Playstation Vs. Nintendo 64 Vs. Sega Saturn Vs. 3DO Vs. Atari Jaguar! Consolewar

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#151 Posted by Domino_slayer (763 posts) -

Played them at cousin's and friend's houses. Virtual console, playing them on PC, and remakes. Just give me like 10 Saturn games that are worth playing. I'm trying to like the system.YoshiYogurt

  1. Panzer Dragoon Saga
  2. Panzer Dragoon Zwei
  3. Sega Rally
  4. Fighters Megamix
  5. Virtua Fighter 2
  6. Shining Force III
  7. Nights
  8. Virtual On
  9. Radiant Silvergun
  10. Burning Rangers

Would be good, high profile-ish games.

I like Exhumed, Hyper Duel, Shining the Holy Ark, Twinkle Star Sprites, Dark Saviour, Battle Garegga, Virtua Cop 2 as well.

There are also multiplats like Street Fighter Alpha 3, Resident Evil, Quake, Dead or Alive, Duke Nukem, Mega Man, Wipeout's etc

Honestly, there are a lot of good games on Saturn, I just don't agree that its somehow "obviously" better than N64, or more well-rounded.

Now, i'm not arguing that the Saturn is better than the N64, or vice versa. What i'm saying is that both are of equal quality, but both have different strenghts and different weaknesses.

The PS1 crushes both combined, either way.

Lucianu

Yup, this is exactly what I've been saying.

#152 Posted by YoshiYogurt (5987 posts) -
[QUOTE="YoshiYogurt"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

 

if you don't have an N64, how do you know any game you might list, or have listed is good or not?

Ive played or own quite a few of the games you mentioned before and found some to be pretty boring for my tastes

 

by the logic previously applied by you , the N64 must be crap.

Darkman2007
Played them at cousin's and friend's houses. Virtual console, playing them on PC, and remakes. Just give me like 10 Saturn games that are worth playing. I'm trying to like the system.

that depends on what you like , if I ask you for games for the N64, the minute you suggest stuff like Ocarina of Time , Banjo Kazooie, Smash Bros, DK64, etc, I will reply that those games bore me, which they do. and I own (or owned) these games. now that is fine, people have different tastes, but your claim that the Saturn is somehow crap is unfounded , and baseless, as you do not know the games on the system but sure, go ahead and have a look at my games list on GS , almost all of my games are there (save for a few very obscure games)

I see tons of multiplats, racers, fighters, and sports games. A few RPGs interest me, maybe a few others. Seems like the 360 of that day. Tons of multiplats and very few exclusives.
#153 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -
[QUOTE="YoshiYogurt"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="YoshiYogurt"] Played them at cousin's and friend's houses. Virtual console, playing them on PC, and remakes. Just give me like 10 Saturn games that are worth playing. I'm trying to like the system.

that depends on what you like , if I ask you for games for the N64, the minute you suggest stuff like Ocarina of Time , Banjo Kazooie, Smash Bros, DK64, etc, I will reply that those games bore me, which they do. and I own (or owned) these games. now that is fine, people have different tastes, but your claim that the Saturn is somehow crap is unfounded , and baseless, as you do not know the games on the system but sure, go ahead and have a look at my games list on GS , almost all of my games are there (save for a few very obscure games)

I see tons of multiplats, racers, fighters, and sports games. A few RPGs interest me, maybe a few others. Seems like the 360 of that day. Tons of multiplats and very few exclusives.

that depends what you mean by multiplats. some of those games are arcade ports, some are also on PS1 , but are better on the Saturn (stuff like the Capcom or SNK fighters) , multiplats aren't necessarily a bad thing. although you list gives me the idea you haven't bothered looking much , the Saturn wasn't known for its racing games, although there are some very good ones , like Sega Rally or Wipeout 2097
#154 Posted by Lucianu (9520 posts) -

  1. Panzer Dragoon Saga
  2. Panzer Dragoon Zwei
  3. Sega Rally
  4. Fighters Megamix
  5. Virtua Fighter 2
  6. Shining Force III
  7. Nights
  8. Virtual On
  9. Radiant Silvergun
  10. Burning Rangers

Domino_slayer

No way are those games even worth playing. There are other versions much better than the Saturn version of Virtual On like the Dreamcast, and 360 version.

Burning Rangers is incredibly clunky to control, with a painfully inducing crap of a framerate.

I'll pick the infinitely better, and much more unique Fighters Megamix (which also has a crap ton of SP content) over the bare bones, incredibly outdated - by 3, 4, 5 - Virtua Fighter 2. There's no need to have that in the list with Megamix, at all.

#155 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

Why even try? It's obvious he's just being a Nintendo fanboy and isn't gonna give the Saturn the time of day no matter what you say.

#156 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

  1. Panzer Dragoon Saga
  2. Panzer Dragoon Zwei
  3. Sega Rally
  4. Fighters Megamix
  5. Virtua Fighter 2
  6. Shining Force III
  7. Nights
  8. Virtual On
  9. Radiant Silvergun
  10. Burning Rangers

Lucianu

No way are those games even worth playing. There are other versions much better than the Saturn version of Virtual On like the Dreamcast, and 360 version.

Burning Rangers is incredibly clunky to control, with a painfully inducing crap of a framerate.

I'll pick the infinitely better, and much more unique Fighters Megamix (which also has a crap ton of SP content) over the bare bones, incredibly outdated - by 3, 4, 5 - Virtua Fighter 2. There's no need to have that in the list with Megamix, at all.

I think Burning Rangers controls just fine , more so with the 3D controller, or at least not any more clunky than most other 3D platformers in its day (and controls better than , say Croc ), frame rate isn't too bad either, about average.
#157 Posted by Lucianu (9520 posts) -

I think Burning Rangers controls just fine , more so with the 3D controller, or at least not any more clunky than most other 3D platformers in its day (and controls better than , say Croc ), frame rate isn't too bad either, about average.Darkman2007

I dunno about most 3D platformers, but from my own, fresh experience as a first time player of these 5th generation consoles @ 2011/2012.. Mario 64, Crash, Spyro have a infinitely better camera, controls, and framerate. I love these games. Oh man, the camera is horrific aswell in BR.. Jesus.

But, to each their own. I wish i could agree with you. The music and charm in BR is awesome.

