Most overrated retro games?

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#51 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

Final Fantasy 3 is TERRIBLY overrated, IMHO. The random battles are pitifully annoying, the pacing completely crumbles in the World of Ruin, and just power-leveling Ultima to your party completely erases any sort of difficulty the game might have had. It might have been groundbreaking for its time but it has not stood the test of time as well as Chrono Trigger or even Phantasy Star IV.GameBoi92

I LOVE Phantasy Star 4, but Final Fantasy 6 absolutely aged better than it. I mean, I'll even concede that Phantasy Star 4 had somewhat more interesting combat, but in terms of presentation and pacing, FF6 slaughters it and dances on its corpse. I agree that Chrono Trigger aged better tho.

#52 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

My picks (I have much more, but I'll just list three):

1. Klonoa. So basic and boring. I purchased it on Wii and returned it the next day. Such a sleeping pill.

2. A Link To The Past. Great game, but the series definitely matured after ALTTP. The dungeon design comes across as a little too basic after playing the later entries.

3. Suikoden. It's definitely a good RPG, but it's nothing special whatosever. Its aesthetics are pretty underwhelming as is the dungeon design and the combat system. I have no idea why people hold this game in such high esteem.

I know its sequel is praised much more, but I've heard some people claim the first Suikoden is one of the best RPGs ever made and I for the life of me don't get what this game does to warrant that kind of praise. I think the GameSpot review score of Suikoden is definitely a bit too low, but not that far off base.

Granted, I didn't actually finish the game, but I played a good chunk of it. Despite thinking it's nothing special, I'm still going to buy it again and play it all the way through. Maybe my opinion of it will be higher the second time. I find many gamers to be growers.

#53 Posted by GreekGameManiac (6439 posts) -

Yes guys,Tetris is overrated,in a way.

It's too simplistic...and it's an extremely old game.

Get over it.

#54 Posted by AsadMahdi59 (6542 posts) -

Mariokart 64- Crash Team Racing is a million times better

Ico- crappy combat shoved down your throat with a brain dead ai partner

Prince of Persia Sands of time- I like the game alot it's just it gets aloooot more praise then Warrior Within, Two throes and even forgotten sands even though from a gameplay and pacing perspective it's arguably the worst.

surprised I can't think of others

#55 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

Mariokart 64- Crash Team Racing is a million times better

Ico- crappy combat shoved down your throat with a brain dead ai partner

Prince of Persia Sands of time- I like the game alot it's just it gets aloooot more praise then Warrior Within, Two throes and even forgotten sands even though from a gameplay and pacing perspective it's arguably the worst.

surprised I can't think of others

AsadMahdi59
Oddly enough I'm actually currently playing CTR--it has nowhere near the depth of Mario kart. CTR didnt hold up as well as I thought it would. I forgot how kiddie the cart control was. Also, MK64 isn't overrated. A lot of people didn't like it when it came out and it received a fair share of average reviews.
#56 Posted by bowserjr123 (1624 posts) -

I'd have to go with Shadow of the Colossus and God of War. I wasn't a fan of SotC's gameplay as the camera was annoying and fighting the bosses felt repetitive to me. I also felt that God of War's gameplay was more of a button-masher and I wasn't a fan of the platforming and other obstacles, such as the spiked tower at the end of the game and when Kratos had to walk on those narrow planks and what not.

#57 Posted by Seabas989 (10097 posts) -

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - For some reason, very few wrpgs appeal to me. morrowind was one of those games that was beautiful at the start but after a couple hours got boring fast. The combat really sucks, the walking sucks and the world got old.

Mario Kart Double Dash - I liked this game but the two people on karts mechanic was not my cup of tea. Plus it first brought the exploding blue shells and you can't hop. Plus for some reason, DD feels slow.

Super Mario 64 - Revolutionary, innovative but not as fun as the 2D MArios. Plus the game has not aged well, especially after playing the Galaxy games which are superior in every way.

Kingdom Hearts - It's better then KH2 but it still feels like I'm just mashing the X button for most of the game. Game felt shallow. Plus I didn't like the story.

Halo 2 - At the time it was released I thought the campaign was disappointing. I am willing to givve it another shot.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne - I'm usually tolerant with random battles but for some reason I'm not with this game. Never finished it but mainly because I lsot interest.

