Should Spiritual Content Be Considered By The ESRB?

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Euaggelistes

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#1 Euaggelistes
Member since 2009 • 1826 Posts

As a christian who plays video games I sure would like to know if there are strong spiritual themes contained within a game. Does anyone else take notice of these kinds of elements?

There have been a number of games which I have passed on as a result of spiritual content (Okami and Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume being two examples). I find it somewhat baffling that a game like Mario Party DS is reported to contain "Comic Mischief" but spiritual content (even occult or demonic elements) go unnoticed.

I do not have an idea for how these things should affect the rating of a game, but it would be nice if they were mentioned on the back of the box.

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Blackguard7666

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#2 Blackguard7666
Member since 2009 • 37 Posts

As a christian who plays video games I sure would like to know if there are strong spiritual themes contained within a game. Does anyone else take notice of these kinds of elements?

There have been a number of games which I have passed on as a result of spiritual content (Okami and Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume being two examples). I find it somewhat baffling that a game like Mario Party DS is reported to contain "Comic Mischief" but spiritual content (even occult or demonic elements) go unnoticed.

I do not have an idea for how these things should affect the rating of a game, but it would be nice if they were mentioned on the back of the box.

Euaggelistes
Absolutely, they should consider this. They separate the Church and State, they consider even a nude butt viable for censorship or an "M" rating, and violence/gore. Why? Not everyone wants to play a game filled with content that can be offending, or that contains material that their kids don't want to be exposed to in a game or film that they don't agree with. Same with religion. I wouldn't want to play a game where God or Satan was speaking to me, or I was fighting my way through it in the name of God, etc. If Religion is going to be a major part of a game, there should be a warning in small print somewhere. Should say something like: Contains strong religious content. Just my thoughts. EDIT: One thing I over looked: One thing I have also noticed is that Christians make a big deal out of Demons, ghosts and even evil entities being in games, but no one really says anything when the "good" religion is in a game.
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btaylor2404

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#3 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
Rating, no not unless it's overly offensive to one or more religions. I do think that "religious themes" or something of the sort should be labeled. May even get more buyers?
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GAMECAMILLER

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#4 GAMECAMILLER
Member since 2005 • 4994 Posts
It's something the ESRB could concider, but now thinking back to it, I wonder why it's not happened (including spiritual themes in the descriptions box on the back).
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OneWingedAngeI

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#5 OneWingedAngeI
Member since 2003 • 9448 Posts
my guess would be too much work for too small a group. if enough people cared about the spiritual content more would be complaining, and then they might take steps to include those ratings. im guessing the demand is not high enough.
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deactivated-5df4e79c309ad

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#6 deactivated-5df4e79c309ad
Member since 2005 • 6045 Posts
There is a lot of occult, demonic or pagan themes in a lot of RPGs. That's something every gamer should keep in mind.
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rb2610

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#7 rb2610
Member since 2007 • 3325 Posts

We need less stupid reasons for ESRB ratings not more:evil: :x:evil: ffs they rate games for having 'crude humor', it's just ridiculous.

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k_smoove

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#8 k_smoove
Member since 2006 • 11954 Posts

There is a lot of occult, demonic or pagan themes in a lot of RPGs. That's something every gamer should keep in mind. Jemdude
Why should I keep that in mind?

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juradai

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#9 juradai
Member since 2003 • 2783 Posts

I think more often times than not you already know if a game has a heavy emphasis on a particular religion or spiritual theme. Usually the synopsis on the back of the game case clues you on the premise of a game's world and it's religious influences, if there are any.

Take a game like Devil Summoner. Right off the bat you know that it has something to with demons and summoning them. And then you have a game such as The Bible Game and you know instantly that it is directed towards a specific audience.

With that in mind, I really don't see a need to take up a place on the game case to indicate if there are spiritual influences or religious tones(good or bad) in the game to let people know what they are getting into.

Worse case scenario, people can see reviews of the game in question if they have such a big concern of it.

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_glatisant_

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#10 _glatisant_
Member since 2008 • 1060 Posts

Why should it matter? I doubt anyone has a conversion after playing a videogame.

