Okay let's see what this 3rd Strike fuss is about...

Alright, so many of you have raved about it here and my cousin is actually a fan (though he's bad at most games), so I decided to go ahead and get one on Amazon new for around $30, while it sells for $30 used at gamestop.

Watching many of the videos, the game seems intense. Intense and overwhelming. I'm having trouble with Street Fighter 2 against computers, so I'm thinking I'll probably be swamped in SF3.

and this tier thing doesn't appeal to me. Yun and his genjei jin... I don't think it's fun getting your can thrown in the air 15 times. I want to use the lesser used characters, but they seem really weak. Sean is ranked the lowest of the low and the person I want to use, Q, seems hard to use. The most popular fighters I've seen on videos is Yun, Chun-Li, Ken, Makoto, Dudley and Urien.

Yep, so I'm a 3S nub and I'm getting the game within this weekend. I'd like any basic tips or suggestions on getting to "good" status as fast as possible.

When I'm playing a game like Soul Calibur, I know what to do. The guy is spamming A moves? Go for quicker moves. Sidestepping? Use wide attacks, etc. But in SF, I have no idea. Some moves are just "good" or something, you need to "poke" and jump-in. You have to know some combos... My head is asploding already.

So yea... you people, DarkCatalyst, Shakura(?), whoever, I want your words. 

3rd Strike is a good game. I'm better at MvC 2 than my cousin, but in 3rd Strike I wipe the floor with him. Basically, 3rd requires some time and practice. Get used to a fighter, and you'll eventually be able to through the easily.  

I also wonder how well skills in this game translate to say Marvel Capcom 2 or Capcom SNK 2.
Revelade

Capcom vs. SNK 2 requires more skill to master.  

Wow, you actually caught me with an internet connection.  That was a bit of a crap shoot in the last couple months.

Any character, save Sean, can compete in 3rd Strike.  Yes, the Yuns/Chunlis/Kens of the world will have an easier time of it, but there are tiers in just about any fighting game, and the ones in 3S aren't really that far off of each other.

Q eats souls if played right, but the US has shied away from him since the game released in 99.  He's more of a Japanese/Canadian thing from what I've seen.  Same goes for Twelve (a really fun character to watch at high levels).

Now, although I consider this the greatest game ever printed, with no exaggeration or hyperbole whatsoever in my tone, I'm not really qualified to teach anyone much of anything about it.

That being said, you can safely go ahead and learn Q, and if you put some time and effort into learning him, you can actually murder some pretty good players who just never bothered learning to fight Q (there are more of them than you'd imagine).

Another character you may consider learning is Oro.  He's stupidly good when played right, but he doesn't have a win button like that trinity of Chunli/Yun/Ken, and his design disinterests some of the players who get into mid-tier characters.  I had an Oro player at a couple of my tournaments two years ago and the guy was nuts.  I never figured him out, and he even gave our top player (a Gouki) a run for his money.

If and when I get back into really hardcore 3S (unlikely, I'm sad to report), I want to add Necro to my list of characters.

I also wonder how well skills in this game translate to say Marvel Capcom 2 or Capcom SNK 2.
Revelade

Marvel really is a game unto itself, and really has no real transferrable skills to/from any other title save perhaps the Guilty Gear series (and even that's stretching it a bit).

Capcom vs SNK 2, on the other hand, has a very firm foundation in the Street Fighter series (whereas Marvel is just a loose offshoot).  It doesn't have the same flow as 3S, but there are a lot of things that did carry over, that you'll notice when going from game to game.

Q is definitely a great character to use. As DC said, the tiers within this game doesn't really matter unless you are playing Sean. I personally use Q as my main character in SF3:TS.Kreatzion

Sean Matsuda = Dan Hibiki.  It's a real shame, too, considering he was originally slated to be the only shoto in the entire Street Fighter III series. 

I am an Ibuki player myself.  I personally don't buy into the "top tier" concept at all, since it's not the character that will win the matches, but the skill of the player that controls the character.  I never even heard of the concept until about a year ago on these forums.  Just continue to practice and find a character that fits your style of play.  Once you have that down, try to learn the other characters moves and tendencies, in other words: Study your opponents. 

