Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes and Rape

To know what I'm talking about let me include a link to Chico's Cassette Tape 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5118dawhc

Then let me give you a link to Nerd³'s video because I'm talking about his opinion also (Skip to the 17 minute mark in):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1HP-JiPWo

Good, that should pretty much bring you up to speed on the tone of the last game and what will be The Phantom Pain.

How to put this into words... What the hell Kojima. What the **** were you thinking when you wrote this. Because it's not badly written, it's not torture porn, it's not for titillation or excitement. It's clear to me that was important character development that shows the extent of the torment placed on Paz and Chico. It's shows how fucking far off the deep end the two have gone and why that's important. You put this completely to the side, IN THE REWARD SECTION, because if you put it in the main campaign, as a cutscene/flashback when talking to Chico, you would've gotten a fucking AO rating without a doubt.

Two Things.

A) When you write shit like this, you make the choice of two options that become available. Place it where it needs to be placed, in THE EXACT PLACE TO PUT IT. OR SCRAP IT!!!! It's okay to not put certain things in. You could've had it implied in a conversation. You could've put it as a cutscene. You've could've done SOMETHING better, but instead you put it in the WORSE POSSIBLE PLACE, you could put it.

B) Listen to the end. Here's the thing, I should be upset at the end part more than anything else of the entire tape if I were offended (Which I'm not offended at the material written, I'm offended at where they decided to put it.), but here's the thing, I'm not. Although, yes it's casual sex between a woman and child, and yes, that is beyond fucked to a level of fucked up that I can't begin to describe in words. The reason why I'm not calling the lynch mob on that shit is because of what I said at the beginning. The extent of the torment on the two of these people has been so severe that they are now supporting each other and caring for one another in a romantic way. THAT'S HOW FAR THIS SHIT HAS GONE, THAT'S HOW FAR THEIR PSYCHE HAS BEEN RUINED AND PLUNGED INTO COMPLETE SHAMBLES. It's gone so far, that Paz, a twenty something year old woman is now romantically involved with Chico, a thirteen year old boy...

That is FUCKED UP.

Part two and three of the tape, Paz's rape by Skull Face (Which by the fucking way, I should point out that I've NEVER played a Metal Gear game, but as far as I know, they've always been blockbusters of fun with popcorn and shit like that, and still are, with the exception of putting a bomb in Paz's vagina... YEAH, so what **** happened where it got this dark? I digress), and Chico's forced sex with Paz, there's not really much to talk about. Those parts of the tape can only summed up as fucked up and I couldn't get much discussion on them, EXCEPT FOR THIS. I say Chico's forced sex because I don't know exactly who's raping at the moment, that scares the shit out of me, but let me explain. Skull Face has Chico have sex with Paz. Paz kinda, sorta, gives him consent because she knows there's no way around this. So the person raping her would be Skull Face, but he's not doing the deed, that would be Chico. You know what, I don't fucking know, and someone's going to have to put on their detective hat and deduce specifically what crime's being committed there.

That's a lot of questions and a lot of talk to be put out there. I really want to know what everyone's opinion on this is, and yeah, I feel like I need to take a bath.

Kojima is a dirty old man. We suspected it since MGS1, strongly suspected it since MGS3 and knew it for a fact since Peace Walker. Nothing new under the sun. Gangrape and a vagina bombs are WTF moments to us, but for Japan? Eh, they're vanilla.

What are you? 15? Grow the F up. It's a media form. Kojima wrote it this way. Did you have a fit watching hostel and hostel II? How about Black Swan or the more recent The Wolf on Wall Street? Sex in any format--people accept it. Sex in videogames--folks throw a tantrum as if the world's going to end. Man, if Kojima would've put one little blurry as F screenshot of a threesome you would've probably go straight to Japan and burn Kojima's Productions whole building down. You remind me of gamers when they were throwing a tantrum just because Dead Island 2 was throwing in a pair of tits for their collectors edition.

Ok, I'm not understanding you. In point B you say you're not offended by the content. In point A you complain about where it should be. So you're complaining that something you're not upset about is not where you think it should be?

It sounds to me like you are, in fact, bothered by the content of the story, which you elaborated on in the majority of your post. If you're bothered by the characters' story, don't play the game. If you're not bothered by it, then where would you say is the "EXACT PLACE TO PUT IT"?

He doesn't want to say that he was offended but he was. That's why he threw a tantrum. If he was bothered by a "placement" he would complained about how developers locked away content until later in the game or in this case the "rewards" section. All he did was talk about the rape.

@cdragon_88: Yea, I know! I was just trying to nicely coerce the OP into clarifying that s/he was offended. :)

What I find funny is that people, not you TC, try to act like this is fucked up and pushing boundaries when we have moves like hostel, the human centipede second sequence, The Hills have eyes 2, all the wrong turn movies, and soooo many other films that i have watched and make me question what it means to be human and messed with my sanity.

Sadly I agree

People need to get the frak over themselves, Kojima wanted to show people the frak up side of humanity and the atrocities that happen during battle/war. If you can't handle that then go back to your sheltered life.

It's incredibly dark. And it is a weird thing to give as a "reward."

A user from MGSforums imo made a good point what's wrong with how the rape scene is implemented in GZ in a thread:

"The problem is, Kojima is sacrificing logic for ''ASK ME WHAT IT MEANS ASK ME WHAT IT MEANS!'' style, when it comes to this rape stuff. I mean, he wanted to get Chico to submit, but instead of just beating the hell out of him, I mean, he's a kid, how much can he take in terms of damage, as Nick said in one of those threads? he immediately jumps to attacking Paz just so he can set up his ''edgy rape'' scenes.

This taboo stuff is all meaningless if its more detrimental to the story than it is helpful. Look at TLoU, relatively speaking, that game isn't overtly taboo, there is implied pedophilia and rape attempt/s but that's about it, yet TLoU worked far more effectively than Ground Zeroes as a piece of dark fiction, because it wasn't bombarding you with taboos for the sake of it. Hell, that implied pedophilia was significantly more appalling in TLoU because it all makes sense and so, its startling."

I agree with this. Frankly, I've always thought that Kojima is perfect for the goofy slapstick humor stuff he's done in the past but I seriously don't think he has the writing skills to portray taboo subjects like rape in a tactful/tasteful manner.

I watched the two videos, and I'm confused- the woman was raped twice, but the end was not sex between the woman and the boy- it was the woman getting frisky with the boy and the boy shoving her away. How do you not get that?

As far as the gist of the topic, who gives a **** where it shows up? Either you object to the contentcontent or you don't ( I don't). To say you object to it, not because of what it is, but because it was labeled as a reward(which is something you get for accomplishing a task) is just asinine. How would it change your opinion if you found the tape in a cutscene rather than for completing some kind of side quest?

Kojima's writing is nothing but pure comedy, especially when he attempts to take himself seriously. It's a good thing games exist, because if they didn't and his life depended on his writing prowess, Hideo would be out on the corner begging for change. He couldn't write his way out of a paper bag. I find his games largely frustrating....if he could write as well as design, he'd be untouchable.

1 outta 2 gotta do.

@cdragon_88:

I am here and ready to answer:

I am not OFFENDED.

The locking away of content for players until finishing the game is fine. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT. I don't like it when gamemakers just give all the content, I like earning it. I didn't want to EARN a rape tape. But that's what I got in the reward section.

@cdragon_88:

I'm not against the scene being placed nor am I against the portrayal of rape in video games. I said placing it as a reward is bad, but the content itself wasn't. Not to mention, consensual sex and the exploration of sex in general is not just fine with me, but I wholeheartedly support it. RAPE on the other hand needs to be done and executed far better in media. PERIOD. Placing rape as an Easter egg is bad placement, no matter what. AND I asked secondly about what this means to the story, and what do you think about it. If I was truly offended, why the **** would I care what you think about it. The fact of the matter that you can't tell the difference between sex and rape shows you are a fucking idiot. Just thought I needed to point out your shitty logic.

