existed. I couldn't shake that mindset of "arcade-type" experience from the Genesis titles.

The Genesis had some great action games (Gunstar Heroes comes to mind) but overall the catalog of the SNES combined with the abilities of the system push it over the top. The SNES is my favorite console of all time and there are a lot of good reason for that.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. Nice try at putting a spin there, but once again, you're wrong. All you're doing is going around in circles. First you say that "Started to begin and began are two different things" (an oxymoron) and now you say that "crash and decline are the same thing"... You're obviously a confused young man (or woman). As for Activision, do you have any figures on their revenues for the years 1983-1986 or are you just making it up? Either way, I can guarantee you that whatever revenues they did generate was mainly from the unaffected PC market, not from the declining console market. And like I said before, the console market had declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985. Before the NES came along, the console market was close to extinction. There were analysts at the time who even predicted the NES would fail in North America because of how bad the NA console market was at the time.

2. The reason I was calling you a hypocrite and/or fanboy before is because you keep making absurd claims. You seem to be pushing your hatred of the SNES too far beyond reason by claiming that most of the SNES's library is just games that are copies of each other. This would be okay if you said it was the same for most consoles in general, but for some irrational reason, you are making an exception for all the Atari consoles, even though Atari was responsible for the worst crash the gaming industry had ever seen, caused mainly by the lack of originality and deluge of similar games that put off consumers from buying their games altogether. You can blame their competitors like Mattel and Coleco all you want for copying some of their games, but that makes very little difference, due to the fact that Atari was far more dominant than all of them combined anyway. If the SNES (and/or Mega Drive) was worse than the Atari 2600 (and/or Intellivision and ColecoVision) in terms of originality and copying, then there would have been an even bigger crash after the 16-bit era, which of course never happened, a fact that speaks for itself, i.e. the evidence is against you, my friend.

3. Nice try at dodging the argument and instead resorting to petty personal attacks and childish name-calling. Now you're starting to sound like an immature brat. Just to remind you, and I'll re-word it to make it easier for you to understand (since your grasp of the English language is clearly lacking), I said that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 resemble Pac-Man far more closely than most of the platformers on the 16-bit consoles do to Mario. The fact that you failed to respond to this leads me to believe that, at worst, you have no argument against it, or at best, you agree with it.

Another48hours

2. This whole post is irrelevant, your spinning and running in circles and trying to find irelevant things that mess you up. Sort of like someone else here. I already mentioned I preferred the SNES slightly but apparently I hate it? I have no bias I will talk **** about a game you think is good if it is not actually good period. I have no favorites, Also ATARI themselves did not cause the video game crash, that wasn't even CONSIDERED even as much now until IGN made a plague of ignorance coming out there as and everyone who wrote that article should die a slow and painful death. Also the evidence is not against me, there are now more gamers, and you have to pay a large amount t get a lot of shelf space or copies. That wasn't an issue then in the 16-bit era. Especially since you can't play MD games on a SNES. Comparing to unrelated things is a colossal failure.

3.Not dodging the argument, like I said before you quote me what I said then you somehow magically don't see the words. I don't agree with you as already said before. You lack any actual knowledge of what you're talking about. There were more games similar to Mario then Pac-man so how can there be more games that play like Pac-man? Most of the plat formers played largely similar to Mario. There were more Pac-man clones that could/have played differently then Pac-man then Mario clones than Mario clones did to Mario. Most platformers on the SNES, heck the NES played almost exactly like it. There had never been a clear showcase of laziness.

You're spinning, denying misreading, and intentionally putting words I never said. Especially thinking I hate the SNES based on no information whatsoever.

1. I've already given figures to back up my argument. On the other hand, you have failed to provide even a single figure to back up your argument. Your argument is nothing more than a worthless opinion unless you can provide actual figures, which you have failed to do despite me requesting you to do so. The fact of the matter is that the console gaming industry declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985, the year that the NES released. This is a fact that you cannot deny. It was the NES that revived the console gaming industry, not the Atari 7800, which was released after the NES in 1986 and sold only a tiny percentage (3.7 million) of what the NES sold (61.9 million). You are in complete denial, my not-so-clever friend.

2. You're telling me you are not biased against Nintendo despite denying their historically documented role in the revival of the console gaming industry, dismissing the NES as a toy and "not a gaming console", and claiming most of the SNES's library are copies? After all this, you expect me to believe you are not biased against Nintendo? Sure, whatever. As for Atari, they may not have been solely responsible for the crash, with Coleco and Mattel also playing their parts, but Atari were the leading player behind it. And I don't know what IGN article you're referring to, because I get my information from actual 80s/90s published sources, not from recent online articles. And most of those 80s/90s articles also blame Atari, even going as far as calling it the "Atari crash". You act like Atari was still alive and well at the time, as if their bankruptcy in 1984 never happened. Once again, you are in denial.

3. Not only do you lack any knowledge on the video game industry at all, but your reading comprehension is also extremely poor, despite me spelling it out to you: I did not say there are more Pac-Man clones than Mario clones, but that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 borrow far more heavily from Pac-Man than most of the 16-bit platformers do from Super Mario Bros. The only thing the 16-bit platformers have in common with SMB is the side-scrolling perspective, but otherwise they all play differently, have different gameplay mechanics and physics, different worlds and level designs, and often belong to completely different genres. It's no different to how most Atari 2600 games used an overhead perspective like Pac-Man, or how most of today's games use a first-person perspective like Doom or third-person perspective like Mario 64. Besides, you were the one denying that most of the maze games on the Atari 2600 borrow anything from Pac-Man, despite the fact that it predated nearly all of them and was by far the most popular video game of that era. Your complete denial of the widely known facts amazes me. You sound like some conspiracy theorist who thinks all the widely known facts are lies and only your own conspiracies are true. It's getting ridiculous now.