#158 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]I think Burning Rangers controls just fine , more so with the 3D controller, or at least not any more clunky than most other 3D platformers in its day (and controls better than , say Croc ), frame rate isn't too bad either, about average.Lucianu

I dunno about most 3D platformers, but from my own, fresh experience as a first time player of these 5th generation consoles @ 2011/2012.. Mario 64, Crash, Spyro have a infinitely better camera, controls, and framerate. I love these games. Oh man, the camera is horrific aswell in BR.. Jesus.

But, to each their own. I wish i could agree with you. The music and charm in BR is awesome.

well , at least it didn't have tank controls like Tomb Raider , BR let you move around freely. also remember that in the case of Crash , it had a mostly fixed camera, BR had a camera you controlled. the worst thing for me were the graphical glitches, walls flickering, the game itself looks pretty amazing on the Saturn , but those glitches make it look messy at times (and I think its an engine issue, Nights also had alot of flicker) not to say I dislike Tomb Raider btw, its one of my favorite platformers of the time, I have 3 different versions of it. Im also worried by a serious lack of Bulk Slash on this thread (from what I can see) , very fun game.
#159 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
[QUOTE="YoshiYogurt"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="YoshiYogurt"] Played them at cousin's and friend's houses. Virtual console, playing them on PC, and remakes. Just give me like 10 Saturn games that are worth playing. I'm trying to like the system.

that depends on what you like , if I ask you for games for the N64, the minute you suggest stuff like Ocarina of Time , Banjo Kazooie, Smash Bros, DK64, etc, I will reply that those games bore me, which they do. and I own (or owned) these games. now that is fine, people have different tastes, but your claim that the Saturn is somehow crap is unfounded , and baseless, as you do not know the games on the system but sure, go ahead and have a look at my games list on GS , almost all of my games are there (save for a few very obscure games)

I see tons of multiplats, racers, fighters, and sports games. A few RPGs interest me, maybe a few others. Seems like the 360 of that day. Tons of multiplats and very few exclusives.

Well hello there Banjo.
#160 Posted by Domino_slayer (763 posts) -

No way are those games even worth playing. There are other versions much better than the Saturn version of Virtual On like the Dreamcast, and 360 version.Lucianu

Not sure about what they're like with the V-On controller, but I own DC and Saturn Virtual On games and quite frankly with the standard controller I thought Oratorio Tangram controlled like crap in comparison to Saturn Virtual On.

I thought Virtual On Saturn had really intuitive controls, OT's are just plain weird.

Burning Rangers is incredibly clunky to control, with a painfully inducing crap of a framerate.Lucianu

I agree with you, its also too short, but I find it fun to play unlike the Bug games, which are trash, and its at least an exclusive, unlike Croc, and Tomb Raider which are both superior on Playstation (I prefer BR to them anyway though simply because I like action games)

I'll pick the infinitely better, and much more unique Fighters Megamix (which also has a crap ton of SP content) over the bare bones, incredibly outdated - by 3, 4, 5 - Virtua Fighter 2.

There's no need to have that in the list with Megamix, at all.Lucianu

Virtua Fighter 2 is more technical than Fighters Megamix, its a very elegant game for its time, both are cool.

--------------------------------

As far as your list is concerned :D -

Shin Shinobi Den is cheap, outsourced crapola from infamous company Tose with horrible art design and embarassing FMV.

Guardian Heroes is an overrated clusterf#ck, the two player has constant slowdown, the RPG elements are underdeveloped, and the Vs multiplayer is an unbalanced mess. Even saying that I enjoy it, but it sure as hell wouldn't enter my top 10.

Shining the Holy Ark I considered putting in there, as I do actually like that game a lot, but its an RPG with barely any plot and the graphics haven't aged well so I felt that YY may well have been unimpressed by it.

#161 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

Why even try? It's obvious he's just being a Nintendo fanboy and isn't gonna give the Saturn the time of day no matter what you say.

Emerald_Warrior
#162 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Compared to the N64, the Saturn had a larger software library, more third-party support, and wider diverse selection of games...Domino_slayer

....The majority of which are Fighters and 2D scrolling Shmups.

  • Crude three-course racing games
  • Crappy 3D platformers
  • Crappy splitscreen support
  • SNES-era Action-Adventure games

What competes with the Zelda's and Soul Reaver? Nothing

What competes with Mario 64, Banjo's, Spyro's, Ape Escape? Nothing

What racers have >8 courses, Championship modes? Nothing, parts customisation? Nothing.

FPS Splitscreen deathmatch? Nothing.

Neither N64, nor Saturn have all genre's covered, only one that manages that is PS1 unfortunately.

Most of the high profile Saturn games came out prior to 1998, N64 didn't even start until 1997, and carried on till 2000, as such they have very different libraries, and very different strengths and weaknesses to each other, Saturn has more 2D emphasis, N64 has more 3D emphasis.

Saturn may have a bigger library, but it also has significantly more shovelware, putting shovelware on N64 was a losing proposition due to the expense or manufacturing cartridges.

I'm not arguing that Saturn doesn't have more ok to good games on it than N64, it most certainly does, I'm just arguing that Saturn's library isn't inherently more balanced than that of the N64. Quite frankly as a platformer and Racing game fan I find the Saturn extremely lacking.

And how do you know the "majority" are fighters and 2D shmups? I doubt you've looked through all 600 games and counted how many are fighters and shmups...

  • The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.
  • The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).
  • Not sure what you mean about the split-screen.
  • What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?

What on the N64 competes with the Street Fighter's, Virtua Fighter's, Fighters Megamix's, and DOA's? Nothing.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.

What competes with RPG's like the Lunar's, Shining's, Grandia, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon Saga, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with graphic adventure / visual novel games like Snatcher, Policenauts, Eve Burst Error, YU-NO, Machi, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.

#163 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Compared to the N64, the Saturn had a larger software library, more third-party support, and wider diverse selection of games...Jag85

....The majority of which are Fighters and 2D scrolling Shmups.

  • Crude three-course racing games
  • Crappy 3D platformers
  • Crappy splitscreen support
  • SNES-era Action-Adventure games

What competes with the Zelda's and Soul Reaver? Nothing

What competes with Mario 64, Banjo's, Spyro's, Ape Escape? Nothing

What racers have >8 courses, Championship modes? Nothing, parts customisation? Nothing.

FPS Splitscreen deathmatch? Nothing.

