People are scared of digital releases

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Posted by pyro1245 (873 posts) -

Seems to be an issue. Now I like box art and touching shiny, shiny discs as much as the next guy; but we're at the point where they are pretty obsolete. Not to mention the fact that they require plastic to make, which requires oil, which is something of a non-renewable resource with many many other, more useful applications. Disc based mediums are also slow. Really slow; making a local installation now necessary on whichever platform you use. Plus you have to go to the store to pick it up or order it and pay for shipping.

I think people know they are slow and wasteful, this is not the source of fear and anger; but what if your purchased game gets removed from the market and you can't download it anymore :o. This is a real issue for people with closed platforms like console/phones/tablets who can't (easily) back up their game data. I guess that's more of an issue with the idea of a closed platform though. However, I think this will be that last generation of gaming consoles to see disc-based releases, so backup functionality will most-likely be provided.

When I purchase a digital game on my computer I just back up those 1's and 0's to a separate HDD (space is so cheap now, another reason why digital releases make sense). I can play all my games, even if half of the world (not my half) sinks into the oceans. Yeah yeah.... some of them feature DRM, if something extreme happens I can just crack them; it would be legit at that point.

It won't happen today, or even 2 years from now (because people too often provide resistance to the progression of technology); but it'll happen soon. I just hope we get there before all gaming moves to the cloud for $5/hr flat rate. I still like having my 1's and 0's run locally.

It's been well over 30 years, time to retire the disc. Seriously I've lost way more games because of lost/borrowed discs than I ever will because a company goes out of business or loses a license (has that even happened to any notable games?).

#1 Edited by -ParaNormaN- (834 posts) -

For me, its not just having the disc, case, etc. but like you said, what if it gets taken off the market and can't be downloaded anynore? Especially if you paid for the game a few months/years back, had to delete the game to make room for other games and Sony or Microsoft lose rights to them? Your money has been stolen. I love collecting my games and being able to look at my shelf and see what I got and digital doesn't provide that. Not to mention that the Playstation Store is really slow and a chore to use. I don't know how the Xbox Store is but I really hate using the PS Store.

#2 Posted by iamllamapie (211 posts) -

You have to think, some places on this planet have extremely slow download speed and a capped amount of downloads weekly/monthly. Just because we can afford it doesn't mean others can.

Not to mention games on XBLA (Whatever it is now) and the PS Store are ridiculously priced. I can get a game used on Amazon for, say, £5 while XBLA/PS Store ask £20+. Some games stick to the RRP years after it's release while physical new copies are half the price, if not more. So until they change that, I can't see digital being a big thing for consoles.

#3 Posted by pillarrocks (1320 posts) -

I like digital releases but hate how it's slow to download on PSN. Plus what if Sony shuts off the servers for PSN on the PS3 in say 10 years? I lose access to those games I bought via digital. I wish there was a way on the PS3 to backup my games incase such thing happened. Also the prices on games on PSN are pretty high like $60. Steam I have no problems buying as I am sure Steam will be around forever even when Gabe passes away.

#4 Posted by Ish_basic (4029 posts) -

The biggest problem is the change in the definition of ownership. Console gamers are used to being able to sell their games. That has obvious advantages, but less obvious is that by surrendering your rights to sell a game, you give full rights to retailers to control the pricing. Do you trust them to be fair? Not everyone is Steam and furthermore, because there are licensing fees on console games, Sony and MS will have a say in that pricing as well.

#5 Posted by WR_Platinum (4667 posts) -

People are not scared of digital releases. People just like to own and even some like to collect physical copies of their games. Really that simple.

#6 Edited by betamaxx83 (351 posts) -

I want control over the things I buy, I paid for it so I should be able to do whatever I please with it. You give up a lot of ownership in my opinion by digital downloads.

#7 Posted by Archangel3371 (15743 posts) -

I much rather have my games on physical format especially considering how big they are these days. I have a decent Internet connection but installing games from a disc takes way less time then downloading them.

#8 Edited by BranKetra (48771 posts) -

@WR_Platinum said:

People are not scared of digital releases. People just like to own and even some like to collect physical copies of their games. Really that simple.

There is also the fact that digital games are inconveniently priced the same as physical copies of games, so there is not as much of a monetary incentive as we could have. Plus servers for video game consoles have not been proven to be permanent which means they are currently less trustworthy than physical discs. There are other reasons for preferring physical over digital, but fear is not one of them at least for me.

#9 Posted by marcheegsr (2841 posts) -

Physical > Digital

The only digital games I own are the free ones from ps plus. I draw the line there. It's not about being scared. I like to have a collection I can actually display. Call me old fashion.

