Religious gamer receives refund for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite

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#1 Posted by JML897 (33126 posts) -

Can someone please tell this doofus that he was playing a video game and he was not actually getting baptized in real life

Thanks

#2 Posted by JML897 (33126 posts) -

"As baptism of the Holy spirit is at the center of Christianity--of which I am a devout believer--I am basically being forced to make a choice between committing extreme blasphemy by my actions in choosing to accept this 'choice' or forced to quit playing the game before it even really starts," Malmberg said.

LOL this guy is even more full of shit than I first thought. What did he think would happen after he got past the baptism scene, exactly? Did he think the game is full of holding hands and hugging each other?

"Forcefully being baptized in a video game is against my religion"
"Yeah I bought this game that's all about going around and shooting people, what's your point?"

#3 Posted by HipHopBeats (2914 posts) -

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

#4 Posted by Game_Guy567 (3427 posts) -

I thought this was a joke when I first heard it...

#5 Posted by KHAndAnime (14051 posts) -
Well..that's just stupid.
#6 Posted by lozengez (509 posts) -

Which company didn't "stand up to self-entitlement"? Valve?

If so, big deal, $60. If I were in Valve's situation I'd do the same.  Their option was getting into some philosophical argument with a consumer or just shrugging and giving the dude his money back.

 

#7 Posted by Pedro (21144 posts) -

I was baffled by the responses I read in this post but, then I remembered I was on the internet. :|

#8 Posted by X_CAPCOM_X (6315 posts) -

Religious people think they have special privileges because of things like this... we need to stop giving fundies an exemption from reality.

#9 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

So this guy has a problem with baptism, but no issue with shooting people in the face? Ok...

#10 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72953 posts) -
i think this is pretty stupid, do some research first, it's been clear that this game has a religious tone
#11 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18621 posts) -
Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Much obliged
#12 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

It's a video game -- a work of fiction. I mean, the whole game is full of liberal bullshlt, but it's still a great game. I just ignore all the religious stereotyping and attacks on turn of the century America -- it's really not that hard to do. Take it for what it is and enjoy it: a very well made, enjoyable work of fiction that shouldn't be taken seriously one way or the other. 

Now, if he wanted his money back because there still isn't any real penalty for dying, I'd say he had a case. :P 

#13 Posted by dvader654 (44751 posts) -
Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Much obligedBlack_Knight_00
This happens in the first 5 minutes of the game.
#14 Posted by JML897 (33126 posts) -
Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Much obligedBlack_Knight_00
This is barely a spoiler. This scene happens immediately in the beginning of the game.
#15 Posted by HipHopBeats (2914 posts) -

Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Much obligedBlack_Knight_00

If you're that sensitive to spoilers stay off the net, especially gaming forums. This is not even a story spoiler and takes place during the 1st 10 minutes of the game.

#16 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18621 posts) -
[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Much obligeddvader654
This happens in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Oh, well, that's better
#17 Posted by jsmoke03 (12983 posts) -

normally i would give kudos to this (i give kudos for people standing up to their beliefs) but i really dont know what scene this is but im guessing someone got a little too sensitive over something that wasnt that big of a deal.

if following religious beliefs was part of the case, then no christian/catholic would ever play anything violent. but i really have to see this clip that someone got offended with if it was really insulting.

#18 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16843 posts) -

Lol. Funny

#19 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -
in all the editorializing after infinite, i think what's gotten lost is the central theme of hypocrisy. at least somebody is bringing it back into the discussion.
#20 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

It's hard to figure how anyone who read the reviews of the game or watched the video reviews could not know about the pseudo-religiosity in Bioshock and then be shocked by it.  In any case, if they were genuinely offended by the content based on their religious beliefs then I suppose it's just good customer service to give them a refund.  On the other hand, it could just be a clever way to play the game for free.

#21 Posted by DenaliStrat1020 (18 posts) -

As a Christian, I found the violence to be much more offensive than all the religious symbolism. Still, fantastic game. If that's how he felt though, good on Valve to give his money back, no matter how ridiculous other people may see it. I find it baffling that so many Christian gamers have more problems with sex and language and something that challenges their beliefs than chopping off some dude's neck in Call of Duty. Sheesh.

#22 Posted by Bigboi500 (30306 posts) -

lol I think I might try that so I don't have to spend $60 for a ten hour game.