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Emerald_Warrior

You know both will be just fine, right? I saw a video of a kid just throwing his Genesis in the air, letting it fall on concrete, the thing was just fine. Let me tell you what, here is where Nintendo went wrong, Samus is... a b!tccch Like why is she in a male Chasis, it makes no logical sense, males have the broad shoulders, not females. Samus wishes she had a penis this is why Genesis is better, it makes more sense. Sonic is fighting robots, harming no one, even saving cute little animlals. Mario stomps on any domesticated animal he can find, yeah sure there are the slave masters, throwing hammers, and $hit But most of them are just walking around, wtf mario. Sonic is a much more logical character, Mario is like Italians (me), just an angry bitter Italian with short man syndrome, taking out his frustrations on a bunch of mostly helpless animals. Sure Bowser steals a nice woman with a nice padunkadunk. That does that give him a reason to throw bowser in lava!? See Sonic is saving animals, Mario is the bully, who stomps them to oblivion, WHAT AN @$$HOLE! Though he kind of makes me proud to be Italian, showwing off our bad tempers!

Oh and Genesis is back in the league!

48hours, you are taking Vulknuts place, it seems, or just argueing about trivial stuff, seriously, you dont need to quote that much text, no one is going to read that. And seriously, keep it Snes versus Genesis.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Emerald_Warrior

I love both systems. I actually just changed my avatar yesterday, I had a Resident Evil one, and I just got sick of staring at the same picture. But Metroid games do rule.

Had you not posted this I wouldn't have even looked at your user name and known it was you. You're one of the few people I recoqgnize in this place. Typically I hate everyone and remember even less. My advanced cyber-optics read you as non-hostile. Although I did prefer the RE avatar but that's just a matter of gaming preference.

Is anyone else finding this topic incredibly boring now that it's just like two people squabbling and one person who is upset that Samus is sans-penis?

Here's how we decide who finally wins:

You drop a Sega Genesis and a SNES from the top of a flight of stairs, and whichever can still read a cartridge after the ordeal wins! If they both survive then, uh, SNES WINS!

...let me know how it ends up.

Emerald_Warrior

Well, my snes was thrown down a flight of stairs, landed on cement, and it still worked--true story. I can't speak for Genesis, though.

Samus has a penis btw!:P

edit: ^got fifteen dollars? Just buy a Genesis, do the same exact thing.

Samus has a penis btw!:P

mahlasor

I would be more interested if this were the new thread topic. Instead we have the equivalent of pock-marked fat kids swinging no. 2 pencils while making light saber noises. Nevermind, that would be more fun too..

This thread is now about Emerald_warrior's avatar. Well, how about we continue the original debate like I have been doing, while we kind of have this sub topic.:D I just realised whose name is behind the avatar. I am sorry, but there is just something rediculous about Samus wearing an rediculously oversized suit, that does not even match her female characteristics. What does she do when she is on her period anyways? Though that is making the claim she has a vagina.

edit: This has to be the deepest Sega vs. Genesis debate ever. It goes back to Atari.

This thread is now about Emerald_warrior's avatar. Well, how about we continue the original debate like I have been doing, while we kind of have this sub topic.:D I just realised whose name is behind the avatar. I am sorry, but there is just something rediculous about Samus wearing an rediculously oversized suit, that does not even match her female characteristics. What does she do when she is on her period anyways? Though that is making the claim she has a vagina.

edit: This has to be the deepest Sega vs. Genesis debate ever. It goes back to Atari.

mahlasor

Maybe it's to intimidate her foes. Or so they don't think of her by gender. Maybe it was just a plot twist. Maybe this topic has the words penis and vagina more times than any other topic. Three months ago we would have been banned for this...

Exactly, lol. Three months ago it would of been a big deal, I guess this forum has been Americanized, more freedom of speech. It was communist before. Anyways back to the topic, here is what I noticed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOJY7E8Q6T4

Zombie ate my Neighbors. It is kind of down to opinion which ****of sound and graphics you like. Though I think it is a bit misleading, because if you have a model 1 Sega Genesis, the bass is actually better, so this is probably coming from a Sega Model 2. One thing I notice is that the Genesis graphics indeed are more texturized, and aim to be more "realistic looking," several people have commented on this. Seems like a reality to me. It makes sense sense Nintendo was catering to kids, who probably would not give a crap anyways. I am about to get an AV cable for the Sega Genesis, might even pick up Zombie ate my Neighbors.. maybe, its a long game though.

edit: umm, but they are going to think "she" is male, so they will think of "her" by gender. I mean, I played Samus in Super Smash brothers thinking I was playing the super badass character, that is more masculine than the other Nintendork characters.. Then... that day came, you know.. And no I am not a masochist, to play original Nes games made by Nintendo to their fullest. What kind of people will play a game that is that difficult!?

I have never beat Super Mario brothers because in trying, the game would just be meaningless, repetive bs. Thank god Sonic came around, to save us from that bs. Nintendo was sure good at dragging a game out longer than it needed to be. Probably why the Super Nintendo used battery saves way more, because Nintendo knew the ****of gaming on Nintendo would be 10X better with the ability to save. Genesis only did this with Sonic 3, and it really was not needed. Might as well just use the cheat system to select stages. At least with Super Nintendo games, I actually did beat Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, and Super Punchout.

edit 2: scrap that idea about throwing both consoles down and whichever survives, wins, and then if both survive the SNES wins... Umm, totally a rigged situation, because you know both are going to be fine. Sega has been winning in the polls this whole thread, you just jelly.

Since when did the SNES catch up and reach a tie-breaker with the Mega/Genesis?

It's like the 16-bit console wars repeating itself all over again...

[QUOTE="Another48hours"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. Nice try at putting a spin there, but once again, you're wrong. All you're doing is going around in circles. First you say that "Started to begin and began are two different things" (an oxymoron) and now you say that "crash and decline are the same thing"... You're obviously a confused young man (or woman). As for Activision, do you have any figures on their revenues for the years 1983-1986 or are you just making it up? Either way, I can guarantee you that whatever revenues they did generate was mainly from the unaffected PC market, not from the declining console market. And like I said before, the console market had declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985. Before the NES came along, the console market was close to extinction. There were analysts at the time who even predicted the NES would fail in North America because of how bad the NA console market was at the time.