#10 Posted by ZZoMBiE13 (22911 posts) -

I was actually eager to embrace the all digital future. I prefer Steam to the older PC gaming days of losing a game disc or a CD key to a treasured classic.

But then the new consoles came along with their slow downloads, miniscule HDDs, lengthy installs, and dubious "Start while downloading" features (I've only used the X1's version, Haven't used this feature on the PS4 yet). They brought along with them a lack of backward compatibility meaning that when my current 360 and PS3 die (and they will), that I'm screwed out of dozens of download only titles that I really enjoyed. And I've zero guarantee that it won't happen again when the 9th gen rolls around (if such a thing occurs).

#11 Posted by JustPlainLucas (74217 posts) -

God knows I've debated this to death. Digital only is not the future. Digital only requires an internet connection, and guess what? Not every gamer has readily available broadband, or even Internet period. (Never mind those who have data caps) Did you not pay attention at all during the Xbox One policy debacle? So many reasons why physical still needs to exist, but the Internet issue is a big enough reason alone. If you really do think digital only is the future, you're truly being shortsighted.

#12 Posted by WR_Platinum (4667 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@WR_Platinum said:

People are not scared of digital releases. People just like to own and even some like to collect physical copies of their games. Really that simple.

There is also the fact that digital games are inconveniently priced the same as physical copies if games, so there is not as much of a monetary incentive as we could have. Plus servers for video game console have not been proven to be permanent which means they are currently less trustworthy than physical discs. There are other reasons for preferring physical over digital, but fear is not one of them at least for me.

Exactly.

#13 Edited by 187umKILLAH (1347 posts) -

Physical games will always be my preference, I can sell or lend my disc games and don't have to worry about losing them if servers shut down etc. Also the digital price seems to often be more expensive and I just like seeing them on the shelf too.

#14 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18522 posts) -

@-paranorman- said:

For me, its not just having the disc, case, etc. but like you said, what if it gets taken off the market and can't be downloaded anymore? Especially if you paid for the game a few months/years back, had to delete the game to make room for other games and Sony or Microsoft lose rights to them? Your money has been stolen. I love collecting my games and being able to look at my shelf and see what I got and digital doesn't provide that.

This.

No digital distribution service is eternal and untouchable and I want all my games to be ready for me to pick up and play even 20 years from now.

#15 Edited by nicecall (428 posts) -

i mostly hate digital releases cause i want a physical backup of the game, and a quick way to install it when i want to play it. another reason is the expensive cost of bandwidth... most digital games are growing in size... i've seen some games download sizes go up to 5-30+ gigs. thats an entire months bandwidth allowance for me. If we had current internet speeds and this was the early 90's, this wouldnt be an issue since all the games back then were in the megabytes or less and redownloading a game would talk a matter of seconds.

And even if I spend days/weeks downloading a single game, the hard drives on consoles only allow a small amount of storage, when you run out of space you have to delete it, and redownload it all again if you want to play it again.

Not sure why they don't offer all games in physical form, the cost of making a blu-ray disc is less then a couple dollars for someone buying them, in mass production in a press, you could do it for a matter of cents. At most with packaging and all that, in total a few dollars cost more per game.

They did release Walking Dead on a single disc which was good since if they didn't, i would never have downloaded it to play it.

#16 Edited by withe1982 (450 posts) -

I think there's a time and a place for digital downloads. I personally have a limit on what i'm willing to spend on them. I'll basically not pay more than £10 for any digital release on the off chance that I lose access to it further down the road. I see it more like long term rental than actual ownership.

I have PS+ so it's not that often I'll actually shell out for one unless it's on sale.

If there's a game I really want to keep hold of then I'll go for a physical copy on disc.

#17 Edited by Gargus (2147 posts) -

@pyro1245 said:

Seems to be an issue. Now I like box art and touching shiny, shiny discs as much as the next guy; but we're at the point where they are pretty obsolete. Not to mention the fact that they require plastic to make, which requires oil, which is something of a non-renewable resource with many many other, more useful applications. Disc based mediums are also slow. Really slow; making a local installation now necessary on whichever platform you use. Plus you have to go to the store to pick it up or order it and pay for shipping.

I think people know they are slow and wasteful, this is not the source of fear and anger; but what if your purchased game gets removed from the market and you can't download it anymore :o. This is a real issue for people with closed platforms like console/phones/tablets who can't (easily) back up their game data. I guess that's more of an issue with the idea of a closed platform though. However, I think this will be that last generation of gaming consoles to see disc-based releases, so backup functionality will most-likely be provided.