#23 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

He should in no way be given a refund, and no company is obligated to return money to a customer because someone's personal beliefs do not align with what they're buying. That's ridiculous. Of course if he didn't get one he'd probably throw up a hissy fit on Change.org and get a million+ sigs. MirkoS77

That's a bit harsh.  It's good customer service to give a refund to a dissatisfied customer, the details of the reason are less important.  In this particular case, however, it's hard to figure why he's playing such video games at all, but I generally tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the customer unless they're being blantly abusive, so I can't fault Steam for issuing the refund.

#24 Posted by MirkoS77 (7777 posts) -
Jesus Chri.... Goddam.... For Heaven's Sa....

*sigh*

It's a videogame. I'm really, really trying not to be judgemental here, but man. How can people live like this and not live under a rock? Does this guy even go outside? I can understand adhering to one's beliefs, but c'mon. I think someone should assure him that he won't be insulting the creator of the universe by playing a virtual character that gets virtually baptized. He'll be forgiven. God's a cool guy, he loves gaming.
#25 Posted by MirkoS77 (7777 posts) -

It's hard to figure how anyone who read the reviews of the game or watched the video reviews could not know about the pseudo-religiosity in Bioshock and then be shocked by it.  In any case, if they were genuinely offended by the content based on their religious beliefs then I suppose it's just good customer service to give them a refund.  On the other hand, it could just be a clever way to play the game for free.

capaho
He should in no way be given a refund, and no company is obligated to return money to a customer because someone's personal beliefs do not align with what they're buying. That's ridiculous. Of course if he didn't get one he'd probably throw up a hissy fit on Change.org and get a million+ sigs.
#26 Posted by usernamenoway (35 posts) -

Yeah. It's easy to jump on someone for being a Christian (I am not, but more power to you if you are a spiirtual person).

Whenever I have a knee-jerk reaction to criticizing a Christian I always pause to ask myself, "Would I do the same to a Hindu, Buddist, Jew or Muslim?" and the answer is always "No".

People have the right to hold whatever beliefs they want, however ridiculous they may seem.  If Valve chose to honor that, even if for convenience, than good for them.

lozengez

Very astute point....good way to put it....kinda changes my outlook on it tbh

#27 Posted by Jacanuk (4975 posts) -

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

HipHopBeats
What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.
#28 Posted by Blueresident87 (5340 posts) -

So this guy has a problem with baptism, but no issue with shooting people in the face? Ok...

Vari3ty

Of course the violence doesn't bother him, religious history is full of ridiculous amounts of violence.

This really is such a joke, but I'd give him the $60 back too, just to get him to shut up already.

#29 Posted by Blueresident87 (5340 posts) -

[QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

Jacanuk

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If the game conflicts with his views then he should turn it off and not play it. The refund is irrelevant, this guy is a hypocrite by citing religion as the reason he can't (but really won't) play it.

Taking a stand for your views is great, having them taken seriously is even better. But this is just pathetic, and it falls into the 'get over it' category.

#30 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18414 posts) -
The guy is an idiot.. he has a problem with the character in the game taking a baptism but no issue at all with murdering a heap of people.
#31 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

Jacanuk

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

I think it's a prime example of religious people picking and choosing, which goes on a lot these days. If you don't like the baptism, that's fine, but you're totally cool with mass amounts of murder? 

More power to Valve for respecting that guy's beliefs, though.

#32 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -
The guy is an idiot.. he has a problem with the character in the game taking a baptism but no issue at all with murdering a heap of people.Rattlesnake_8
you haven't heard of the commandment "thou shalt not accept video game baptism"?
#33 Posted by JML897 (33126 posts) -

He might have had a problem with the violence in the game, but apparently he never got to that point since he never made it past the baptism. Accusing him of being a hypocrite is pretty speculative, about the most one can say is that he probably should have researched the game better before buying it.MrGeezer

I have trouble believing he paid (presumably) $50-60 for Bioshock Infinite without having a general idea of the game and the violence in it. Even on the Steam page there's a "rated M" thing that says "Intense Violence".

#34 Posted by Jacanuk (4975 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

Blueresident87

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If the game conflicts with his views then he should turn it off and not play it. The refund is irrelevant, this guy is a hypocrite by citing religion as the reason he can't (but really won't) play it.

Taking a stand for your views is great, having them taken seriously is even better. But this is just pathetic, and it falls into the 'get over it' category.

