Phil Fish Says YouTube is Stealing From Him

#1 Posted by mastermetal777 (828 posts) -

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/06/18/phil-fish-says-youtubers-are-committing-piracy-owe-him-money.aspx?utm_content=buffer93f76&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Seriously, Phil Fish has got some narcissism and ego to think this. Granted, gameplay videos on YouTube are a little gray at the moment, but Let's Plays, reviews, and similar things are all under fair use. To think these things is just egotistical and wrong. And before anyone can prove to him wrong, he deletes his Twitter account. What a coward, in my opinion. He can't take criticism and thinks he's the be-all-end-all of video games.

#2 Posted by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/06/18/phil-fish-says-youtubers-are-committing-piracy-owe-him-money.aspx?utm_content=buffer93f76&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Seriously, Phil Fish has got some narcissism and ego to think this. Granted, gameplay videos on YouTube are a little gray at the moment, but Let's Plays, reviews, and similar things are all under fair use. To think these things is just egotistical and wrong. And before anyone can prove to him wrong, he deletes his Twitter account. What a coward, in my opinion. He can't take criticism and thinks he's the be-all-end-all of video games.

Youtube videos isn't a grey area at all , its clear cut fact that anyone who uploads and profits on a video that contains copyrighted material is by the law not only committing a crime but also stealing money from the original content creator.

The key here though is that most game publishers/developers allows this since it does benefit them but don't mistake that for it being a grey area or legal.

#3 Posted by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

This is another example in my opinion of the message getting lost because of the deliverer of the message. Seriously Phil Fish needs to call it a day and go back to whatever sulking pit he just crawled out of.

#4 Posted by mastermetal777 (828 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Actually, most YouTube revenue comes from the advertising in the videos, not the content itself. And putting commentary on something automatically makes it original content.

And what about reviews? They use gameplay footage to analyze the game. Should those videos also be illegal?

#5 Posted by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Actually, most YouTube revenue comes from the advertising in the videos, not the content itself. And putting commentary on something automatically makes it original content.

And what about reviews? They use gameplay footage to analyze the game. Should those videos also be illegal?

No, putting commentary on a gameplay video doesn't make it original content, Just because you put your voice on top of a gameplay video from any game doesn't make it suddenly your content and you can do with it what you want.and the law is pretty clear here not to mention that it has just been up where it was made 100% clear that its not original content and that the owners have every right to either remove the monetization option for the uploader or simply ask for the video to be taken down.

Also what are you talking about? most revenue comes from advertising in the video´s? well how youtube works is either by using overlays during the video, running ads before the video or after. so not sure what you're trying to say there.

So Phil Fish is 100% correct, people who upload and earn money of Fez video´s are actually taking money from him and he could if he wanted demand the content to be taken down.

#6 Posted by spike6958 (4684 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Actually, most YouTube revenue comes from the advertising in the videos, not the content itself. And putting commentary on something automatically makes it original content.

And what about reviews? They use gameplay footage to analyze the game. Should those videos also be illegal?

Agreed. Also, Microsoft and Sony have included the ability to upload to Youtube, and stream on Twitch on there systems. They wouldn't have done this if the big developers felt it was an illegal use of there content.

This is just Fish been the whining child he's always been. He had one game do reasonably well, and then felt he had the right to dictate how the entire industry is run. He doesn't, this industry is run by it's fans, we determine what's a success and what's a failure, and we do that in a variety of ways, not just by voting with our wallets, but also showing support by sharing our experiences with others online, be it forums, Youtube or other means, and introducing them to games they might not have ever played otherwise.

It's not always perfect, and sometimes we complain about things before we really see them, and accidentally change it for the worst, but at least we have the choice. The industry is better off without people like Fish, let's just hope he's gone for good this time, because he's said in the past he's done with it, but he keep rearing his ugly face everything he pull some shit out his ass.

#7 Edited by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

@spike6958 said:

@mastermetal777 said:

@Jacanuk: Actually, most YouTube revenue comes from the advertising in the videos, not the content itself. And putting commentary on something automatically makes it original content.

And what about reviews? They use gameplay footage to analyze the game. Should those videos also be illegal?

Agreed. Also, Microsoft and Sony have included the ability to upload to Youtube, and stream on Twitch on there systems. They wouldn't have done this if the big developers felt it was an illegal use of there content.