I am an Ibuki player myself. I personally don't buy into the "top tier" concept at all, since it's not the character that will win the matches, but the skill of the player that controls the character. I never even heard of the concept until about a year ago on these forums. Just continue to practice and find a character that fits your style of play. Once you have that down, try to learn the other characters moves and tendencies, in other words: Study your opponents.Spirit_of_87

Tiers are real. In any game not called Karate Champ (in which there is only one character to play), there are discrepancies between characters, and those discrepancies WILL create better results for some characters over others. The trick for developers is to contain those differences and keep them from creating overwhelming matchups (like Yoshimitsu vs Yun-Seong in SoulCalibur II, or Mileena vs Jax in Mortal Kombat II).

Make no mistake, skill matters, but when players are of equal skill and playing different characters, there will be advantages and disadvantages based purely on character selection.

Wow today.

So I'm bored and I'm thinking about SF. I look up Capcom versus SNK 2 on gamestop and I find 1 used for $30. Eh I say. Then I see it on Amazon and it's pretty expensive there. So I decide to drive 20 miles or so to get that game. I get lost, but I manage to get it. I come back happy.

I then run the game on my used PS2 and... my joysticks don't work. No buttons, nothing. Great.

So is it the PS2 then? The sticks work fine on my cube. I did in fact have CvS2 on cube, but I could not map the buttons on the joystick right and the cube controller was horrendous for the game. It turns out only 5 buttons can be mapped on the joystick. So I thought a PS2 CvS2 would remedy the problems, but now the stick doesn't work at all.

I'm having trouble with Street Fighter 2 against computers, so I'm thinking I'll probably be swamped in SF3.Revelade

You shouldn't be taking how well you do against CPU as a way measure your skill, especially SF2's retardly difficult AI.

I'd like any basic tips or suggestions on getting to "good" status as fast as possible.Revelade

Shoryuken
Video-Opera

I also wonder how well skills in this game translate to say Marvel Capcom 2 or Capcom SNK 2.
Revelade

The way you control space in MvC2 is very different since you have so many characters with beams and other crazy moves that cover most of the screen, and also because of assists. Also there's a greater emphasis on rushdown, traps, etc.
CvS2 has the poke based ground gameplay but it doesn't have kara throws and because timing for parries is different (less strict) P-groove doesn't have as much guess as 3S. Also, roll cancels and CCs make a lot of difference when it comes to poking and baiting moves.

I am an Ibuki player myself.  I personally don't buy into the "top tier" concept at all, since it's not the character that will win the matches, but the skill of the player that controls the character.  I never even heard of the concept until about a year ago on these forums.  Just continue to practice and find a character that fits your ****of play.  Once you have that down, try to learn the other characters moves and tendencies, in other words: Study your opponents. Spirit_of_87

Tiers only matter in high level play. Tiers don't matter if you're playing local scrubs.
What tier list mean is that certain characters are more likely to win thatn others (eg: how good a character's moves are, how many good/bad match-ups that character has, etc). It has nothing to do with player skill. It's possible to win with low tier characters but it takes a lot more work.

Wow today.

So I'm bored and I'm thinking about SF. I look up Capcom versus SNK 2 on gamestop and I find 1 used for $30. Eh I say. Then I see it on Amazon and it's pretty expensive there. So I decide to drive 20 miles or so to get that game. I get lost, but I manage to get it. I come back happy.

I then run the game on my used PS2 and... my joysticks don't work. No buttons, nothing. Great.

So is it the PS2 then? The sticks work fine on my cube. I did in fact have CvS2 on cube, but I could not map the buttons on the joystick right and the cube controller was horrendous for the game. It turns out only 5 buttons can be mapped on the joystick. So I thought a PS2 CvS2 would remedy the problems, but now the stick doesn't work at all.Revelade

If you're using the Pelican universal stick, maybe it fried the PS2 rumble ports. Other controllers should work fine but the Pelican stick won't since it powers up through the rumble part of the controller port.

It came! Yesterday!

That's what my cousin told me.

I come over to his house and I get the sticks and... it works. Sony craftmanship, some PS2's read joysticks, others don't... sigh.