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_glatisant_

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#11 _glatisant_
Member since 2008 • 1060 Posts

There is a lot of occult, demonic or pagan themes in a lot of RPGs. That's something every gamer should keep in mind. Jemdude

I honestly couldn't care less. I mean the entire universe these games take place in is fictional to some degree.

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AtomicTangerine

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#12 AtomicTangerine
Member since 2005 • 4413 Posts

I am incapable of being offended, so I can't say I care really. However, I still don't understand why that should even effect the ratings at all. So the game presents philosophical and religious themes you aren't comfortable with? Where do we stop?

Like way back when the internet was young, I stumbled across a website thatreviewed games from a Christian standpoint. Basically, tons of games I wouldn't care if toddlers played were said to be too offensive to be played by anyone. Anything with Dungeons and Dragons was evil, for example. Heck, anythingthat referred to magic being real was evil, since the Bible tellsus so.

The thing about the ESRB is that not everybody is Christian. Just becuase some people don't feel comfortable with Zelda referring to gods that aren't real doesn't mean it should get an M rating.

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LordAndrew

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#13 LordAndrew
Member since 2005 • 7355 Posts

We need less stupid reasons for ESRB ratings not more:evil: :x:evil: ffs they rate games for having 'crude humor', it's just ridiculous.

rb2610

It's stuff parents (and even people purchasing for themselves) may want to know. The ESRB is not controlling what you buy or what companies make; they're just informing potential customers. And this is something that I think potential customers should know about. The Megami Tensei series is one rife with religious and mythological references and even includes prominent religious figures, and could easily offend some religious types. But there's not even a single mention of that in the ESRB rating descriptor for those games.

The thing about the ESRB is that not everybody is Christian. Just becuase some people don't feel comfortable with Zelda referring to gods that aren't real doesn't mean it should get an M rating.

AtomicTangerine

I don't think anyone was suggesting that those things affect the actual rating; just that the descriptor point out that such things are in the game.

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juradai

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#14 juradai
Member since 2003 • 2783 Posts

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

The thing about the ESRB is that not everybody is Christian. Just becuase some people don't feel comfortable with Zelda referring to gods that aren't real doesn't mean it should get an M rating.

LordAndrew


I don't think anyone was suggesting that those things affect the actual rating; just that the descriptor point out that such things are in the game.



Actually, it is suggesting those view points to some degree because where do you draw the line? I suppose it could be drawn with this general statement on the box:
This game may offend or possibly not coincide with your religious or spiritual views. Religious or spiritual leader advisory is suggested.

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AtomicTangerine

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#15 AtomicTangerine
Member since 2005 • 4413 Posts

[QUOTE="LordAndrew"][QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

The thing about the ESRB is that not everybody is Christian. Just becuase some people don't feel comfortable with Zelda referring to gods that aren't real doesn't mean it should get an M rating.

juradai


I don't think anyone was suggesting that those things affect the actual rating; just that the descriptor point out that such things are in the game.



Actually, it is suggesting those view points to some degree because where do you draw the line? I suppose it could be drawn with this general statement on the box:
This game may offend or possibly not coincide with your religious or spiritual views. Religious or spiritual leader advisory is suggested.

Yes, and if everybody felt entitled to that level of pandering,that phrasewould be on EVERY VIDEO GAME BOX!

Seriously, there are resources out there for you. I'm just assuming the OP is Christian for this, and I apolgize if you aren't. For example, here is a review of the new Magic: The Gathering. This website reviews games and always mentions content that could offend you or make you uncomfortable. http://www.ccgr.org/reviews-mainmenu-31/14-console/5052-m

Or you could even listen to nuts like this, but then you wouldn't be here.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-video-games.html

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amoremono1

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#16 amoremono1
Member since 2009 • 386 Posts

It's stuff parents (and even people purchasing for themselves) may want to know. The ESRB is not controlling what you buy or what companies make; they're just informing potential customers. And this is something that I think potential customers should know about. The Megami Tensei series is one rife with religious and mythological references and even includes prominent religious figures, and could easily offend some religious types. But there's not even a single mention of that in the ESRB rating descriptor for those games.