Neither N64, nor Saturn have all genre's covered, only one that manages that is PS1 unfortunately.

Most of the high profile Saturn games came out prior to 1998, N64 didn't even start until 1997, and carried on till 2000, as such they have very different libraries, and very different strengths and weaknesses to each other, Saturn has more 2D emphasis, N64 has more 3D emphasis.

Saturn may have a bigger library, but it also has significantly more shovelware, putting shovelware on N64 was a losing proposition due to the expense or manufacturing cartridges.

I'm not arguing that Saturn doesn't have more ok to good games on it than N64, it most certainly does, I'm just arguing that Saturn's library isn't inherently more balanced than that of the N64. Quite frankly as a platformer and Racing game fan I find the Saturn extremely lacking.

And how do you know the "majority" are fighters and 2D shmups? I doubt you've looked through all 600 games and counted how many are fighters and shmups...

  • The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.
  • The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).
  • Not sure what you mean about the split-screen.
  • What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?

What on the N64 competes with the Street Fighter's, Virtua Fighter's, Fighters Megamix's, and DOA's? Nothing.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.

What competes with RPG's like the Lunar's, Shining's, Grandia, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon Saga, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with graphic adventure / visual novel games like Snatcher, Policenauts, Eve Burst Error, YU-NO, Machi, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.

This is good, but to be fair the N64 did have fighters. It's still to bad Yoshi has yet to look at my varied list one page back.
#164 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

....The majority of which are Fighters and 2D scrolling Shmups.

  • Crude three-course racing games
  • Crappy 3D platformers
  • Crappy splitscreen support
  • SNES-era Action-Adventure games

What competes with the Zelda's and Soul Reaver? Nothing

What competes with Mario 64, Banjo's, Spyro's, Ape Escape? Nothing

What racers have >8 courses, Championship modes? Nothing, parts customisation? Nothing.

FPS Splitscreen deathmatch? Nothing.

Neither N64, nor Saturn have all genre's covered, only one that manages that is PS1 unfortunately.

Most of the high profile Saturn games came out prior to 1998, N64 didn't even start until 1997, and carried on till 2000, as such they have very different libraries, and very different strengths and weaknesses to each other, Saturn has more 2D emphasis, N64 has more 3D emphasis.

Saturn may have a bigger library, but it also has significantly more shovelware, putting shovelware on N64 was a losing proposition due to the expense or manufacturing cartridges.

I'm not arguing that Saturn doesn't have more ok to good games on it than N64, it most certainly does, I'm just arguing that Saturn's library isn't inherently more balanced than that of the N64. Quite frankly as a platformer and Racing game fan I find the Saturn extremely lacking.

Jakandsigz

And how do you know the "majority" are fighters and 2D shmups? I doubt you've looked through all 600 games and counted how many are fighters and shmups...

  • The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.
  • The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).
  • Not sure what you mean about the split-screen.
  • What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?

What on the N64 competes with the Street Fighter's, Virtua Fighter's, Fighters Megamix's, and DOA's? Nothing.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.

What competes with RPG's like the Lunar's, Shining's, Grandia, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon Saga, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with graphic adventure / visual novel games like Snatcher, Policenauts, Eve Burst Error, YU-NO, Machi, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.

This is good, but to be fair the N64 did have fighters. It's still to bad Yoshi has yet to look at my varied list one page back.

MK Trilogy, KI Gold and Smash Bros were good N64 fighters. Still, it doesn't quite compare to the Saturn's fighter library (which also had MK Trilogy, BTW).

#165 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

And how do you know the "majority" are fighters and 2D shmups? I doubt you've looked through all 600 games and counted how many are fighters and shmups...

  • The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.
  • The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).
  • Not sure what you mean about the split-screen.
  • What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?

What on the N64 competes with the Street Fighter's, Virtua Fighter's, Fighters Megamix's, and DOA's? Nothing.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.

What competes with RPG's like the Lunar's, Shining's, Grandia, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon Saga, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with graphic adventure / visual novel games like Snatcher, Policenauts, Eve Burst Error, YU-NO, Machi, etc.? Nothing.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.

Jag85

This is good, but to be fair the N64 did have fighters. It's still to bad Yoshi has yet to look at my varied list one page back.

MK Trilogy, KI Gold and Smash Bros were good N64 fighters. Still, it doesn't quite compare to the Saturn's fighter library (which also had MK Trilogy, BTW).

You forgot Fighters Destiny 1 and 2, the cult following of Clay fighter, and Flying Dragon. I think the N64 is still behind the Saturn in general for fighters but just right there next to it for 3D fighters.
#166 Posted by Domino_slayer (763 posts) -

Love the straw man argument Jag!

Point on the table was whether the Saturn had any genre weaknesses, you try to make it an argument about the N64 having weaknesses which absolutely no-one was disputing at any time, everyone knows that, its an easy to attack straw man point

The N64 having genre weaknesses doesn't make the Saturn's 3D platformer library any better.

The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.Jag85

Not really, there are barely 4 good arcade racers on the entire system worth playing and they all have low track counts and poor features, I think Sega Rally is the only one that even supports ghosts isn't it? no 4-player support, Daytona was buggy etc

Decent, maybe, and with a stand-out or two, but a strength? no way.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.Jag85

The obvious answers would be Star Fox and Sin and Punishment

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.Jag85

Micro Machines 64 supports 8 players.

Maybe Worms Armageddon? that would take ages though.

Saturn Bomberman supports 10 players BTW, I own it, you know how many times I've gotten a game of more than four people playing it since I bought it over 5 years ago? maybe about 3 or 4 times I'd guess.

10 players sounds good in theory, but in practice you can never get 10 fans of Bomberman in your house at the same time, the last time I got a match of 7 going it ended with two of my friends (who I'd had to cajole into playing in the 1st place) saying they didn't like the game much.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.Jag85

"Unique" is too vague, Pilotwings, Wetrix, and Space Station Silicon Valley are pretty unique.

What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?Jag85

1# This is exactly like saying "what's wrong with having racing games instead of RPGS?" ANSWER they're different and you might want to play one over the other, that's what variety is all about.

2# 2D action adventure games don't immerse you in the game's world quite as much as 3D games like Ocarina and Soul Reaver.

3# Personally I would always compare game's like Legend of Oasis to previous gen titles like Link to the Past, not Ocarina (heck Shining Wisdom even looks like a previous gen game).