2. The reason I was calling you a hypocrite and/or fanboy before is because you keep making absurd claims. You seem to be pushing your hatred of the SNES too far beyond reason by claiming that most of the SNES's library is just games that are copies of each other. This would be okay if you said it was the same for most consoles in general, but for some irrational reason, you are making an exception for all the Atari consoles, even though Atari was responsible for the worst crash the gaming industry had ever seen, caused mainly by the lack of originality and deluge of similar games that put off consumers from buying their games altogether. You can blame their competitors like Mattel and Coleco all you want for copying some of their games, but that makes very little difference, due to the fact that Atari was far more dominant than all of them combined anyway. If the SNES (and/or Mega Drive) was worse than the Atari 2600 (and/or Intellivision and ColecoVision) in terms of originality and copying, then there would have been an even bigger crash after the 16-bit era, which of course never happened, a fact that speaks for itself, i.e. the evidence is against you, my friend.

3. Nice try at dodging the argument and instead resorting to petty personal attacks and childish name-calling. Now you're starting to sound like an immature brat. Just to remind you, and I'll re-word it to make it easier for you to understand (since your grasp of the English language is clearly lacking), I said that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 resemble Pac-Man far more closely than most of the platformers on the 16-bit consoles do to Mario. The fact that you failed to respond to this leads me to believe that, at worst, you have no argument against it, or at best, you agree with it.

Jag85

2. This whole post is irrelevant, your spinning and running in circles and trying to find irelevant things that mess you up. Sort of like someone else here. I already mentioned I preferred the SNES slightly but apparently I hate it? I have no bias I will talk **** about a game you think is good if it is not actually good period. I have no favorites, Also ATARI themselves did not cause the video game crash, that wasn't even CONSIDERED even as much now until IGN made a plague of ignorance coming out there as and everyone who wrote that article should die a slow and painful death. Also the evidence is not against me, there are now more gamers, and you have to pay a large amount t get a lot of shelf space or copies. That wasn't an issue then in the 16-bit era. Especially since you can't play MD games on a SNES. Comparing to unrelated things is a colossal failure.

3.Not dodging the argument, like I said before you quote me what I said then you somehow magically don't see the words. I don't agree with you as already said before. You lack any actual knowledge of what you're talking about. There were more games similar to Mario then Pac-man so how can there be more games that play like Pac-man? Most of the plat formers played largely similar to Mario. There were more Pac-man clones that could/have played differently then Pac-man then Mario clones than Mario clones did to Mario. Most platformers on the SNES, heck the NES played almost exactly like it. There had never been a clear showcase of laziness.

You're spinning, denying misreading, and intentionally putting words I never said. Especially thinking I hate the SNES based on no information whatsoever.

1. I've already given figures to back up my argument. On the other hand, you have failed to provide even a single figure to back up your argument. Your argument is nothing more than a worthless opinion unless you can provide actual figures, which you have failed to do despite me requesting you to do so. The fact of the matter is that the console gaming industry declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985, the year that the NES released. This is a fact that you cannot deny. It was the NES that revived the console gaming industry, not the Atari 7800, which was released after the NES in 1986 and sold only a tiny percentage (3.7 million) of what the NES sold (61.9 million). You are in complete denial, my not-so-clever friend.

2. You're telling me you are not biased against Nintendo despite denying their historically documented role in the revival of the console gaming industry, dismissing the NES as a toy and "not a gaming console", and claiming most of the SNES's library are copies? After all this, you expect me to believe you are not biased against Nintendo? Sure, whatever. As for Atari, they may not have been solely responsible for the crash, with Coleco and Mattel also playing their parts, but Atari were the leading player behind it. And I don't know what IGN article you're referring to, because I get my information from actual 80s/90s published sources, not from recent online articles. And most of those 80s/90s articles also blame Atari, even going as far as calling it the "Atari crash". You act like Atari was still alive and well at the time, as if their bankruptcy in 1984 never happened. Once again, you are in denial.

3. Not only do you lack any knowledge on the video game industry at all, but your reading comprehension is also extremely poor, despite me spelling it out to you: I did not say there are more Pac-Man clones than Mario clones, but that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 borrow far more heavily from Pac-Man than most of the 16-bit platformers do from Super Mario Bros. The only thing the 16-bit platformers have in common with SMB is the side-scrolling perspective, but otherwise they all play differently, have different gameplay mechanics and physics, different worlds and level designs, and often belong to completely different genres. It's no different to how most Atari 2600 games used an overhead perspective like Pac-Man, or how most of today's games use a first-person perspective like Doom or third-person perspective like Mario 64. Besides, you were the one denying that most of the maze games on the Atari 2600 borrow anything from Pac-Man, despite the fact that it predated nearly all of them and was by far the most popular video game of that era. Your complete denial of the widely known facts amazes me. You sound like some conspiracy theorist who thinks all the widely known facts are lies and only your own conspiracies are true. It's getting ridiculous now.

>>>>>>>>

2. How can I be Biased against Nintendo? I already said I prefer the SNES over the Genesis, I played Coleco and Mattel systems more than the 2600 (Even though most of the games I liked was on the 2600 at the end.), and I never said most of the SNES was copies. I said that most of the platformers were. But apparently, despite me saying that 4054954 times, you're still too stupid to read it correctly. Also, you have know idea about gaming history. The NES was marketed as a toy, it was not advertised as what the Atari and Intel were advertised as. It aimed to expand the market instead of trying to convince the gamers of the past gen to get on their console. This is fact. Also, Atari was not the leading player. The impact of playing all games on all systems, putting preferred controllers on a competing console, and console clones released by idiots like Sears as well as the overwhelming amount of copies Coleco and Intell machines had all outweighed all the crap Atari did. While Atari, yes, did have a big impact. It is not over half the pie chart so many idiots keep claiming. It's still big, but putting MST F THE BLAME n them is pure stupidity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3. As mentioned above, you're the one without gaming knowledge as proven. I already stated the same thing back to you you keep saying I am not reading. It's just you can't understand your own stupid comment when spoken back to you. To make it similar for you, you're wrong and have no clue what you're talking about. Not in the slightest. I even laugh at they all play differently. Most really don't. They ether rename or replace items. Some give the illusion they do, and in the end it's the same thing. Also, most Atari games had a overhead because of Pac-man? Did you just take drugs when you said that? I better have had read that wrong.Also yes, I denied that most MAZE GAMES didn't borrow anything from PAc-man. It's even funnier you keep chaning from "MAZE" to "MAZE CHASE" back to "MAZE". Basically what you're telling me is all Maze games on the system took something from Pac-man. That's a load of BS. Heck, even if we just included games that had random lines in the middle of the screen like Pac-man you're wrong.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

4. So a game that predates other Maze games means the Maze games that came out after took thing from the game before it despite if they don't use anything from it? Also, even better, You're saying that without Pac-man, there would be no Adventure? I mean that is what you're saying, you do realize that right? See? You're theory is stupid. So please explain the widely know facts that are actually fact. I am waiting.