So I choose Q and he chooses Yang. He gets pretty good damage on me. My opinion on Q is that he's very slow and he doesn't have a good variety of specials. He does have the charging thing, that looks cool mind you, but then he just has that grab and that wailing of the arms thing...

So I'm getting my can handed to me, until I realize how to pull off these charge attacks. Then I get a little better. But what's ridiculous is that my cousin's sister picks chun-li and spams the attack buttons... and it's effective. I'm doing my charge move and two of chuns kicks does the same damage. Wow.

Then I realize that my hard kick button isn't working, so I have to remap the buttons. Thankfully there is 8.

Another thing is that we are "sharing" the game. That means I pu $20 into the game and he only put $8. I figured this would be the way to go, since fighting games, even 3S, is cheese without a human opponent. But he asks for a lot of favors. The other day he was drunk and he wanted me to drive him to del taco. Then he makes a big deal about where I park the car, if I park it 5 feet away from his house, he complains he has to walk to his house...

So I get a real feeling he's an **** and that's where the 3S is...

Okay, well 3S is fun and looks great. Actually, it does look blocky, but we are playing it on an HD TV without the proper cables. The moves are easy to do, well apart from Hugo's super I, which requires 2 360's... grr. But yea, I can pretty much do any move. Maybe I need to work on doing them faster though.

Lessons learned:

You're forcing me to buy a new PS2, thanks Sony.

Don't buy games with someone you can't stand.

Capcom games are hard to find.

Good and bad news. and questions.

The good news is that my joysticks work on OTHER PS2s. The bad news is that on one of my sticks, moving left sometimes does not work and on the other stick, one of the buttons gets stuck a lot. And it's very painful to see my friends abusing my sticks.

So I'm left with a PS2 that reads CvS2 at least, but my sticks can't be played on that...

I have a copy of CvS2 and my cousin and I share SF3S.

I'm looking at amazon and I come upon this:

Looks pretty sexy, but the question is... is it any better than the PS2 pad? Well one thing that's right is that two buttons are mapped on the face, so no more shoulders... Although now it's harder to press two punches together... Anyway, I picked up a chunli version for $15. It should arrive within a week or so.

Arg, I sold my cube version of CvS2 a while ago and now I kind of want it back... But it can't be found anywhere... gah. I'd rather have the cube version, because it looks cleaner, I have more games for the cube and I have a controller converter from ps2 to cube.

So let's see...

- another SF pad: $15

- another SF pad: $15, another converter $10, cube copy of CvS2 $20

Ok so my questions...

What do you guys prefer as your SF pad? A controller or a stick? The default PS2 pad is making my thumb sore, my left-right movements turn into jumps sometimes...

Ok, for SF3, this is getting ridiculous, if my cousin's sister can do very well with chunli after mashing, chun must be extremely good in comp play. I'm using Q and he's slow, but he's fun. I'm getting the grab, ex slide move and the roundhouse kick combo down a little.

For CvS2, I'm liking C-Guile. Sonic booms, flash kicks... I love his level 3 special, but his flash kick special is tough.

What I've realized is that the games I dreaded for "work" is actually fun. Sure it's hard, but the sense of accomplishment when you DO pull it off is great. It's almost like I'm "training" myself to play. 

Screw the GC version of CvS2.  It's the EO version that ditched roll cancelling, so basically it's not a true version of CvS2.  Same holds up for the Xbox version - terrible decision to use EO for the Xbox Live version. 

Sticks are universally superior to gamepads, but the Street Fighter pad is pretty damn solid overall.  Make sure you use your fingers for the buttons though, not your thumbs.

Can't help you with Chunli.  She really is that good.

Guile is pretty solid in CvS2, and he's actually fun to play in it, not boring like his early Street Fighter II incarnations (aggro aggro aggro, trap trap trap, win win win...).  I roll him in my K-Groove team quite a bit.  I prefer Sonic Hurricane out of his supers, though.

I thought roll-canceling was considered a glitch? That's probably why they removed it on the EO versions, which I assume came later. Well, it's not like my friends would do it or even know about it.