The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).Jag85

Not sure if I go along with that either tbh. Most Saturn 2D platformers I found to be either mediocre, or very short.

Still, Silhoette Mirage and the Mega Man games were very cool.

I kind of wish SoA had merged the two Clockwork Knights into one game like they originally planned to do.

I'd say Saturn was alright for 2D/2.5D platformers, atrocious for 3D platformers

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.Jag85

Exactly, which is the point I was arguing, you were the one going on about how diverse the Saturn library is in comparison to N64.

MK Trilogy, KI Gold and Smash Bros were good N64 fighters. Still, it doesn't quite compare to the Saturn's fighter library (which also had MK Trilogy, BTW).Jag85

Rakuga Kids at 60hz is pretty fun too, it has charm, and the gameplay may not be anything new but is competent.

MK Trilogy is a bad port on N64, I would take MK 4 over it tbh.

But yeah, N64 is considerably worse than Saturn for all kinds of fighter.

#167 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

Love the straw man argument Jag!

Point on the table was whether the Saturn had any genre weaknesses, you try to make it an argument about the N64 having weaknesses which absolutely no-one was disputing at any time, everyone knows that, its an easy to attack straw man point

The N64 having genre weaknesses doesn't make the Saturn's 3D platformer library any better.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]The Saturn's strength lied in arcade racers, not sim racers or kart racers.Domino_slayer

Not really, there are barely 4 good arcade racers on the entire system worth playing and they all have low track counts and poor features, I think Sega Rally is the only one that even supports ghosts isn't it? no 4-player support, Daytona was buggy etc

Decent, maybe, and with a stand-out or two, but a strength? no way.

What competes with rail shooters like Virtua Cop and Panzer Dragoon or the 2D shmups? Nothing.Jag85

The obvious answers would be Star Fox and Sin and Punishment

What competes with 8-player multiplayer games like Saturn Bomberman? Nothing.Jag85

Micro Machines 64 supports 8 players.

Maybe Worms Armageddon? that would take ages though.

Saturn Bomberman supports 10 players BTW, I own it, you know how many times I've gotten a game of more than four people playing it since I bought it over 5 years ago? maybe about 3 or 4 times I'd guess.

10 players sounds good in theory, but in practice you can never get 10 fans of Bomberman in your house at the same time, the last time I got a match of 7 going it ended with two of my friends (who I'd had to cajole into playing in the 1st place) saying they didn't like the game much.

What competes with unique games like Nights or brawlers like Guardian Heroes? Nothing.Jag85

"Unique" is too vague, Pilotwings, Wetrix, and Space Station Silicon Valley are pretty unique.

What's wrong with 2D action-adventures?Jag85

1# This is exactly like saying "what's wrong with having racing games instead of RPGS?" ANSWER they're different and you might want to play one over the other, that's what variety is all about.

2# 2D action adventure games don't immerse you in the game's world quite as much as 3D games like Ocarina and Soul Reaver.

3# Personally I would always compare game's like Legend of Oasis to previous gen titles like Link to the Past, not Ocarina (heck Shining Wisdom even looks like a previous gen game).

The Saturn's strength lied in 2D platformers, not 3D platformers (besides Nights).Jag85

Not sure if I go along with that either tbh. Most Saturn 2D platformers I found to be either mediocre, or very short.

Still, Silhoette Mirage and the Mega Man games were very cool.

I kind of wish SoA had merged the two Clockwork Knights into one game like they originally planned to do.

I'd say Saturn was alright for 2D/2.5D platformers, atrocious for 3D platformers

Just as the N64 excelled in certain genres, the Saturn excelled in certain other genres.Jag85

Exactly, which is the point I was arguing, you were the one going on about how diverse the Saturn library is in comparison to N64.

MK Trilogy, KI Gold and Smash Bros were good N64 fighters. Still, it doesn't quite compare to the Saturn's fighter library (which also had MK Trilogy, BTW).Jag85

Rakuga Kids at 60hz is pretty fun too, it has charm, and the gameplay may not be anything new but is competent.

MK Trilogy is a bad port on N64, I would take MK 4 over it tbh.

But yeah, N64 is considerably worse than Saturn for all kinds of fighter.

To be fair, Sin and Punishment is Japan only on N64. To be fair, your #2 point about 2D games not immersing you is an opinion. To be fair, Flying Dragon, Fighters Destiny 1 and 2, Clay Fighter, KI, and Smash Bros for Fighters, so it's not as bad as people say. Of course, I am just being fair.
#168 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

Love the straw man argument Jag!

Point on the table was whether the Saturn had any genre weaknesses, you try to make it an argument about the N64 having weaknesses which absolutely no-one was disputing at any time, everyone knows that, its an easy to attack straw man point

Domino_slayer

That's funny, because you were the one who misquoted my post, taking it out of context, setting up a straw man in the first place (which I'll get down to later on).

Not really, there are barely 4 good arcade racers on the entire system worth playing and they all have low track counts and poor features, I think Sega Rally is the only one that even supports ghosts isn't it? no 4-player support, Daytona was buggy etc

Decent, maybe, and with a stand-out or two, but a strength? no way.Domino_slayer

Retro Gamer magazine ranked Sega Rally as the greatest racing game of all time (not that I agree with it or anything), yet it apparently just seems like a "crude" racer to you... I suppose arcade racers just aren't your thing? 

The obvious answers would be Star Fox and Sin and PunishmentDomino_slayer

But no answer for Virtua Cop or the 2D shmups?

Micro Machines 64 supports 8 players.

Maybe Worms Armageddon? that would take ages though.

Saturn Bomberman supports 10 players BTW, I own it, you know how many times I've gotten a game of more than four people playing it since I bought it over 5 years ago? maybe about 3 or 4 times I'd guess.

10 players sounds good in theory, but in practice you can never get 10 fans of Bomberman in your house at the same time, the last time I got a match of 7 going it ended with two of my friends (who I'd had to cajole into playing in the 1st place) saying they didn't like the game much.Domino_slayer

As much as a I loved the Worms games back in the days (and enjoyed the Micro Machines games to an extent), I never really considered them to be in the same league as Saturn Bomberman's multiplayer experience...