#58 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - For some reason, very few wrpgs appeal to me. morrowind was one of those games that was beautiful at the start but after a couple hours got boring fast. The combat really sucks, the walking sucks and the world got old.

Mario Kart Double Dash - I liked this game but the two people on karts mechanic was not my cup of tea. Plus it first brought the exploding blue shells and you can't hop. Plus for some reason, DD feels slow.

Super Mario 64 - Revolutionary, innovative but not as fun as the 2D MArios. Plus the game has not aged well, especially after playing the Galaxy games which are superior in every way.

Kingdom Hearts - It's better then KH2 but it still feels like I'm just mashing the X button for most of the game. Game felt shallow. Plus I didn't like the story.

Halo 2 - At the time it was released I thought the campaign was disappointing. I am willing to givve it another shot.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne - I'm usually tolerant with random battles but for some reason I'm not with this game. Never finished it but mainly because I lsot interest.

Seabas989

Morrowind's combat feels really broken.

#59 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -

Yes guys,Tetris is overrated,in a way.

It's too simplistic...and it's an extremely old game.

Get over it.

GreekGameManiac
The thing is, something so simple can keep you entertained for hours, that's what makes it an amazing game. It's such a simple idea, but it's a great idea. Being old isn't really an excuse though.
SotC's gameplay as the camera was annoying and fighting the bosses felt repetitive to mebowserjr123
I can agree with the camera, but I can't see how anyone can say the fighting bosses feels repetitive, the only repetitiveness in it is the finding the bosses part, the actual fighting is different every time. Though I do agree that the game is a bit overhyped. I still find it amazing though.
#60 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

There isn't a game that does the 3D open world adventure genre better than OoT

Nude_Dude

Majora's Mask.

Overrated games:

- Mario Kart 64: mediocre racing game, worst Mario Kart, there are far better racing games on the system yet it keeps getting praised.

- Super Mario 64: maybe I had to play this when it came out to know what all the hype was about, but to be honest I liked the DS version much better.

- Super Mario Kart: damn that's almost unplayable now. Definitely a token of its' time. Still can't decide whether this one or 64 is the worst in the series.

- Starfox 64 / Lylat Wars: Eh, not really a fan of completing games in a sitting. It's an ok shooter, there's nothing else about it.

- Paper Mario series: With the exception of TTYD, which I have not played, the games aren't that great. The art style is good, I'll give them that, but I had more fun with SMRRPG and M&L.

- ALttP: never got into it. I tried again and again, but unlike OoT and MM it never managed to hold my interest for long. (on the other hand, I loved Link's Awakening)

Haha while I think OoT is better, they are super close. Zelda reigns supreme, especially the N64 ones.

#61 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]A lot of names dropped but not much explanation. Okay. Mine is Azel: Panzer Dragoon Saga for the Sega Saturn. I think because so few people have played it that the game has amassed a cult following by the few who have been able to play it. The status of the game has helped elevate it to a kind of ill-gotten critical mass. It's not a bad game by any means (far from it). The problem is that the story feels weak. The Panzer Dragoon games have really deep stories and world lore when compared against their peers in the shooter genre, so it isn't that strange that SEGA felt this could be capitalised on for a fully-fledged RPG. Thing is, when stretched over a full-length RPG that level of story and lore suddenly isn't so vast and compelling, but simply spread thin. The game still has some things going for it though, most notably is its unique world which is a mixture of apocalyptic-meets-dangerously-primitive that I've not seen in almost any other game. Sadly for most people this game is too expensive to indulge so many will never play it.Articuno76

panzer dragoon saga;s story feels weak? you got to be kidding me. pls explain the story to me then as I doubt you understand any of it and I doubt you played the other panzer dragoon saturn games to understand this inmensely complex storyline that is somewhat comparable to nausicaa of the valley of the wind, only with a better setting imo.

Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right? the core of the game is the heresy program and dragon and how the ai programmed viruses to protect sestren, the world's ai. you as edge the character die immediately and are being taken over by the divine visitor, who attracts the heresy dragon, who is programmed in the past to kill sestren. however the most important thing is the interaction between edge and azel and how azel, a drone falls in love with edge, who isn't even alive you find out after the game. azel is programmed to kill you and your dragon and through many interaction and plot twists and fore cooperation the whole scope of the story changes entirely. no good vs evil, but a very good mix.

read the will of the ancients website to see literally hundreds of theories and storyline explanations. I played all 3 panzer dragoon games and after finishing it was simply left in awe and looked up all possible theories. the ending is very open, yet closed, you can choose what you believe and the ride towards the ending is also incredible. it reminds me mostly of ico as a videogame although that amazing storyline was told with minimal dialogue, which is even more impressive

#62 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

What a terrible opinion you have. Why is OoT nothing great? Yet FF7 is? FF7 aged a lot, OoT has hardly aged aside from graphics.

NaveedLife

yeah my opinion is terible because you don't agree :roll:

why do I care about graphics? ocarina of time is nothing exceptional. the size of the world is inmensely overrated, the storyline sucks(as always), the gameplay, while good is nothing genre defining either(bland combat). if you want a game that defined a genre, it was shadow of the colossus for instance. zelda was basically mario 64 in a bigger world(miyamoto has even said this) with some added features. mario 64 was inmensely overrated as well.

keep in mind btw I like ocarina of time I might give it 7.5 or 8/10, that is very good, but it's supposed to be the best or one of the best games ever. well no way in hell. not in my top 50 and I've played thousands of games

This **** is sig worthy!:lol:

Who hypes the size of the world anyway? Sure on today's standards it is not that big, but why does that matter? It is lovingly crafted and memorable. SO many games today are either linear or massive, repetitive sandbox games. I long for the days of beautifully handcrafted open world adventures that feel unique every step of the way.

then put it in your sig. why don't you answer about the shallow combat? :roll:

and for one majora's mask was better than ocarina of time.

#63 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

yeah my opinion is terible because you don't agree :roll:

why do I care about graphics? ocarina of time is nothing exceptional. the size of the world is inmensely overrated, the storyline sucks(as always), the gameplay, while good is nothing genre defining either(bland combat). if you want a game that defined a genre, it was shadow of the colossus for instance. zelda was basically mario 64 in a bigger world(miyamoto has even said this) with some added features. mario 64 was inmensely overrated as well.

keep in mind btw I like ocarina of time I might give it 7.5 or 8/10, that is very good, but it's supposed to be the best or one of the best games ever. well no way in hell. not in my top 50 and I've played thousands of games

bultje112

This **** is sig worthy!:lol:

Who hypes the size of the world anyway? Sure on today's standards it is not that big, but why does that matter? It is lovingly crafted and memorable. SO many games today are either linear or massive, repetitive sandbox games. I long for the days of beautifully handcrafted open world adventures that feel unique every step of the way.

then put it in your sig. why don't you answer about the shallow combat? :roll:

and for one majora's mask was better than ocarina of time.

First of all, the combat (Z targetting) was revolutionary for its time. Second of all, Zelda is not an action game or a hack and slash game. It's combat is not super difficult to remember how to use, and there is not much for fast paced action. It does what it needs to do well. It makes use of your timing and thought process on when to and not to hit an enemy. It is simple yet complex. I have never had an issue with Zelda's combat. It requires more thought than many other games combat.

#64 Posted by bowserjr123 (1624 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreekGameManiac"]

Yes guys,Tetris is overrated,in a way.

It's too simplistic...and it's an extremely old game.

Get over it.

Dudersaper

The thing is, something so simple can keep you entertained for hours, that's what makes it an amazing game. It's such a simple idea, but it's a great idea. Being old isn't really an excuse though.
SotC's gameplay as the camera was annoying and fighting the bosses felt repetitive to mebowserjr123
I can agree with the camera, but I can't see how anyone can say the fighting bosses feels repetitive, the only repetitiveness in it is the finding the bosses part, the actual fighting is different every time. Though I do agree that the game is a bit overhyped. I still find it amazing though.

Actually learning how to get on the bosses was kinda cool but for every boss it was just 'find weak point, stab.' I felt like they could have used some different methods of actually damaging each boss. I also found the controls clunky as well, but that's just me.

