MMO subscription fees — Robbery?

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by SpiderLuke (515 posts) -

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

#2 Posted by fatee (303 posts) -

It's hard to convince oneself to pay $15 a month for an MMO that rarely gets updates and charges for expansions, when GW2 release a content patch every 2 weeks for free.


#3 Posted by dotWithShoes (4844 posts) -

I think if someone thinks it is worth it, that is their opinion. If you do not believe it's worth it, that's your opinion. To call something robbery, I would suspect you would be giving them money and getting nothing of value in return. Where as when you pay for WoW, you get a product in return. If you feel you are not getting your moneys worth, and you continue to pay it then you are not getting robbed, you're merely a fool. Robbery it is not.

#4 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

well, maintenance fees ultimately have to be covered and that happens from revenue from either subscriptions or microtransactions. i'm more suspicious of microtransactions because of how that can impact the design of the game, but there are pitfalls for subscription fees too.

it really comes down to whether the subscription is there to cover regular upkeep or to be the primary source of revenue. if it's just for upkeep, you can enjoy the game for its own sake. if it's the primary source of revenue, the temptation there is to pad the game out to keep people paying the monthly fees.

#5 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16767 posts) -

How can it be robbery when the person is knowingly paying that amount? Sure, I think most MMO fees are ripoffs (by virtue of them being monthly paid fee or what have you) but to call is robbery is just wrong. People who subscribe know what they're paying.

#6 Posted by WR_Platinum (4667 posts) -

Its just not a good business model for consumers. Its old and needs to die out. f2p is the way to go.

#7 Posted by ShepardCommandr (2694 posts) -

Waste of money and time.

MMOs are boring as shit.

#8 Posted by SpiderLuke (515 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer: maybe I should have reworded it as "ripoff" lol

#9 Posted by Bigboi500 (29954 posts) -

Yes. $5 a month is much more appropriate.

#10 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16767 posts) -

@SpiderLuke: Then yes most fees are ripoffs to me. I don't want to have to keep paying for a product; I want a one time fee, then bam, it's mine forever.

#11 Posted by The_Last_Ride (71869 posts) -

i have played a few mmo's through the years, i think they were worth it. It's just a matter of priorities

#12 Edited by Gargus (2147 posts) -
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

#13 Edited by Black_Knight_00 (18478 posts) -

More like alimony

#14 Posted by Evil_Saluki (4878 posts) -

I still think subscription based MMO's are more secure and give you a better play experience. Every free to play MMO has had been limiting or less ambitious in one way or another. I don't see the harm in free to play when it gives people a tester to see if it's a game they wouldn't mind subbing for, which seems to be the direction the top MMO's do these days.

I'm talking proper MMO here by the way, not some sort of frag fest or battleground game where you join a lobby and play a game then it all resets.

#15 Posted by nicecall (428 posts) -

i didn't really mind paying monthly fees on a game when I played it every day. But lots of the time I get bored with a game and thats when I hate paying a monthly fee... if you miss a few days logging in, you feel like your wasting money. Luckily all the games I play right now have no monthly fees.

I'm surprised WOW isnt free yet... soon probably though.

#16 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

nope...

hour or hour is the best deal out there for entertainment other than watching paint dry (if you factor out the cost of the paint and supplies anyway)

As far as elder scrolls as a fan of the series you couldnt even pay me to play that game

#17 Posted by bowchicka07 (1075 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

you couldnt even pay me to play that game

I doubt that man... you are a gamer.

If someone offered you money to play it, you know you would lol.

Fifteen bucks a month is a ripoff, if that holds up with ESO then they are going to be obligated IMO to add new content every month so people are getting their 15 bucks worth.

I think 5 bucks is way more reasonable then most people will say "well it's only 5 bucks."

#18 Edited by Netret0120 (2160 posts) -

Robbery. This is a big reason i haven't gotten into MMO's. Paying a monthly fee to play a game I already paid for? No thanks. I shall stick to my Console games at $30-60 a pop and know I can play the WHOLE game forever.

#19 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@bowchicka07 said:

@SEANMCAD said:

you couldnt even pay me to play that game

I doubt that man... you are a gamer.