But I do see you're point about getting 10 players together for a game of Saturn Bomberman... that wasn't a problem for me when I was a teenager, but nowadays as an adult it does seem to be a bit more difficult to get 10 mates to play a game of Bomberman together.

"Unique" is too vague, Pilotwings, Wetrix, and Space Station Silicon Valley are pretty unique.Domino_slayer

Still no answer for the brawlers and hack & slash games like Guardian Heroes, Princess Crown, D&D Collection, etc.?

1# This is exactly like saying "what's wrong with having racing games instead of RPGS?" ANSWER they're different and you might want to play one over the other, that's what variety is all about.

2# 2D action adventure games don't immerse you in the game's world quite as much as 3D games like Ocarina and Soul Reaver.

3# Personally I would always compare game's like Legend of Oasis to previous gen titles like Link to the Past, not Ocarina (heck Shining Wisdom even looks like a previous gen game).Domino_slayer

Okay. So I suppose we can conclude the Saturn was lacking when it came to 3D action-adventures and the N64 was lacking when it came to 2D action-adventures?

Not sure if I go along with that either tbh. Most Saturn 2D platformers I found to be either mediocre, or very short.

Still, Silhoette Mirage and the Mega Man games were very cool.

I kind of wish SoA had merged the two Clockwork Knights into one game like they originally planned to do.

I'd say Saturn was alright for 2D/2.5D platformers, atrocious for 3D platformersDomino_slayer

In the same way the N64 was good for 3D platformers and bad for 2D platformers?

Exactly, which is the point I was arguing, you were the one going on about how diverse the Saturn library is in comparison to N64.Domino_slayer

And now to get to the main point. If you took offense at my comment about the Saturn having a more diverse library (even though that was clearly a response to a troll claiming the Saturn had a pathetic library altogether, a part you cut out from your quotation), then you could have just, you know, asked why I think that is? But instead you simply made an assumption, setting up a straw man, and just went ahead posting a list of things you dislike about the Saturn to shoot down that straw man...

Anyway, my point about the Saturn having a more diverse library is pretty easy to justify. Why? Because the Saturn focused on both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measure, whereas the N64 focused mainly on just 3D games at the expense of 2D games. Yes, the Saturn had serious deficiencies when it came to plenty of 3D genres, but the difference is that the N64 had serious deficiencies when it came to 2D gaming as a whole, let alone any specific genres. Despite having the weakest 3D library from the big three consoles of that time, the Saturn at least had lots of great 3D games to offer, but can you say the same for the N64 when it came to 2D games? The point is that the Saturn had plenty to offer when it came to both 2D and 3D, and that is why I said the Saturn has a more diverse library compared to the N64.

#169 Posted by Ricardomz (2329 posts) -

Playstation with the N64 following.

#170 Posted by Domino_slayer (763 posts) -

But no answer for Virtua Cop or the 2D shmups?

Still no answer for the brawlers and hack & slash games like Guardian Heroes, Princess Crown, D&D Collection, etc.?Jag85

Irrelevant

Nobody is arguing with you that the N64 is weak for some genre's

Nobody is saying the N64 has a more diverse library than Saturn

How is this relevant to the Saturn being weak for certain genre's?

Point on the table is whether both are weak for certain genres.

and we can play this game all day, Saturn has no respectable trick-based games that can hold their own against the PS1 and N64's Tony Hawk's games, Saturn has no multiplayer vehicular combat games that can hold their own against Vigilante 8, Twisted Metal, Battletanx: Global Assault, Rogue Trip etc

Retro Gamer magazine ranked Sega Rally as the greatest racing game of all time (not that I agree with it or anything), yet it apparently just seems like a "crude" racer to you... I suppose arcade racers just aren't your thingJag85

That's one game, one game does not make a system good for arcade racers.

and yes, its great, but by N64 and late PS1 standards it's crude, its too low on courses and features.

Retrogamer look at things from the perspective of the time, when it was released Sega Rally was the best home console racer available and was way ahead, by a year later other racers were catching up on it, a year after that they had caught up, by 2000 a racer with 3 main courses and a bonus course would've been slammed for lack of content.

Okay. So I suppose we can conclude the Saturn was lacking when it came to 3D action-adventures and the N64 was lacking when it came to 2D action-adventures?Jag85

N64 doesn't have many, Goemon's Great Adventure (2.5D) was no Symphony of the night, but was still very cool.

As much as a I loved the Worms games back in the days (and enjoyed the Micro Machines games to an extent), I never really considered them to be in the same league as Saturn Bomberman's multiplayer experience...Jag85

That's nice and all, but I never considered any Bomberman game to be as good as its Micro Machine contemporary.

I don't think any of my friends would take Bomberman over Micro Machines either, even the ones who like Bomberman.

In the same way the N64 was good for 3D platformers and bad for 2D platformers?Jag85

Not really, there's honestly not even one great 3D platformer on Saturn. Period.

Croc is ok, but has issues.

The Bugs I hate.

----------------------------------

As far as I'm concerned Mischief makers is legitimately great

Kirby 64, Disney's Tarzan, and Yoshi's Story are all OK.

Anyway, my point about the Saturn having a more diverse library is pretty easy to justify. Why? Because the Saturn focused on both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measureJag85

Eh?

As far as good games go -

For the entire 3rd person shooter genre Saturn has one buggy (though good) game, Burning Rangers, I guess Amok is half decent. As far as I'm concerned that's it

Saturn only has one 3D action Adventure game, Tomb Raider, an inferior multiplat, that's it.

For the entire 3D platformer genre it has one OK multiplatform game, Croc, that's it.

There are waay more 2D platformers.

The entire Racing genre is slim pickens as it is, there's certainly no more than 5 I would play today, 7 odd if I'm feeling generous.

Saturn has about 3 times the number of 2D fighters in comparison to 3D ones

Masses of block falling puzzle games

Masses of scrolling shmups.

The Saturn library is massively biased towards 2D

#171 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

Okay, instead of going around in circles, I'll just skip right to the end...

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Anyway, my point about the Saturn having a more diverse library is pretty easy to justify. Why? Because the Saturn focused on both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measureDomino_slayer

Eh?

As far as good games go -

For the entire 3rd person shooter genre Saturn has one buggy (though good) game, Burning Rangers, I guess Amok is half decent. As far as I'm concerned that's it

Saturn only has one 3D action Adventure game, Tomb Raider, an inferior multiplat, that's it.