LordAndrew

In response to the original thread and this reply, I think the responsibility for properly researching what media you choose as appropriate for you and your children lies squarely on your shoulders. Why should it be up to the ESRB to do that for you?? In this age of internet and readily-accessible communication, you have all the resources you need to coordinate with others who think like you and determine what is okay for you or not. Dragging the ESRB into it just implies that somehow this religious content you speak of is bad or wrong, and it really could lead to bad results if some chowderheads in the corporate office of some large retailer decides that nothing with this rating goes in their stores.

Just because you dont like it doesnt mean that the rest of the world has to work extra-hard to sheild you (or you kids; theyre yours, afterall) from it. Thats your perogative.

By the way, what was so offensive about Okami that it would warrant a "religious" or any other kind of warning label like you speak of?? The others, I can see where youre coming from to a degree, but Okami???

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k_smoove

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#17 k_smoove
Member since 2006 • 11954 Posts

The ultra-religious are not even likely to play games in the first place, so I'm not sure this is really such an important matter. Plus, some themes that might offend one group would be totally acceptable by other groups. You can't cater to just one group, and trying to make sure nobody is offended is simply not worth it.

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juradai

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#18 juradai
Member since 2003 • 2783 Posts

[QUOTE="juradai"]

[QUOTE="LordAndrew"]
I don't think anyone was suggesting that those things affect the actual rating; just that the descriptor point out that such things are in the game.AtomicTangerine



Actually, it is suggesting those view points to some degree because where do you draw the line? I suppose it could be drawn with this general statement on the box:
This game may offend or possibly not coincide with your religious or spiritual views. Religious or spiritual leader advisory is suggested.

Yes, and if everybody felt entitled to that level of pandering,that phrasewould be on EVERY VIDEO GAME BOX!

Seriously, there are resources out there for you. I'm just assuming the OP is Christian for this, and I apolgize if you aren't. For example, here is a review of the new Magic: The Gathering. This website reviews games and always mentions content that could offend you or make you uncomfortable. http://www.ccgr.org/reviews-mainmenu-31/14-console/5052-m

Or you could even listen to nuts like this, but then you wouldn't be here.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-video-games.html

Are you addressing this to me or Andrew?

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AtomicTangerine

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#19 AtomicTangerine
Member since 2005 • 4413 Posts

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

[QUOTE="juradai"]

Actually, it is suggesting those view points to some degree because where do you draw the line? I suppose it could be drawn with this general statement on the box:
This game may offend or possibly not coincide with your religious or spiritual views. Religious or spiritual leader advisory is suggested.

juradai

Yes, and if everybody felt entitled to that level of pandering,that phrasewould be on EVERY VIDEO GAME BOX!

Seriously, there are resources out there for you. I'm just assuming the OP is Christian for this, and I apolgize if you aren't. For example, here is a review of the new Magic: The Gathering. This website reviews games and always mentions content that could offend you or make you uncomfortable. http://www.ccgr.org/reviews-mainmenu-31/14-console/5052-m

Or you could even listen to nuts like this, but then you wouldn't be here.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-video-games.html

Are you addressing this to me or Andrew?

Just the first sentence was directed towards you dude. Sorry for the confusion, I should have clarified! :P

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juradai

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#20 juradai
Member since 2003 • 2783 Posts

Just the first sentence was directed towards you dude. Sorry for the confusion, I should have clarified! :P

AtomicTangerine

Ahh okay. Well then that was the exact point I was trying to make. ;) I didn't know if I explained my thought enough and decided to leave it hanging with sarcasm. Not sure if that was completely delivered though but the absurdity of having a statment such as the one I spoke about above on one video game case would lead eaxtly to that.... a message such as that on all game cases.

You also just proved my point that there are other resources out there for people to educate themselves about the spiritual and religious stance of a video game they are looking to purchase.

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LordAndrew

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#21 LordAndrew
Member since 2005 • 7355 Posts

In response to the original thread and this reply, I think the responsibility for properly researching what media you choose as appropriate for you and your children lies squarely on your shoulders. Why should it be up to the ESRB to do that for you?? In this age of internet and readily-accessible communication, you have all the resources you need to coordinate with others who think like you and determine what is okay for you or not. Dragging the ESRB into it just implies that somehow this religious content you speak of is bad or wrong, and it really could lead to bad results if some chowderheads in the corporate office of some large retailer decides that nothing with this rating goes in their stores.