#65 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

This **** is sig worthy!:lol:

Who hypes the size of the world anyway? Sure on today's standards it is not that big, but why does that matter? It is lovingly crafted and memorable. SO many games today are either linear or massive, repetitive sandbox games. I long for the days of beautifully handcrafted open world adventures that feel unique every step of the way.

NaveedLife

then put it in your sig. why don't you answer about the shallow combat? :roll:

and for one majora's mask was better than ocarina of time.

First of all, the combat (Z targetting) was revolutionary for its time. Second of all, Zelda is not an action game or a hack and slash game. It's combat is not super difficult to remember how to use, and there is not much for fast paced action. It does what it needs to do well. It makes use of your timing and thought process on when to and not to hit an enemy. It is simple yet complex. I have never had an issue with Zelda's combat. It requires more thought than many other games combat.

well shenmue is not an action game, but it's fighting mechanics are top notch. zelda is repetetive in every way imaginable to me

#66 Posted by AcidThunder (2332 posts) -

i have always found the mario games to be overrated

#67 Posted by Articuno76 (18724 posts) -

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

panzer dragoon saga;s story feels weak? you got to be kidding me. pls explain the story to me then as I doubt you understand any of it and I doubt you played the other panzer dragoon saturn games to understand this inmensely complex storyline that is somewhat comparable to nausicaa of the valley of the wind, only with a better setting imo.

bultje112

Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right? the core of the game is the heresy program and dragon and how the ai programmed viruses to protect sestren, the world's ai. you as edge the character die immediately and are being taken over by the divine visitor, who attracts the heresy dragon, who is programmed in the past to kill sestren. however the most important thing is the interaction between edge and azel and how azel, a drone falls in love with edge, who isn't even alive you find out after the game. azel is programmed to kill you and your dragon and through many interaction and plot twists and fore cooperation the whole scope of the story changes entirely. no good vs evil, but a very good mix.

read the will of the ancients website to see literally hundreds of theories and storyline explanations. I played all 3 panzer dragoon games and after finishing it was simply left in awe and looked up all possible theories. the ending is very open, yet closed, you can choose what you believe and the ride towards the ending is also incredible. it reminds me mostly of ico as a videogame although that amazing storyline was told with minimal dialogue, which is even more impressive

After reading what you've written though I am more convinced that what I took issue with was narrative more than story; what is happening on a moment to moment basis is not that interesting. As for being one of the only people not impressed by the story...well how many people actually own the game? If you paid crazy ebay prices for it or had held onto what became a priceless collectors item I'm sure anyone would love it. I paid 500 yen for it in perfect condition (even with the promotional material and the hint-sleeve unopened) and played through it just as I would any other game in the impulse buy range. I left thinking 'Hmm, that was alright'.

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to upright people's opinions.

#68 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Articuno76"] Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

Articuno76

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right? the core of the game is the heresy program and dragon and how the ai programmed viruses to protect sestren, the world's ai. you as edge the character die immediately and are being taken over by the divine visitor, who attracts the heresy dragon, who is programmed in the past to kill sestren. however the most important thing is the interaction between edge and azel and how azel, a drone falls in love with edge, who isn't even alive you find out after the game. azel is programmed to kill you and your dragon and through many interaction and plot twists and fore cooperation the whole scope of the story changes entirely. no good vs evil, but a very good mix.

read the will of the ancients website to see literally hundreds of theories and storyline explanations. I played all 3 panzer dragoon games and after finishing it was simply left in awe and looked up all possible theories. the ending is very open, yet closed, you can choose what you believe and the ride towards the ending is also incredible. it reminds me mostly of ico as a videogame although that amazing storyline was told with minimal dialogue, which is even more impressive

After reading what you've written though I am more convinced that what I took issue with was narrative more than story; what is happening on a moment to moment basis is not that interesting. As for being one of the only people not impressed by the story...well how many people actually own the game? If you paid crazy ebay prices for it or had held onto what became a priceless collectors item I'm sure anyone would love it. I paid 500 yen for it in perfect condition (even with the promotional material and the hint-sleeve unopened) and played through it just as I would any other game in the impulse buy range. I left thinking 'Hmm, that was alright'.