Chess > Backgammon

WHAT NOW SON???

Chess > Backgammon

WHAT NOW SON???

CDuG

UNO>Othello

UNO>Othello

CDuG

Herzog Zwei > Skippo

o:, a tie!

Beer > Herzog Zwei

Boobs > Samus' invisible penis

Boobs > Samus' invisible penis

CDuG

What? If there's not one there, isn't that a good thing? I'm confused.

You must have missed that part of the conversation.

Lol. Btw beer, and Herzog Zwei go very well together.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. I've already given figures to back up my argument. On the other hand, you have failed to provide even a single figure to back up your argument. Your argument is nothing more than a worthless opinion unless you can provide actual figures, which you have failed to do despite me requesting you to do so. The fact of the matter is that the console gaming industry declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985, the year that the NES released. This is a fact that you cannot deny. It was the NES that revived the console gaming industry, not the Atari 7800, which was released after the NES in 1986 and sold only a tiny percentage (3.7 million) of what the NES sold (61.9 million). You are in complete denial, my not-so-clever friend.

2. You're telling me you are not biased against Nintendo despite denying their historically documented role in the revival of the console gaming industry, dismissing the NES as a toy and "not a gaming console", and claiming most of the SNES's library are copies? After all this, you expect me to believe you are not biased against Nintendo? Sure, whatever. As for Atari, they may not have been solely responsible for the crash, with Coleco and Mattel also playing their parts, but Atari were the leading player behind it. And I don't know what IGN article you're referring to, because I get my information from actual 80s/90s published sources, not from recent online articles. And most of those 80s/90s articles also blame Atari, even going as far as calling it the "Atari crash". You act like Atari was still alive and well at the time, as if their bankruptcy in 1984 never happened. Once again, you are in denial.

3. Not only do you lack any knowledge on the video game industry at all, but your reading comprehension is also extremely poor, despite me spelling it out to you: I did not say there are more Pac-Man clones than Mario clones, but that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 borrow far more heavily from Pac-Man than most of the 16-bit platformers do from Super Mario Bros. The only thing the 16-bit platformers have in common with SMB is the side-scrolling perspective, but otherwise they all play differently, have different gameplay mechanics and physics, different worlds and level designs, and often belong to completely different genres. It's no different to how most Atari 2600 games used an overhead perspective like Pac-Man, or how most of today's games use a first-person perspective like Doom or third-person perspective like Mario 64. Besides, you were the one denying that most of the maze games on the Atari 2600 borrow anything from Pac-Man, despite the fact that it predated nearly all of them and was by far the most popular video game of that era. Your complete denial of the widely known facts amazes me. You sound like some conspiracy theorist who thinks all the widely known facts are lies and only your own conspiracies are true. It's getting ridiculous now.

Another48hours

>>>>>>>>

2. How can I be Biased against Nintendo? I already said I prefer the SNES over the Genesis, I played Coleco and Mattel systems more than the 2600 (Even though most of the games I liked was on the 2600 at the end.), and I never said most of the SNES was copies. I said that most of the platformers were. But apparently, despite me saying that 4054954 times, you're still too stupid to read it correctly. Also, you have know idea about gaming history. The NES was marketed as a toy, it was not advertised as what the Atari and Intel were advertised as. It aimed to expand the market instead of trying to convince the gamers of the past gen to get on their console. This is fact. Also, Atari was not the leading player. The impact of playing all games on all systems, putting preferred controllers on a competing console, and console clones released by idiots like Sears as well as the overwhelming amount of copies Coleco and Intell machines had all outweighed all the crap Atari did. While Atari, yes, did have a big impact. It is not over half the pie chart so many idiots keep claiming. It's still big, but putting MST F THE BLAME n them is pure stupidity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3. As mentioned above, you're the one without gaming knowledge as proven. I already stated the same thing back to you you keep saying I am not reading. It's just you can't understand your own stupid comment when spoken back to you. To make it similar for you, you're wrong and have no clue what you're talking about. Not in the slightest. I even laugh at they all play differently. Most really don't. They ether rename or replace items. Some give the illusion they do, and in the end it's the same thing. Also, most Atari games had a overhead because of Pac-man? Did you just take drugs when you said that? I better have had read that wrong.Also yes, I denied that most MAZE GAMES didn't borrow anything from PAc-man. It's even funnier you keep chaning from "MAZE" to "MAZE CHASE" back to "MAZE". Basically what you're telling me is all Maze games on the system took something from Pac-man. That's a load of BS. Heck, even if we just included games that had random lines in the middle of the screen like Pac-man you're wrong.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

4. So a game that predates other Maze games means the Maze games that came out after took thing from the game before it despite if they don't use anything from it? Also, even better, You're saying that without Pac-man, there would be no Adventure? I mean that is what you're saying, you do realize that right? See? You're theory is stupid. So please explain the widely know facts that are actually fact. I am waiting.

1. Where are the figures to back up your opinion that Activision was on the rise during the crash? Where are your figures to contradict the figures I've given about the console gaming industry's decline from $3 billion in 1982 down to $100 million in 1985? How can you explain away the fact that the console gaming industry's revenues declined by a whole 99%? You want sources? Here are dozens of 1980s news articles to confirm it. Nearly all of these sources confirm the industry's huge decline and Nintendo's principal role in its revival, with not a single one crediting Atari or Activision for its revival. If you can't even provide any numbers or figures to back up your arguments, then your opinions are worthless. You haven't even provided a single source to backup your arguments, despite the fact that you were the one begging for sources, making you sound like a hypocrite.