Just because you dont like it doesnt mean that the rest of the world has to work extra-hard to sheild you (or you kids; theyre yours, afterall) from it. Thats your perogative.

By the way, what was so offensive about Okami that it would warrant a "religious" or any other kind of warning label like you speak of?? The others, I can see where youre coming from to a degree, but Okami???

amoremono1

It's the ESRB's job to inform, not make decisions for people. That why they were created in the first place, and without that they have no purpose.

But Okami? Yeah, I agree with you there. There are certainly god and goddesses in the game, but it's not overly religious and not a game that would ever even occur to me when thinking about games with religious content.

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Legolas_Katarn

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#22 Legolas_Katarn
Member since 2003 • 15556 Posts
If it just informs people, I guess so. It should in no way effect the games rating (E, T, or M), it's dumb enough that America rates almost all of the SMT games M (with the exception being Devil Survivor).
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amoremono1

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#23 amoremono1
Member since 2009 • 386 Posts

It's the ESRB's job to inform, not make decisions for people. That why they were created in the first place, and without that they have no purpose.

But Okami? Yeah, I agree with you there. There are certainly god and goddesses in the game, but it's not overly religious and not a game that would ever even occur to me when thinking about games with religious content.

LordAndrew

Officially, yes, the ESRB's job ends at informing. However, also officially speaking, rating by the ESRB is voluntary. When was the last time you saw a game not rated? Big retailers refuse to carry titles not judged by the ESRB, as well as titles given certain ratings by the Board, making the implications of the ratings dished out by them go well beyond just informing. There is huge pressure not just to get rated, but to make sure your game's rating does not keep it off the shelves. And still, my point stands. The ESRB's point is to warn of "bad" content not appropriate for children. By including such themes as vague as "religious content" under the scope of the ESRB, it is inherently implied that such religious content is "bad". That is fine for Christians/Buddhists/Muslims/Pastafarians etc., but they should have their own committees to decide what is right for their own set of beleifs, rather than take the horrendously wrong assumption that everyone's idea of "bad" is the same as theirs.

In fact, I think the ESRB is a horribly misguided attempt at "protecting" children while removing parental responsibility for the media their offspring consume. If it really was aimed at informing parents, it could be a publication, or a hotline, and would not need to be a symbol stamped on the front of each and every game. It has done little to keep kids from playing games with "offensive" content, and expanding its perview to include Christian-centric (Im assuming; perhaps the ratings would be Hindu-centric??) moral guides is extremely self-centered, self-serving, and un-friggin-American.

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Skylock00

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#24 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts

In fact, I think the ESRB is a horribly misguided attempt at "protecting" children while removing parental responsibility for the media their offspring consume. If it really was aimed at informing parents, it could be a publication, or a hotline, and would not need to be a symbol stamped on the front of each and every game.

amoremono1
Uh, it doesn't remove parental responsibility at all. It does the exact opposite, since the assertion can be made that when a chlid comes in possession of several games that are M-Rated, it's because of the parent's lack of responsibility for checking the ratings, or caring about them, and helps prevent the game industry from being held accountable for the actions of a parent.

Yes, there are stores that don't carry unrated games and such, but that will chance in time, either in how the games are rated, or how stores carry games.

Furthermore, one of the bigger purposes of the ESRB is to also feature every game it rates on its website with synopsis info about the game, made available for parents to research if they're interested about a game...much more immediately available and useful than some publication, IMHO.

As for the topic at hand, I basically agree with your point that including any sort of notes in the ESRB content information about religion content could be construed as 'bad,' since most everything else that is placed in there is deemed as 'negative' aspects of a game that effect its rating. If religious info is supposed to be noted, it shouldn't be by the ESRB, personally, or if it is, it shouldn't be something that comes into play regarding the game's rating at all...lastly, as you also said, who's religious basis would the info be based on?
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DarkGamer007

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#25 DarkGamer007
Member since 2008 • 6033 Posts

Why should it matter? I doubt anyone has a conversion after playing a videogame.

_glatisant_

I think it will become relavent and it will mater after some religious fanatic crys how he feels insulted that a game potrayed his religion in a certian way.

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StaticPenguin

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#26 StaticPenguin
Member since 2004 • 3433 Posts

Honestly? No. Most games that touch on religion usually make up their own deities. If you feel a fake religion in a video game is offensive, I apologize but you're just being silly. Other games hardly ever touch on the subject of religion. Those that do, never portray a religion in a negative light.