I'd like it on the cube, so I don't have to lug another system with me when I come over houses. I also have something against Sony... their products actually. 

I thought roll-canceling was considered a glitch? That's probably why they removed it on the EO versions, which I assume came later. Well, it's not like my friends would do it or even know about it.

I'd like it on the cube, so I don't have to lug another system with me when I come over houses. I also have something against Sony... their products actually.Revelade

Roll cancelling is a glitch that is widely used in competitive play.  It was in the arcade, Dreamcast, and PS2 versions of CvS2, but not GameCube or Xbox, which is why you never see EO rolled out at tournaments. 

If your a SF fan I'm pretty sure you've already seen this but just incase you haven't... watch all 3 rounds the ending is CRAZY.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pS5peqApgUA&mode=related&search=

[QUOTE="Revelade"]

I thought roll-canceling was considered a glitch? That's probably why they removed it on the EO versions, which I assume came later. Well, it's not like my friends would do it or even know about it.

I'd like it on the cube, so I don't have to lug another system with me when I come over houses. I also have something against Sony... their products actually.DarkCatalyst

Roll cancelling is a glitch that is widely used in competitive play.  It was in the arcade, Dreamcast, and PS2 versions of CvS2, but not GameCube or Xbox, which is why you never see EO rolled out at tournaments. 

Hmm, you figure a glitch would be frowned apon, and not encoraged. I mean, it's not like they didn't fix the problem, use the fixed one.

[QUOTE="DarkCatalyst"][QUOTE="Revelade"]

I thought roll-canceling was considered a glitch? That's probably why they removed it on the EO versions, which I assume came later. Well, it's not like my friends would do it or even know about it.

I'd like it on the cube, so I don't have to lug another system with me when I come over houses. I also have something against Sony... their products actually.jks22112

Roll cancelling is a glitch that is widely used in competitive play. It was in the arcade, Dreamcast, and PS2 versions of CvS2, but not GameCube or Xbox, which is why you never see EO rolled out at tournaments.

Hmm, you figure a glitch would be frowned apon, and not encoraged. I mean, it's not like they didn't fix the problem, use the fixed one.

1 - EO did not make an appearance in the arcades, and arcade machines were still the exclusive form of fighting game competition as of the early part of this decade.  Console-exclusive fighters were essentially laughingstocks (look at Dead or Alive 3, Tao Feng, Kakuto Chojin, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, etc...none of which were even given passing consideration for tournament play).  They were ruled out long before their problems were even discovered, because they had no arcade cabinets for tournament use.

2 - EO includes EO-ism/GC-ism, which is frowned upon far more than any glitch as it makes the game far too easy to pick up (and even removes charging from attacks that required it before).

3 - This is the fighting community we're talking about.  Unlike the FPS crowd, which buys into the concept of "how it was meant to be played," the fighting crowd uses whatever's there.  Look at Marvel - for all its glitches and infinites, the only thing that ever really got banned was the Gambit glitch.  You've gotten on me about MK bashing before, but here's a perfect example of the reality; in cases like MK where the glitches and imbalances ruin the game (I mean really RUIN it), the fighting community won't ban the problems, they'll blame the developer (in this case Ed Boon for allowing the problems.

4 - The US community actually tried banning the roll cancel when it was first discovered by Ohnuki.  Two things happened.  First, the Japanese players refused to attend Evolution 2002 unless the rule was overturned (which, naturally, it was at that point).  Second, US players who were unprepared to face the roll cancel got slaughtered at Evo by the Japanese who had integrated it into their game.  It took a long time to recover from that.

5 - Capcom vs SNK 2, it has been proven, is LESS balanced without roll cancelling, since the RC stands up very well to the top tier and the turtle tier.

Nice rebuttal.

Well, I still like Ninty more.

Anyway, about the control scheme... The PS2 pad is frustrating me. I'm trying to do Guile's sonic hurricane and on the stick motions, he jumps. Would the anniversary edition controllers work any better?

I can't use the joystick because I assume my rumble connection is fried on the PS2... If stick is the way to go, do you know how to fix this? Or worst case, I would have to sell my soul to Sowny and buy another crapstation 2.

I've never been into a console game like this before. It's all about mastery.