What you just said makes no sense? The whole key in this is the refund, should Valve give a refund because of someone's religious beliefs or any other reasonable refund request. Also for you his views might seem pathetic and ludicrous but try to expand your horizon by accepting that for him and others their religion is a very strong influence in their life, and when it doesn't say on the box or in any review "You cannot get around the baptism ceremony". Valve as a serious company should of course give the guy a refund, good customer service doesn't cost them anything.
#35 Posted by Jacanuk (4975 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

IndianaPwns39

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

I think it's a prime example of religious people picking and choosing, which goes on a lot these days. If you don't like the baptism, that's fine, but you're totally cool with mass amounts of murder? 

More power to Valve for respecting that guy's beliefs, though.

Well, i cant say that i agree with his views but ya as you said more power to Valve for respecting his views and giving a refund, its not like its going to cost them anything, s

#36 Posted by Legolas_Katarn (15592 posts) -

What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?

You can go around killing innocent people. ....The damn kids are still invincible though.

#38 Posted by usernamenoway (35 posts) -

I dont think he was offended at all....he either didnt like the game or it was too hard for him....so he made up some shit to get his money back.....it makes too little sense to kill ppl and be pissed about a virtual baptism

#39 Posted by lozengez (509 posts) -

Yeah. It's easy to jump on someone for being a Christian (I am not, but more power to you if you are a spiirtual person).

Whenever I have a knee-jerk reaction to criticizing a Christian I always pause to ask myself, "Would I do the same to a Hindu, Buddist, Jew or Muslim?" and the answer is always "No".

People have the right to hold whatever beliefs they want, however ridiculous they may seem.  If Valve chose to honor that, even if for convenience, than good for them.

#40 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

Yeah. It's easy to jump on someone for being a Christian (I am not, but more power to you if you are a spiirtual person).

Whenever I have a knee-jerk reaction to criticizing a Christian I always pause to ask myself, "Would I do the same to a Hindu, Buddist, Jew or Muslim?" and the answer is always "No".

People have the right to hold whatever beliefs they want, however ridiculous they may seem.  If Valve chose to honor that, even if for convenience, than good for them.

lozengez
if a buddhist bought a shooter and then returned it because of a baptism scene, i'd laugh my ass off.
#41 Posted by MrGeezer (56665 posts) -

Can someone please tell this doofus that he was playing a video game and he was not actually getting baptized in real life

Thanks

JML897
And I hate this line of reasoning. I'm sure most reasonable people have a line that they've drawn in the sand. If I bought a game and then found out halfway through that finishing it requires my character to rape people or lynch blacks, I'd have a problem with that. You and I and most people might not have a problem with a video game baptism, but that doesn't mean that people should be okay with it just because it's not real.
#42 Posted by MrGeezer (56665 posts) -

I think it's a prime example of religious people picking and choosing, which goes on a lot these days. If you don't like the baptism, that's fine, but you're totally cool with mass amounts of murder? 

More power to Valve for respecting that guy's beliefs, though.

IndianaPwns39
Just playing devil's advocate here, but "murder" needs to be taken in context. Shooting enemies in one game might not be as offensive as the violence in something like Manhunt. It's entirely reasonable for someone to be okay with the violence in one game and not another. And while I haven't played Bioshock Infinite yet, I'm told that the Baptism sequence happens literally right at the beginning of the game. He might have had a problem with the violence in the game, but apparently he never got to that point since he never made it past the baptism. Accusing him of being a hypocrite is pretty speculative, about the most one can say is that he probably should have researched the game better before buying it.
#43 Posted by MrGeezer (56665 posts) -

I have trouble believing he paid (presumably) $50-60 for Bioshock Infinite without having a general idea of the game and the violence in it. Even on the Steam page there's a "rated M" thing that says "Intense Violence".

JML897
What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?
#44 Posted by usernamenoway (35 posts) -

What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?Legolas_Katarn

You can go around killing innocent people. ....The damn kids are still invincible though.

I hope that was a joke......you aren't you saying that you wish you could kill kids in the game are you....b/c i would probably take a game back if you could do that....
#45 Posted by MrGeezer (56665 posts) -

What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?Legolas_Katarn

You can go around killing innocent people. ....The damn kids are still invincible though.