When I purchase a digital game on my computer I just back up those 1's and 0's to a separate HDD (space is so cheap now, another reason why digital releases make sense). I can play all my games, even if half of the world (not my half) sinks into the oceans. Yeah yeah.... some of them feature DRM, if something extreme happens I can just crack them; it would be legit at that point.

It won't happen today, or even 2 years from now (because people too often provide resistance to the progression of technology); but it'll happen soon. I just hope we get there before all gaming moves to the cloud for $5/hr flat rate. I still like having my 1's and 0's run locally.

It's been well over 30 years, time to retire the disc. Seriously I've lost way more games because of lost/borrowed discs than I ever will because a company goes out of business or loses a license (has that even happened to any notable games?).

The amount of oil used is virtually non exsistant since its a very small amount used. Its not the only chemical used. Although as you obviously don't know blu rays disc use even less oil because they use a organic compound in them, and blu rays since they have more space on them cut down on the use of oil because a dvd movie compilation that once used 4 dvds or a game that once came on 2 discs now only comes on one. So today oil consumption because of physical discs is actually smaller than it used to be and it will continue to shrink as more organic materials are introduced.

Disc based mediums are slow but it is a one time install and your done. If you honestly are making a case against having to install a game ONE TIME and spend a few extra minutes waiting then you have serious issues and have become a spoiled instant gratification baby. Not to mention you still have to download and install your digital games the first. So your argument of it being faster somehow goes right out the window. Infact youre completely wrong. Lets have a race. Ill buy call of duty ghosts from a retail store, you buy the digital version and I will put my game disc in the same time you start downloading it and lets see who is playing it first.

No you don't have to go a store to pick it. Its called delivery, you know if you buy something at amazon they delivery it to your house? A lot of times when you pre order with amazon they do release delivery. No it doesn't cost anything extra and you know a lot of sites offer free delivery, you just chose to ignore this for your argument. I waited years for the diablo 3 expansion, if I have to wait an extra 2 or 3 days after it releases to get it then I think I can wait.

When you back up your games to your hard drive youre wasting money on the physical media to do so. So in the end you pay a lot more because you spend money on hard drives just to save your game to. Oh and since you mentioned oil wasting before on discs youre wasting some more valuable, silver. A good amount of silver goes into a hard drive and oh my goodness it isn't renewable as was your case for oil. And I doubt you have the knowledge or skills to crack a game completely on your own even if half the world wasn't underwater. And I can play all of my disc games even if half the world is underwater, I pull the game out and put it, done.

If you lose games then that's your fault. Seriously how do you "lose a game"? Ive got thousands of games and never lost one in my life. Its either in my system, or it is where it goes when not playing. If you lend it out and someone keeps it, again that's your fault.

#18 Edited by platinumking320 (667 posts) -

@JustPlainLucas said:

God knows I've debated this to death. Digital only is not the future. Digital only requires an internet connection, and guess what? Not every gamer has readily available broadband, or even Internet period. (Never mind those who have data caps) Did you not pay attention at all during the Xbox One policy debacle? So many reasons why physical still needs to exist, but the Internet issue is a big enough reason alone. If you really do think digital only is the future, you're truly being shortsighted.

Yeah. Especially if net neutrality doesn't get fixed. That'll be a growing expense for MS Sony, and publishers, and overtime will be too expensive for us to consume all games single player or multiplayer in an online exclusive ecosystem. Oh sure they might cable-ize it and offer a gaming bundle, but it's not hard to do the math. Everything you're not paying your ISP for will be shoved over to you from additional content provider service fees, or it just won't run.

Funny isn't it? The "final solution" of "protecting intellectual property." (Shackling the internet's open nature) will end up denying games and other IP the amount of exposure, playtime, sales and revenue needed to be truly successful,

and free flow of information to the people. real people.

Is it 'really' lost sales they're more afraid of? Or independent educated consumers?

#19 Posted by tester_guy (56 posts) -

I'm actually more concerned about these patches. Do you notice that even when you buy a disc copy of a game, there is already a patch as soon as you put the disc in? Some say this is DRM but some say that developers were sloppy and needed to fix lots of bugs after a games release. It could be both. The point is: disc copies don't even work very well or completely without an immediate patch downloaded from the Internet.

Let's say worse case scenario and there's a zombie apocalypse. You found a nice PC, the disc of your favorite game, and some energy you siphoned from a local gas station. You put the disc in to start your game and it says "searching for patch . . . please sign in with your amazing Uplay account" or something. That's when you scream "NNNOOOO . . . damn you dirty apes!"