This is just Fish been the whining child he's always been. He had one game do reasonably well, and then felt he had the right to dictate how the entire industry is run. He doesn't, this industry is run by it's fans, we determine what's a success and what's a failure, and we do that in a variety of ways, not just by voting with our wallets, but also showing support by sharing our experiences with others online, be it forums, Youtube or other means, and introducing them to games they might not have ever played otherwise.

It's not always perfect, and sometimes we complain about things before we really see them, and accidentally change it for the worst, but at least we have the choice. The industry is better off without people like Fish, let's just hope he's gone for good this time, because he's said in the past he's done with it, but he keep rearing his ugly face everything he pull some shit out his ass.

Dont mistake a acceptance for it being legal or them losing their rights to their material. What´s being done is simply that the owners weighs out the potential harm vs benefit and there is a lot more benefit in having people upload clips of their game then there is to not only cause bad will among gamers but also stop their games from getting free PR.

But i must it's always amusing to hear laymen talk about law like they have the right answer and the law isn't clear on the subject.

#9 Edited by Mesomorphin (809 posts) -

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

AlphaOmegaSin does the best job explaining it

#10 Posted by Jinkla (9 posts) -

Phil Fish also said that all JRPG's suck. Phil Fish say's a lot of things.

#11 Edited by mastermetal777 (828 posts) -

@Jacanuk: you said nothing of the legality of it in that paragraph. Besides, if it really were as illegal as you claim, all of the lawyers in each game company would make the devs forcibly remove every single piece of gameplay on YouTube regardless of the context or even destroy Twitch altogether. Posting gameplay w/commentary, making a review video featuring gameplay, or even discussing the game with gameplay footage for context is not illegal as long as you give the proper credit to whomever made the game, whether it be in the description or showing footage of the intro dev credits that most games have when you boot them up.

#12 Edited by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

@mastermetal777 said:

@Jacanuk: you said nothing of the legality of it in that paragraph. Besides, if it really were as illegal as you claim, all of the lawyers in each game company would make the devs forcibly remove every single piece of gameplay on YouTube or even destroy Twitch altogether. Posting gameplay is not illegal as long as you give the proper credit to whomever made the game.

First i didn't think i actually had to convince you that the game developers didn't lose their right to their work because someone used their voice while playing the game. Its just such a absurd thing to even debate since everyone and their grandma knows that that the original content owners of course still hold all rights to their work and which is why youtube had to make a new tool to enforce these rights and also stopped excluding youtubers who were in a network from the automatic right-bot.

So while yes the youtuber who made the video holds the rights to the voice the visual content is still very much the developers/publishers/musicans/graphics´s work and they hold all rights to it, and if you really do need more convincing you can also read these links and get it explained in more detail.

http://www.develop-online.net/analysis/uploading-gameplay-content-to-youtube-the-law-versus-the-commercial-reality/0187828

http://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2013/a-legal-guide-to-lets-play-and-gaming-videos/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/12/youtube-lets-play-copyright-ubisoft-google

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/12/18/publishers-likely-not-reporting-youtube-lets-play-creators/

Which also explains in great detail why its actually in developers best interest not to work against a community but actually with them and think about how many times you have bought a game because you saw someone on youtube played it and you will also get why its in their best interest.

So now that we have cleared that the game developers of course own the rights to their games, we can move on to why Fish has a point in what he says, if you could prove 100% that a youtuber got ex. 1mi views because of fez That youtuber in a way have earned this cash because of Fish and his work. Thereby also in a way have "stolen" the income from Fish.

#13 Posted by TheShadowLord07 (22110 posts) -

isn't possible to have lets play video's on youtube without users getting money? you know so both parties will feel at ease with one another.

#14 Edited by RyviusARC (4205 posts) -

@TheShadowLord07 said:

isn't possible to have lets play video's on youtube without users getting money? you know so both parties will feel at ease with one another.

Only YouTube Partners get money on their videos.

I do gameplay recordings and don't receive a dime.

#15 Posted by Chatch09 (287 posts) -

Phil Fish is a complete asshat. @mesomorphin I loved that video, thanks for sharing lol.

#16 Posted by ChronosChris (162 posts) -

isn't possible to have lets play video's on youtube without users getting money? you know so both parties will feel at ease with one another.

Not really because a lot of the big name youtubers actually make a living for this kind of thing to a point where they've quit their old jobs.