For the entire 3D platformer genre it has one OK multiplatform game, Croc, that's it.

There are waay more 2D platformers.

The entire Racing genre is slim pickens as it is, there's certainly no more than 5 I would play today, 7 odd if I'm feeling generous.

Saturn has about 3 times the number of 2D fighters in comparison to 3D ones

Masses of block falling puzzle games

Masses of scrolling shmups.

The Saturn library is massively biased towards 2D

Firstly, I didn't say just "good" games, but stated the Saturn has a more diverse library overall (whether great, good, mediocre, or bad).

Secondly, the Saturn was not biased in either direction, but focused on offering both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measure. It just so happens that much of its 3D library has been forgotten (probably because many of them were multi-plats with better versions available elsewhere) and it's better remembered for its 2D library.

And thirdly, like I said before, the N64 was indeed mostly superior to the Saturn when it came to 3D gaming (except for 3D fighters, of course), but at least the Saturn had a lot more to offer for 3D gaming than the N64 did for 2D gaming, and that is what gives the Saturn a more diverse overall library.

#172 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

Okay, instead of going around in circles, I'll just skip right to the end...

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Anyway, my point about the Saturn having a more diverse library is pretty easy to justify. Why? Because the Saturn focused on both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measureJag85

Eh?

As far as good games go -

For the entire 3rd person shooter genre Saturn has one buggy (though good) game, Burning Rangers, I guess Amok is half decent. As far as I'm concerned that's it

Saturn only has one 3D action Adventure game, Tomb Raider, an inferior multiplat, that's it.

For the entire 3D platformer genre it has one OK multiplatform game, Croc, that's it.

There are waay more 2D platformers.

The entire Racing genre is slim pickens as it is, there's certainly no more than 5 I would play today, 7 odd if I'm feeling generous.

Saturn has about 3 times the number of 2D fighters in comparison to 3D ones

Masses of block falling puzzle games

Masses of scrolling shmups.

The Saturn library is massively biased towards 2D

Firstly, I didn't say just "good" games, but stated the Saturn has a more diverse library overall (whether great, good, mediocre, or bad).

Secondly, the Saturn was not biased in either direction, but focused on offering both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measure. It just so happens that much of its 3D library has been forgotten (probably because many of them were multi-plats with better versions available elsewhere) and it's better remembered for its 2D library.

And thirdly, like I said before, the N64 was indeed mostly superior to the Saturn when it came to 3D gaming (except for 3D fighters, of course), but at least the Saturn had a lot more to offer for 3D gaming than the N64 did for 2D gaming, and that is what gives the Saturn a more diverse overall library.

Diversity has nothing to do with how many 2D and 3D games it has, it has to do with different types of games. Saturn consists of: Action Action-Adventure Adventure Driving Arcade Racing RPG Sports Strategy Flight Sims Tank Sim Beat Em Up Fighters Platformers FPS TPS Static Light Gun Jrpgs N64 consists of: Action Action-Adventure Adventure Driving Arcade Racing Racing Sims RPG Sports Strategy Flight Sims Beat Em Up Fighters Platformers FPS TPS Static Farming Sim Jrpgs Wrpg The N64 has 1 more genre than Saturn, and has more diversity. That said, Saturn has more games.
#173 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

Okay, instead of going around in circles, I'll just skip right to the end...

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Anyway, my point about the Saturn having a more diverse library is pretty easy to justify. Why? Because the Saturn focused on both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measureJakandsigz

Eh?

As far as good games go -

For the entire 3rd person shooter genre Saturn has one buggy (though good) game, Burning Rangers, I guess Amok is half decent. As far as I'm concerned that's it

Saturn only has one 3D action Adventure game, Tomb Raider, an inferior multiplat, that's it.

For the entire 3D platformer genre it has one OK multiplatform game, Croc, that's it.

There are waay more 2D platformers.

The entire Racing genre is slim pickens as it is, there's certainly no more than 5 I would play today, 7 odd if I'm feeling generous.

Saturn has about 3 times the number of 2D fighters in comparison to 3D ones

Masses of block falling puzzle games

Masses of scrolling shmups.

The Saturn library is massively biased towards 2D

Firstly, I didn't say just "good" games, but stated the Saturn has a more diverse library overall (whether great, good, mediocre, or bad).

Secondly, the Saturn was not biased in either direction, but focused on offering both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measure. It just so happens that much of its 3D library has been forgotten (probably because many of them were multi-plats with better versions available elsewhere) and it's better remembered for its 2D library.

And thirdly, like I said before, the N64 was indeed mostly superior to the Saturn when it came to 3D gaming (except for 3D fighters, of course), but at least the Saturn had a lot more to offer for 3D gaming than the N64 did for 2D gaming, and that is what gives the Saturn a more diverse overall library.

Diversity has nothing to do with how many 2D and 3D games it has, it has to do with different types of games.

Saturn consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Tank Sim
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Light Gun
Jrpgs

N64 consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
Racing Sims
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Farming Sim
Jrpgs
Wrpg

The N64 has 1 more genre than Saturn, and has more diversity. That said, Saturn has more games.

Not sure where you got those lists from, but...

You forgot to include shmups, visual novels, dating sims and puzzle games on the Saturn list.

Also, the N64 barely had any adventure games (not to be confused with action-adventures) or WRPG's.

#174 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

Firstly, I didn't say just "good" games, but stated the Saturn has a more diverse library overall (whether great, good, mediocre, or bad).

Secondly, the Saturn was not biased in either direction, but focused on offering both 2D and 3D games in almost equal measure. It just so happens that much of its 3D library has been forgotten (probably because many of them were multi-plats with better versions available elsewhere) and it's better remembered for its 2D library.

And thirdly, like I said before, the N64 was indeed mostly superior to the Saturn when it came to 3D gaming (except for 3D fighters, of course), but at least the Saturn had a lot more to offer for 3D gaming than the N64 did for 2D gaming, and that is what gives the Saturn a more diverse overall library.

Jag85

Diversity has nothing to do with how many 2D and 3D games it has, it has to do with different types of games.

Saturn consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Tank Sim
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Light Gun
Jrpgs

N64 consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
Racing Sims
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Farming Sim
Jrpgs
Wrpg

The N64 has 1 more genre than Saturn, and has more diversity. That said, Saturn has more games.

Not sure where you got those lists from, but...