Or say there is no DRM, but you need a patch to fix the millions of bugs that lazy developers wait until AFTER the game is released to fix. There used to be a time when games were shipped out almost as perfect as they can be. Those days are over. Developers ship a very well-polished beta and patch it to the final release with all the bug squashing. Skyrim programmers just said "eh, F it."

So even disc versions are incomplete copies of the games today. I wish it weren't that way, but there's nothing we can do.

#20 Posted by Some-Mist (5630 posts) -

as already mentioned, it's hard to prevent content being taken down due to licensing issues. I actually wanted to snag the Simpsons and X-Men arcade games, but noticed both were taken down from PSN/360. I also wanted to snag the Magical Drop games on PSN, but had the same issue.

I've read horror stories with people who have purchased those games, but can no longer re-download those titles due to their removal.

I'd rather not have to worry about "my games" being taken down because of a service.

#21 Posted by pyro1245 (873 posts) -

These are all good points. So how are you all gonna feel when it inevitable does happen? I know the world is not quite ready. The new consoles have extended the life of disc-based gaming for at least another 5-7 years. After that though resolutions will be higher and so textures will have to be larger and game sizes will increase a lot so that it's just not viable to release disc-based games. The internet infrastructure will get an overhaul (fiber is already being installed all around where I live) and the only thing to remain will be our love for collecting. Maybe publishers could start a reusable (or not) flash drive release for people who still want the box are and manual and other goodies for the sake of collecting.

I'm ready for a digital future. I only collect old ps1 and snes rpgs in physical copies. I have relatively fast internet and most devs already provide a way to play before you completely download a game. And a mighty big HDD to backup all game data on.

#22 Posted by Evil_Saluki (4878 posts) -

Most mine are digital these days.

#23 Edited by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

@-paranorman- said:

For me, its not just having the disc, case, etc. but like you said, what if it gets taken off the market and can't be downloaded anymore? Especially if you paid for the game a few months/years back, had to delete the game to make room for other games and Sony or Microsoft lose rights to them? Your money has been stolen. I love collecting my games and being able to look at my shelf and see what I got and digital doesn't provide that.

This.

No digital distribution service is eternal and untouchable and I want all my games to be ready for me to pick up and play even 20 years from now.

I can only speak on the PC & 3DS. I will admit that I did worry about this at one time, but with memory becoming so cheap, I do not find that to be a compelling argument against DD anymore. I use Steam exclusively for purchasing PC games. The service allows me to back up the games and play them offline. And, I think the 3DS service works the same.

Now, I do not really get a sense of pride from having a physical game collection, so maybe that allows me to favor DD a little more. Plus, I am not to worried about accessing my games 20 years down the road because I have backups. Furthermore, I am not spending $60 on a game (unless I feel that the value proposition is there). That is my two cents.

#24 Posted by Treflis (11575 posts) -

I think it's more about the ownership of a product rather then not being able to have the disk.

Because you don't really want to pay 60$ for a piece of entertainment that could go away when the company providing it for you shuts down the servers that has it because it costs too much.

Then there's the issue of not every placing having great network connection or even afford network connection, or the latest console.

I also don't think Digital distribution will ever work on consoles because once the new model comes out then maybe the games on the old one will be available for another year or two and then become obsolete when the cost of having those servers up isn't profitable. The PC is different as there will always be those that will work on getting older games to work on new PC's and the availability provided by Sites such as GoG.com and even "Good Pirates"

(FYI. "Good Pirates" To me are those that modify old games who's studios have been shut down and products are no longer produced so they can be enjoyed by people even today. Such as Open TTD ( Transport Tycoon Delux) and CorsixTH ( Theme Hospital).

Bad Pirates are those that download music, movies and new games just so they don't have to pay for them. Those I do not condone of)

#25 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (6233 posts) -

@-paranorman- said:

For me, its not just having the disc, case, etc. but like you said, what if it gets taken off the market and can't be downloaded anynore? Especially if you paid for the game a few months/years back, had to delete the game to make room for other games and Sony or Microsoft lose rights to them? Your money has been stolen. I love collecting my games and being able to look at my shelf and see what I got and digital doesn't provide that. Not to mention that the Playstation Store is really slow and a chore to use. I don't know how the Xbox Store is but I really hate using the PS Store.

Yeah same here. Even if I had fast internet speeds (which I don't), I'd still buy physical copies... for the same reasons you mentioned.

#26 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18522 posts) -

@stizzal13 said:

I can only speak on the PC & 3DS. I will admit that I did worry about this at one time, but with memory becoming so cheap, I do not find that to be a compelling argument against DD anymore. I use Steam exclusively for purchasing PC games. The service allows me to back up the games and play them offline. And, I think the 3DS service works the same.