2. The Atari 2600 sold 20-30 million units in total, with at least 10 million of that by 1982. Its biggest rival, the ColecoVision, only sold 2-3 million units by the time it was discontinued in 1984. The ColecoVision and Intellivision combined only accounted for a fraction of the sales that the Atari 2600 had. Atari was completely dominating the 2nd-gen to the same extent that Nintendo dominated the 3rd-gen, at least in North America. Also, the Atari Games you are referring to is not the same thing as the original Atari which went bust in 1984.

3. How many maze games can you name on the Atari 2600 that were not maze chase games like Pac-Man? And don't give me that Adventure nonsense. Adventure is a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, not a maze game. But now that you mention it, the Atari 2600 also had plenty of Adventure clones, or games that copied its format. Also, many of the best-selling Atari 2600 games were usually Space Invaders clones, or games that copied its format. Much of the Atari 2600's top-selling games were usually imitating either Space Invaders, Pac-Man, or Adventure. How is the SNES's platformers anymore unoriginal than so many of those shooters on the Atari 2600 that clearly copied Space Invaders? At least the SNES platformers each have a different look and feel, whereas most of the Atari 2600 shooters look and feel more or less the same (i.e. like Space Invaders).

Conclusion: You're wrong, not to mention incredibly immature. If you were more confident in your own arguments, then you wouldn't feel the need to resort to petty, childish, personal attacks, but unfortunately, that's because your arguments are incredibly weak. I'm not even going to bother responding to you anymore unless you start providing some figures or numbers to backup your arguments. End of.

/\ Activision was on the rise shortly before the crash /\ The company was made up of ex-Atari members--the people that pioneered the industry...People that felt they weren't being treated fairly, pay wise. I don't remember the numbers but the company did something incredible in the first year. Still not enough though, as Atari and other console developers were saturating the industry with garbage product.

Oddly enough, those Activision members had a similar business sense in that "we make games and release them when they're done" mentality.

[QUOTE="Another48hours"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. I've already given figures to back up my argument. On the other hand, you have failed to provide even a single figure to back up your argument. Your argument is nothing more than a worthless opinion unless you can provide actual figures, which you have failed to do despite me requesting you to do so. The fact of the matter is that the console gaming industry declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985, the year that the NES released. This is a fact that you cannot deny. It was the NES that revived the console gaming industry, not the Atari 7800, which was released after the NES in 1986 and sold only a tiny percentage (3.7 million) of what the NES sold (61.9 million). You are in complete denial, my not-so-clever friend.

2. You're telling me you are not biased against Nintendo despite denying their historically documented role in the revival of the console gaming industry, dismissing the NES as a toy and "not a gaming console", and claiming most of the SNES's library are copies? After all this, you expect me to believe you are not biased against Nintendo? Sure, whatever. As for Atari, they may not have been solely responsible for the crash, with Coleco and Mattel also playing their parts, but Atari were the leading player behind it. And I don't know what IGN article you're referring to, because I get my information from actual 80s/90s published sources, not from recent online articles. And most of those 80s/90s articles also blame Atari, even going as far as calling it the "Atari crash". You act like Atari was still alive and well at the time, as if their bankruptcy in 1984 never happened. Once again, you are in denial.

3. Not only do you lack any knowledge on the video game industry at all, but your reading comprehension is also extremely poor, despite me spelling it out to you: I did not say there are more Pac-Man clones than Mario clones, but that most of the maze chase games on the Atari 2600 borrow far more heavily from Pac-Man than most of the 16-bit platformers do from Super Mario Bros. The only thing the 16-bit platformers have in common with SMB is the side-scrolling perspective, but otherwise they all play differently, have different gameplay mechanics and physics, different worlds and level designs, and often belong to completely different genres. It's no different to how most Atari 2600 games used an overhead perspective like Pac-Man, or how most of today's games use a first-person perspective like Doom or third-person perspective like Mario 64. Besides, you were the one denying that most of the maze games on the Atari 2600 borrow anything from Pac-Man, despite the fact that it predated nearly all of them and was by far the most popular video game of that era. Your complete denial of the widely known facts amazes me. You sound like some conspiracy theorist who thinks all the widely known facts are lies and only your own conspiracies are true. It's getting ridiculous now.

Jag85

>>>>>>>>

2. How can I be Biased against Nintendo? I already said I prefer the SNES over the Genesis, I played Coleco and Mattel systems more than the 2600 (Even though most of the games I liked was on the 2600 at the end.), and I never said most of the SNES was copies. I said that most of the platformers were. But apparently, despite me saying that 4054954 times, you're still too stupid to read it correctly. Also, you have know idea about gaming history. The NES was marketed as a toy, it was not advertised as what the Atari and Intel were advertised as. It aimed to expand the market instead of trying to convince the gamers of the past gen to get on their console. This is fact. Also, Atari was not the leading player. The impact of playing all games on all systems, putting preferred controllers on a competing console, and console clones released by idiots like Sears as well as the overwhelming amount of copies Coleco and Intell machines had all outweighed all the crap Atari did. While Atari, yes, did have a big impact. It is not over half the pie chart so many idiots keep claiming. It's still big, but putting MST F THE BLAME n them is pure stupidity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3. As mentioned above, you're the one without gaming knowledge as proven. I already stated the same thing back to you you keep saying I am not reading. It's just you can't understand your own stupid comment when spoken back to you. To make it similar for you, you're wrong and have no clue what you're talking about. Not in the slightest. I even laugh at they all play differently. Most really don't. They ether rename or replace items. Some give the illusion they do, and in the end it's the same thing. Also, most Atari games had a overhead because of Pac-man? Did you just take drugs when you said that? I better have had read that wrong.Also yes, I denied that most MAZE GAMES didn't borrow anything from PAc-man. It's even funnier you keep chaning from "MAZE" to "MAZE CHASE" back to "MAZE". Basically what you're telling me is all Maze games on the system took something from Pac-man. That's a load of BS. Heck, even if we just included games that had random lines in the middle of the screen like Pac-man you're wrong.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

4. So a game that predates other Maze games means the Maze games that came out after took thing from the game before it despite if they don't use anything from it? Also, even better, You're saying that without Pac-man, there would be no Adventure? I mean that is what you're saying, you do realize that right? See? You're theory is stupid. So please explain the widely know facts that are actually fact. I am waiting.