#17 Edited by ChronosChris (162 posts) -

If it was truly illegal, I don't think PewDiePie would be making 4 million dollars a year doing what he does. Also TwitchTV wouldn't even exist in it's current form if it was illegal. People make money through ad revenue and channel subscriptions, they're not selling other peoples content or claiming it as their own. Microsoft and Sony support twitch tv fully, so saying it's a illegal or stream to upload videos is absurd.

#18 Edited by MirkoS77 (7026 posts) -

@chronoschris said:

If it was truly illegal, I don't think PewDiePie would be making 4 million dollars a year doing what he does. Also TwitchTV wouldn't even exist in it's current form if it was illegal. People make money through ad revenue and channel subscriptions, they're not selling other peoples content or claiming it as their own. Microsoft and Sony support twitch tv fully, so saying it's a illegal or stream to upload videos is absurd.

Are you a subscriber of Reviewtech USA? I saw his video on that recently, that's pretty nuts.

I don't quite understand why someone who uses gameplay footage isn't entitled to financial gain. Each game is played differently by the player. It is their creation, even more so when commentary is added. Should a painter not be entitled to compensation for their work because the brushes/canvas were created by someone else? Should a pianist not be paid for their compositions because they didn't build the piano? It's essentially the same idea. I don't see what the problem is. Just because someone created the tools necessary for someone else's expression doesn't mean all forms of expression from that point onward belongs to them by default. It's unjustified entitlement.

I have a feeling people don't think "Let's Play"ers deserve any money because they're......having FUN. Can't have that.

#19 Edited by marlobc (800 posts) -

@RyviusARC: anyone can be youtube partners now , switch on monetization , and link your youtube to adsense ,make sure none of your video have copyright claims .

#20 Edited by firefox59 (4345 posts) -

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

I can't believe anyone still gives Phil Fish a second of their time. He has proven that he's a hateful jerkface and that no one should listen to him. The one game he made was a crappy platformer with a dumb gimmick. People need to stop makes threads about this guy.

#21 Posted by Mesomorphin (809 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

I can't believe anyone still gives Phil Fish a second of their time. He has proven that he's a hateful jerkface and that no one should listen to him. The one game he made was a crappy platformer with a dumb gimmick. People need to stop makes threads about this guy.

He's a fucking coward. He cancelled his game, and said fuck you to the fans, all because some one insulted him. Hes essentially part of a huge number of scum that populate the earth.

#22 Edited by Heirren (16306 posts) -

@firefox59 said:

@mesomorphin said:

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

I can't believe anyone still gives Phil Fish a second of their time. He has proven that he's a hateful jerkface and that no one should listen to him. The one game he made was a crappy platformer with a dumb gimmick. People need to stop makes threads about this guy.

He's a fucking coward. He cancelled his game, and said fuck you to the fans, all because some one insulted him. Hes essentially part of a huge number of scum that populate the earth.

I have a feeling he cancelled his game for contractual reasons. Now, I can be completely wrong about this, but maybe the politics behind the release of the first game were for the first game only. I'm referring to what I remember(which I could be remembering wrong) in the Indie Game Movie about the problems coming to FEZ release. There was commotion about ownership, etc. Maybe the game engine, and the lot, did not involve Fish and the release of a second game would have to be started from scratch.

Maybe he sat there making levels in the old engine and realized that if it wasn't new enough people and critics would bash the game.

#23 Posted by platinumking320 (663 posts) -

@Jacanuk:

Eh. Well I say just look at it as one of those 'because capitalism' . Somethings are best decided by the market when the law is still written in antiquated ways that benefit the copyright owner even more so than many artists . In Fish's case since its was him the outrage can be understood, but given his other explosions. people will naturally sense the anger is coming from something else.

Some people make poorly timed legal claims like Bethesda with John Carmack over oculus. When is probably jealousy and loathing. The man is a brilliant programmer but I say let him do what he wants. No contract has rights to his own brain ya'know?

I guess part of me rests in sympathy with youtubers that bring better first impression critique or humorous content, especially since some pc gamers are getting the word out about bad pc ports and a true standard for a 'finished' product should be. I value the calling out bs business practices part of it, while I certaintly understand the 100 hour wks and zombie nights of programming and exasperating mental strain, tedium and problem-solving that goes into media creation not to mention the time and wanting to recoop those expenses at the very least before making a profit, depending on the quality of a derivative or foundational work (I say foudational, because at some point, whether noticeable or not we all copy and transform ideas and concepts)

While we do have a lot of internet panhandlers using LPs as just another smokescreen, theres too much dishonest scammery on the internet to point out in general. Like that Solar Roadways and the 2 million they raised on indiegogo....Yeah....That happened and we all let it happen.