You forgot to include shmups, visual novels, dating sims and puzzle games on the Saturn list.

Also, the N64 barely had any adventure games (not to be confused with action-adventures) or WRPG's.

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one? Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.
#175 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one? Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.Jakandsigz

The N64 has a diverse library? :lol:

That's cute.

#176 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"]

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one? Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.Emerald_Warrior

The N64 has a diverse library? :lol:

That's cute.

THe Saturn has more games but not more Genres is all I am saying.
#177 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -
[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"]

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one? Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.Jakandsigz

The N64 has a diverse library? :lol:

That's cute.

THe Saturn has more games but not more Genres is all I am saying.

What? Of course it has more genres :|
#178 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

The N64 has a diverse library? :lol:

That's cute.

Dudersaper
THe Saturn has more games but not more Genres is all I am saying.

What? Of course it has more genres :|

Just going off what I could find. I'll take a better list if you can find one.
#179 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -
Well added to your list there's missing Visual Novels, Dating Sims (it's debatable if those two should be the same genre), Puzzle games (which also applies to the N64), the Saturn has lots of "trading card" type games. (which while I'm posting, I just noticed Jag just mentioned most of those genres) And other than having more genres, it has, for the most part, more games within each genre. The most obvious exception in quality/quantity being 3D Platformers.
#180 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]Well added to your list there's missing Visual Novels, Dating Sims (it's debatable if those two should be the same genre), Puzzle games (which also applies to the N64), the Saturn has lots of "trading card" type games. (which while I'm posting, I just noticed Jag just mentioned most of those genres) And other than having more genres, it has, for the most part, more games within each genre. The most obvious exception in quality/quantity being 3D Platformers.

I was just trying to show that the diversity isn't that low on the N64 that most people commonly think. It's actually higher than the Gamecubes and if I'm not mistaken the Gamecube has more games so you would think it would have more genres. I could be completely wrong though feel free to correct me.
#181 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -
It may have a number of genres, you're not wrong about that, but lots of the genres are almost obsolete on the console since most of the games in a certain genre might not even be worth checking out. Like RPG's, it has a couple, maybe 5 or 6, that might be stretching it. Though I wouldn't say any are really worth getting an N64 to play them, same goes for Shmups.
#182 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"]

Diversity has nothing to do with how many 2D and 3D games it has, it has to do with different types of games.

Saturn consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Tank Sim
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Light Gun
Jrpgs

N64 consists of:

Action
Action-Adventure
Adventure
Driving
Arcade Racing
Racing Sims
RPG
Sports
Strategy
Flight Sims
Beat Em Up
Fighters
Platformers
FPS
TPS
Static
Farming Sim
Jrpgs
Wrpg

The N64 has 1 more genre than Saturn, and has more diversity. That said, Saturn has more games.

Jakandsigz

Not sure where you got those lists from, but...

You forgot to include shmups, visual novels, dating sims and puzzle games on the Saturn list.

Also, the N64 barely had any adventure games (not to be confused with action-adventures) or WRPG's.

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one?

Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

#183 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

Not sure where you got those lists from, but...

You forgot to include shmups, visual novels, dating sims and puzzle games on the Saturn list.

Also, the N64 barely had any adventure games (not to be confused with action-adventures) or WRPG's.

Jag85

So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one?

Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

#184 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"] So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one?

Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.Emerald_Warrior

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

I'd say Star Fox and Sin & Punisment but those are more rail shooters than shmups. And just because you don't care about a genre doesn't mean it's not there :P there's a HUGE ammount of visual novels/dating sims on the Saturn, and it's a very popular genre in Japan.
#185 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"] So I forgot to include genres the N64 also has and would still win by one?

Also N64 had adventure games I have no idea why you think I would confuse that when I listed both. But I was strictly talking about western releases, but again, N64 has those same genres. That 1 Wrpg on the N64 puts it ahead of the Saturn.Emerald_Warrior

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

#186 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

Jag85

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games. Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.
#187 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

Jakandsigz

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games. Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.

I get what he means. Stuff like Myst. "Adventure" may not be the best description for that, since Zelda is the first thing that pops into most people's minds when you say "adventure games".

Mystery games, maybe?

#188 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

The N64 also has puzzles games, but I'm struggling to think of any shmups, visual novels, dating sims, adventure games or WRPG's for the N64... Care to name some?

Dudersaper

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

I'd say Star Fox and Sin & Punisment but those are more rail shooters than shmups. And just because you don't care about a genre doesn't mean it's not there :P

there's a HUGE ammount of visual novels/dating sims on the Saturn, and it's a very popular genre in Japan.

I wouldn't say they're very popular in Japan, but visual novels and dating sims are mostly niche Otaku genres over there. However, though there are some (i.e. usually ones that aren't perverse) that gain more mainstream recognition from time to time, e.g. Snatcher, Policenauts, Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Wars, YU-NO, Machi, etc.

#189 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

Jakandsigz

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games. Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.

You're just helping his case then, because the Saturn has both "proper" adventure games (assuming you're talking about point & click adventure games) like Myst, and visual novels, like *spill huge list* 2 genres the N64 has near nothing, if not nothing at all of.
#190 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"][QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

Jag85

I'd say Star Fox and Sin & Punisment but those are more rail shooters than shmups. And just because you don't care about a genre doesn't mean it's not there :P

there's a HUGE ammount of visual novels/dating sims on the Saturn, and it's a very popular genre in Japan.

I wouldn't say they're very popular in Japan, but visual novels and dating sims are mostly niche Otaku genres over there. However, though there are some (i.e. usually ones that aren't perverse) that gain more mainstream recognition from time to time, e.g. Snatcher, Policenauts, Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Wars, YU-NO, Machi, etc.

I always had the impression they were pretty popular in Japan, I stand corrected.
#191 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

The only shoot-em up on the N64 I know of (and is one of the few N64 games I still want left on my wishlist), is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I don't know of any WRPGs. And adventure games, what about the 2 Zelda games? I could care less for dating sims.

Jakandsigz

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games.

Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.

Though it's debatable, visual novels are usually considered a sub-genre of adventure games, but feel free to list it as a separate genre... although that would only end up giving the Saturn yet another extra genre.

As for the N64, I've tried looking for a bit, and I'm struggling to find games in those genres... Like I said before, care to name some?

#192 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Emerald_Warrior

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games. Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.

