Nintendo Warns of Weak Wii U Sales

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#1 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/technology/nintendo-warns-of-weak-wii-u-sales.html?_r=0

No real surprises here but Nintendo is forecasting that Wii U sales are coming in under their earlier projections and are essentially admitting the console is off to a slow start.

With the new Sony and MS consoles looming I still think Nintendo needs to make a serious price cut sooner rather than later. While such a slash is a hard pill to swallow, it certainly helped to propel 3DS sales when they were lagging.

And if Sony and MS announce consoles that manage to stay under 400 dollars respectively, Nintendo is going to be effectively screwed without some major shifts in marketing, pricing and strategy.

 

#2 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

#3 Posted by UpInFlames (13279 posts) -

It's the worst Nintendo console to date and this is going to result in their worst generation yet. They're going from top to rock bottom at an alarming rate and I'd be lying if I said that I'm not enjoying seeing them fall.

#4 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

S0lidSnake
There is something called games. The 3DS has them Vita not so much.
#5 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

dvader654

There is something called games. The 3DS has them Vita not so much.

I think the Vita (which I don't own) has a healthy smattering of software but I also think many of the games are redundant given their availability on the PS3.

 

#6 Posted by JML897 (33125 posts) -

Nintendo Saturn

#7 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

dvader654

There is something called games. The 3DS has them Vita not so much.

Vita has plenty of games. All I see on the 3DS are Mario, a zelda remake, a Kid Icuras game and a Resident Evil spinoff that even you didnt care for much.

Like Grammaton said, the problem with vita is that it has games available on consoles. It does have games. They are called multiplatform titles. :P

#8 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

It's the worst Nintendo console to date and this is going to result in their worst generation yet. They're going from top to rock bottom at an alarming rate and I'd be lying if I said that I'm not enjoying seeing them fall.

UpInFlames

I am predicting 20-25 million units sold just like the Gamecube.

#9 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

On a related note, 3rd parties (even those that strongly supported the Wii U at launch) are avoiding the system like the plague.

Developers are blaming the controller, but as the article points out, that doesn't make sense. More likely slow hardware sales coupled with poor sales of core launch games without Mario in the title has convinced developers that the Wii U isn't worth the effort of porting to.

http://www.destructoid.com/developers-what-s-your-issue-with-the-wii-u-gamepad--243371.phtml

#10 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -
It was just a terrible idea for a console and I am glad it is biting them in the ass. Maybe next time they will release a system with specs that aren't five years old and rely heavily on a gimmick controller.
#11 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="dvader654"][QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

S0lidSnake

There is something called games. The 3DS has them Vita not so much.

Vita has plenty of games. All I see on the 3DS are Mario, a zelda remake, a Kid Icuras game and a Resident Evil spinoff that even you didnt care for much.

Like Grammaton said, the problem with vita is that it has games available on consoles. It does have games. They are called multiplatform titles. :P

Where is this I don't like Revelations thing coming from, I blame GME. Revelations is fantastic, it is a true RE game. I just think the campaign was a weaker one in the RE series. But it has Raid mode which more than makes up for it. It is an excellent portable game which now will be a great game to pick up. Also yes a Nintendo system is going to have Nintendo games, that is why you buy them. Unlike Sony these are well made usually original takes on the franchises made by the same devs, not B and C teams version of the exact same game you play on consoles. I understand Sony is going for the portable PS3 thing which is cool and for members with plus its great cause I get a whole library of games I would never pay full price for. MM seems to be the only dev taking the vita seriously. In terms of hardware the 3ds is a joke in comparison. Believe me I wish the vita would get all the support 3ds gets.
#12 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

On a related note, 3rd parties (even those that strongly supported the Wii U at launch) are avoiding the system like the plague.

Developers are blaming the controller, but as the article points out, that doesn't make sense. More likely slow hardware sales coupled with poor sales of core launch games without Mario in the title has convinced developers that the Wii U isn't worth the effort of porting to.

http://www.destructoid.com/developers-what-s-your-issue-with-the-wii-u-gamepad--243371.phtml

CarnageHeart

lol already? I figured it would easily get ports for at least a year until next gen consoles arrive. This thing is such a trainwreck. :lol: I am enjoying this so much. F*cking Reggie and Iwata, they deserve this for sh*tting on us year after year at E3. If MS brings in Usher again this year or have another Kinect demo with two dudes screaming while pretend playing football, I am going to wish the same on them. Hope MS learns from this. I sincerely hope they do. 

#13 Posted by burgeg (3599 posts) -

lol! This thing had the worst marketing campaign of all time. Even Sony didn't f*ck up this bad. They had two years to market it as a new console, yet even the press that attended their press conferences couldn't tell the difference b/w the Wii and the Wii U.