Now, I do not really get a sense of pride from having a physical game collection, so maybe that allows me to favor DD a little more. Plus, I am not to worried about accessing my games 20 years down the road because I have backups. Furthermore, I am not spending $60 on a game (unless I feel that the value proposition is there). That is my two cents.

How does Steam works concerning offline play, exactly? Can you backup a game on an external device such as a flash drive or hard drive and play it it to another computer? My first guess would be no, because that would be an invitation to piracy. As I understand it, you need a computer connected to the internet to at least once contact Valve servers and "request permission" to use offline mode (correct me if I'm wrong). What happens though if and when those servers are no longer available?

#27 Edited by osan0 (12748 posts) -

i get smaller games digitally. but i try to stick to physical where possible.

my internet connection has a cap of 60GB a month and, on a really really good day, it gets to 1Mbps. most of the time its at 0.1-0.2 Mbps. the only way i can get a faster connection is to switch provider but those have a cap of 15GB a month. i dont skimp on broadband..its one of those things i use a lot. but right now i have the very best option available to me...and its unusable for gaming. it took me 6 days to download 10GB.

at the moment games are just too big for me to download.

#28 Posted by osan0 (12748 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00: you can backup games to an external HDD. the backup is not even bound to your account. it will work on any account and on any computer as long as the account trying to use the backup has access rights to the game.

#29 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18522 posts) -

@osan0 said:

@Black_Knight_00: you can backup games to an external HDD. the backup is not even bound to your account. it will work on any account and on any computer as long as the account trying to use the backup has access rights to the game.

So you can transfer it to another PC and it will work without ever connecting to the internet, not even once? What's there to stop people from buying a game and distributing it to all their friends then?

#30 Posted by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

@osan0 said:

@Black_Knight_00: you can backup games to an external HDD. the backup is not even bound to your account. it will work on any account and on any computer as long as the account trying to use the backup has access rights to the game.

So you can transfer it to another PC and it will work without ever connecting to the internet, not even once? What's there to stop people from buying a game and distributing it to all their friends then?

@Black_Knight_00 @osan0

I was under the impression that you had to connect to your Steam account just one-time before playing, but correct me if I am wrong. It has been forever since I have done that. As for the 3DS, I have had the wireless turned off when playing a DD'd game, so that does not appear to be an issue with that platform.

Anyways, as far as Steam's servers not being around 10+ years down the road, I do not see the absolute risk of that being very high. So, I am perfectly fine with assuming that risk in return for the service. Besides, you cannot leave out the possibility of Steam correcting the issue before exiting the service.

#31 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18522 posts) -

@stizzal13 said:

Besides, you cannot leave out the possibility of Steam correcting the issue before exiting the service.

Unfortunately I doubt they can, for legal reasons: if they were to remove all DRM from their games on their way out, they would likely be in breach of contract with all the copyright holders of the games. Even in case of cessation of service, they would not risk to be held accountable for basically making thousands of games shareware, so to speak.

#32 Edited by LJS9502_basic (151458 posts) -

I like the physical copies. Period. I don't want the world to go the download route. I like getting a disk and popping it in...and I'm off. be it a game, a movie, or music.

#33 Posted by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00 said:

@stizzal13 said:

Besides, you cannot leave out the possibility of Steam correcting the issue before exiting the service.

Unfortunately I doubt they can, for legal reasons: if they were to remove all DRM from their games on their way out, they would likely be in breach of contract with all the copyright holders of the games. Even in case of cessation of service, they would not risk to be held accountable for basically making thousands of games shareware, so to speak.

Fair point, that slipped my mind. It would be a nightmare to work with all the different companies and their different DRM systems (based on what we know today), but still, I think the value of Steam far outweighs the risk, especially given Steam's recent trajectory. Besides what seems like a headache now could be very different 10+ years in the future, so I am optimistic about the situation.

#34 Edited by jer_1 (7451 posts) -

When I'm playing console games I would much rather have a physical copy. This isn't such an issue on PC.

#35 Edited by pyro1245 (873 posts) -

@Black_Knight_00: Steam can be used in offline mode for two weeks i believe, at which point you are required to sign back in. There are ways around it like changing the date but I can see where this could cause an issue if you are between homes or something. Although most people have a smartphone nowadays and could just tether it to their computer via usb and the data usage would be nil just to sign in. If California falls into the Pacific and Valve is not longer a thing.... well then I guess it's okay to go ahead and crack it; you paid for the game after all.