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to upright people's opinions.

there are a lot of people who played the game. just check ratings and reviews. there are 50.000 panzer dragoon saga copies in english and 150.000 in japanese, not even counting people burning the game or playing by emulator and of course it's one of the most sold games on ebay so many people have played and resold it. so a lot of people have played it and it has a huge cultfollowing

#69 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"][QUOTE="GreekGameManiac"]The thing is, something so simple can keep you entertained for hours, that's what makes it an amazing game. It's such a simple idea, but it's a great idea. Being old isn't really an excuse though. [QUOTE="bowserjr123"] SotC's gameplay as the camera was annoying and fighting the bosses felt repetitive to mebowserjr123

I can agree with the camera, but I can't see how anyone can say the fighting bosses feels repetitive, the only repetitiveness in it is the finding the bosses part, the actual fighting is different every time. Though I do agree that the game is a bit overhyped. I still find it amazing though.

Actually learning how to get on the bosses was kinda cool but for every boss it was just 'find weak point, stab.' I felt like they could have used some different methods of actually damaging each boss. I also found the controls clunky as well, but that's just me.

Oh it's not just you, the controls aren't the sharpest ones out there for sure.
#70 Posted by Seabas989 (10097 posts) -

[QUOTE="Seabas989"]

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - For some reason, very few wrpgs appeal to me. morrowind was one of those games that was beautiful at the start but after a couple hours got boring fast. The combat really sucks, the walking sucks and the world got old.

Mario Kart Double Dash - I liked this game but the two people on karts mechanic was not my cup of tea. Plus it first brought the exploding blue shells and you can't hop. Plus for some reason, DD feels slow.

Super Mario 64 - Revolutionary, innovative but not as fun as the 2D MArios. Plus the game has not aged well, especially after playing the Galaxy games which are superior in every way.

Kingdom Hearts - It's better then KH2 but it still feels like I'm just mashing the X button for most of the game. Game felt shallow. Plus I didn't like the story.

Halo 2 - At the time it was released I thought the campaign was disappointing. I am willing to givve it another shot.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne - I'm usually tolerant with random battles but for some reason I'm not with this game. Never finished it but mainly because I lsot interest.

GreySeal9

Morrowind's combat feels really broken.

Yeah it did for me too in some ways. Bascially the combat is the reason why I ndpn't like the game.

#71 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

There is no doubting that Morrowind's combat is bad. But almost everything else about the game was amazing, and quite innovative when it came out. Never before had I been given so much freedom in a game. I was able to forgive Morrowind's combat for that reason.

#72 Posted by bowserjr123 (1624 posts) -

[QUOTE="bowserjr123"]

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]I can agree with the camera, but I can't see how anyone can say the fighting bosses feels repetitive, the only repetitiveness in it is the finding the bosses part, the actual fighting is different every time. Though I do agree that the game is a bit overhyped. I still find it amazing though.Dudersaper

Actually learning how to get on the bosses was kinda cool but for every boss it was just 'find weak point, stab.' I felt like they could have used some different methods of actually damaging each boss. I also found the controls clunky as well, but that's just me.

Oh it's not just you, the controls aren't the sharpest ones out there for sure.

Glad we can agree :P

#73 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

There is no doubting that Morrowind's combat is bad. But almost everything else about the game was amazing, and quite innovative when it came out. Never before had I been given so much freedom in a game. I was able to forgive Morrowind's combat for that reason.

Emerald_Warrior

play any of the elder scrolls game before morrowind and you had a lot more freedom there and way bigger world.

#74 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

panzer dragoon saga;s story feels weak? you got to be kidding me. pls explain the story to me then as I doubt you understand any of it and I doubt you played the other panzer dragoon saturn games to understand this inmensely complex storyline that is somewhat comparable to nausicaa of the valley of the wind, only with a better setting imo.

bultje112

Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right?

Nice appeal to popularity!

#75 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Articuno76"] Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

GreySeal9

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right?

Nice appeal to popularity!

One shouldn't have to play the other games to understand the story. What Articuno is saying is that the storytelling is not so great.
#76 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right?

Heirren

Nice appeal to popularity!

One shouldn't have to play the other games to understand the story. What Articuno is saying is that the storytelling is not so great.