Part of me thinks it's because the games looked so much like current gen games, no one could tell it was a new console. But then again, the Wii games looked last gen as well. I am just glad releasing last gen consoles and handhelds with gimmicks finally came back to bite Nintendo in the ass. They f*cking deserve it.

The 3DS becoming a success after the price drop really pisses me off because no way an antique handheld like that should be selling that well. No second analog stick, terrible PS2 quality graphics, awful 3D, single touch screens. I guess you put Nintendo on a handheld and a Mario game on it and it will sell like hot cakes. Meanwhile Sony's amazing Vita slowly dies like a heroine addicted whore.

S0lidSnake

So much truth here. What's even sadder is that I'm actually one of those idiots that bought a 3DS. Stupidest system purchase ever, and I regret my purchase more than I've ever regretted buying a game system in my life.

#14 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

 Where is this I don't like Revelations thing coming from, I blame GME. Revelations is fantastic, it is a true RE game. I just think the campaign was a weaker one in the RE series. But it has Raid mode which more than makes up for it. It is an excellent portable game which now will be a great game to pick up. Also yes a Nintendo system is going to have Nintendo games, that is why you buy them. Unlike Sony these are well made usually original takes on the franchises made by the same devs, not B and C teams version of the exact same game you play on consoles. I understand Sony is going for the portable PS3 thing which is cool and for members with plus its great cause I get a whole library of games I would never pay full price for. MM seems to be the only dev taking the vita seriously. In terms of hardware the 3ds is a joke in comparison. Believe me I wish the vita would get all the support 3ds gets.dvader654

lol I swear it was just this week where you said you wouldnt recommend it or something to that effect.

While I agree completely with you on the fact that Sony's B and C teams are handling Vita games, isnt the same thing happening with the 3DS? I heard no one talking about the new Mario that supposedly came out last year. Was it a Mario Kart game?  How do you know it wasnt Nintendo's B or C team that made that game? The Zelda remaster was just a straight port with 3D added. Anyone could've done that. Kid Icuras is the only major exclusive other than Revelations.... that's two games in nearly two years. Where is the Retro 3DS game? What's Myamoto done on the 3DS? Why isnt the Zelda team working on a 3DS Zelda game instead of remaking a ten year old game on the Wii U? 

They're both guilty of it, you can argue that the quality of these 3DS exclusives is better than the stuff Sony's put out, but IMO Uncharted, Unit 13, PS All Stars, Gravity Rush, LBP Vita are all good to great games, and then you have all these multiplats like Fifa, MLB, SFXTekken, Mortal Kombat, Sly Cooper that are nearly identical to the console versions. All fantastic games. 

#15 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="dvader654"] Where is this I don't like Revelations thing coming from, I blame GME. Revelations is fantastic, it is a true RE game. I just think the campaign was a weaker one in the RE series. But it has Raid mode which more than makes up for it. It is an excellent portable game which now will be a great game to pick up. Also yes a Nintendo system is going to have Nintendo games, that is why you buy them. Unlike Sony these are well made usually original takes on the franchises made by the same devs, not B and C teams version of the exact same game you play on consoles. I understand Sony is going for the portable PS3 thing which is cool and for members with plus its great cause I get a whole library of games I would never pay full price for. MM seems to be the only dev taking the vita seriously. In terms of hardware the 3ds is a joke in comparison. Believe me I wish the vita would get all the support 3ds gets.S0lidSnake

lol I swear it was just this week where you said you wouldnt recommend it or something to that effect.

While I agree completely with you on the fact that Sony's B and C teams are handling Vita games, isnt the same thing happening with the 3DS? I heard no one talking about the new Mario that supposedly came out last year. Was it a Mario Kart game?  How do you know it wasnt Nintendo's B or C team that made that game? The Zelda remaster was just a straight port with 3D added. Anyone could've done that. Kid Icuras is the only major exclusive other than Revelations.... that's two games in nearly two years. Where is the Retro 3DS game? What's Myamoto done on the 3DS? Why isnt the Zelda team working on a 3DS Zelda game instead of remaking a ten year old game on the Wii U? 

They're both guilty of it, you can argue that the quality of these 3DS exclusives is better than the stuff Sony's put out, but IMO Uncharted, Unit 13, PS All Stars, Gravity Rush, LBP Vita are all good to great games, and then you have all these multiplats like Fifa, MLB, SFXTekken, Mortal Kombat, Sly Cooper that are nearly identical to the console versions. All fantastic games. 

The Mario games were still EAD now they have different teams working in different games but its all the same developer. The Zelda game is coming. Retro won't be making a portable game. Just got paper Mario from intelligent systems. Smash bros will be done in tandem with the console version. Nintendo treats their portables like a totally separate systems with full support. Sony seems to thing the portables are like add ons. I said the price is a bit steep for Revelations, I thought it would be like $30 or less. Still most people will enjoy it more than RE6.
#16 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -
More on topic, my wii u is gathering tons of dust.
#17 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

More on topic, my wii u is gathering tons of dust.dvader654

Same. I downloaded the Zombie Wii U demo, and dont even feel like playing it. Rayman needs to come out tomorrow.

#18 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -
lol Vader you said it had the worst campaign of any of the main games, that it was overpriced at $50, and that the only reason to own the game is some lame ass other mode called raid mode. All of this sounds like a complete failure of a game to me. Don't you remember any of this? o_0
#19 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

>> two E3 shows that confused people more than informed them

>> bad/non-existent marketing campaign

>> release the system with a rehash 2D Mario, gimmick-ladden zombie game, party game and some late, watered-down 3rd party ports

>> push your "heavy-hitter" titles to the next year, start loosing key 3rd party support left and right

>> complain the system doesn't sell well

 

Common Nintendo, you know better than this...

Even your recent Nintendo direct was better than the last few E3 shows you had...

 

edit: and I didn't even touch the hardware/software issues like slow OS/loading/updates, slow clocked CPU, backwards online, ect.

#20 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

I have all these thoughts on Nintendo. So many, in fact, that it is hard (impossible perhaps) to summarize them all. However, here are a few:

I feel that the market is reaching back towards normalcy after a really bad bout of popculture-itis. The Wii was a machine that sold in spite of every reason in the world why it shouldn't have. The Wii was a threat to the business (I felt) because it tried (and succeeded for a while) to sell the notion that conventional gaming experiences sucked and needed to be changed through reverse evolution, and had that continued, I feel it would have fvcked the whole industry even more than it already has. 

I feel remorseful, because the Wii U is more of a conventional machine than the Wii, and it's doing worse. However, I don't think a Wii 2 would have done any better. Just as Kinect hasn't helped Microsoft (their sales have dropped, not increased since its release), I think the market has moved on to tablets and cell phones, and that consoles have to come back and make the case for CONSOLES again. Not multimedia devices. Not movie spooling. Not music streamers. GAME CONSOLES. That is NOT a shameful term, it's a proud term, with a rich history that has survived for a long time. 

I feel glad, because machines with gimmicks and no games should not be rewarded with stellar sales. Content has driven sales and predicted generational dominance forever prior to the Wii. That long established trend looks set to resume (although we can't say for sure -- Microsoft has its head so far up its ass that it could make its entire thrust be motion based, and well, Sony IS Sony) and the best third-party offerings and exclusives will again determine who succeeds and who doesn't. There are really good signs of a market correction occurring, and well, that works for me just fine.


I feel vindicated, because outside of a few specialty products, games should be built around concepts, NOT CONTROLLERS. Especially controllers that are limiting or otherwise don't work. This was the hardest thing for me to understand last generation... I witnessed smart people who love games trying to convince themselves that using an inferior control method was more fun. All the way back to the 2600, there was a reason that the paddles were only used in an ancillary capacity, and that was because they SUCKED for 95 percent of the games on the system (and brother, there were a LOT of games on the 2600). It's also the same reason that ROB the robot never took off, and that was because ROB's presence didn't add anything to the game. It was a bullshlt gimmick. Trackballs. Racing wheels. And on. And on. And on. There was a reason why they were called peripherals. Last generation, we witnessed the peripheral become the standard, and look at the results. 

So yeah, there's a few. I'm done with Nintendo, and I'm not surprised to see the sun setting on the Blue Ocean era, but there is also a part of me that grew up with the company and knows what they are capable of when they are at their best, and I only wish that one day that company could resurface again. 

#21 Posted by Bigboi500 (29611 posts) -

There's no need for a price cut until the other console actually release. Slow sales now are a given with a lack of software. By the end of year holiday season, sales will pick up with more games getting released. I'm sure Nintendo is planning a flurry of titles, and possibly a price cut to counter the new console releases.

 

#22 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

There's no need for a price cut until the other console actually release. Slow sales now are a given with a lack of software. By the end of year holiday season, sales will pick up with more games getting released. I'm sure Nintendo is planning a flurry of titles, and possibly a price cut to counter the new console releases.

 

Bigboi500

Not necessarily. Economics states that a demand curve exists based on what consumers would purchase of a good at a range of prices. If there is weak demand now, the market will correct itself by forcing Nintendo to drop its price, thus causing demand to rise until supply and demand are at an equilibrium. Nintendo has just admitted that supply exceeded demand, and that means price HAS to come down, otherwise there will be a ripple effect going all the way back to Nintendo -- people who are working on assembly lines making Wii U's will be laid off, as would marketing people, internal staff, and executives. Nintendo doesn't want that to happen -- no company does. Thus they will lower the price to shift the demand curve out and reach equilibrium. The only question is when they do it, not if. 

Further, the economic theory of substitution comes into play when the new systems launch. Substitutes are products that can easily replace other products. Take coffee and tea, for example. Once the other systems launch, the theory of substitutes will come into play, and there will be another dynamic at play beyond just the money aspect. If a buyer has a choice between a Wii U at $350 with few games, and a brand new PS4 or Xbox at around the same price with few games, that further complicates the scenario for the Wii U. Nintendo should be laser focused on gaining as much marketshare as it can prior to that dynamic occurring. 

#23 Posted by JML897 (33125 posts) -

There's no need for a price cut until the other console actually release. Slow sales now are a given with a lack of software. By the end of year holiday season, sales will pick up with more games getting released. I'm sure Nintendo is planning a flurry of titles, and possibly a price cut to counter the new console releases.

 

Bigboi500
idk, I don't remember the last time I've seen enthusiasm this low for a supposedly "next gen" console. I feel like this is more than a "new console that doesn't have many games" problem
#24 Posted by Bigboi500 (29611 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

There's no need for a price cut until the other console actually release. Slow sales now are a given with a lack of software. By the end of year holiday season, sales will pick up with more games getting released. I'm sure Nintendo is planning a flurry of titles, and possibly a price cut to counter the new console releases.

 

Shame-usBlackley

Not necessarily. Economics states that a demand curve exists based on what consumers would purchase of a good at a range of prices. If there is weak demand now, the market will correct itself by forcing Nintendo to drop its price, thus causing demand to rise until supply and demand are at an equilibrium. Nintendo has just admitted that supply exceeded demand, and that means price HAS to come down, otherwise there will be a ripple effect going all the way back to Nintendo -- people who are working on assembly lines making Wii U's will be laid off. Nintendo doesn't want that to happen -- no company does. Thus they will lower the price to stimulate demand. 

Further, the economic theory of substitution comes into play when the new systems launch. Substitutes are products that can easily replace other products. Take coffee and tea, for example. Once the other systems launch, the theory of substitutes will come into play, and there will be another dynamic at play beyond just the money aspect. If a buyer has a choice between a Wii U at $350 with few games, and a brand new PS4 or Xbox at around the same price with few games, that further complicates the scenario for the Wii U. Nintendo should be laser focused on gaining as much marketshare as it can prior to that dynamic occurring. 

Since it just released and there's no "new gadget" competition right now, there's no need for a price reduction just yet. Look at Vita, that thing is selling slower than anything in the gaming industry and Sony, in all of their financial turmoil, hasn't felt the need to reduce the price because they still think software can save it.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

#25 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

There's no need for a price cut until the other console actually release. Slow sales now are a given with a lack of software. By the end of year holiday season, sales will pick up with more games getting released. I'm sure Nintendo is planning a flurry of titles, and possibly a price cut to counter the new console releases.

 

Bigboi500

Not necessarily. Economics states that a demand curve exists based on what consumers would purchase of a good at a range of prices. If there is weak demand now, the market will correct itself by forcing Nintendo to drop its price, thus causing demand to rise until supply and demand are at an equilibrium. Nintendo has just admitted that supply exceeded demand, and that means price HAS to come down, otherwise there will be a ripple effect going all the way back to Nintendo -- people who are working on assembly lines making Wii U's will be laid off. Nintendo doesn't want that to happen -- no company does. Thus they will lower the price to stimulate demand. 

Further, the economic theory of substitution comes into play when the new systems launch. Substitutes are products that can easily replace other products. Take coffee and tea, for example. Once the other systems launch, the theory of substitutes will come into play, and there will be another dynamic at play beyond just the money aspect. If a buyer has a choice between a Wii U at $350 with few games, and a brand new PS4 or Xbox at around the same price with few games, that further complicates the scenario for the Wii U. Nintendo should be laser focused on gaining as much marketshare as it can prior to that dynamic occurring. 

Since it just released and there's no "new gadget" competition right now, there's no need for a price reduction just yet. Look at Vita, that thing is selling slower than anything in the gaming industry and Sony, in all of their financial turmoil, hasn't felt the need to reduce the price because they still think software can save it.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

And the Vita is failing, yes? In fact, I'd argue that it is already pretty much dead, and was when it launched. However, there is a price that would bring the system back to life, Sony's bottom line just forbids them from going as low as that price dictates to get there. So they would rather let the system die slowly and pray. The Vita is different though, because Sony has many more revenue avenues. Nintendo ONLY makes games. If this system doesn't take off, it could kill them. 

Look at it this way: why do car companies put several thousand dollar incentives on new cars? To reach equilibrium. They realize that having last year's cars sitting on the lot hurts the company in a myriad of ways, so they stimulate demand through pricing to move inventory. Now, cars are a little different because new versions hit every year and they cost a lot more, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if you're selling cars or kethup packets to restaurants. 

And I would wager that the PS4 and next Xbox are very close to the cost of the high end Wii U, but we'll have to wait and see. 

#26 Posted by iHarlequin (1789 posts) -

Sad. I loved the Wii - and the games that used its hardware properly (Metroid Prime still is the best controlled "FPS" (more of an "FPA", but the shooting is similar) on consoles, and I'm not even going to start on how good Skyward Sword felt) - and was hoping the Wii U would continue with this ground breaking tradition, though, to be fair, the touchpad on a controller is -much- less innovative than a fully-fledged motion-control system.

#27 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

Bigboi500

And you are living in a state of abject denial if you think either Sony or MS are going to release consoles significantly over the 400 dollar price point given the disastrous launch of the PS3.  

Given the recent rumored (and looking more and more accurate) specs released regarding both systems, it is clear they are using off-the-shelf components to minimize cost while still delivering a significant graphical leap from the current gen. Both companies know that anything much above 400 bucks will alienate all but the hardcore crowd so I expect both systems to launch under that price, even if they take some losses in the process.

#28 Posted by Bigboi500 (29611 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

Grammaton-Cleric

And you are living in a state of abject denial if you think either Sony or MS are going to release consoles significantly over the 400 dollar price point given the disastrous launch of the PS3.  

Given the recent rumored (and looking more and more accurate) specs released regarding both systems, it is clear they are using off-the-shelf components to minimize cost while still delivering a significant graphical leap from the current gen. Both companies know that anything much above 400 bucks will alienate all but the hardcore crowd so I expect both systems to launch under that price, even if they take some losses in the process.

No, I'd say you're the one living there if you think Sony is going to pack all that hardware with a tablet controller all for $400 or less. Knowing Sony they'll want an OLED screen similar to Vita's, and have very large HDD drives. I'm guessing the PS4 will be no less than $500 for the cheaper version, if infact they plan on copying Nintendo's controller.

#29 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -
Do you guys really think Sony will do a tablet controller? I mean I certainly hope not.
#30 Posted by D3s7rUc71oN (5180 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

Bigboi500

And you are living in a state of abject denial if you think either Sony or MS are going to release consoles significantly over the 400 dollar price point given the disastrous launch of the PS3.  

Given the recent rumored (and looking more and more accurate) specs released regarding both systems, it is clear they are using off-the-shelf components to minimize cost while still delivering a significant graphical leap from the current gen. Both companies know that anything much above 400 bucks will alienate all but the hardcore crowd so I expect both systems to launch under that price, even if they take some losses in the process.

No, I'd say you're the one living there if you think Sony is going to pack all that hardware with a tablet controller all for $400 or less. Knowing Sony they'll want an OLED screen similar to Vita's, and have very large HDD drives. I'm guessing the PS4 will be no less than $500 for the cheaper version, if infact they plan on copying Nintendo's controller.

The big difference is Sony and MS are willing to take a loss on each console sold, unlike Nintendo who rips you off on the hardware. 

#31 Posted by YoshiYogurt (5974 posts) -

It's the worst Nintendo console to date and this is going to result in their worst generation yet. They're going from top to rock bottom at an alarming rate and I'd be lying if I said that I'm not enjoying seeing them fall.

UpInFlames
I was going to say **** you, but nice GY!BE emblem thing.
#32 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

Do you guys really think Sony will do a tablet controller? I mean I certainly hope not.GodModeEnabled

I'm thinking this is just a dumb rumor that has gotten passed around. At least that's what I'm counting on. 

Sony can make some dumb moves but I'm sure as hell they aren't going to pull a repeat of the PS3's $600 launch price. Besides that, the Dualshock has been the mainstay controller for Sony so long I have a hard time seeing them really changing that, as much as I would like them to at least make some slightly changes to it (make the handles of the controller more ergonomic, and have analog stick positions like the 360's controller). A tablet controller would probably end up jacking the overall price of the console up a solid $90-$100, and I just don't see Sony doing it. 

I'm betting on a $399 price at launch for the PS4 and next Xbox, and *MAYBE* $450 for the PS4 if Sony decides to throw in some extra power into the console, but I think even that price point is a stretch. I'd be shocked if anything launched higher than that.

I know Nintendo fans consider what I'll say next blasphemy, but I think they should at least consider bringing some of their exclusives 3rd party. The market is changing, and it's hard to deny Nintendo has adapted to these changes the worst out of the big three. Smartphones and tablets may have taken some of the market away from consoles, but they've pretty much obliterated the handheld market, where Nintendo used to be dominant for so long. Can you imagine how well a legitimate Pokemon game would sell on iOS and Android? Or a cross-platform Mario title, available on Microsoft and Sony's systems as well? Nintendo has the games down pat, and I seriously think they would be better off as a big 3rd party publisher rather than making their own hardware. Again, I know people will vehemently oppose this idea but I believe it's the route Nintendo may have to take eventually.

#33 Posted by c_rakestraw (14615 posts) -

Do you guys really think Sony will do a tablet controller? I mean I certainly hope not.GodModeEnabled

I doubt it. If anything, the Vita will probably be available as an alternate controller option by default. There's already a few PS3 games that do that, yeah? Know they talked about it at one point.

#34 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

Can you imagine how well a legitimate Pokemon game would sell on iOS and Android? Or a cross-platform Mario title, available on Microsoft and Sony's systems as well? Nintendo has the games down pat, and I seriously think they would be better off as a big 3rd party publisher rather than making their own hardware. Again, I know people will vehemently oppose this idea but I believe it's the route Nintendo may have to take eventually.

Vari3ty

 

Nah.

IOS/Android gamers wouldn't pay full price for a game and the MS/Sony gamers hate kiddy games, which is what Nintendo makes.

 

#35 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

I have all these thoughts on Nintendo. So many, in fact, that it is hard (impossible perhaps) to summarize them all. However, here are a few:

I feel that the market is reaching back towards normalcy after a really bad bout of popculture-itis. The Wii was a machine that sold in spite of every reason in the world why it shouldn't have. The Wii was a threat to the business (I felt) because it tried (and succeeded for a while) to sell the notion that conventional gaming experiences sucked and needed to be changed through reverse evolution, and had that continued, I feel it would have fvcked the whole industry even more than it already has. 

I feel remorseful, because the Wii U is more of a conventional machine than the Wii, and it's doing worse. However, I don't think a Wii 2 would have done any better. Just as Kinect hasn't helped Microsoft (their sales have dropped, not increased since its release), I think the market has moved on to tablets and cell phones, and that consoles have to come back and make the case for CONSOLES again. Not multimedia devices. Not movie spooling. Not music streamers. GAME CONSOLES. That is NOT a shameful term, it's a proud term, with a rich history that has survived for a long time. 

I feel glad, because machines with gimmicks and no games should not be rewarded with stellar sales. Content has driven sales and predicted generational dominance forever prior to the Wii. That long established trend looks set to resume (although we can't say for sure -- Microsoft has its head so far up its ass that it could make its entire thrust be motion based, and well, Sony IS Sony) and the best third-party offerings and exclusives will again determine who succeeds and who doesn't. There are really good signs of a market correction occurring, and well, that works for me just fine.


I feel vindicated, because outside of a few specialty products, games should be built around concepts, NOT CONTROLLERS. Especially controllers that are limiting or otherwise don't work. This was the hardest thing for me to understand last generation... I witnessed smart people who love games trying to convince themselves that using an inferior control method was more fun. All the way back to the 2600, there was a reason that the paddles were only used in an ancillary capacity, and that was because they SUCKED for 95 percent of the games on the system (and brother, there were a LOT of games on the 2600). It's also the same reason that ROB the robot never took off, and that was because ROB's presence didn't add anything to the game. It was a bullshlt gimmick. Trackballs. Racing wheels. And on. And on. And on. There was a reason why they were called peripherals. Last generation, we witnessed the peripheral become the standard, and look at the results. 

So yeah, there's a few. I'm done with Nintendo, and I'm not surprised to see the sun setting on the Blue Ocean era, but there is also a part of me that grew up with the company and knows what they are capable of when they are at their best, and I only wish that one day that company could resurface again. 

Shame-usBlackley

Great post. Well said. Consoles shoudln't be ashamed to be just video game players. I have a feeling all this multimedia BS Microsoft is inclduing in its system at the expense of more gaming power is going to blow up in their face. Most TVs nowadays come with web apps like web browsers, netflix and all kinds of stuff. Every tablet and phone has better apps than MS can provide. Why would you boot up a console, buy a $60 a year membership on top of your Netflix and Hulu subs? It may work, but I am increasingly skeptical of this approach. 

#36 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]Do you guys really think Sony will do a tablet controller? I mean I certainly hope not.c_rake

I doubt it. If anything, the Vita will probably be available as an alternate controller option by default. There's already a few PS3 games that do that, yeah? Know they talked about it at one point.

I should've made a thread about this. No, Sony is not doing a tablet controller. They just reworked the Dual Shock 3 to include some kind of touchpad and maybe added some LEDs so that it could communicate with the camera included in every PS4. 

Yes, every PS4 will come with a camera (likely EyeToy), a revamped dual shock and a move controller. It's been all but confirmed. 

#37 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

You're kidding yourself if you think the PS4 will be sold at "around the same price" especially if they too have a tablet controller similar the Wii U's.

Bigboi500

And you are living in a state of abject denial if you think either Sony or MS are going to release consoles significantly over the 400 dollar price point given the disastrous launch of the PS3.  

Given the recent rumored (and looking more and more accurate) specs released regarding both systems, it is clear they are using off-the-shelf components to minimize cost while still delivering a significant graphical leap from the current gen. Both companies know that anything much above 400 bucks will alienate all but the hardcore crowd so I expect both systems to launch under that price, even if they take some losses in the process.

No, I'd say you're the one living there if you think Sony is going to pack all that hardware with a tablet controller all for $400 or less. Knowing Sony they'll want an OLED screen similar to Vita's, and have very large HDD drives. I'm guessing the PS4 will be no less than $500 for the cheaper version, if infact they plan on copying Nintendo's controller.

The tablet is an unconfirmed and entirely unsubstantiated rumor at this point but hey, if that makes Nintendo apologists feels a bit better, feel free to indulge in all manner of baseless conjecture. People like you were also rather adamant that the PS4 and new XB weren't going to be significantly more powerful than current gen systems and yet by all accounts that is looking to be entirely untrue.

Regardless, Sony took a firm throttling over the entry price of the PS3 so unless they are entirely incapable of learning from past transgressions then the notion that they would offer a console at 500 dollars is asinine.

And, as others have pointed out, both Sony and MS will take a loss on consoles to get the games out so either way that last sliver of hope for Nintendophiles is gone.

Also, it is flatly adorable that you would accuse Sony of copying Nintendo's controller as if the Wii U created tablet gaming. Clearly, Nintendo aped a widespread and overtly popular tech trend, which is a far cry from creating it. I'm also curious why Sony would want to copy a controller and system that is currently failing at retail?

#38 Posted by c_rakestraw (14615 posts) -

I should've made a thread about this. No, Sony is not doing a tablet controller. They just reworked the Dual Shock 3 to include some kind of touchpad and maybe added some LEDs so that it could communicate with the camera included in every PS4. 

Yes, every PS4 will come with a camera (likely EyeToy), a revamped dual shock and a move controller. It's been all but confirmed. 

S0lidSnake

So this patent is somewhat likely to be true, then?

#39 Posted by Bigboi500 (29611 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

And you are living in a state of abject denial if you think either Sony or MS are going to release consoles significantly over the 400 dollar price point given the disastrous launch of the PS3.  

Given the recent rumored (and looking more and more accurate) specs released regarding both systems, it is clear they are using off-the-shelf components to minimize cost while still delivering a significant graphical leap from the current gen. Both companies know that anything much above 400 bucks will alienate all but the hardcore crowd so I expect both systems to launch under that price, even if they take some losses in the process.

Grammaton-Cleric

No, I'd say you're the one living there if you think Sony is going to pack all that hardware with a tablet controller all for $400 or less. Knowing Sony they'll want an OLED screen similar to Vita's, and have very large HDD drives. I'm guessing the PS4 will be no less than $500 for the cheaper version, if infact they plan on copying Nintendo's controller.

The tablet is an unconfirmed and entirely unsubstantiated rumor at this point but hey, if that makes Nintendo apologists feels a bit better, feel free to indulge in all manner of baseless conjecture. People like you were also rather adamant that the PS4 and new XB weren't going to be significantly more powerful than current gen systems and yet by all accounts that is looking to be entirely untrue.

Regardless, Sony took a firm throttling over the entry price of the PS3 so unless they are entirely incapable of learning from past transgressions then the notion that they would offer a console at 500 dollars is asinine.

And, as others have pointed out, both Sony and MS will take a loss on consoles to get the games out so either way that last sliver of hope for Nintendophiles is gone.

Everything is unsubstantiated at this point. Did Sony learn from thier mistakes with PSP and apply them with Vita? And LOL, if I'm a "Nintendo apologist" and "Nintendophile", then that clearly makes you a HD twin console ass-kisser. I'm getting very tired of your off-handed insults every time we talk about consoles. If you can't tone them down then please stop quoting me and trying to have conversations with me in the future. I didn't come to this forum to have a sh*t-slinging fanboy war with posters.

#40 Posted by GodModeEnabled (15314 posts) -
I didn't come to this forum to have a sh*t-slinging fanboy war with posters.Bigboi500
Aren't you a system wars poster? I don't remember ever seeing you here over the last several years.
#41 Posted by Bigboi500 (29611 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I didn't come to this forum to have a sh*t-slinging fanboy war with posters.GodModeEnabled
Aren't you a system wars poster? I don't remember ever seeing you here over the last several years.

I've been coming here for a long time now.

#42 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18404 posts) -
You think they're bad now, wait for E3 when the new xbox is announced
#43 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

Everything is unsubstantiated at this point. Did Sony learn from thier mistakes with PSP and apply them with Vita? And LOL, if I'm a "Nintendo apologist" and "Nintendophile", then that clearly makes you a HD twin console ass-kisser. I'm getting very tired of your off-handed insults every time we talk about consoles. If you can't tone them down then please stop quoting me and trying to have conversations with me in the future. I didn't come to this forum to have a sh*t-slinging fanboy war with posters.

Bigboi500

Your response to Shamus was snarky, as was your response to me. I've read plenty of your musings and you clearly have a hard-on for Nintendo and that zealous love clouds your ability to read the current situation objectively, which is why you are clinging to some remote hope that Sony launches the PS4 with an excessively expensive price tag.

As to your pejoratives, not only do I have absolutely no concern over how you view me, anybody who has ever read my posts knows I'm agnostic when it comes to this medium. While I have my favorites, those predilections are predicated entirely on the quality of software rather than some banal, mind-numbing brand loyalty rooted in some pitiful nostalgic devotion to a company. I have no problem pointing out the many flaws of the HD Twins, though, in response to your juvenile proclamation, I would assert that those systems are far more deserving of veneration than the Wii.

And I really don't much care what you are tired of because you came into MY thread to defend your favorite little company. I can't recall ever insulting you or showing you the type of overt discourtesy you have demonstrated here but if you choose to discontinue any future correspondence I'll manage to pick up the pieces and go on.  

#44 Posted by Kravyn81 (9438 posts) -

With the new Sony and MS consoles looming I still think Nintendo needs to make a serious price cut sooner rather than later. While such a slash is a hard pill to swallow, it certainly helped to propel 3DS sales when they were lagging.Grammaton-Cleric

I'm sure it has nothing to do with high profile devs publicly speaking out saying how they're not bringing their games to the console. Nothing to do at all. Price drops help, but what helps more is actually have games people want to play to make buying the console worth it.

#45 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I didn't come to this forum to have a sh*t-slinging fanboy war with posters.Bigboi500

Aren't you a system wars poster? I don't remember ever seeing you here over the last several years.

I've been coming here for a long time now.

I'll actually vouch for him as being a regular.

This hostility is new, however.

#46 Posted by c_rakestraw (14615 posts) -

This hostility is new, however.Grammaton-Cleric

Not really. These Nintendo topics tend to bring some measure of hostility on both sides of these debates given the divisive nature of the company's direction.

#47 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

With the new Sony and MS consoles looming I still think Nintendo needs to make a serious price cut sooner rather than later. While such a slash is a hard pill to swallow, it certainly helped to propel 3DS sales when they were lagging.Kravyn81

I'm sure it has nothing to do with high profile devs publicly speaking out saying how they're not bringing their games to the console. Nothing to do at all. Price drops help, but what helps more is actually have games people want to play to make buying the console worth it.

Well I agree entirely but apparently, Nintendo thinks gimmicks alone will move systems.

To be fair, for a time, they were correct.

But fads die. (Thank Christ)

#48 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]This hostility is new, however.c_rake

Not really. These Nintendo topics tend to bring some measure of hostility on both sides of these debates given the divisive nature of the company's direction.

True enough.

To be fair I get pretty heated when I see people making the same excuses that I've been reading for fifteen years regarding Nintendo so perhaps you are right.

The irony is, I really would like Nintendo to return to their former glory. I just don't think it will happen.

#49 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18404 posts) -

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]This hostility is new, however.Grammaton-Cleric

Not really. These Nintendo topics tend to bring some measure of hostility on both sides of these debates given the divisive nature of the company's direction.

True enough.

To be fair I get pretty heated when I see people making the same excuses that I've been reading for fifteen years regarding Nintendo so perhaps you are right.

The irony is, I really would like Nintendo to return to their former glory. I just don't think it will happen.

Once you sell out, you can never go home again
#50 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

Not really. These Nintendo topics tend to bring some measure of hostility on both sides of these debates given the divisive nature of the company's direction.

Black_Knight_00

True enough.

To be fair I get pretty heated when I see people making the same excuses that I've been reading for fifteen years regarding Nintendo so perhaps you are right.

The irony is, I really would like Nintendo to return to their former glory. I just don't think it will happen.

Once you sell out, you can never go home again

Christ that is a sad sentiment.

And yet, you may be right.