#36 Posted by touchscreenpad (220 posts) -

Physical > Digital as well...though both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

#37 Edited by RealJaysonguy (219 posts) -

The day Valve goes out of business is the day I lose a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, it's not happening any time soon, if ever. But stranger things have happened. Tell somebody in 1990 that Circuit City wouldn't be forever, and you'd get about the same reaction you'd get by telling someone Valve won't be around forever.

The longer I can buy physical copies, the more games I'll be able to play when the downloadable interface we use now becomes obsolete, and it will. Steam won't be relevant forever, and how Newell and friends deal with that eventual change will make a big impact on a lot of people's gaming libraries.

#38 Edited by firefox59 (4403 posts) -

People are certainly scared of all-digital for sure. Just look at the Xbox One initial announcement.

#39 Edited by Ish_basic (4029 posts) -

@nicecall: Not sure why they don't offer all games in physical form, the cost of making a blu-ray disc is less then a couple dollars for someone buying them, in mass production in a press, you could do it for a matter of cents. At most with packaging and all that, in total a few dollars cost more per game.

It's not really about the packaging so much as cutting out the middleman. Retailers take about 20% off the top of a new $60 game sale, and, of course, they take 100% of used sales. Digital Distribution would likely get publishers a better deal if not give them control over distribution outright as the need for storefronts would diminish. There's more than one game that has offered perks to players who buy it through their website.

#40 Posted by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@realjaysonguy said:

The day Valve goes out of business is the day I lose a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, it's not happening any time soon, if ever. But stranger things have happened. Tell somebody in 1990 that Circuit City wouldn't be forever, and you'd get about the same reaction you'd get by telling someone Valve won't be around forever.

The longer I can buy physical copies, the more games I'll be able to play when the downloadable interface we use now becomes obsolete, and it will. Steam won't be relevant forever, and how Newell and friends deal with that eventual change will make a big impact on a lot of people's gaming libraries.

@realjaysonguy I agree. It appears that Valve will not be going anywhere in the near-term, but even if Valve ceased to exist as a corporation, its assets would be purchased by another company. Just as Circuit City's assets were purchased by Systemax.

#41 Posted by donalbane (16363 posts) -

Personally, I've sworn off physical media entirely with the start of this generation. It's great... I hate going to retail and supporting middlemen whom I'm more knowledgeable than that try to upsell me stuff I don't want. I'm not into reselling games, so the only downside I see is that I probably won't be able to get any more collector's editions, which is a bit obnoxious. I was able to get BioShock Infinite's collector's edition on PC through amazon and just add it to my steam library with a code, though, so that was pretty cool. But yeah, no more physical media for me. I support the developers and want them to get the money that would have gone to the middlemen.

#42 Edited by wiouds (5257 posts) -

I am careful with the digital system. For every good point about digital there is something bad about it.

DD still have the middle men and worse off is that they have even more power. After reading the EULA it is even more scary. The worse one is steam's. The whole supporting the developer is a joke. I find it hard to believe that they give any more to the developers. What is wrong with supporting local business?

If you look at the normal price on new physical and compare them to digital. Most of the time digital is just as costly if not more. The sales are something you do not control.

In the last few years, I lost more digital only games than I have lost physical.

#43 Posted by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@wiouds said:

I am careful with the digital system. For every good point about digital there is something bad about it.

DD still have the middle men and worse off is that they have even more power. After reading the EULA it is even more scary. The worse one is steam's. The whole supporting the developer is a joke. I find it hard to believe that they give any more to the developers. What is wrong with supporting local business?

If you look at the normal price on new physical and compare them to digital. Most of the time digital is just as costly if not more. The sales are something you do not control.

In the last few years, I lost more digital only games than I have lost physical.

@wiouds

I have not experienced DD being just as expensive than physical. A caveat though, I very rarely by games at launch. I am usually so busy with other things in life that I play a year behind everyone else. For example, I just bought Far Cry 3 this past December on Steam. I think I paid maybe $10 (could have been less).

You do not control the sales, but they are fairly predictable, especially when it comes to Steam, Amazon, GOG, etc. As far as losing games, i do not think have lost a DD game, but maybe you can expand on what you meant. I am just curious.

#44 Posted by bowchicka07 (1075 posts) -

A physical collection of game just looks more impressive than a digital collection. On the plus side with physical copies is you get the manual, sometimes cool art work, promos, free live, and maps to some games. I know the world is going digital to preserve more materials and make everything more on demand. I just don't think CDs are obsolete yet. Vinyls and tapes of course but I still buy music CDs (not itunes) and I almost always buy the physical copies of games. When people see my collection of both it's a portrayal of my style. I just feel like digital doesn't have that personal aspect IMO.