1. Where are the figures to back up your opinion that Activision was on the rise during the crash? Where are your figures to contradict the figures I've given about the console gaming industry's decline from $3 billion in 1982 down to $100 million in 1985? How can you explain away the fact that the console gaming industry's revenues declined by a whole 99%? You want sources? Here are dozens of 1980s news articles to confirm it. Nearly all of these sources confirm the industry's huge decline and Nintendo's principal role in its revival, with not a single one crediting Atari or Activision for its revival. If you can't even provide any numbers or figures to back up your arguments, then your opinions are worthless. You haven't even provided a single source to backup your arguments, despite the fact that you were the one begging for sources, making you sound like a hypocrite.

2. The Atari 2600 sold 20-30 million units in total, with at least 10 million of that by 1982. Its biggest rival, the ColecoVision, only sold 2-3 million units by the time it was discontinued in 1984. The ColecoVision and Intellivision combined only accounted for a fraction of the sales that the Atari 2600 had. Atari was completely dominating the 2nd-gen to the same extent that Nintendo dominated the 3rd-gen, at least in North America. Also, the Atari Games you are referring to is not the same thing as the original Atari which went bust in 1984.

3. How many maze games can you name on the Atari 2600 that were not maze chase games like Pac-Man? And don't give me that Adventure nonsense. Adventure is a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, not a maze game. But now that you mention it, the Atari 2600 also had plenty of Adventure clones, or games that copied its format. Also, many of the best-selling Atari 2600 games were usually Space Invaders clones, or games that copied its format. Much of the Atari 2600's top-selling games were usually imitating either Space Invaders, Pac-Man, or Adventure. How is the SNES's platformers anymore unoriginal than so many of those shooters on the Atari 2600 that clearly copied Space Invaders? At least the SNES platformers each have a different look and feel, whereas most of the Atari 2600 shooters look and feel more or less the same (i.e. like Space Invaders).

Conclusion: You're wrong, not to mention incredibly immature. If you were more confident in your own arguments, then you wouldn't feel the need to resort to petty, childish, personal attacks, but unfortunately, that's because your arguments are incredibly weak. I'm not even going to bother responding to you anymore unless you start providing some figures or numbers to backup your arguments. End of.

2.Makes no difference. They had more games on the shelves that were crap. Selling more consoles has nothing to do with having 38430430493404 carts in one shelf. Also, I said the 7800 was already made and was supposed to be released in 83-84, bt did not release it till later (and still not bringing back the promised features because a certain 2 idiots were in charge and thought it didn't matter.) Funny enough, it was profitable anyway, although it would have done much better if certain people were not idiots.

3. I want you to list all MAZE CHASE GAMES on the 2600. Shouldn't be long as there really isn't that many. Remember you said MAZE CHASE. Go ahead, we can debunk this quickly. Also guess what, Adventure is a MAZE GAME. If you know what the word MAZE means, which you don't oddly. Also, were are your imaginary sales figures stating that Spaceinvader clones were the best selling games? See, that's a bunch f BS you shouted already. But do the list first, it shouldn't take long because there really isn't that many MAZE CHASE games.

Conclusion? In number 3 you made up 3 random claims, 2 which were just introduced out of thin air, and now you're using a desperation attempt to get out of it? Sad. I actualy stopped and used simple name calling, your going for all out insults. Did you realize that? No, also I am still waiting, you're not using a desperation attempt to get out of thing you just pulled out your azz. If you do that you might as well not come back to Gamespot. Especially when you pulled random stuff out your azz with no prof most of the damn conversation. Still waiting for this majority list of Maze Chase games..... and all the other clones you claimed. While showing no actual games that did...

F'ing wall of text.

/\ Activision was on the rise shortly before the crash /\ The company was made up of ex-Atari members--the people that pioneered the industry...People that felt they weren't being treated fairly, pay wise. I don't remember the numbers but the company did something incredible in the first year. Still not enough though, as Atari and other console developers were saturating the industry with garbage product.

Oddly enough, those Activision members had a similar business sense in that "we make games and release them when they're done" mentality.

Heirren

Sega Genesis is back in the lead! Why are you guys talking about Atari, this is a Nintendo/Sega topic!

Sega Genesis is back in the lead! Why are you guys talking about Atari, this is a Nintendo/Sega topic!

mahlasor

That's it, time to bring in the big guns:

vs.

vs.

Emerald_Warrior

Menacer, lol (men)acer. Menacer is like a assault rilfe, the Super Scope a bazooka. Which makes no sense to use a bazooka for games that involves bullets, not rpgs...

I'll give the nod to the SNES. It edges the Genesis out only by a hair, though, and only because it was the home of FFIV, FFVI, Super Mario World and ALttP.

It did lack Sonic, though, and had the uncool MK. :P

Sega Genesis is back in the lead! Why are you guys talking about Atari, this is a Nintendo/Sega topic!

mahlasor

I've come across maybe 40-60 amazing Genesis games, while I've discovered nearly a hundred on the SNES.

Both have well over a hundred (probably both well over two hundred) decent, fun titles well worth playing.

Nothing about the best Genesis games places them markedly above the best SNES games in my opinion, so quality versus quantity is an irrelevant consideration.

The SNES seems to me slightly more capable hardware, which seems fair given it was released a couple years after the Genesis. That said, games like Lightning Force, Contra Hard Corps, Ranger X, Gunstar Heroes and Vectorman, as well as the modern retro release Pier Solar, are every bit as impressive as anything on the SNES.

[QUOTE="mahlasor"]

rilpas

Voter fraud! I kind of thought the same thing. If I was to vote on something, I would comment on why I voted what I voted for, I would of read everything beforehand.