Okay. News to me though. I personally assumed that it'd be more like Bioshock and Bioshock 2, where you're just killing people who are trying to gun you down. It's not exactly all that implausible for someone who buys the game to not know that.
#46 Posted by Ish_basic (4040 posts) -

[QUOTE="Legolas_Katarn"]

What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?usernamenoway

You can go around killing innocent people. ....The damn kids are still invincible though.

I hope that was a joke......you aren't you saying that you wish you could kill kids in the game are you....b/c i would probably take a game back if you could do that....

I don't know...I think a game that allowed that sort of thing to happen without in any way encouraging it could be a great learning experience. Think about if you fired off a rocket launcher at a crowd of enemies, and then walked over there afterwards and saw a child-size corpse....that'd be pretty crushing. I guarantee you that most of us would play the game differently from that point on - more controlled, more worried about what we weren't seeing. It might just give us a greater appreciation of what soldiers and police officers go through everyday. Spec Ops: the Line tried this a bit, and I gotta say, as far as emotional experiences in gaming go, it was pretty effective.

#47 Posted by HipHopBeats (2914 posts) -

[QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

Jacanuk

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

Why even have a Mature rating on games at all? Should the fake Baptism be removed to appease all religious gamers? No religious gamer had a problem with having to sell your soul in order to successfully complete the Theives Guild in Skyrim. God Of War, Dark Souls praise the sun, and so on. If dude is that sensitive with religious beliefs, he shouldn't be playing any violent video games or watching any violent movies period. It's nothing more than self entitlement.

#48 Posted by Ish_basic (4040 posts) -

[QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

A religious, Christian gamer demanded and received a full refund from Valve for forced Baptism in Bioshock Infinite. He has no problem digitally murdering pixelized NPC's but a fake Baptism was apparently more than he could bear. When does the self entitlement stop and companies start standing their ground?

Jacanuk

What are you on about? are you really this shallow and limited that you cannot understand another persons view and be glad that his views are taken serious, despite how insane they may be from a company like Valve. I think it shows Valve as AAA company.

The problem is, it's not about religious views or respecting someone's belief. It's about hypocrisy and the notion that being offended entitles you to some sort of recompense. It doesn't. And Valve isn't being honorable or compassionate here - they're being smart. The sad state is that if Valve handled this in any other way than they did, they'd have an army of idiots knocking on their door tomorrow.

#49 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -
[QUOTE="Legolas_Katarn"]

What does "intense violence" even mean? Is the player running around slaughtering innocent people, or is he defending himself from bad guys?MrGeezer

You can go around killing innocent people. ....The damn kids are still invincible though.

Okay. News to me though. I personally assumed that it'd be more like Bioshock and Bioshock 2, where you're just killing people who are trying to gun you down. It's not exactly all that implausible for someone who buys the game to not know that.

i'd say that even if he came in expecting to shoot just the people that are shooting his character (that's how i played. you don't have to shoot innocent bystanders), it's an inherent part of the genre to make the act of shooting fun. maybe there are a handful of comparable games out there that intentionally make the shooting not fun, but the number would be so small that you could hardly expect that sort of treatment of violence when picking up a shooter. it's a significant draw for the game. yeah, people play the bioshock games for the story too, but the presence of shooting has always been prominent (i haven't played bioshock 2, but you'll forgive my leap of faith in assuming that there is a lot of shooting and it's not meant to be unenjoyable).

even if he was playing games with the treatment of violence, he could have also done so with the baptism. the player character (it's a character with a voice and backstory. he is not meant to be just a shell for the player. these components are made clear even before the baptism) doesn't see the priest and shout "hallelujah!" or anything. he grumbles to himself and begrudgingly lets the priest do his work for sake of getting into the city.

it just really seems like a situation where someone came into the experience looking to be "offended."

#50 Posted by MrGeezer (56665 posts) -

Why even have a Mature rating on games at all? Should the fake Baptism be removed to appease all religious gamers? No religious gamer had a problem with having to sell your soul in order to successfully complete the Theives Guild in Skyrim. God Of War, Dark Souls praise the sun, and so on. If dude is that sensitive with religious beliefs, he shouldn't be playing any violent video games or watching any violent movies period. It's nothing more than self entitlement.

HipHopBeats
Who said it should be removed? They simply gave one guy a refund. Didn't even cost them anything to do it. This is about as much of an outrage as a restaurant refunding someone's meal because he just didn't like it.