I understand what Articuno is saying. I was critisizing bultje122's lame "do you realize that you're alone in not liking it?" response.

#77 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Nice appeal to popularity!

GreySeal9

One shouldn't have to play the other games to understand the story. What Articuno is saying is that the storytelling is not so great.

I understand what Articuno is saying. I was critisizing bultje122's lame "do you realize that you're alone in not liking it?" response.

Oh I know, I wasn't responding to you directly but moreso the conversation in general.
#78 Posted by GreySeal9 (24054 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"] One shouldn't have to play the other games to understand the story. What Articuno is saying is that the storytelling is not so great.Heirren

I understand what Articuno is saying. I was critisizing bultje122's lame "do you realize that you're alone in not liking it?" response.

Oh I know, I wasn't responding to you directly but moreso the conversation in general.

Oh, OK.

#79 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Articuno76"] Perhaps 'anemic' is a better term. And I think what I am talking about more specifically isn't story so much as narrative (which is weak). If you want to include interwoven world lore (across all the Panzer games) as 'story' I guess you could but that wouldn't realistically reflect the experience most people would have with the game. As for the story..I don't really remember it. You are working on a digging site for the empire that is digging up ancient things, one guy in that empire has actually defected and turns to have the interests that go as deep as the maintenance of civilisation (zomg big twist). I think there was something about the player being the disembodied spirit of a dragon warrior or something or other (zomg another big twist). There wasn't anything not to get or anything complicated...it just wasn't interesting enough toremember (and I only played it a year or so ago). I'm sure you can list loads of details not listed here but I highly doubt they are details I missed...rather details that simply didn't make much of an impact. And that is really what the problem with the story is. It might be an amazingly detailed and complex tale, but at the end of day if that impact doesn't hit the player it doesn't matter and the developers would have been betting off telling a cliched story of friendship that hits the right marks (what is the point of a story if not to either make a point or make an emotional impact? PZS definately doesn't do the latter...and if it is making a point I am not sure what it is).

I read all the optional stuff as I went along and still wasn't really impressed. What I will take away from Panzer Dragoon Saga was the experience of being in that world; a vast dangerous expanse long untouched by human hands. If I didn't really get the story it's a failure on the developer to expound on the key points or relying too heavily on esoteric lore in a game that doesn't particularly encourage digging below the surface. I went in expecting an RPG experience, instead what I got was a world rich in lore but sparse in narrative. Like I said, the Panzer Dragoon games have great stories for their genre, but when made into a full length RPG and compared to its peers in the genre it doesn't stack up. Even if the story is great, the total narrative effect on the player is really muted. So either the story is weak, or the effect the story has on the player is weak. Either way the end result in terms of player engagement and emotional investment is the same.

GreySeal9

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right?

Nice appeal to popularity!

merely pointing out that he is virtually alone in this and that it might have been a miss on his part. not the game

and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 first

#80 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

you realize you are one of the only people thinking the story isn't great right?

bultje112

Nice appeal to popularity!

merely pointing out that he is virtually alone in this and that it might have been a miss on his part. not the game

and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 first

It's still related to what he had said, and holds merit. It's the way the story is told, not the events themselves, that is in question.
#81 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -
and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 firstbultje112
Of course, it's better to play the previous game, but it shouldn't be a necessity. For example, you can PERFECTLY play Yakuza 2 without playing the first game, because they put in a "flashback" feature that tells you what happened in the first game, even Shenmue does that too (at least on the XBOX, not sure about the DC version). Dreamfall The Longest Journey, also doesn't assume you've played the first game, you can perfectly get immersed in the game without having played the first. Though it DOES help play the first. You don't need to play Jak 2 to understand Jak 3, though it does help, but it's not a necessity. If you HAVE to play the first game to minimally enjoy the second, it can be considered a flaw in the storytelling, the game's story should be able to continue the last but at the same time, stand alone.
#82 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 firstDudersaper
Of course, it's better to play the previous game, but it shouldn't be a necessity. For example, you can PERFECTLY play Yakuza 2 without playing the first game, because they put in a "flashback" feature that tells you what happened in the first game, even Shenmue does that too (at least on the XBOX, not sure about the DC version). Dreamfall The Longest Journey, also doesn't assume you've played the first game, you can perfectly get immersed in the game without having played the first. Though it DOES help play the first. You don't need to play Jak 2 to understand Jak 3, though it does help, but it's not a necessity. If you HAVE to play the first game to minimally enjoy the second, it can be considered a flaw in the storytelling, the game's story should be able to continue the last but at the same time, stand alone.