Menacer, lol (men)acer. Menacer is like a assault rilfe, the Super Scope a bazooka. Which makes no sense to use a bazooka for games that involves bullets, not rpgs...

mahlasor

But what is an accessory without "killer-apps"?

:P

I am officially emailing Peta!:P

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. Where are the figures to back up your opinion that Activision was on the rise during the crash? Where are your figures to contradict the figures I've given about the console gaming industry's decline from $3 billion in 1982 down to $100 million in 1985? How can you explain away the fact that the console gaming industry's revenues declined by a whole 99%? You want sources? Here are dozens of 1980s news articles to confirm it. Nearly all of these sources confirm the industry's huge decline and Nintendo's principal role in its revival, with not a single one crediting Atari or Activision for its revival. If you can't even provide any numbers or figures to back up your arguments, then your opinions are worthless. You haven't even provided a single source to backup your arguments, despite the fact that you were the one begging for sources, making you sound like a hypocrite.

2. The Atari 2600 sold 20-30 million units in total, with at least 10 million of that by 1982. Its biggest rival, the ColecoVision, only sold 2-3 million units by the time it was discontinued in 1984. The ColecoVision and Intellivision combined only accounted for a fraction of the sales that the Atari 2600 had. Atari was completely dominating the 2nd-gen to the same extent that Nintendo dominated the 3rd-gen, at least in North America. Also, the Atari Games you are referring to is not the same thing as the original Atari which went bust in 1984.

3. How many maze games can you name on the Atari 2600 that were not maze chase games like Pac-Man? And don't give me that Adventure nonsense. Adventure is a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, not a maze game. But now that you mention it, the Atari 2600 also had plenty of Adventure clones, or games that copied its format. Also, many of the best-selling Atari 2600 games were usually Space Invaders clones, or games that copied its format. Much of the Atari 2600's top-selling games were usually imitating either Space Invaders, Pac-Man, or Adventure. How is the SNES's platformers anymore unoriginal than so many of those shooters on the Atari 2600 that clearly copied Space Invaders? At least the SNES platformers each have a different look and feel, whereas most of the Atari 2600 shooters look and feel more or less the same (i.e. like Space Invaders).

Conclusion: You're wrong, not to mention incredibly immature. If you were more confident in your own arguments, then you wouldn't feel the need to resort to petty, childish, personal attacks, but unfortunately, that's because your arguments are incredibly weak. I'm not even going to bother responding to you anymore unless you start providing some figures or numbers to backup your arguments. End of.

Another48hours

2.Makes no difference. They had more games on the shelves that were crap. Selling more consoles has nothing to do with having 38430430493404 carts in one shelf. Also, I said the 7800 was already made and was supposed to be released in 83-84, bt did not release it till later (and still not bringing back the promised features because a certain 2 idiots were in charge and thought it didn't matter.) Funny enough, it was profitable anyway, although it would have done much better if certain people were not idiots.

3. I want you to list all MAZE CHASE GAMES on the 2600. Shouldn't be long as there really isn't that many. Remember you said MAZE CHASE. Go ahead, we can debunk this quickly. Also guess what, Adventure is a MAZE GAME. If you know what the word MAZE means, which you don't oddly. Also, were are your imaginary sales figures stating that Spaceinvader clones were the best selling games? See, that's a bunch f BS you shouted already. But do the list first, it shouldn't take long because there really isn't that many MAZE CHASE games.

Conclusion? In number 3 you made up 3 random claims, 2 which were just introduced out of thin air, and now you're using a desperation attempt to get out of it? Sad. I actualy stopped and used simple name calling, your going for all out insults. Did you realize that? No, also I am still waiting, you're not using a desperation attempt to get out of thing you just pulled out your azz. If you do that you might as well not come back to Gamespot. Especially when you pulled random stuff out your azz with no prof most of the damn conversation. Still waiting for this majority list of Maze Chase games..... and all the other clones you claimed. While showing no actual games that did...

1. I've already given more than enough proof that the console gaming industry declined from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985 (a huge 97% decline). You've got a lot of nerve to dismiss all those mountains of evidence as BS. The only BS I see here are your worthless opinions that have absolutely zero evidence to support them. Besides, where's your evidence that Activision was doing just fine during the crash? That's obviously because it's a lie, and you know it. On the contary, there's plenty of evidence that Activision were not doing fine during this period. Just because they didn't go brankrupt like Atari, that doesn't mean they wasn't in decline. Once again, you're wrong, plain and simple.

2. Wait, you admit that the Atari 2600 had more "crap" games, but deny most of these were clones/copies of any kind? You're just contradicting yourself again. As a rule of thumb, if a game is rubbish, it's often because it's too formulaic and lacks originality. There's a reason why the Atari 2600 was plagued with bad games, and that's obviously because they were cheap clones/copies of popular games.

3. Nice try at twisting the argument. You were the one who claimed the Atari 2600's maze games owe nothing to Pac-Man. Therefore, I asked you to name these maze games that are nothing like Pac-Man, which you have still failed to do. The only example you could name is Adventure, a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, which is about as ridiculous as calling Zelda a maze game. That's obviously because most of the Atari 2600's maze games are clones/variations of the Pac-Man formula (or maze chase games as they're often called), and you know it. As for the Atari 2600's top-selling games, it's very well known many of them were Space Invaders clones, or inspired by it, including the likes of Asteroids, Missile Command, Demon Attack, Atlantis, Cosmic Ark, Megamania, and River Raid. The only one that changes the formula somewhat is Asteroids, but the rest look and feel just like Space Invaders.

Conclusion: You're complete and utter failure to support any of your arguments with any actual evidence, not even any numbers or sources, only goes to show that you are the one that's getting desperate here. I have mountains of sources and figures to back up my arguments, but you have none, and that's obviously because your arguments are just opinionated nonsense. I gave you one last chance before to start showing some evidence, but you have failed to show any evidence once again, therefore I don't see any reason to continue responding to your arguments anymore.