I get what he means. Stuff like Myst. "Adventure" may not be the best description for that, since Zelda is the first thing that pops into most people's minds when you say "adventure games".

Mystery games, maybe?

Actually Myst would be closer to a proper Adventure game. Visuals novels is its own kind of thing. Closer to an Interactive movie.
#193 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jakandsigz"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

The Zelda games are action-adventures. What I mean is proper adventure games, i.e. graphic adventures, visual novels, text adventures, etc.

Jag85

Visual Novels aren't "proper" adventure games.

Otherwise, you can find many of those genres on the N64 through game lists like through Gamefaqs, All game etc.

Though it's debatable, visual novels are usually considered a sub-genre of adventure games, but feel free to list it as a separate genre... although that would only end up giving the Saturn yet another extra genre.

As for the N64, I've tried looking for a bit, and I'm struggling to find games in those genres... Like I said before, care to name some?

Yakouchuu II is one.
#194 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]I'd say Star Fox and Sin & Punisment but those are more rail shooters than shmups. And just because you don't care about a genre doesn't mean it's not there :P

there's a HUGE ammount of visual novels/dating sims on the Saturn, and it's a very popular genre in Japan.Dudersaper

I wouldn't say they're very popular in Japan, but visual novels and dating sims are mostly niche Otaku genres over there. However, though there are some (i.e. usually ones that aren't perverse) that gain more mainstream recognition from time to time, e.g. Snatcher, Policenauts, Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Wars, YU-NO, Machi, etc.

I always had the impression they were pretty popular in Japan, I stand corrected.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention stuff like Clannad, Fate Stay Night, Steins Gate, 428, 999, Zero Escape, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, etc. Those are pretty mainstream too.

However, for the most part, mainstream Japanese gamers usually look down on VN's and dating sims as trashy perverse games... not too different to how mainstream Western gamers view them.

#195 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

I wouldn't say they're very popular in Japan, but visual novels and dating sims are mostly niche Otaku genres over there. However, though there are some (i.e. usually ones that aren't perverse) that gain more mainstream recognition from time to time, e.g. Snatcher, Policenauts, Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Wars, YU-NO, Machi, etc.

Jag85

I always had the impression they were pretty popular in Japan, I stand corrected.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention stuff like Clannad, Fate Stay Night, Steins Gate, 428, 999, Zero Escape, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, etc. Those are pretty mainstream too.

However, for the most part, mainstream Japanese gamers usually look down on VN's and dating sims as trashy perverse games... not too different to how mainstream Western gamers view them.

I was really never aware that was the case, mostly because of the sheer ammount of VN's/Dating Sims on the Saturn, PC and PS1/2, it just seemed like it was a popular genre since there's just so many of them out there.
#196 Posted by Dudersaper (32950 posts) -
Speaking of VN's/Dating Sims, just remembered the N64 has Wonder Project J2. Can't think of any others though.
#197 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]I always had the impression they were pretty popular in Japan, I stand corrected.Dudersaper

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention stuff like Clannad, Fate Stay Night, Steins Gate, 428, 999, Zero Escape, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, etc. Those are pretty mainstream too.

However, for the most part, mainstream Japanese gamers usually look down on VN's and dating sims as trashy perverse games... not too different to how mainstream Western gamers view them.

I was really never aware that was the case, mostly because of the sheer ammount of VN's/Dating Sims on the Saturn, PC and PS1/2, it just seemed like it was a popular genre since there's just so many of them out there.

It's one of the top 3 genres for spending nothing and making twice back.
#198 Posted by Jag85 (4915 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]I always had the impression they were pretty popular in Japan, I stand corrected.Dudersaper

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention stuff like Clannad, Fate Stay Night, Steins Gate, 428, 999, Zero Escape, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, etc. Those are pretty mainstream too.

However, for the most part, mainstream Japanese gamers usually look down on VN's and dating sims as trashy perverse games... not too different to how mainstream Western gamers view them.

I was really never aware that was the case, mostly because of the sheer ammount of VN's/Dating Sims on the Saturn, PC and PS1/2, it just seemed like it was a popular genre since there's just so many of them out there.

The reason why there's so many VN's & dating sims is because they have a large cult following among niche Otaku audiences. Only a small fraction of VN's & dating sims target mainstream Japanese audiences, mainly because it's a lot more risky for an indie dev. As a result, the majority of indie VN dev's usually just take the safer option and target the Otaku audiences who are more likely to bring them a profit, and fill their games with unncessary "fan service" to pander to their Otaku audiences... In fact, the same could be said for a lot of modern JRPG's, which often also suffer from similar bouts of Otaku pandering.

I think it's a shame, because the VN medium has considerable potential, both as a game genre and as a new storytelling medium in its own right, only for it to be squandered by all this Otaku pandering. Nevertheless, there are many VN's that don't pander to Otaku's and instead focus on providing compelling interactive storytelling experiences, like the VN's I've mentioned above.

#199 Posted by Platform_King (117 posts) -
Why is there not many people that appreciate the n64's library, sure its shooters have aged poorly and the control sticks wear out, but the games were of such quality. In my opinion that gen was the gen where Nintendo's 3D games were truly impressive in their time. IMO there hasn't been a 3d platformer like mario 64 since mario 64, and golden eye was responsible for making FPS's a main stream genre, and four controller slots! People still play the n64 when they want a quality multiplayer experience, games like golden eye ,mario kart 64, perfect dark, star fox 64, SSB, Quake 2, battle tanx, Diddy kong racing and the mario parties were always a blast when you would have friends over. Now you can get some of those great games on the virtual console and they play flawlessly.
#200 Posted by Jakandsigz (4512 posts) -
Why is there not many people that appreciate the n64's library, sure its shooters have aged poorly and the control sticks wear out, but the games were of such quality. In my opinion that gen was the gen where Nintendo's 3D games were truly impressive in their time. IMO there hasn't been a 3d platformer like mario 64 since mario 64, and golden eye was responsible for making FPS's a main stream genre, and four controller slots! People still play the n64 when they want a quality multiplayer experience, games like golden eye ,mario kart 64, perfect dark, star fox 64, SSB, Quake 2, battle tanx, Diddy kong racing and the mario parties were always a blast when you would have friends over. Now you can get some of those great games on the virtual console and they play flawlessly.Platform_King
:lol: