My Moral Compass (Feedbackula thoughts)

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who's like this. Let me know if you're the same (at all).

During the end to the latest Feedbackula on the GTA V review, Johnny essentially laments that he's likely contributed to the comment section's ugliness on GameSpot. The whole bit is a serious statement, as he's mainly referencing all of the hate Carolyn Petit has received for giving the game a near perfect score, 9/10.

As of right now, the comments are about to reach 21,000 on the GTA V review. Most of these comments are hate filled; a good portion are even personal attacks on Carolyn, but you probably already know that.

This type of reaction from the community didn't surprise me at all, did it surprise you? The Last of Us getting an 8 got a lot of juvenile reactions as well, if you care to remember.

But before the Last of Us review, do you know what was getting the brunt of the community's rage? The Xbox One. The majority of this community was (and still is) enraged over the Xbox One.

When reviewing the history of what has made this community angry, do you ever make any comparisons, like I do? Because I arrive at a guilt by proximity of opinions. 

Like, the same community that went insane over the Xbox One is the same community that's tossing literally thousands of hateful, ugly comments about Carolyn being a transsexual in the GTA V review.

That reaction towards Carolyn is what made me question my initial hate for the Xbox One. I mean, if I'm in the same crowd as a group of people who will tell a reviewer that she's not a woman all because they're mad about a game that didn't get a 10/10, something has to be wrong, right?

As of now, I have the Xbox One pre-ordered (along with the PS4), and although the aforementioned realization that came from my comparison above wasn't fully responsible for my pre-ordering of the Xbox One, it was a factor in my decision. 

Does anyone feel similarly?

Just because some people behave like savages it doesn't mean the complaint is wrong. People who send hatemail to public figures should get out of my gene pool, but it doesn't automatically make the topic irrelevant.

What's sad is that people compained about the score and not the most important fact: that a game which sells itself as being as much offensive to everyone as it possibly can has been criticised by a professional reviewer for doing just that.

I should better explain myself before someone comes in here and tries to layeth the smacketh down on me.

In and of itself, a comparison like the one I listed in my first post isn't enough. It is quite possible that a community who acts completely juvenile (and ugly) towards one particular issue might act in the correct and intelligent way with another issue.

Just because this community has and will continue to fun of Carolyn Petit over her sexuality doesn't mean the Xbox One wasn't worthy of disdain. With that said, I still question my values/opinions if they happen to fall in line with a huge portion of this community, or any person whom I don't see eye to eye with, morally.

That's kind of what I'm asking all of you - are you the same way at all?

I should better explain myself before someone comes in here and tries to layeth the smacketh down on me.

In and of itself, a comparison like the one I listed in my first post isn't enough. It is quite possible that a community who acts completely juvenile (and ugly) towards one particular issue might act in the correct and intelligent way with another issue.

Just because this community has and will continue to fun of Carolyn Petit over her sexuality doesn't mean the Xbox One wasn't worthy of disdain. With that said, I still question my values/opinions if they happen to fall in line with a huge portion of this community, or any person whom I don't see eye to eye with, morally.

That's kind of what I'm asking all of you - are you the same way at all?

experience_fade

People got mad that she didn't give the game a 10/10 before they themselves played it themselves to see what it was like. Idiots. On that note, I thought a 9/10 was a generous score after playing it for about 30 hours now. It's a long ways away from a 10/10. .CaptainSofa

I don't know how much of it was the score and how much of it was the commentary on misogyny. Personally, I couldn't care less about the score as I have no interest in playing the game, but seeing those comments did make me roll my eyes. It's not even about whether she's right or wrong on the issue anymore; it's about being dragged into a social commentary seemingly everytime you click on a link directed to one of her articles.

I don't think she's always right - i thought her article on women in the Last of Us was laughable, her opinions unsupported. But maybe she's right here with GTA. I don't know. What I do know is that she's quickly become like that pundit on your news channel of choice that's always playing the race card. Do racism and sexism exist in the world? Of course. Does everything that occurs between someone who's one color and someone's who's another or between someone who's a man and someone who's a woman boil down to prejudice or bias? Of course not. Maybe if she'd pick her battles more carefully, she'd incur less vitriol. I'm sympathetic to the lack of alternate voices in game development, but still have a hard time taking anything she writes on the subject seriously.

Also, anyone who's visited this site for any length of time could have told you this was going to happen if you let this writer review this particular game. It's almost as if someone at GS wanted this to happen. Controversy sells.

[QUOTE="experience_fade"]

I should better explain myself before someone comes in here and tries to layeth the smacketh down on me.