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#27 psyball
Member since 2003 • 752 Posts

Honestly? No. Most games that touch on religion usually make up their own deities. If you feel a fake religion in a video game is offensive, I apologize but you're just being silly. Other games hardly ever touch on the subject of religion. Those that do, never portray a religion in a negative light.

Raikoh_

Silent hill somewhat contradicts what your saying, although never directly, the games have constant overarching christian themes woven into the idea of the cult in silent hill, especialy number 3, with that whole birth of god thing. Its possible that a christian gamer might be insulted by silent hill if only even slightly.

By the way this is a great topic, its not often I see fresh discusion ideas in this forum.

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#28 Angry_Beaver
Member since 2003 • 4884 Posts

[QUOTE="Raikoh_"]

Honestly? No. Most games that touch on religion usually make up their own deities. If you feel a fake religion in a video game is offensive, I apologize but you're just being silly. Other games hardly ever touch on the subject of religion. Those that do, never portray a religion in a negative light.

psyball

Silent hill somewhat contradicts what your saying, although never directly, the games have constant overarching christian themes woven into the idea of the cult in silent hill, especialy number 3, with that whole birth of god thing. Its possible that a christian gamer might be insulted by silent hill if only even slightly.

By the way this is a great topic, its not often I see fresh discusion ideas in this forum.

Let's not forget Final Fantasy X, and probably many other JRPGs.

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viewtiful26

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#29 viewtiful26
Member since 2005 • 2842 Posts

[QUOTE="psyball"]

[QUOTE="Raikoh_"]

Honestly? No. Most games that touch on religion usually make up their own deities. If you feel a fake religion in a video game is offensive, I apologize but you're just being silly. Other games hardly ever touch on the subject of religion. Those that do, never portray a religion in a negative light.

Angry_Beaver

Silent hill somewhat contradicts what your saying, although never directly, the games have constant overarching christian themes woven into the idea of the cult in silent hill, especialy number 3, with that whole birth of god thing. Its possible that a christian gamer might be insulted by silent hill if only even slightly.

By the way this is a great topic, its not often I see fresh discusion ideas in this forum.

Let's not forget Final Fantasy X, and probably many other JRPGs.

Yes, I do think the TC brings a valid point. For example, the MPAA may do this with movies...for example: Exorcist: The Beginning (2004) R strong violence and gore, disturbing images and rituals, and for language including some sexual dialogue. I suppose occult things in games would be called "Disturbing Imagery" or something to that effect.
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#30 NBSRDan
Member since 2009 • 1320 Posts
As long as the ESRB is still looking for individual words in their arbitrary list, making note of something actually meaningful would be a step in the right direction.
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Euaggelistes

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#31 Euaggelistes
Member since 2009 • 1826 Posts

By the way, what was so offensive about Okami that it would warrant a "religious" or any other kind of warning label like you speak of?? The others, I can see where youre coming from to a degree, but Okami???

amoremono1

This is the review I read of Okami which was the deciding factor in my not purchasing the game. I tend to check movies and video games at that site. The review of Okami suggests strong spiritual themes and demonic content.

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TriangleHard

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#32 TriangleHard
Member since 2005 • 9097 Posts

Religious theme is matter of who it might offend.

That's not ESRB's job.

ESRB's job is to figure out for which age group the game is suitable for. It's not their job to find out who it will offend.

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Hegna1

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#33 Hegna1
Member since 2007 • 6118 Posts
It would be interesting, though it's kind of hard due to the variety of religions and what each religion would see as wrong. It would probably bump up a good number of games.
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Blackguard7666

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#34 Blackguard7666
Member since 2009 • 37 Posts
I have studied all of the major Religions..mainly Satanism and Christianity for personal reasons. MSRB is not there to control but to inform of content. If someone like myself buys a game that revolves around realistic enough Christianity, I will toss it. Should go the same way for anyone who is offended by Demons and Hell themes. Thing about it is: Most Demonic themes in games are fictitious. Christianity however, often have realistic themes; which I'd like to know about. I like having the box adorned with screenshots, gameplay info, and such. However, if they are going to inform me on other "offensive" stuff like dirty humor, use of booze, sexual references, and gore and Demons, then I'd like to be aware of any references to any religion. Everyone religious has their Master, as I do mine. I don't like my religion depicted in false ways or even insulting ways. If you play a game and don't agree with the theme, it can be seen as being pushed on the player. It's no different than gore, violence, etc. There was a huge uproar about Doom 3 and Devil Summoner having Demonic themes....mainly fictional. Then you have games (can't remember the names off the bat) that have God like themes, which no one made any kind of say against. Christians have a gathering, no one really notices or cares. Church of Satan has a meeting and we wind up in the damn news. Bottom line is, religion should be in games with a warning and should be fictional. It's degrading to other religions if the game depicts one being weaker or lesser than the other. I play Blackguards, assassins, Warlocks 98% of the time, so I don't feel comfortable fighting for the "light", or being the good guy, a lot. Why in Oblivion, most of my chars are in the Dark Brotherhood. One char, an Orc fighter is the "hero". But there is no religion tied to that. I wouldn't push my religion on anyone, or want a game with that theme without a warning. For we don't evangelize. Bottomeline is: most "parents" (if that's what you want to call them anymore) don't have a clue or care what they are buying for their kids. Whatever shuts them up, really. Then they wonder why their kids are saying real Demons names outloud or mocking Christ, and know the name "Anton LaVey". Should be not a censor, but a warning and rating set, at least.
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muthsera666

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#35 muthsera666
Member since 2005 • 13271 Posts
No. Anyone who passes on a game because it features a religion different from his or her own has serious issues. Should we not read books from other cultures because they don't believe what we believe? Why is the Japanese religion of Shinto (spirits residing in objects) any less valid than Christianity in the West (Jewish zombie)? I was Christian for a while, but the church I attended stifled my cultural exposure, and I'm glad I quit. Now, I can enjoy looking into other cultures and ways of interacting with the world without the judgemental nature of the Church telling me that something is wrong because it is different.
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Euaggelistes

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#36 Euaggelistes
Member since 2009 • 1826 Posts

No. Anyone who passes on a game because it features a religion different from his or her own has serious issues. Should we not read books from other cultures because they don't believe what we believe? Why is the Japanese religion of Shinto (spirits residing in objects) any less valid than Christianity in the West (Jewish zombie)? I was Christian for a while, but the church I attended stifled my cultural exposure, and I'm glad I quit. Now, I can enjoy looking into other cultures and ways of interacting with the world without the judgemental nature of the Church telling me that something is wrong because it is different.muthsera666

I do not want to go too far off topic, but to answer your question, one would be valid and the other not if one were true and the other were not. For example (this is not an attempt to proselytize rather an attempt to show how one religious understanding can invalidate another):

Jesus claims to be God. That claim is either true or false. If it is true than any religious belief which held that it was false would be invalid. As God Jesus claims that there are no other Gods. If this is true than any religious belief which professed the existence of other gods would be invalid.

The question should not be what one believes but rather what is true.

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Angry_Beaver

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#37 Angry_Beaver
Member since 2003 • 4884 Posts

[QUOTE="muthsera666"]No. Anyone who passes on a game because it features a religion different from his or her own has serious issues. Should we not read books from other cultures because they don't believe what we believe? Why is the Japanese religion of Shinto (spirits residing in objects) any less valid than Christianity in the West (Jewish zombie)? I was Christian for a while, but the church I attended stifled my cultural exposure, and I'm glad I quit. Now, I can enjoy looking into other cultures and ways of interacting with the world without the judgemental nature of the Church telling me that something is wrong because it is different.Euaggelistes

I do not want to go too far off topic, but to answer your question, one would be valid and the other not if one were true and the other were not. For example (this is not an attempt to proselytize rather an attempt to show how one religious understanding can invalidate another):

Jesus claims to be God. That claim is either true or false. If it is true than any religious belief which held that it was false would be invalid. As God Jesus claims that there are no other Gods. If this is true than any religious belief which professed the existence of other gods would be invalid.

The question should not be what one believes but rather what is true.