you can also perfectly play panzer dragoon saga without teh previous games, but a lot on the story will be lost on you, same with yakuza games

#83 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -
I'm just saying in general. I've never played Panzer Dragoon Saga :P
#84 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"][QUOTE="bultje112"]and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 firstbultje112

Of course, it's better to play the previous game, but it shouldn't be a necessity. For example, you can PERFECTLY play Yakuza 2 without playing the first game, because they put in a "flashback" feature that tells you what happened in the first game, even Shenmue does that too (at least on the XBOX, not sure about the DC version). Dreamfall The Longest Journey, also doesn't assume you've played the first game, you can perfectly get immersed in the game without having played the first. Though it DOES help play the first. You don't need to play Jak 2 to understand Jak 3, though it does help, but it's not a necessity. If you HAVE to play the first game to minimally enjoy the second, it can be considered a flaw in the storytelling, the game's story should be able to continue the last but at the same time, stand alone.

you can also perfectly play panzer dragoon saga without teh previous games, but a lot on the story will be lost on you, same with yakuza games

Which means the storytelling is flawed if it can't stand on its own merits.
#85 Posted by riou7 (10832 posts) -

FFVII obviously

#86 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"][QUOTE="bultje112"]and the whole argument that you shouldn't need to play other games to understand this one has to be the worst I've ever heard heirren. it's a sequel, like when you play shenmue 2 it's better to have played shenmue 1 firstbultje112

Of course, it's better to play the previous game, but it shouldn't be a necessity. For example, you can PERFECTLY play Yakuza 2 without playing the first game, because they put in a "flashback" feature that tells you what happened in the first game, even Shenmue does that too (at least on the XBOX, not sure about the DC version). Dreamfall The Longest Journey, also doesn't assume you've played the first game, you can perfectly get immersed in the game without having played the first. Though it DOES help play the first. You don't need to play Jak 2 to understand Jak 3, though it does help, but it's not a necessity. If you HAVE to play the first game to minimally enjoy the second, it can be considered a flaw in the storytelling, the game's story should be able to continue the last but at the same time, stand alone.

you can also perfectly play panzer dragoon saga without teh previous games, but a lot on the story will be lost on you, same with yakuza games

I've never played Panzer Dragoon Saga. But Panzer Dragoon I own, and it's not like it has a really deep story. It's more about the gameplay.

#87 Posted by bultje112 (1867 posts) -

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Dudersaper"]Of course, it's better to play the previous game, but it shouldn't be a necessity. For example, you can PERFECTLY play Yakuza 2 without playing the first game, because they put in a "flashback" feature that tells you what happened in the first game, even Shenmue does that too (at least on the XBOX, not sure about the DC version). Dreamfall The Longest Journey, also doesn't assume you've played the first game, you can perfectly get immersed in the game without having played the first. Though it DOES help play the first. You don't need to play Jak 2 to understand Jak 3, though it does help, but it's not a necessity. If you HAVE to play the first game to minimally enjoy the second, it can be considered a flaw in the storytelling, the game's story should be able to continue the last but at the same time, stand alone. Emerald_Warrior

you can also perfectly play panzer dragoon saga without teh previous games, but a lot on the story will be lost on you, same with yakuza games

I've never played Panzer Dragoon Saga. But Panzer Dragoon I own, and it's not like it has a really deep story. It's more about the gameplay.

play panzer dragoon zwei. original panzer dragoon 1 story is understood more after playing saga. same with zwei. although zwei has a lot more storyline in it.

#88 Posted by gamenerd15 (4437 posts) -

Ico I just didn't get the fuss over the game it was a pretty dull experience for me.

I would also throw in Mario Kart 64: In my opinion it felt slow compared to later entries in the series.

Star Fox I mean sure it'sa good game but it can be beaten in an hour.