If someone offered you money to play it, you know you would lol.

Fifteen bucks a month is a ripoff, if that holds up with ESO then they are going to be obligated IMO to add new content every month so people are getting their 15 bucks worth.

I think 5 bucks is way more reasonable then most people will say "well it's only 5 bucks."

what because i am a gamer I have no moral backbone?

no I would not play it. I am that pissed about that game

#20 Edited by Ish_basic (4019 posts) -

You can pretty easily find charts/articles detailing where every bit of the $60 you pay for a game goes, and so it's pretty easy for someone to answer the question "is it worth it" to themselves when it comes to regular games. With MMOs, I just don't know because it's rare for a company to actually reveal its expenses when it comes to the post-release period. If they did, we could analyze that and discuss it rationally, but right now we have to guess.

It's understandable for people to question with a business model that is so lacking in transparency. It's also fair to question. We are consumers after all...we don't need to be defending anyone's profit margins in here, especially when those margins are so unclear. Let the companies do their own spin. I've paid for subs in the past (and currently have one running now) but I honestly couldn't tell you if I've been getting ripped off or not. Few people can answer that honestly.

#21 Edited by SpiderLuke (515 posts) -

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

#22 Posted by TheNameIsStefan (8 posts) -

@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Im against the monthly fees but i would still pay for them if they are reasonable. A game like wow for example i had to stop playing because 15$ a month was crazy, compared to runescape thats 7$...you can even buy free runescape membership using in game money. If these MMo's had the same membership through ingame currency like runescape does..it would end gold farmers and bots as well.

My decison about games in the future is the same with my world of warcraft idea.

#23 Edited by spike6958 (4794 posts) -

I wouldn't say it robbery. MMO's are in the tougher position than other games because they have to consistently maintain servers that are housing thousands, and are quite often adding new content with every update, but they should consider bringing the prices down. I was one of the people who actually enjoyed Star Wars: The Old Republic, played in multiple beta tests and got early access to the main game, and put a ton of hours into multiple characters, but even though I did I still found that when it came time to part with more cash, I simply didn't. I have started playing it again since it turned F2P (or partly anyway), but not as much as I did.

TBH, at their current prices, I'd say MMO's are only worth it if you don't plan to play any other games, if you just wish to play that one game for the rest of the year (or however long your subscription lasts), then it's fine, but if it's going to be fighting for your attention with other games (especially non-subscription) then no it's too expensive because you simply won't get your moneys worth.

#24 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

#25 Posted by Blueresident87 (5339 posts) -

Of course it's not robbery; people choose to pay the fees.

If you don't want to pay, don't play the game(s). The structure may be unfortunate, but it exists as it does for a reason.

#26 Posted by Ish_basic (4019 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

#27 Posted by wiouds (5208 posts) -

Some times "free" to play is more costly. Some times it could be like $20+ a month to act as if it was a sub game.

Some times it is nice just paying up front and know every thing can be gotten in the game with a reasonable time.

#28 Posted by ObxChillin (117 posts) -

yea $15 a month is a bit ridiculous but keep in mind most people that play WoW or other MMOs for a monthly fee, its the only game they play, so instead of buying new $60 games every couple months they just stick to WoW and pay 15 bucks a month. I played WoW for a bit, they always try to the the subscription automatic when it runs out which was my issue. I would just go to walmart and buy a 2 month card for $30 then it seemed worth it because 2 months is a lot of time to play WoW if you play it regularly. If you can afford it sure i mean its not bad, but yeah most people cant, i mean $5 sounds more reasonable and im sure they have enough players to maintain it and make a profit if it was 5 bucks a month still.

Somes games change to FTP after a certain period of time like SWTOR or DC Universe, i think thats what will happen to elder scrolls eventually, depending on how much of an MMO it really is. Like SWTOR it was an MMO but it wasnt an MMO like WoW so we will see.

#29 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

ITS 0.23 CENTS AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the average MMO Player plays 20 hours a week. That comes out to .23 cents per hour at $20 a month.

You likely spend more than that just taking a walk because of calorie replacement.

subscription fees or F2P I really do not give a fuck its crazy cheap either way.

#30 Edited by NeoGen85 (4173 posts) -
@SEANMCAD said:

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

ITS 0.23 CENTS AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the average MMO Player plays 20 hours a week. That comes out to .23 cents per hour at $20 a month.

You likely spend more than that just taking a walk because of calorie replacement.

subscription fees or F2P I really do not give a fuck its crazy cheap either way.

From todays MMORPG you can expect a traditional 2nd generation MMORPG at $15 a month with content patches at every 4 to 6 months. Now the free-to-play model will always be for the individual that the developers hope to grasp.

Are LOTRO, SWTOR, and other MMORPGs like it a failure because of their F2P model? NO! THEY MAKE BANK EVEN TODAY! We define success now by the number of "current" subscribers per month. First of all, no game before or after WoW was able to maintain a subscription that high. Prior to that a game like Evequest was an great success with a subscription base of 500,000 at it's peak. Again, AT ITS PEAK! Again....at ITS PEAK!

With games tha have LOTRO and SWTOR's population, they make more money with the combination of subscribers and their free-to-play model. But why is ESO and even Wildstar going full subscription on release? Most developers are aware of the F2P trend. It's just a matter of when ESO and Wildstar will be F2P. And the excuse could be far from the game being unsuccessful. Today, a MMORPG can peak at 3 million copies sold, have a 1 million(to 800,000) current subscribers, cover their entire development cost, and still have a lot left over. I don't call that failure. When population begins to decrease many games with decide on a free-to-play model.

Will a MMO be as successful as WoW? No! The genre is saturated. The one thing that hinders the market more so than before is technology. Bandwidth, and server technology truly need innovation to make our experience better. What is going to truly bring in the 3rd generation of MMORPGs? At the moment we're in a transition and we can see other multiplayer games doing things we haven't seen before. One thing that is truly fresh with The Elder Scrolls Online is the mega server -- serveral different servers acting as one.

Much like The Old Republic, Zenimax Online Studios has a title that comes from a very popular franchise. Not to mention the last iteration of The Elder Scrolls was popular and brought tons of new fans into the game(and internet memes). I've played the ESO beta, and I have been in beta events that were longer than two days. Even as a long time MMORPG and TES fan I am still impressed by The Elder Scrolls Online.

As far as subscribing to ESO or any other MMORPG, is it robbery? That's for you to decided. I do agree that F2P is the way of the future but we're not all the way there yet. There are a ton of people who will not pay $60 and a monthly $15 fee for a MMORPG today. But, there are a ton of people who will. A game like ESO will make a lot money initially, but I am not expecting it to hold tons of recurring subscribers because our gaming habits have changed since 2004.

But you have to remember...........................................it's $60 with a free month of play. That's all a MMORPG needs to really determine some short or long term success. Why? It's the hardcore gamers(a minority) who rush to endgame that become a voice for other players. If people say they love their leveling experience PLUS there's enough content to keep them coming back after they reached max level; for many of us that's a winner. AND IT ONLY TAKES A MONTH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. So people will get their free month.

Even though this might not happen with ESO or Wildstar, there is one thing that could happen in this genre again that we haven't seen since 2004. A game that people truly fall in love with at release and will keep spending money on it even if the first true content patch is months away(F2P or not).

#31 Edited by Ish_basic (4019 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

ITS 0.23 CENTS AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the average MMO Player plays 20 hours a week. That comes out to .23 cents per hour at $20 a month.

You likely spend more than that just taking a walk because of calorie replacement.

subscription fees or F2P I really do not give a fuck its crazy cheap either way.

You sound like a Sally Struthers commercial.

"For just 23 cents a day you can make sure no corporate fat cat goes without a fresh can of wax for his yacht... *shows picture of shivering fat cat making sad look at the camera*

In any case, if it costs them 1 cent an hour per subscriber to operate the game, then that's a 2200% mark-up. Not cool with that. But like I said, we don't know. We as consumers should care about transparency and continue to question pricing models. Unless you trust the person selling the product to be fair out of the goodness of his heart? It's not about being able to afford it. I can afford a $15 stick of gum, but I damn sure ain't paying that much for it. C'mon, man. Stop shilling.

#32 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

ITS 0.23 CENTS AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the average MMO Player plays 20 hours a week. That comes out to .23 cents per hour at $20 a month.

You likely spend more than that just taking a walk because of calorie replacement.

subscription fees or F2P I really do not give a fuck its crazy cheap either way.

You sound like a Sally Struthers commercial.

"For just 23 cents a day you can make sure no corporate fat cat goes without a fresh can of wax for his yacht... *shows picture of shivering fat cat making sad look at the camera*

In any case, if it costs them 1 cent an hour per subscriber to operate the game, then that's a 2200% mark-up. Not cool with that. But like I said, we don't know. We as consumers should care about transparency and continue to question pricing models. Unless you trust the person selling the product to be fair out of the goodness of his heart? It's not about being able to afford it. I can afford a $15 stick of gum, but I damn sure ain't paying that much for it. C'mon, man. Stop shilling.

to be completely frank if you are not ok with .23 cents an hour and even a 1 billion percent markup then perhaps games are not for you. I think it would do the industry really well if cheap ass gamers would go find something else to do for fun.

Thanks

#33 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@NeoGen85 said:
@SEANMCAD said:

@Ish_basic said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@SpiderLuke said:

@Gargus said:
@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Anything that has ever cost any money at all according to your logic can be considered robbery just because you don't want to pay for it, or the cost is more than youre willing to pay.

How is it a ripoff exactly if someone actually plays the game? World of warcraft for instance, I would play it for hours every night. I cant even see 1 movie and get popcorn for less than 15 bucks. Im willing to bet you pay a lot more for your cell phone bill than 15 bucks a month, or waste money on other things that some would consider idiotic, so whats the problem here?

If you don't pay for it then don't pay for it. Or do you sit around and bitch about every single thing in the entire world you cant afford or don't want to pay the asking price for?

I don't see movies in the theater very often. I completely cut out my home phone and stuck with cell phone only. I try to be a smart consumer. I'm not broke. I'd just rather put that extra money into something useful, for example, my house, to increase its value.

Sure, people could keep throwing their money away, but does that mean it's right? Everyone is different, I agree.

There are, also, a lot of things you could waste your money on. Companies know that and overcharge. I could afford it, but it seems unreasonable. No matter what, companies need to adjust with the times and take whatever precautions or measures I feel.

Sure, you don't mind paying for that high-priced movie, that crazy cell phone bill and that large subscription fee ... but wouldn't it be nice if you took a stand and that led to you not having to?

What the.?

sorry but to be completely frank if you think $15 a month is too high to play an MMO its clear that you are just not that much into games which is fine but it makes me wonder what you are doing here.

it takes pretty much the blink of an eye to spend $15 in an hour on nearly all hobbies. So if you play only 1 hour a month why are you here even posting ??

this is all very odd to me, i dont understand

It's fair to question the prices. Just paying for things blindly is why we have to pay for XBL and PSN subscriptions now. No one knows what an MMO's operating costs are right now, so charging $15 a month could be absurdly overpriced. Especially when you look over at GW2 which has no fee and bi-weekly content updates. The game has done more expanding in 2 years than most MMOs with subs do in their entire lifespan. It's likely MMOs could turn a healthy profit at half that fee or none at all.

businesses have a right to profit and consumers have a right to seek better deals. I don't know why people feel like they need to defend these practices. You're.the.consumer. Defend yourself, not them.

ITS 0.23 CENTS AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the average MMO Player plays 20 hours a week. That comes out to .23 cents per hour at $20 a month.

You likely spend more than that just taking a walk because of calorie replacement.

subscription fees or F2P I really do not give a fuck its crazy cheap either way.

From todays MMORPG you can expect a traditional 2nd generation MMORPG at $15 a month with content patches at every 4 to 6 months. Now the free-to-play model will always be for the individual that the developers hope to grasp.

Are LOTRO, SWTOR, and other MMORPGs like it a failure because of their F2P model? NO! THEY MAKE BANK EVEN TODAY! We define success now by the number of "current" subscribers per month. First of all, no game before or after WoW was able to maintain a subscription that high. Prior to that a game like Evequest was an great success with a subscription base of 500,000 at it's peak. Again, AT ITS PEAK! Again....at ITS PEAK!

With games tha have LOTRO and SWTOR's population, they make more money with the combination of subscribers and their free-to-play model. But why is ESO and even Wildstar going full subscription on release? Most developers are aware of the F2P trend. It's just a matter of when ESO and Wildstar will be F2P. And the excuse could be far from the game being unsuccessful. Today, a MMORPG can peak at 3 million copies sold, have a 1 million(to 800,000) current subscribers, cover their entire development cost, and still have a lot left over. I don't call that failure. When population begins to decrease many games with decide on a free-to-play model.

Will a MMO be as successful as WoW? No! The genre is saturated. The one thing that hinders the market more so than before is technology. Bandwidth, and server technology truly need innovation to make our experience better. What is going to truly bring in the 3rd generation of MMORPGs? At the moment we're in a transition and we can see other multiplayer games doing things we haven't seen before. One thing that is truly fresh with The Elder Scrolls Online is the mega server -- serveral different servers acting as one.

Much like The Old Republic, Zenimax Online Studios has a title that comes from a very popular franchise. Not to mention the last iteration of The Elder Scrolls was popular and brought tons of new fans into the game(and internet memes). I've played the ESO beta, and I have been in beta events that were longer than two days. Even as a long time MMORPG and TES fan I am still impressed by The Elder Scrolls Online.

As far as subscribing to ESO or any other MMORPG, is it robbery? That's for you to decided. I do agree that F2P is the way of the future but we're not all the way there yet. There are a ton of people who will not pay $60 and a monthly $15 fee for a MMORPG today. But, there are a ton of people who will. A game like ESO will make a lot money initially, but I am not expecting it to hold tons of recurring subscribers because our gaming habits have changed since 2004.

But you have to remember...........................................it's $60 with a free month of play. That's all a MMORPG needs to really determine some short or long term success. Why? It's the hardcore gamers(a minority) who rush to endgame that become a voice for other players. If people say they love their leveling experience PLUS there's enough content to keep them coming back after they reached max level; for many of us that's a winner. AND IT ONLY TAKES A MONTH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. So people will get their free month.

Even though this might not happen with ESO or Wildstar, there is one thing that could happen in this genre again that we haven't seen since 2004. A game that people truly fall in love with at release and will keep spending money on it even if the first true content patch is months away(F2P or not).

In the time it took you to think about all that and write all that you could have gotten a job a McDonalds and paid for about 1 year of MMO cost.

Maybe just go play golf instead?

F2P is a model that works, paying monthly is also a model that works. but really guys it might be better use of your time than worrying about one or the other.

#34 Posted by SpiderLuke (515 posts) -

@SEANMCAD: who said I play for an hour? You can be a gamer and know how to find deals. I have gotten about 50+ games from my PSplus subscription that I use to play games constantly. I wait for the best Steam sales and shop for dirt cheap games on Amazon or Half Price Books. Don't be an ass assuming that I can't be a gamer just because I am smart with my money.

#35 Posted by Lhomity (771 posts) -

@fatee: Small, frequent updates VS large, infrequent updates.

WoW updates are not bi-weekly, but they pack in large chunks of content, like raids, dungeons/scenarios, quest hubs, new story arcs, occasional minigames, etc. Not to mention new gear, class changes, mounts, pets, vanity items, and so on.

#36 Posted by fatee (303 posts) -

@Lhomity: Free is free.
$15 a month is an entire game on steam, in 3 months that an AAA title full price.

Are you getting an entire brand new, fun and exciting games worth in 3 months?

It depends the person - but one can argue that the answer is no for a good majority.

#37 Edited by Lhomity (771 posts) -

@fatee: Down to taste. I think most WoW players who have spent at least 6 months or more playing are happy to pay $15 a month for the service and the copious amounts of content. Somebody just looking for a game to spend time on is probably better off buying something off Steam like you said. WoW is a lifestyle as much as it is a game.

A lot of WoW players are into raiding.at various levels, from casual LFR shenanigans to heroic difficulty progression content Then there's PVP,, covering arenas and battlegrounds, standard and rated. Pet battles, brawlers guild, a long list of old dungeons and raids to explore. WoW is enormous. Once upon a time I did it myself (about 6-7 years) and though I have no immediate desire to return, I have no regrets about the money I spent.