And what is the best way, in the real world, to determine that something is probably true? By ruling out the alternatives. For this we use science (and historical methods). Unfortunately, it can't tell us one iota about one-off events that defy the established behavior of things. This leaves every religion and every belief system that includes "miracles" high and dry, with regard to sufficient evidence to justify belief in the system. Furthermore, knowing what we do about conscious beings, it makes no sense to think that there could be a mind without some sort of brain or similar structure. We also know enough to safely infer that many things in many belief systems are false, including the Genesis creation stories (there are two) and the story of the Noachian flood.

The first point above is exactly why there is no real difference between creating a religion for use in a game and depicting a real one in a game. As such, if the ESRB had some descriptor for religious content, for it to be fair, it would need to be slapped on the box of even games that had religions created specifically to be included in them (such as in Final Fantasy X), since people could always adopt that religion in real life... and there would be no way to tell if the real-world one were any more true than the one from the game.

I think this is ludicrous. If the ESRB were forced to do this, where is the justification for them not doing it in every other case where there are "supernatural" entities in games, such as the benign Luigi's Mansion? Why wouldn't they also need to do it even in every case where a metaphysical view were presented in the game? Or would it only count if the term "god" (note: not "God" or "Christian/Jewish/Muslim god") were used, and if so, why? This is a very slippery slope, and it could result in an extra ESRB notification on so many games that it would just be insane. Why not just tolerate the fact that the game takes place in a mostly fictitious universe? Also, exposure to these different "supernatural"-inclusive game universes is pretty much just like living in the religously pluralistic world that we live in. If you want notification due to religious content, do you ask people what their belief system is before talking to them? Or will you not talk about belief systems with anyone who's not of your own?

What about religous people who have no problem with not having this notification? There are probably entire religions full of people who wouldn't/don't mind. Is it ok for the ESRB to cater to some over all the rest?

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Archangel3371

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#38 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 43998 Posts

No I really don't think that is necessary at all. If you have one zombie or hundreds in a game in a comical fashion or not then that must be classified because it will surely offend some religious sectors. It would spiral into a neverending circle of trying to classify every potential area of religious minutia whether it be a zombie, a ghost, a cow, etc. in any game.

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AtomicTangerine

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#39 AtomicTangerine
Member since 2005 • 4413 Posts

Okay, I just wanna ask one thing while we are talking about this, and I don't mean this to be confrontational or anything like that. This is a genuine question!

What makes Doom bad for a Christian to play? Sure, there are demons and stuff, but they are presented as evil and your goal is to take them out. Why is it objectionable for a Christian to play a game where you take on the forces of Hell? Cause really, isn't that a good thing to kill a demon?

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muthsera666

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#40 muthsera666
Member since 2005 • 13271 Posts

[QUOTE="muthsera666"]No. Anyone who passes on a game because it features a religion different from his or her own has serious issues. Should we not read books from other cultures because they don't believe what we believe? Why is the Japanese religion of Shinto (spirits residing in objects) any less valid than Christianity in the West (Jewish zombie)? I was Christian for a while, but the church I attended stifled my cultural exposure, and I'm glad I quit. Now, I can enjoy looking into other cultures and ways of interacting with the world without the judgemental nature of the Church telling me that something is wrong because it is different.Euaggelistes

I do not want to go too far off topic, but to answer your question, one would be valid and the other not if one were true and the other were not. For example (this is not an attempt to proselytize rather an attempt to show how one religious understanding can invalidate another):

Jesus claims to be God. That claim is either true or false. If it is true than any religious belief which held that it was false would be invalid. As God Jesus claims that there are no other Gods. If this is true than any religious belief which professed the existence of other gods would be invalid.

The question should not be what one believes but rather what is true.

If the goal is the truth, wouldn't exposure to more avenues of thought provide more insight to what could be the truth? If someone was Christian and never played a game that involved Shinto, what if Shinto was the "right" religion? According to Christianity, even those who have never heard of Christ go to Hell if they don't follow him. Therefore, wouldn't it be best to obtain as much exposure to other methods of thought? Heck, the fictitious religions in games have as much chance to be legitimate as any of the other made-up religions.
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Skylock00

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#41 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts
Now folks, this might be talking about ESRB and the rating of 'spiritual' content...but please don't let this turn into a discussion on religion as a whole.
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#42 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts
You should refer to the numerous Christian websites that tell you what you are 'allowed' to play.