#24 Edited by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

@mesomorphin said:

@firefox59 said:

@mesomorphin said:

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

I can't believe anyone still gives Phil Fish a second of their time. He has proven that he's a hateful jerkface and that no one should listen to him. The one game he made was a crappy platformer with a dumb gimmick. People need to stop makes threads about this guy.

He's a fucking coward. He cancelled his game, and said fuck you to the fans, all because some one insulted him. Hes essentially part of a huge number of scum that populate the earth.

Fish is not a coward, he is just fighting with some mental problems that makes him do crazy things before thinking. I kinda feel sorry for him particular after seeing the Indie movie where you saw a bit of his world. Its not easy having that kind of high emotional response to things.

#25 Posted by Jeager_Titan (945 posts) -

Ahem.

#26 Edited by Byshop (11059 posts) -

Phil Fish is technically correct, but it doesn't make him any less of a tool. Literally every video game publisher has the right to have literally -any- video of their games on Youtube that were made without their consent taken down, but most don't do this because they see the value in allowing other people to basically create free advertising for them. Some comapnies are very aggressive about this (try finding a clip of the UFC on Youtube that isn't posted by FuelTV, Fox Sports, the official UFC channel, etc) while most game companies tend to allow it. With TV shows and movies, the value of the content is in watching, not owning. If you can watch a movie online for free then there's little incentive to ever buy it, so movie and tv studios tend to be far more aggressive about copyrighted material takedown.

-Byshop

#27 Posted by wiouds (5020 posts) -

It is a gray area. Fair use is about it is fair to use it as long as it does not devalue the original work. You can not post an entire novel, or upload an entire movie. The gray area is that it is game play is not uploaded so does it change the value of the game?

#28 Posted by Jacanuk (3946 posts) -

@Byshop said:

Phil Fish is technically correct, but it doesn't make him any less of a tool. Literally every video game publisher has the right to have literally -any- video of their games on Youtube that were made without their consent taken down, but most don't do this because they see the value in allowing other people to basically create free advertising for them. Some comapnies are very aggressive about this (try finding a clip of the UFC on Youtube that isn't posted by FuelTV, Fox Sports, the official UFC channel, etc) while most game companies tend to allow it. With TV shows and movies, the value of the content is in watching, not owning. If you can watch a movie online for free then there's little incentive to ever buy it, so movie and tv studios tend to be far more aggressive about copyrighted material takedown.

-Byshop

Agree here and as TB also says the message despite its validity comes from the worst source possible.

Fish lost all his goodwill and fanbase when he did his first twitter stunt.

#29 Posted by Treflis (11428 posts) -

I'd say fair enough, remove any video's about Fez and let it be forgotten, Just like he will be afterwards. It's clearly what he wants.

#30 Edited by Mesomorphin (809 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@mesomorphin said:

@firefox59 said:

@mesomorphin said:

He made one single fucking game! and he swears upon the earth that he's entitled to everyones respect and bank accounts! He honestly thinks he's the holy grail in the industry, I had the time of my life when he had that little fit over game-trailers calling him out, hahaha! He said he would take the money and leave, and nooooooow he's back to bitch over free adverting of his game.

I can't believe anyone still gives Phil Fish a second of their time. He has proven that he's a hateful jerkface and that no one should listen to him. The one game he made was a crappy platformer with a dumb gimmick. People need to stop makes threads about this guy.

He's a fucking coward. He cancelled his game, and said fuck you to the fans, all because some one insulted him. Hes essentially part of a huge number of scum that populate the earth.

Fish is not a coward, he is just fighting with some mental problems that makes him do crazy things before thinking. I kinda feel sorry for him particular after seeing the Indie movie where you saw a bit of his world. Its not easy having that kind of high emotional response to things.

Please dont ever defend him. He deliberately went up to a Japanese developer and told him his games where shit, and then repeated it on twitter. He then went ahead and started telling people to go kill themselves on twitter, followed by his big F U to the fans, because he was too butthurt and sore to fucking man up, and in so he decided to cancel his game. And now he wants to take money from people who are giving HIS GAME FREE ADVERTISEMENTS. Oh....but he is such a poor man because he high emotional response...HAHAHA yeah good fucking joke.