#38 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

There are a few things I would like to point out to you folks.

1. a good game or MMO will capture your attention around 20 hours a week for many months. players of what I would consider typically 'good' games do not buy 3+ games a month. In fact in a full year they will likely only have about 4 games they have purchased. If you have to buy 5 games a month to stay interested you are not looking in the right places.

2. AAA games on average are crap. indie games on average are great. yes this is my opinion but I believe in it as much as others believe in god because I have experienced it first hand.

3. Subscription fees are not 'robbery'. F2P or subscription are both GREAT values for your money. Having said that F2P has proven to make more money for the developers.

4. You should all stop playing games for about 6 month and get back to me on what your bank account looks like after. When I take gaming breaks I always have trouble with my funds. can you guess why?

#39 Posted by Flubbbs (3099 posts) -

if you cant afford 15 bucks then dont play it.. simple

#40 Edited by Jacanuk (4574 posts) -

@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Since noone is forcing you to buy this subscribtion its not really robbery.

But i dont think 15$ is a high price and if you really have a house and wife i bet you spend more than that on junk during a week, a few coffee´s from starbucks, a movie and dinner, some McD or drinking

So of course this wont effect my decision even as a student 15$ is peanuts compared to the time and enjoyment i get out of the product. compared to drinking, smoking or eating unhealthy food.

#41 Edited by SpiderLuke (515 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@SpiderLuke said:

What do you think? Is it robbery?

I feel like $14.99 is way too high. I never got into WOW because I just felt like I would be throwing away money.

I realize there are things to maintain, but especially in today's economy, I feel like that's unrealistic.

For me, personally, I just bought a house, I'm getting married and have bills so my money would be better off spent on those life expenses.

I understand everyone is different, but I feel like companies are trying to do all they can to get your money.

With Elder Scrolls Online coming out, I feel like they might be shooting themselves in the foot with the monthly fee, or at least having the same standard high fee.

If they had to have a fee at all, I would say do maximum a $60 fee for one year maybe in addition to the cost of the game.

Main Point:

What are your thoughts? Are you for or against MMO subscription fees?

Will this effect your decision to buy games like Elder Scrolls Online in the future?

Since noone is forcing you to buy this subscribtion its not really robbery.

But i dont think 15$ is a high price and if you really have a house and wife i bet you spend more than that on junk during a week, a few coffee´s from starbucks, a movie and dinner, some McD or drinking

So of course this wont effect my decision even as a student 15$ is peanuts compared to the time and enjoyment i get out of the product. compared to drinking, smoking or eating unhealthy food.

We really watch our money. If we could avoid Starbucks, we do and just buy it ground for home. Most our food is at home and we avoid movie theaters because the cost of theaters is a bit up there. Fast food is another thing we try to avoid. Cook all our meals from scratch. Ends up being a lot cheaper. lol.

We make good money, but if we don't have to spend money we don't and save it for something more worthwhile or necessary.

I just feel like there are a lot of other game experiences out there that you will never have to spend that much money on and the future seems to be going the way of free to play.

It's almost the same concept, in my mind, as when AOL charged people to use internet on top of your ISP.

I'm not going to knock anyone's personal choices. If paying $15 a month works for you or anyone else, that's fine. Whether anyone can afford it or not or whether they want to pay for it or not, I don't think it is ethical nor is it practical for companies to be following this model anymore.

It's not about what one can afford or how much people are willing to spend — it's more about it not being right.

(Also, this isn't really super directed at you, lol. I respect your choice. I kind of am addressing the whole at the same time.)

#42 Posted by Assimilat0r (745 posts) -

@fatee said:

It's hard to convince oneself to pay $15 a month for an MMO that rarely gets updates and charges for expansions, when GW2 release a content patch every 2 weeks for free.

Thats invalid state, i am playing , used to play GW2, they just isnert some heavy crap events every 2 weaks, nothing else, there were for 15 months or so i am playing gw2, only few minor changes with content nothing else, So my opinion yes very good MMO's need subscription.