Megaman yep their good but don't hold a candle to the 2D Sonic or Mario games.

chocolate1325

Star Fox has different path ways. You cannot beat the game in an hour. You can do one playthrough in about that time, but it is impossible to play the entire game in that format. Mega Man cannot be compared to Mario or Sonic. Mega Man is an action platformer. Sonic and Mario are pure platformers.

#89 Posted by Ilovegames1992 (14221 posts) -

System Shock 2

#90 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

tumblr_m26nvnNG5o1qkk10ro1_500.jpg

#91 Posted by Ilovegames1992 (14221 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

System Shock 2

Dudersaper

System Shock 2

Ilovegames1992

tumblr_m26nvnNG5o1qkk10ro1_500.jpg

I love this.

You know who else sucks?

Morrigan from Dragon Age.

Worst. Character. Ever

#92 Posted by Dudersaper (32949 posts) -
Well she isn't my favourite character out there either (or in DA:Origins for that matter) so that doesn't bother me :P
#93 Posted by kittensRjerks (3802 posts) -

anything Final Fantasy

#94 Posted by Valknut4 (392 posts) -

anything Final Fantasy

kittensRjerks

I'd love to hear you explain how FF1 Nes version is overated.

#95 Posted by Emerald_Warrior (6581 posts) -

anything Final Fantasy

kittensRjerks

I completely agree. It's not a terrible series, by any means. I especially love the SNES entries. But at the same time, I've played PLENTY of RPGs that are much better than the Final Fantasy games. Yet they are touted as the perfect JRPG series.

#96 Posted by GreekGameManiac (6439 posts) -

[QUOTE="kittensRjerks"]

anything Final Fantasy

Emerald_Warrior

I completely agree. It's not a terrible series, by any means. I especially love the SNES entries. But at the same time, I've played PLENTY of RPGs that are much better than the Final Fantasy games. Yet they are touted as the perfect JRPG series.

True,though some of them are very good,long,with a good story.

Like FFX.

#97 Posted by Heirren (16502 posts) -

[QUOTE="kittensRjerks"]

anything Final Fantasy

Emerald_Warrior

I completely agree. It's not a terrible series, by any means. I especially love the SNES entries. But at the same time, I've played PLENTY of RPGs that are much better than the Final Fantasy games. Yet they are touted as the perfect JRPG series.

It's the art direction. Final Fantasy always has great art direction.
#98 Posted by AFBrat77 (24072 posts) -

[QUOTE="Seabas989"]

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - For some reason, very few wrpgs appeal to me. morrowind was one of those games that was beautiful at the start but after a couple hours got boring fast. The combat really sucks, the walking sucks and the world got old.

Mario Kart Double Dash - I liked this game but the two people on karts mechanic was not my cup of tea. Plus it first brought the exploding blue shells and you can't hop. Plus for some reason, DD feels slow.

Super Mario 64 - Revolutionary, innovative but not as fun as the 2D MArios. Plus the game has not aged well, especially after playing the Galaxy games which are superior in every way.

Kingdom Hearts - It's better then KH2 but it still feels like I'm just mashing the X button for most of the game. Game felt shallow. Plus I didn't like the story.

Halo 2 - At the time it was released I thought the campaign was disappointing. I am willing to givve it another shot.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne - I'm usually tolerant with random battles but for some reason I'm not with this game. Never finished it but mainly because I lsot interest.

GreySeal9

Morrowind's combat feels really broken.

I don't think Morrowind (PC version) is overrated at all, great game all around and deserving of high praise IMO. Oblivion on the other hand.....

#99 Posted by AFBrat77 (24072 posts) -

There is no doubting that Morrowind's combat is bad. But almost everything else about the game was amazing, and quite innovative when it came out. Never before had I been given so much freedom in a game. I was able to forgive Morrowind's combat for that reason.

Emerald_Warrior

agreed

#100 Posted by AFBrat77 (24072 posts) -

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

There is no doubting that Morrowind's combat is bad. But almost everything else about the game was amazing, and quite innovative when it came out. Never before had I been given so much freedom in a game. I was able to forgive Morrowind's combat for that reason.

bultje112

play any of the elder scrolls game before morrowind and you had a lot more freedom there and way bigger world.

Daggerfall was bigger but not necessarily better.......also, Daggerfall was very buggy