[QUOTE="Another48hours"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

1. Where are the figures to back up your opinion that Activision was on the rise during the crash? Where are your figures to contradict the figures I've given about the console gaming industry's decline from $3 billion in 1982 down to $100 million in 1985? How can you explain away the fact that the console gaming industry's revenues declined by a whole 99%? You want sources? Here are dozens of 1980s news articles to confirm it. Nearly all of these sources confirm the industry's huge decline and Nintendo's principal role in its revival, with not a single one crediting Atari or Activision for its revival. If you can't even provide any numbers or figures to back up your arguments, then your opinions are worthless. You haven't even provided a single source to backup your arguments, despite the fact that you were the one begging for sources, making you sound like a hypocrite.

2. The Atari 2600 sold 20-30 million units in total, with at least 10 million of that by 1982. Its biggest rival, the ColecoVision, only sold 2-3 million units by the time it was discontinued in 1984. The ColecoVision and Intellivision combined only accounted for a fraction of the sales that the Atari 2600 had. Atari was completely dominating the 2nd-gen to the same extent that Nintendo dominated the 3rd-gen, at least in North America. Also, the Atari Games you are referring to is not the same thing as the original Atari which went bust in 1984.

3. How many maze games can you name on the Atari 2600 that were not maze chase games like Pac-Man? And don't give me that Adventure nonsense. Adventure is a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, not a maze game. But now that you mention it, the Atari 2600 also had plenty of Adventure clones, or games that copied its format. Also, many of the best-selling Atari 2600 games were usually Space Invaders clones, or games that copied its format. Much of the Atari 2600's top-selling games were usually imitating either Space Invaders, Pac-Man, or Adventure. How is the SNES's platformers anymore unoriginal than so many of those shooters on the Atari 2600 that clearly copied Space Invaders? At least the SNES platformers each have a different look and feel, whereas most of the Atari 2600 shooters look and feel more or less the same (i.e. like Space Invaders).

Conclusion: You're wrong, not to mention incredibly immature. If you were more confident in your own arguments, then you wouldn't feel the need to resort to petty, childish, personal attacks, but unfortunately, that's because your arguments are incredibly weak. I'm not even going to bother responding to you anymore unless you start providing some figures or numbers to backup your arguments. End of.

Jag85

2.Makes no difference. They had more games on the shelves that were crap. Selling more consoles has nothing to do with having 38430430493404 carts in one shelf. Also, I said the 7800 was already made and was supposed to be released in 83-84, bt did not release it till later (and still not bringing back the promised features because a certain 2 idiots were in charge and thought it didn't matter.) Funny enough, it was profitable anyway, although it would have done much better if certain people were not idiots.

3. I want you to list all MAZE CHASE GAMES on the 2600. Shouldn't be long as there really isn't that many. Remember you said MAZE CHASE. Go ahead, we can debunk this quickly. Also guess what, Adventure is a MAZE GAME. If you know what the word MAZE means, which you don't oddly. Also, were are your imaginary sales figures stating that Spaceinvader clones were the best selling games? See, that's a bunch f BS you shouted already. But do the list first, it shouldn't take long because there really isn't that many MAZE CHASE games.

Conclusion? In number 3 you made up 3 random claims, 2 which were just introduced out of thin air, and now you're using a desperation attempt to get out of it? Sad. I actualy stopped and used simple name calling, your going for all out insults. Did you realize that? No, also I am still waiting, you're not using a desperation attempt to get out of thing you just pulled out your azz. If you do that you might as well not come back to Gamespot. Especially when you pulled random stuff out your azz with no prof most of the damn conversation. Still waiting for this majority list of Maze Chase games..... and all the other clones you claimed. While showing no actual games that did...

1. I've already given more than enough proof that the console gaming industry declined by a whole 99% from $3 billion in 1982 to $100 million in 1985. You've got a lot of nerve to dismiss all those mountains of evidence as BS. The only BS I see here are your worthless opinions that have absolutely zero evidence to support them. Besides, where's your evidence that Activision was doing just fine during the crash? That's obviously because it's a lie, and you know it. On the contary, there's plenty of evidence that Activision were not doing fine during this period. Just because they didn't go brankrupt like Atari, that doesn't mean they wasn't in decline. Once again, you're wrong, plain and simple.

2. I'm not even going to bother responding to such a pile of opinionated nonsense. I want evidence, not worthless opinions.

3. Nice try at twisting the argument. You were the one who claimed the Atari 2600's maze games owe nothing to Pac-Man. Therefore, I asked you to name these maze games that are nothing like Pac-Man, which you have still failed to do. The only example you could name is Adventure, a dungeon crawler / action-adventure, which is about as ridiculous as calling Zelda a maze game. That's obviously because most of the Atari 2600's maze games are clones/variations of the Pac-Man formula (or maze chase games as they're often called), and you know it. As for the Atari 2600's top-selling games, it's very well known many of them were Space Invaders clones, or inspired by it, including the likes of Asteroids, Missile Command, Demon Attack, Atlantis, Cosmic Ark, Megamania, and River Raid. The only one that changes the formula somewhat is Asteroids, but the rest look and feel just like Space Invaders.

Conclusion: You're complete and utter failure to support any of your arguments with any actual evidence, not even any numbers or sources, only goes to show that you are the one that's getting desperate here. I have mountains of sources and figures to back up my arguments, but you have none, and that's obviously because your arguments are just opinionated nonsense. I gave you one last chance before to start showing some evidence, but you have failed to show any evidence once again, therefore I don't see any reason to continue responding to your arguments anymore.

Speaking of Atari - I think their computers were much better than their consoles. The Atari 800 and ST were great machines for their time but their consoles not so much imo.

This thread derailed a little here by the way.

Speaking of Atari - I think their computers were much better than their consoles. The Atari 800 and ST were great machines for their time but their consoles not so much imo.

This thread derailed a little here by the way.

nameless12345

Have you seen their Laptop(s)? I have this baby right here:

Although I have a slightly different looking one.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Speaking of Atari - I think their computers were much better than their consoles. The Atari 800 and ST were great machines for their time but their consoles not so much imo.

This thread derailed a little here by the way.

Another48hours

Have you seen their Laptop(s)? I have this baby right here:

Although I have a slightly different looking one.

Nah, never saw those. I've heard they used their older computer tech for their newer consoles. The XEGS was basically a Atari 800 computer in console form or so I heard.