#45 Edited by wiouds (5257 posts) -

@stizzal13 said:

@wiouds said:

I am careful with the digital system. For every good point about digital there is something bad about it.

DD still have the middle men and worse off is that they have even more power. After reading the EULA it is even more scary. The worse one is steam's. The whole supporting the developer is a joke. I find it hard to believe that they give any more to the developers. What is wrong with supporting local business?

If you look at the normal price on new physical and compare them to digital. Most of the time digital is just as costly if not more. The sales are something you do not control.

In the last few years, I lost more digital only games than I have lost physical.

@wiouds

I have not experienced DD being just as expensive than physical. A caveat though, I very rarely by games at launch. I am usually so busy with other things in life that I play a year behind everyone else. For example, I just bought Far Cry 3 this past December on Steam. I think I paid maybe $10 (could have been less).

You do not control the sales, but they are fairly predictable, especially when it comes to Steam, Amazon, GOG, etc. As far as losing games, i do not think have lost a DD game, but maybe you can expand on what you meant. I am just curious.

As I said I am not looking at the sales price of the game but the normal price of the game. I have gone to stores and found the game for a lower price than that of the Digital stores.

It was a smaller DD system and shut down their system so the games are worthless.

#46 Edited by RealJaysonguy (219 posts) -

@stizzal13 said:

@realjaysonguy said:

The day Valve goes out of business is the day I lose a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, it's not happening any time soon, if ever. But stranger things have happened. Tell somebody in 1990 that Circuit City wouldn't be forever, and you'd get about the same reaction you'd get by telling someone Valve won't be around forever.

The longer I can buy physical copies, the more games I'll be able to play when the downloadable interface we use now becomes obsolete, and it will. Steam won't be relevant forever, and how Newell and friends deal with that eventual change will make a big impact on a lot of people's gaming libraries.

@realjaysonguy I agree. It appears that Valve will not be going anywhere in the near-term, but even if Valve ceased to exist as a corporation, its assets would be purchased by another company. Just as Circuit City's assets were purchased by Systemax.

If Valve ever went out of business, somebody would assuredly purchase their assets, yes, but I'd be very wary of counting on a new company to spend money protecting the digital property of the customers of a failed company. I'm not sure about the legality of it, but I'm not entirely sure they would have any obligation to make Steam games playable. I would hedge my bets there's something buried in the Steam agreement that Valve or any other company has the right to deny access to your library for any reason. There's fine print rules like that in almost every agreement.

#47 Edited by wiouds (5257 posts) -

@realjaysonguy said:

@stizzal13 said:

@realjaysonguy said:

The day Valve goes out of business is the day I lose a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, it's not happening any time soon, if ever. But stranger things have happened. Tell somebody in 1990 that Circuit City wouldn't be forever, and you'd get about the same reaction you'd get by telling someone Valve won't be around forever.

The longer I can buy physical copies, the more games I'll be able to play when the downloadable interface we use now becomes obsolete, and it will. Steam won't be relevant forever, and how Newell and friends deal with that eventual change will make a big impact on a lot of people's gaming libraries.

@realjaysonguy I agree. It appears that Valve will not be going anywhere in the near-term, but even if Valve ceased to exist as a corporation, its assets would be purchased by another company. Just as Circuit City's assets were purchased by Systemax.

If Valve ever went out of business, somebody would assuredly purchase their assets, yes, but I'd be very wary of counting on a new company to spend money protecting the digital property of the customers of a failed company. I'm not sure about the legality of it, but I'm not entirely sure they would have any obligation to make Steam games playable. I would hedge my bets there's something buried in the Steam agreement that Valve or any other company has the right to deny access to your library for any reason. There's fine print rules like that in almost every agreement.

In Stream's EULA, They do hold the rights to remove your account at any time and for any reason and there is nothing you can do. They also have the right that if they allow for selling of digital item they have the right take any amount from that trade.

The nicest EULA is from EA's origin with the write of a 90 day written dispute to overturn a decision that was made.

Also remember you are not buying anything from them. You pay for the right to play the game. they also maintain the legal right to remove that right from you. Meaing if they want to they can legally not allow you to play the game.

#48 Posted by pyro1245 (873 posts) -

@Gargus said:

@pyro1245 said:

.......

The amount of oil used is virtually non exsistant since its a very small amount used. Its not the only chemical used. Although as you obviously don't know blu rays disc use even less oil because they use a organic compound in them, and blu rays since they have more space on them cut down on the use of oil because a dvd movie compilation that once used 4 dvds or a game that once came on 2 discs now only comes on one. So today oil consumption because of physical discs is actually smaller than it used to be and it will continue to shrink as more organic materials are introduced.