In and of itself, a comparison like the one I listed in my first post isn't enough. It is quite possible that a community who acts completely juvenile (and ugly) towards one particular issue might act in the correct and intelligent way with another issue.

Just because this community has and will continue to fun of Carolyn Petit over her sexuality doesn't mean the Xbox One wasn't worthy of disdain. With that said, I still question my values/opinions if they happen to fall in line with a huge portion of this community, or any person whom I don't see eye to eye with, morally.

That's kind of what I'm asking all of you - are you the same way at all?

Black_Knight_00

Not at all. I was never very upset with the Xbox One. I was, for a short period of time, going to hold off on getting one, though I always knew eventually I would buy it (just maybe at a later date).

But I did feel a stigma (internally) once I pre-ordered it. If you look at the various articles of Mark Walton or Tom McShea over the past couple of months, for instance, is as if you'd have to be the worst gamer of all time to find the Xbox One appealing in any way. 

But that's not why I made this thread. I just find it interesting that a huge portion of this community blasted the Xbox One and made fun of Carolyn Petit for being a transsexual, that's all.

But that's not why I made this thread. I just find it interesting that a huge portion of this community blasted the Xbox One and made fun of Carolyn Petit for being a transsexual, that's all.experience_fade

Even if/when the complaints are justified, no offense to anyone, people in general are just lame and pathetic entitled douches. This applies to friends and family as well. We human beings as a species are the most vile creatures to ever exist.

People always need something to bitch about. It's nothing new, especially in America, land of the free and home of the haters of homosexuals and transexuals.

I think that with all the hype around GTA V, a lot of people felt like it should've gotten a 10/10, and when it didn't get that score, they got upset, cuz they were like "how could anyone disagree with my opinion on the game". And not realizing that other people can have different opinions.

But what I have really never gotten about people and reviews is this: Why get upset over what other people think of a game? What matters is if YOU like it or not. I've played and liked some games that some reviewers gave bad scores to. I've played and disliked some games that reviewers have given good scores to. I'm sure you all have as well. Do I ever feel the need to bitch about game reviews? Nope.

I've always admired Carolyn's guts for being herself in an industry dominated by closed-mindedness (even though I often feel that gender issues get brought up by all far too often and used as a tool at times, and I don't think the review community expressed similar concern over Hot Coffee back in the day). However, I also hate the Xbone, and haven't been shy about letting people know I hate it. I also admire Kevin for being himself. And believe me, I've been very expressive about disagreeing with him on more than one occassion (MGS4 was NOT a 10, dude, not even close), but it has nothing to do with who he sleeps with.

I think it's ridiculous to think the two are related in any way. One is an inanimate object, not even the amorous equivalent of a blow up doll. The other is a living, breathing person with feelings. I think anyone who compares the way the two are treated needs his head checked, as that's more insulting than those who are using gender as a bludgeon because they're angry about a review. If you're getting butt-hurt over someone trashing a piece of plastic you intend to buy and then trying to tie that action to those of a bigot... I don't know what to tell you. A game console is not a person... when that line blurs, it's time to go get checked out.

That's my take. 

The other thing I will say is that anyone who screams about a score for a game they haven't even played is a horse's ass. 

Like, the same community that went insane over the Xbox One is the same community that's tossing literally thousands of hateful, ugly comments about Carolyn being a transsexual in the GTA V review.

experience_fade

If you've participated in any of the discussions on sexism or other issues of diversity you will find there is no shortage of ignorant, insensitive gamers out there.  They don't represent the entire gaming community, however.  I suppose it's not all that surprising that games attract their share of selfish, insensitive people who only care about what they want and don't care about anyone else.  I suppose a 9/10 rating can be very threatening to someone whose virtual world is more real to them than the real world.

The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.chrisrooR

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.BranKetra

The people who flamed gave the ones with genuinely solid criticism of the review a bad image. What I'm talking about is that Carolyn should not have gotten her opinions about one immoral aspect of a completely immoral game confused with the logic of how to make a game skillfully. The poeple who flamed may have seen that, despite simply saying hateful things. Don't feel bad just because you sometimes find yourself in the same crowd. If you're not saying mean things, then don't feel bad about your POV.

The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.chrisrooR

Misogyny is an issue of discrimination, whereas the other aspects of the game are not.  Perhaps she is beyond fed up with sexism and other forms of discrimination in games, as am I.  From that standpoint, the issue of misogyny is different from the other issues you listed.  Beyond that, I have yet to find a perfect game, so I think you'd have trouble making the case for it to be deserving of a perfect 10.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.capaho

Misogyny is an issue of discrimination, whereas the other aspects of the game are not.  Perhaps she is beyond fed up with sexism and other forms of discrimination in games, as am I.  From that standpoint, the issue of misogyny is different from the other issues you listed.  Beyond that, I have yet to find a perfect game, so I think you'd have trouble making the case for it to be deserving of a perfect 10.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.capaho

Misogyny is an issue of discrimination, whereas the other aspects of the game are not.  Perhaps she is beyond fed up with sexism and other forms of discrimination in games, as am I.  From that standpoint, the issue of misogyny is different from the other issues you listed.  Beyond that, I have yet to find a perfect game, so I think you'd have trouble making the case for it to be deserving of a perfect 10.

the readers encompass a large group and people on either side of the argument are addressing the other as a whole rather than with any nuance. yes, some people do take a hateful stance on the depiction of women in media and some people go to the other extreme and make baseless accusations of hate speech for attention, out of insecurity, or whatever.

i think there is room for good discussion somewhere in the middle but it just needs more time to come to light. people who buy the game on release day are more likely to be avid fans of the series whereas people who are generally less enthused about rockstar's design style are more likely to wait. it's not like every argument for the game's depiction of women has been "f*ck b*tches" ; there are people that are at least approaching it rationally. the bigger problem has been that there hasn't been many voices joining the discussion that aren't serious fans of the series. once the late adopters buy the game, i'm sure there will be actual discussion.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.chrisrooR

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]The complaints are justified, the personal attacks aren't. The comments on misogyny were absolute garbage. The game deserves a perfect 10. If you're going to interject some kind of political agenda in a videogame review, you better be prepared to do it for all of the other potentially offensive content. Where was the complaints of the extreme violence, drug use, stealing...etc. Misogyny is a single issue on a list of issues within the game. To me, the review just ousted Carolyn as unprofessional. She's unable to leave her own political agenda out of her reviews, without considering the other potentially offensive parts of the game as being just as negative.chrisrooR

Of course the difference with Saints Row is that it's a power fantasy game and basically an open world playground in an unrealistic world. Now GTA is a playground too but Rockstar have gone to great lengths too make it detailed and authentic and part of that authenticity I think should include interesting and relatable women. 

There is plenty of racism in the game. But Carolyn isn't as personally invested with racial discrimination as she is LGBT discrimination. I too feel like she needs to keep her personal life out of reviews. I have no problem with the score. But if another staff member from Gamespot who is also LGBT would have reviewed the game! the score would not have been dropped for the games treatment of women. There is nothing wrong with Carolyn trying to bring awareness of the treatment and depiction of women, LGBT individuals, or minorities in video games. But a review is not the place to do it. GoldenElementXL

If it's true that the game is also racist then it doesn't even deserve a 9.  You can't assume that another person who is also LGBT would ignore the misogyny.  I'm not a GS reviewer, but I certainly would never give a game a 10 that was misogynistic, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.  Those issues are story elements that affect the real humans who play the game.  If you're saying that the story elements should not be a factor in the review then you are essentially saying that the story is not relevant.  You can't rate a game strictly on the game mechanics and ignore the story.  It's the story that justifies the gameplay, and dinging a game for unjust story content is appropriate.

The score of 10 is that of its' relation to other games. I find it to be the most entertaining game I've ever played, with the most detail I've ever experienced in a videogame. For those reasons, I would award it a 10. Not to mention the stellar gunplay, driving, customization..etc. All top notch. I think it's just trying too hard to be edgy to cite misogyny as a negative. Sexism and discrimination in games? Give me a break. What about the ultra-muscular scantily clad men present in street fighter? There's a huge double standard when it comes to the 'sexism' present in videogames. Carolyn would have you believe it takes a skewed view of women, when really that skewed view is inclusive of men, women, the religiously devout, southerners...etc. And the consistency in her reviews regarding misogynistic content is poor at best. Where was she about this issue when she reviewed Saints Row? Should we expect game reviewers to start citing political objections as negatives? Or 'too much blood' as a negative? In my opinion, a negative is something that takes away from the overall experience of the game. I'm about 20 hours into GTA V, and I've yet to see anything that's "profoundly misogynistic".

chrisrooR

I haven't played GTA V yet, so I can't comment specifically on your enthusiasm over it.  However, I am starting to see complaints pop up about some of the game mechanics, particularly in how difficult it is to evade the police relative to GTA IV, so I doubt that you will ever be able to get a consensus on your assessment that it deserves a 10.  You should enjoy the game for yourself and not worry about what the professional critics have to say.  The only review I've ever completely agreed with was for Red Dead Redemption.  I thought the reviews for L.A. Noire were so disconnected from reality that they must have been written by zombies, but I would never consider waging a personal campaign against a reviewer who wrote a review I disagreed with.  Ultimately, the only rating I care about is my own, and I don't need the rest of the world to agree with me.  If you are bashing Carolyn simply because you don't like her ratings criteria, then you're being as unreasonable as you accuse her of being.  It was her review to write, not yours.  Get over it.

[QUOTE="GoldenElementXL"]There is plenty of racism in the game. But Carolyn isn't as personally invested with racial discrimination as she is LGBT discrimination. I too feel like she needs to keep her personal life out of reviews. I have no problem with the score. But if another staff member from Gamespot who is also LGBT would have reviewed the game! the score would not have been dropped for the games treatment of women. There is nothing wrong with Carolyn trying to bring awareness of the treatment and depiction of women, LGBT individuals, or minorities in video games. But a review is not the place to do it. capaho

If it's true that the game is also racist then it doesn't even deserve a 9. You can't assume that another person who is also LGBT would ignore the misogyny. I'm not a GS reviewer, but I certainly would never give a game a 10 that was misogynistic, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. Those issues are story elements that affect the real humans who play the game. If you're saying that the story elements should not be a factor in the review then you are essentially saying that the story is not relevant. You can't rate a game strictly on the game mechanics and ignore the story. It's the story that justifies the gameplay, and dinging a game for unjust story content is appropriate.

Yeah, but we're talking about a franchise that really prides itself in being the closest thing games have to movies like Goodfellas. Crime movies often feature protagonists that are morally questionable and often very narrow minded. If racial slurs bother you, better stay away from any mafia stories. Even the comedies feature some level of bigotry. It's authentic. And if you think it's not, try sitting down for thanksgiving with an Italian family like I have all my life.

These characters aren't intended to be sympathetic or role-models. They're criminals. And so, if their life leads them down the path of ethically dubious choices, go figure. Complaining about it in this particular context just seems absurd.

Yeah, but we're talking about a franchise that really prides itself in being the closest thing games have to movies like Goodfellas. Crime movies often feature protagonists that are morally questionable and often very narrow minded. If racial slurs bother you, better stay away from any mafia stories. Even the comedies feature some level of bigotry. It's authentic. And if you think it's not, try sitting down for thanksgiving with an Italian family like I have all my life.

These characters aren't intended to be sympathetic or role-models. They're criminals. And so, if their life leads them down the path of ethically dubious choices, go figure. Complaining about it in this particular context just seems absurd.

Ish_basic

To be clear here, I am not attacking the GTA series, being a fan of it myself.  However, I think the critique of GTA V for being misogynistic is valid and appropriate.  Goodfellas was a fictionalized historical drama based on actual people and events.  GTA V is an over-the-top satirical game.  They could have addressed the anti-social aspects of gangsters in a way that portrayed them accurately with balance coming from other characters in the game.  

Except for the strippers, most of the women in GTA IV were not objectified, they were realistic, believable characters.  The closeted Bruce and the open Gay Tony at least acknowledged the existence of gay people in a way that wasn't particularly derogatory.  I haven't played Saints Row Four, but the women in Saints Row 2 and Saints Row the Third (except for the hookers) were strong characters who held their own against the men.  We've reached a point as a society where I think it is not only appropriate to address disrespectful characterizations in games but necessary.  

The gaming experience is ultimately a personal one for the gamer.  Why would anyone continue to advocate alienating, insulting and disenfranchising anyone who is not a heterosexual white male?  At least, from my own experience as a gamer, it appears that the target demographic is a selfish, insensitive heterosexual white male that game developers are forever eager to exploit for profit.  Your comments regarding Carolyn's review do not help to dispel that stereotype.

They asked for this controversy and they got it. Putting someone who is easily offended on the case of reviewing an offensive game is a waste of everyone's time. It's as if Petit skipped school on the day they taught the importance of recognizing your "target audience" in her writing class. A professional review is supposed to be a little more than personal outlet of disdain - a reviewer is supposed to consider the target audience for the product and decide how well it serves that audience. On Gamespot's management's behalf, it's the equivalent to assigning a JRPG to a reviewer that doesn't like or know anything about Japanese culture and styles of art. The result would be a skewed opinion that serves nobody any value other than to the person who reviewed it.

If I wanted an unprofessional review that judged the game entirely on the user's biases and preconceptions - I'd read the User Review section. It's sad a lot of people here can't tell the difference, but I'm not surprised as most of Gamespot's userbase is likely still in high school. There's absolutely no good reason why content should be watered down to appeal to people that aren't the target audience (people who aren't easily offended). Yet Petit's review indicates that there's a flaw in people's preferences for an offensive game as well as Rockstar's desire to cater to their preferences. Any other professional reviewer would recognize that the content is delivering on its goals and that their product shouldn't be criticized for having a sense of integrity, instead of watering down the content just so it can appeal to everyone.

They asked for this controversy and they got it. Putting someone who is easily offended on the case of reviewing an offensive game is a waste of everyone's time. It's as if Petit skipped school on the day they taught the importance of recognizing your "target audience" in her writing class. A professional review is supposed to be a little more than personal outlet of disdain - a reviewer is supposed to consider the target audience for the product and decide how well it serves that audience. On Gamespot's management's behalf, it's the equivalent to assigning a JRPG to a reviewer that doesn't like or know anything about Japanese culture and styles of art. The result would be a skewed opinion that serves nobody any value other than to the person who reviewed it.

If I wanted an unprofessional review that judged the game entirely on the user's biases and preconceptions - I'd read the User Review section. It's sad a lot of people here can't tell the difference, but I'm not surprised as most of Gamespot's userbase is likely still in high school. There's absolutely no good reason why content should be watered down to appeal to people that aren't the target audience (people who aren't easily offended). Yet Petit's review indicates that there's a flaw in people's preferences for an offensive game as well as Rockstar's desire to cater to their preferences. Any other professional reviewer would recognize that the content is delivering on its goals and that their product shouldn't be criticized for having a sense of integrity, instead of watering down the content just so it can appeal to everyone.

Mcspanky37

Is that satire or are you serious?

I actually really enjoy feedbackula. But when I took a second to think about it- it really is just glorifiying all the idiots who post on this website. Maybe giving them attention isn't a good idea. Although I guiltily love it.

[QUOTE="Mcspanky37"]

They asked for this controversy and they got it. Putting someone who is easily offended on the case of reviewing an offensive game is a waste of everyone's time. It's as if Petit skipped school on the day they taught the importance of recognizing your "target audience" in her writing class. A professional review is supposed to be a little more than personal outlet of disdain - a reviewer is supposed to consider the target audience for the product and decide how well it serves that audience. On Gamespot's management's behalf, it's the equivalent to assigning a JRPG to a reviewer that doesn't like or know anything about Japanese culture and styles of art. The result would be a skewed opinion that serves nobody any value other than to the person who reviewed it.

If I wanted an unprofessional review that judged the game entirely on the user's biases and preconceptions - I'd read the User Review section. It's sad a lot of people here can't tell the difference, but I'm not surprised as most of Gamespot's userbase is likely still in high school. There's absolutely no good reason why content should be watered down to appeal to people that aren't the target audience (people who aren't easily offended). Yet Petit's review indicates that there's a flaw in people's preferences for an offensive game as well as Rockstar's desire to cater to their preferences. Any other professional reviewer would recognize that the content is delivering on its goals and that their product shouldn't be criticized for having a sense of integrity, instead of watering down the content just so it can appeal to everyone.

capaho

Is that satire or are you serious?

I actually really enjoy feedbackula. But when I took a second to think about it- it really is just glorifiying all the idiots who post on this website. Maybe giving them attention isn't a good idea. Although I guiltily love it.

Shmiity

[QUOTE="capaho"]

[QUOTE="Mcspanky37"]

They asked for this controversy and they got it. Putting someone who is easily offended on the case of reviewing an offensive game is a waste of everyone's time. It's as if Petit skipped school on the day they taught the importance of recognizing your "target audience" in her writing class. A professional review is supposed to be a little more than personal outlet of disdain - a reviewer is supposed to consider the target audience for the product and decide how well it serves that audience. On Gamespot's management's behalf, it's the equivalent to assigning a JRPG to a reviewer that doesn't like or know anything about Japanese culture and styles of art. The result would be a skewed opinion that serves nobody any value other than to the person who reviewed it.

If I wanted an unprofessional review that judged the game entirely on the user's biases and preconceptions - I'd read the User Review section. It's sad a lot of people here can't tell the difference, but I'm not surprised as most of Gamespot's userbase is likely still in high school. There's absolutely no good reason why content should be watered down to appeal to people that aren't the target audience (people who aren't easily offended). Yet Petit's review indicates that there's a flaw in people's preferences for an offensive game as well as Rockstar's desire to cater to their preferences. Any other professional reviewer would recognize that the content is delivering on its goals and that their product shouldn't be criticized for having a sense of integrity, instead of watering down the content just so it can appeal to everyone.

prokadiri

Is that satire or are you serious?

You lost me on that one.  What are you whining about?

[QUOTE="prokadiri"][QUOTE="capaho"]

Is that satire or are you serious?

capaho

You lost me on that one.  What are you whining about?

[QUOTE="capaho"]

[QUOTE="prokadiri"] Is everybody expected to be a sensitive schoolgirl? You can bitch and whine about video games all you want if it makes you feel a mighty social justice warrior. The rest of us who do not want to censor video games or want everybody to pander to our little fragile feelings will just play video games.Jacanuk

You lost me on that one.  What are you whining about?

a. whats this pathetic attempt at relating the terrible xbox one presented with the problems in the comments section?

b. the last of us, xbox one and gta v reviews got real problems and complains, sadly some people take it to the extreme and even resort to personal attacks. I for one, after playing gta v and seeing the "mysogenistic" complaint from petit cant avoid but think she projected her own personal issues in the review, same with gone home (9.5 for an indie 1h game just because it had a lesbian love story), would i attack her personally? no, but i do think she is not a good reviewer, as for mcshea and last of us, the review was just garbage, he underscores overhyped games wheater they deserve it or not, the reason? who knows.

a. whats this pathetic attempt at relating the terrible xbox one presented with the problems in the comments section?

b. the last of us, xbox one and gta v reviews got real problems and complains, sadly some people take it to the extreme and even resort to personal attacks. I for one, after playing gta v and seeing the "mysogenistic" complaint from petit cant avoid but think she projected her own personal issues in the review, same with gone home (9.5 for an indie 1h game just because it had a lesbian love story), would i attack her personally? no, but i do think she is not a good reviewer, as for mcshea and last of us, the review was just garbage, he underscores overhyped games wheater they deserve it or not, the reason? who knows.

Krelian-co

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="capaho"]

You lost me on that one.  What are you whining about?

prokadiri

Is anyone here naive enough to believe Carolyn and Gamespot did not expect a sh!tstorm over this review?  Everyone knows GTA is misogynist but it is actually a very minor part of the game so why bring so much focus on it?  Because that is what Carolyn does.  It has already been noted that she injects her personal agenda into her reviews so the question is why choose her?

It was Carolyn's decision to include a feminsit rant in a game review and Gamespot's decision to post it.  The result was very predicatble.  I can think of only two reasons: either Gamespot is so liberally idelogical that they believe they should be preaching the game comunity politcal correctness or they did it for the ratings.  I guess there is a third option: they were too dumb to think of the consquences. 

Wahtever the reason it was a mistake but good luck getting them to admit to it.  Professionals should review games as games and leave their personal politics out of it.  Both Carlyn's and Gamespot's reputation are at all time lows.  I sincerely hope they learn from this.

a. whats this pathetic attempt at relating the terrible xbox one presented with the problems in the comments section?

b. the last of us, xbox one and gta v reviews got real problems and complains, sadly some people take it to the extreme and even resort to personal attacks. I for one, after playing gta v and seeing the "mysogenistic" complaint from petit cant avoid but think she projected her own personal issues in the review, same with gone home (9.5 for an indie 1h game just because it had a lesbian love story), would i attack her personally? no, but i do think she is not a good reviewer, as for mcshea and last of us, the review was just garbage, he underscores overhyped games wheater they deserve it or not, the reason? who knows.

Krelian-co

You, like most people in this thread, can't seem to figure out that projecting your own feelings into an analysis is NORMAL for a review. She's not a news anchor, just reporting the facts with an unbiased view. It's HER interpretation of the game; she's a critic, a video game REVIEWER, she has every right to inject her own experiences and feelings into a review, that's kind of the whole point. 

She's not the only one who's found misogyny in GTA V, here are just a few examples.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/21/grand-theft-auto-5-women-misogynistic-violent
http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/20/gta-5-misogyny-teeth-pulling-and-subjectivity/

But after reading your first A) point, I guess I shouldn't have expected you to figure that out. To continue your, and seemingly everyone else's inability to understand the role of a critic, look, the GameSpot community is making news elsewhere on video game websites.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gamers-petition-for-sacking-of-gamespot-writer-who-criticised-gtav-for-misogyny/0121238

From the article above, I quote, "This is why the world thinks video games are all made for silly little boys.

A petition has been started and thankfully subsequently pulled on Change.org calling for the sacking of a GameSpot writer who in her 9/10 Grand Theft Auto V review highlighted the games questionable attitude towards females."

Enough said.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

a. whats this pathetic attempt at relating the terrible xbox one presented with the problems in the comments section?

b. the last of us, xbox one and gta v reviews got real problems and complains, sadly some people take it to the extreme and even resort to personal attacks. I for one, after playing gta v and seeing the "mysogenistic" complaint from petit cant avoid but think she projected her own personal issues in the review, same with gone home (9.5 for an indie 1h game just because it had a lesbian love story), would i attack her personally? no, but i do think she is not a good reviewer, as for mcshea and last of us, the review was just garbage, he underscores overhyped games wheater they deserve it or not, the reason? who knows.

experience_fade

You, like most people in this thread, can't seem to figure out that projecting your own feelings into an analysis is NORMAL for a review. She's not a news anchor, just reporting the facts with an unbiased view. It's HER interpretation of the game; she's a critic, a video game REVIEWER, she has every right to inject her own experiences and feelings into a review, that's kind of the whole point. 

She's not the only one who's found misogyny in GTA V, here are just a few examples.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/21/grand-theft-auto-5-women-misogynistic-violent
http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/20/gta-5-misogyny-teeth-pulling-and-subjectivity/

But after reading your first A) point, I guess I shouldn't have expected you to figure that out. To continue your, and seemingly everyone else's inability to understand the role of a critic, look, the GameSpot community is making news elsewhere on video game websites.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gamers-petition-for-sacking-of-gamespot-writer-who-criticised-gtav-for-misogyny/0121238

From the article above, I quote, "This is why the world thinks video games are all made for silly little boys.

A petition has been started and thankfully subsequently pulled on Change.org calling for the sacking of a GameSpot writer who in her 9/10 Grand Theft Auto V review highlighted the games questionable attitude towards females."

Enough said.

Critics are more than just soapbox authors, sorry dude, you're really underestimating what it actually takes to be a professional critic. Half-assed analysis doesn't belong in a paid review's section, despite people here thinking that should be the case. Example of half-assed analysis in this circumstance: stating the game is only offensive to women and not offensive to everyone equally, when the entire game is rooted in a satirical universe that is supposed to be offensive to everyone. It's as if Petit's brain only tuned into anything that had to comment on the female gender and ignored absolutely everything else offensive about the game.

[QUOTE="experience_fade"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

a. whats this pathetic attempt at relating the terrible xbox one presented with the problems in the comments section?

b. the last of us, xbox one and gta v reviews got real problems and complains, sadly some people take it to the extreme and even resort to personal attacks. I for one, after playing gta v and seeing the "mysogenistic" complaint from petit cant avoid but think she projected her own personal issues in the review, same with gone home (9.5 for an indie 1h game just because it had a lesbian love story), would i attack her personally? no, but i do think she is not a good reviewer, as for mcshea and last of us, the review was just garbage, he underscores overhyped games wheater they deserve it or not, the reason? who knows.

Mcspanky37

You, like most people in this thread, can't seem to figure out that projecting your own feelings into an analysis is NORMAL for a review. She's not a news anchor, just reporting the facts with an unbiased view. It's HER interpretation of the game; she's a critic, a video game REVIEWER, she has every right to inject her own experiences and feelings into a review, that's kind of the whole point. 

She's not the only one who's found misogyny in GTA V, here are just a few examples.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/21/grand-theft-auto-5-women-misogynistic-violent
http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/20/gta-5-misogyny-teeth-pulling-and-subjectivity/

But after reading your first A) point, I guess I shouldn't have expected you to figure that out. To continue your, and seemingly everyone else's inability to understand the role of a critic, look, the GameSpot community is making news elsewhere on video game websites.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gamers-petition-for-sacking-of-gamespot-writer-who-criticised-gtav-for-misogyny/0121238

From the article above, I quote, "This is why the world thinks video games are all made for silly little boys.

A petition has been started and thankfully subsequently pulled on Change.org calling for the sacking of a GameSpot writer who in her 9/10 Grand Theft Auto V review highlighted the games questionable attitude towards females."

Enough said.

Critics are more than just soapbox authors, sorry dude, you're really underestimating what it actually takes to be a professional critic. Half-assed analysis doesn't belong in a paid review's section, despite people here thinking that should be the case. Example of half-assed analysis in this circumstance: stating the game is only offensive to women and not offensive to everyone equally, when the entire game is rooted in a satirical universe that is supposed to be offensive to everyone. It's as if Petit's brain only tuned into anything that had to comment on the female gender and ignored absolutely everything else offensive about the game.

Let me define satire, for you.

Satire - the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Now, let me quote directly from Carolyn's review.

"Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them smell like a bitch. Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to Higher Love by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal."

Now that you know the definition of satire, and understand that, in order for something to be satirical, it must criticise (or expose) stupidity and/or popular societal opinions, maybe you can realize that, according to Carolyn, satire was the last thing obvious in regards to GTA V's blatant, consistent sexist shticks.

Even if you weren't to agree with me, as I suspect you won't, who cares? Isn't that the point? You're being absurd for taking it to this level in the first place. Quit crying.

Is anyone here naive enough to believe Carolyn and Gamespot did not expect a sh!tstorm over this review?  Everyone knows GTA is misogynist but it is actually a very minor part of the game so why bring so much focus on it?  Because that is what Carolyn does.  It has already been noted that she injects her personal agenda into her reviews so the question is why choose her?

It was Carolyn's decision to include a feminsit rant in a game review and Gamespot's decision to post it.  The result was very predicatble.  I can think of only two reasons: either Gamespot is so liberally idelogical that they believe they should be preaching the game comunity politcal correctness or they did it for the ratings.  I guess there is a third option: they were too dumb to think of the consquences. 

Wahtever the reason it was a mistake but good luck getting them to admit to it.  Professionals should review games as games and leave their personal politics out of it.  Both Carlyn's and Gamespot's reputation are at all time lows.  I sincerely hope they learn from this.

 

ianpac

Let me define satire, for you.

Satire - the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Now, let me quote directly from Carolyn's review.

"Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them smell like a bitch. Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to Higher Love by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal."

Now that you know the definition of satire, and understand that, in order for something to be satirical, it must criticise (or expose) stupidity and/or popular societal opinions, maybe you can realize that, according to Carolyn, satire was the last thing obvious in regards to GTA V's blatant, consistent sexist shticks.

Even if you weren't to agree with me, as I suspect you won't, who cares? Isn't that the point? You're being absurd for taking it to this level in the first place. Quit crying.

experience_fade

But what exactly was Carolyn expecting from GRAND THEFT AUTO of all things? That it wouldn't have misogyny in it? That it would be filled with kindness and equality? And only a complete dumbass would play GTA V and then think that misogyny is ok, so I don't think that she needs to worry that every GTA player in America is suddenly gonna become misogynistic.

[QUOTE="experience_fade"]

Let me define satire, for you.

Satire - the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Now, let me quote directly from Carolyn's review.

"Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them smell like a bitch. Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to Higher Love by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal."

Now that you know the definition of satire, and understand that, in order for something to be satirical, it must criticise (or expose) stupidity and/or popular societal opinions, maybe you can realize that, according to Carolyn, satire was the last thing obvious in regards to GTA V's blatant, consistent sexist shticks.

Even if you weren't to agree with me, as I suspect you won't, who cares? Isn't that the point? You're being absurd for taking it to this level in the first place. Quit crying.

EnoshimaJunko

But what exactly was Carolyn expecting from GRAND THEFT AUTO of all things? That it wouldn't have misogyny in it? That it would be filled with kindness and equality? And only a complete dumbass would play GTA V and then think that misogyny is ok, so I don't think that she needs to worry that every GTA player in America is suddenly gonna become misogynistic.

You act as if there is no middle ground between misogyny and equality. And keep in mind, it's not that she docked the game for having unflattering positions on women, it's that when those unflattering positions were presented/demonstrated, the game celebrated and reinforced them, rather than satirically showcase them as morally wrong.

The equivalent I would equate for those who don't realize they themselves are at least somewhat sexist, and thus aren't able to look at this situation through an unbiased prism, would be for you to play a game where you're part of Hitler's army, and, rather than (throughout the course of the game) subtly provide instances of how morally reprehensible the main character you're playing is (even doing so through slighty-hidden metaphors would be fine), the game instead celebrates you mass murdering innocent Jewish people. It takes the position that doing so is "awesome," regularly throughout the game.

That is what Carolyn is arguing. Rather than make a morally correct statement about sexism and misogyny (that could be super subtle) while you're listening to advertisements about urinating on women and such, Grand Theft Auto 5 celebrates it. And to her, that's wrong.

Maybe it's not to you. Get hired at a professional gaming publication and state as much, if that's the case. Counter balance her evilness. Otherwise, quit crying. No one person's opinion should influence you that much, especially not when it comes to a friggen video game.