Kojima is an increasingly hamfisted, self-indulgent, pandering director so I understand why you are bothered by his handling of a subject such as rape (offering a rape scene as a reward is pathetic), but honestly, your thread is just giving Kojima the controversy/publicity he clearly wanted the game to get.

@crispytigers: Calm down a bit, eh?

Someone tell me WHY it being an unlockable makes it inherently EEEEEVIL! Where the subject matter itself dies not. Seriously, I really need to know this.

Why is it so bad that it has to be unlocked by completing a side mission, but you'd be totally fine with it if you watched Snake pull it out of the Desk Drawer of Infinite Evil in a cutscene?

Murder is bad and we endorse it in video games...

@Gaming-Planet: So? I didn't say the content was bad, I said it was mishandled.

@El_Zo1212o: I'm not a Metal Gear fan, so I have no fucking idea what you're talking about...

I haven't played it yet, and I would rather not listen to the tapes till I play the game (though i already know what happens:P) But I agree the placement is odd, yet I almost feel like that i the only way Kojima was able to get a rape scene in a game. I feel like a cutscene would push it to AO territory. Is there a full on rape scene in a M rated game? I don't mean implied, but explicit like GZ?

I also feel the issue is the change of tone compared to previous MGS games. They got dark, yes, but I can't recall them being this edgy or dark. And they always swung back and evened out the mood.

IDK, I am okay with it, and I will see hows its handled when i play it.

@crispytigers: neither am I, but I watched the two videos and I get it now. Still don't understand the main point of, "it's not WHAT it is, but WHERE it is."

Kojima is a genius, and Im happy he gets the freedom to make games at his own pace and do whatever he wants, sure there are a few wtf moments in all of his games but in every crazy person theres a genius. accept it for what it is.

Wait wait wait, now somebody is calling it a rape SCENE? Is that what it is? A rape scene? Or is it an audio log? I'm really asking, because I thought and heard it was just an audio log. Either way wouldn't matter, as far as I'm concerned if movies and TV shows can depict such things then a video game should be able to without any question. That's beside the point though, is it a rape SCENE or is it an audio log of a rape taking place? Just wondering because theres a huge difference.

So the issue is with the idea of rape-content being treated like a nice little treat for the diligent player, which sort of undermines its impact (and cheapens its treatment). That's what I understood.

But on the other hand I've finished the game and didn't even realise such content existed. For it to come up in awkwardly in conversation during Ground Zeroes would have been strange and flow breaking. But I will definitely watch the characters body language more closely when I replay it to see if there are hints.

tl;dr...so this is a heavily adult themed game? sounds good to me.

I didn't see it as getting a rape scene, well audio log of one, as a reward I saw it as getting more storyline and context for the game as a reward. It doesn't glorify it at all but makes it a brutal and horrifying act which happens often by those in such a position of power meant to demean and break down those held as captives or prisoner. It made me cringe and feel sympathetic towards the characters which I'm sure was Kojima's intent.

The sexuality in the Metal Gear series has always been phallocentric and nascent... and while this latest example is nothing new, it does delve into some particularly dark territory even for Kojima. I replayed all the games, and Meryl joked about hiding the required key card in her hoo-hoo. It was creepy, and I'm glad my wife wasn't in the room at the time.

Another noteworthy creepy, and wholly unnecessary moment in Ground Zeroes occurs during one of Paz's journal entries. The bisexual character from Peace Walker, Dr Strangelove, has a lesbian encounter with Paz, who resists at first and then goes with it. It was merely a first base kind of encounter, but it was still creepy, and needlessly inserted for what one assumes is meant to titillate. I just write it off as Japanese cultural differences generally, but it remains an unfortunate aspect of one of my favorite game series. I wonder what sort of awkwardness Kojima will bring with the silent sniper lady in the Phantom Pain trailer.