Disc based mediums are slow but it is a one time install and your done. If you honestly are making a case against having to install a game ONE TIME and spend a few extra minutes waiting then you have serious issues and have become a spoiled instant gratification baby. Not to mention you still have to download and install your digital games the first. So your argument of it being faster somehow goes right out the window. Infact youre completely wrong. Lets have a race. Ill buy call of duty ghosts from a retail store, you buy the digital version and I will put my game disc in the same time you start downloading it and lets see who is playing it first.

No you don't have to go a store to pick it. Its called delivery, you know if you buy something at amazon they delivery it to your house? A lot of times when you pre order with amazon they do release delivery. No it doesn't cost anything extra and you know a lot of sites offer free delivery, you just chose to ignore this for your argument. I waited years for the diablo 3 expansion, if I have to wait an extra 2 or 3 days after it releases to get it then I think I can wait.

When you back up your games to your hard drive youre wasting money on the physical media to do so. So in the end you pay a lot more because you spend money on hard drives just to save your game to. Oh and since you mentioned oil wasting before on discs youre wasting some more valuable, silver. A good amount of silver goes into a hard drive and oh my goodness it isn't renewable as was your case for oil. And I doubt you have the knowledge or skills to crack a game completely on your own even if half the world wasn't underwater. And I can play all of my disc games even if half the world is underwater, I pull the game out and put it, done.

If you lose games then that's your fault. Seriously how do you "lose a game"? Ive got thousands of games and never lost one in my life. Its either in my system, or it is where it goes when not playing. If you lend it out and someone keeps it, again that's your fault.

You sound kinda angry. Here's what I think:

We make a lot of discs, it's just a waste of resources as they are not really necessary anymore. Get a flash drive, they are reusable.

How about you go buy COD and I won't; but if I did I would be done downloading it by the time you got back from the store.

If you had a digital copy of diablo 3 you could already download 90% of the assets for the expansion, as they are already available. Effectively letting you play it as soon as it's released.

Hard drives are never a waste. My whole game library doesn't even take up half of my 2TB. Less of a waste than my library's disc-equivalent for sure. Also since when did you need to be a cracker to get a hold of a crack for a game? sounds like you're just making arguments for argument's sake.

How do you lose a game? misplace it. I guess I'll never be as meticulous about my games as you. And I don't have to be :) I can make copies 'pon copies, even put them on those old burnable blue-rays if I wanted.

I know you'll be alright once we go all digital, just take a chill pill until then.

#49 Posted by stizzal13 (602 posts) -

@wiouds said:

@realjaysonguy said:

@stizzal13 said:

@realjaysonguy said:

The day Valve goes out of business is the day I lose a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, it's not happening any time soon, if ever. But stranger things have happened. Tell somebody in 1990 that Circuit City wouldn't be forever, and you'd get about the same reaction you'd get by telling someone Valve won't be around forever.

The longer I can buy physical copies, the more games I'll be able to play when the downloadable interface we use now becomes obsolete, and it will. Steam won't be relevant forever, and how Newell and friends deal with that eventual change will make a big impact on a lot of people's gaming libraries.

@realjaysonguy I agree. It appears that Valve will not be going anywhere in the near-term, but even if Valve ceased to exist as a corporation, its assets would be purchased by another company. Just as Circuit City's assets were purchased by Systemax.

If Valve ever went out of business, somebody would assuredly purchase their assets, yes, but I'd be very wary of counting on a new company to spend money protecting the digital property of the customers of a failed company. I'm not sure about the legality of it, but I'm not entirely sure they would have any obligation to make Steam games playable. I would hedge my bets there's something buried in the Steam agreement that Valve or any other company has the right to deny access to your library for any reason. There's fine print rules like that in almost every agreement.

In Stream's EULA, They do hold the rights to remove your account at any time and for any reason and there is nothing you can do. They also have the right that if they allow for selling of digital item they have the right take any amount from that trade.

The nicest EULA is from EA's origin with the write of a 90 day written dispute to overturn a decision that was made.

Also remember you are not buying anything from them. You pay for the right to play the game. they also maintain the legal right to remove that right from you. Meaing if they want to they can legally not allow you to play the game.

All this discussion about DD has driven me to read Steam's EULA. You can read it here.

Basically, like you said, you are just purchasing a license to use the software. Valve can revoke that right based on certain actions of the user or even if Valve ceases to be. Nothing too surprising I suppose.

I can definitely understand how some people might be scared by that, but I will stay the course.